***official 2024/25 women’s college bball thread*** paige gets her title and will soon be beat up and abused in the wnba (3 Viewers)

[TennesseeJed]

las vegas changed thier venue for the clark fever game and drew 20366 the most for a wnba game since 1999 it is mind bogglingly stupid that she isnt on team usa this is a chance to expand womens basketball worldwide and raise the stakes and salaries of everyone but some jealous aholes are keeping her down and thats just stupid take that to the bank brohans

I thought we were past this, but I guess everybody still wants to go there.

1. It's not a WNBA decision. As far as I can tell, game attendance in the WNBA is not a factor for the US Olympic committee.
2. She missed the Olympic trials.
3. No experience with USA Basketball since U19 in 2021.
4. Almost no international experience. Most players in the WNBA play in international leagues in the off-season to make extra money.
5. No experience with any of the veterans on the team.
6. They have 5 practices before the games, so experience is a pretty big deal.
7. I know nobody cares, but Team USA is loaded.

I must preface the next part by saying (again and again and again) that Clark is amazing. She's having an amazing rookie year and will have an amazing WNBA career. For a Seinfeld reference, I absolutely wear the ribbon.

8. Probably the only way Team USA loses is because of turnovers..........Want to know who leads the WNBA in turnovers by a massive margin?
Again, that's not a knock on her. She's a young guard with the ball in her hands a lot. There's going to be a lot of turnovers. But for Caitlin to be Caitlin, she has to be fast and loose with the ball. Entering new competition with people she's never played with before, that's going to lead to a lot of turnovers. On a team where you've got months and years to get on the same page, it's going to lead to dominance when it comes together. The Olympics do not provide that sort of timeline.

9. The other way they lose is because they don't play good enough defense. Caitlin is not a good defender yet. Pretty awful really. Which is to be expected from a rookie.
Cheryl Reeve is the coach and she preaches defense. Just look at what the Lynx are doing right now with a bunch of players most have never heard of.

Taurasi is also not a great defender at age 42. As I said in the other thread, she's obviously a legacy pick. Like it or not that happens. She provides a ton of international experience and she can shoot.

People can keep calling it jealousy or whatever, without any evidence, all they want, but there are plenty of other good reasons she's not on the team.

If team USA is relying on the 12th woman on the roster to win a game - something has already gone horribly wrong. It was wrong of Team USA not to take her - both for her exposure, and the team’s exposure. (I don’t think I saw anyone say the WNBA was responsible for picking the team - they probably would have added Clark …)

 

[pollardsvision]

las vegas changed thier venue for the clark fever game and drew 20366 the most for a wnba game since 1999 it is mind bogglingly stupid that she isnt on team usa this is a chance to expand womens basketball worldwide and raise the stakes and salaries of everyone but some jealous aholes are keeping her down and thats just stupid take that to the bank brohans

I thought we were past this, but I guess everybody still wants to go there.

1. It's not a WNBA decision. As far as I can tell, game attendance in the WNBA is not a factor for the US Olympic committee.
2. She missed the Olympic trials.
3. No experience with USA Basketball since U19 in 2021.
4. Almost no international experience. Most players in the WNBA play in international leagues in the off-season to make extra money.
5. No experience with any of the veterans on the team.
6. They have 5 practices before the games, so experience is a pretty big deal.
7. I know nobody cares, but Team USA is loaded.

I must preface the next part by saying (again and again and again) that Clark is amazing. She's having an amazing rookie year and will have an amazing WNBA career. For a Seinfeld reference, I absolutely wear the ribbon.

8. Probably the only way Team USA loses is because of turnovers..........Want to know who leads the WNBA in turnovers by a massive margin?
Again, that's not a knock on her. She's a young guard with the ball in her hands a lot. There's going to be a lot of turnovers. But for Caitlin to be Caitlin, she has to be fast and loose with the ball. Entering new competition with people she's never played with before, that's going to lead to a lot of turnovers. On a team where you've got months and years to get on the same page, it's going to lead to dominance when it comes together. The Olympics do not provide that sort of timeline.

9. The other way they lose is because they don't play good enough defense. Caitlin is not a good defender yet. Pretty awful really. Which is to be expected from a rookie.
Cheryl Reeve is the coach and she preaches defense. Just look at what the Lynx are doing right now with a bunch of players most have never heard of.

Taurasi is also not a great defender at age 42. As I said in the other thread, she's obviously a legacy pick. Like it or not that happens. She provides a ton of international experience and she can shoot.

People can keep calling it jealousy or whatever, without any evidence, all they want, but there are plenty of other good reasons she's not on the team.

If team USA is relying on the 12th woman on the roster to win a game - something has already gone horribly wrong. It was wrong of Team USA not to take her - both for her exposure, and the team’s exposure. (I don’t think I saw anyone say the WNBA was responsible for picking the team - they probably would have added Clark …)

Nobody has said it was the WNBA's call (or suggested it) since the old thread. But we're getting same old arguments, so I wanted to make sure.

Anyway, yeah for viewers and eyeballs, Clark always make sense.

I agree. Clark or player #12 is not necessary for Team USA to win.

Just pointing out the actual reasons. As opposed to "they are just jealous a-holes" as has been mentioned. By our beloved @SWC Which is very disappointing. He's a good man, and I expect more of him.

 

[pollardsvision]

Lynx lost a tough one last night, but more importantly, Napheesa left the game with a non-contact foot injury.

Still no update on the severity AFAIK, but if it's serious, it's horrible on so many levels. Phee is awesome and fun to watch, and obviously the Lynx would be lost without her. And she's supposed to fulfill her Olympic dreams here in a few weeks.

Hope it's not too bad, but non-contact injuries never seem to turn out well.

And the kids have some big tests coming up.

Sky visit the Storm tonight. My favorite veteran team and favorite young team face-off. I hope Ezi goes bonkers after her All-Star snub.

Fresh off the Aces, it doesn't get any easier for the Fever when the Liberty come to town tomorrow (1:00 on CBS). Sabrina is having a fantastic season, and it'll be fun to see her and Caitlin face-off now that Caitlin has gotten a little more accustomed to the league.

 

[pollardsvision]

What a night of upsets.

Angel (27-10) and Chennedy (33 points) at it again. Chennedy is 5'8" and the other team knows that she will not be attempting a 3-pointer. She still can't be stopped. Jordan Horston for Seattle is one of the best defenders in the league.
This league is full of dominant bigs, and this little squirt leads the league in points at the rim, by a wide margin.

Sparks knock off the Aces. Good for Hamby. She won a title with the Aces, but they shipped her out to town when she got pregnant. What a year she's having. Man, I hope she's got more years in her like this when Brink is back.

 

[pollardsvision]

And this game could not have started worse for Chennedy.

Halfway through the 1st quarter, she's got two quick fouls. Team down 14-4. She's only taken two shots, both of which were swatted into the stands by Ezi (who almost had a triple double with blocks). On the second block, Chennedy hits her head pretty hard on the floor.

From that moment on, she was unstoppable.

The fight in these kids is pretty awesome to watch.

Oh, and Angel went 2-2 from 3. Heaven help this league if Angel starts hitting 3's.

 

[jhib]

las vegas changed thier venue for the clark fever game and drew 20366 the most for a wnba game since 1999 it is mind bogglingly stupid that she isnt on team usa this is a chance to expand womens basketball worldwide and raise the stakes and salaries of everyone but some jealous aholes are keeping her down and thats just stupid take that to the bank brohans

I thought we were past this, but I guess everybody still wants to go there.

1. It's not a WNBA decision. As far as I can tell, game attendance in the WNBA is not a factor for the US Olympic committee.
2. She missed the Olympic trials.
3. No experience with USA Basketball since U19 in 2021.
4. Almost no international experience. Most players in the WNBA play in international leagues in the off-season to make extra money.
5. No experience with any of the veterans on the team.
6. They have 5 practices before the games, so experience is a pretty big deal.
7. I know nobody cares, but Team USA is loaded.

I must preface the next part by saying (again and again and again) that Clark is amazing. She's having an amazing rookie year and will have an amazing WNBA career. For a Seinfeld reference, I absolutely wear the ribbon.

8. Probably the only way Team USA loses is because of turnovers..........Want to know who leads the WNBA in turnovers by a massive margin?
Again, that's not a knock on her. She's a young guard with the ball in her hands a lot. There's going to be a lot of turnovers. But for Caitlin to be Caitlin, she has to be fast and loose with the ball. Entering new competition with people she's never played with before, that's going to lead to a lot of turnovers. On a team where you've got months and years to get on the same page, it's going to lead to dominance when it comes together. The Olympics do not provide that sort of timeline.

9. The other way they lose is because they don't play good enough defense. Caitlin is not a good defender yet. Pretty awful really. Which is to be expected from a rookie.
Cheryl Reeve is the coach and she preaches defense. Just look at what the Lynx are doing right now with a bunch of players most have never heard of.

Taurasi is also not a great defender at age 42. As I said in the other thread, she's obviously a legacy pick. Like it or not that happens. She provides a ton of international experience and she can shoot.

People can keep calling it jealousy or whatever, without any evidence, all they want, but there are plenty of other good reasons she's not on the team.

If team USA is relying on the 12th woman on the roster to win a game - something has already gone horribly wrong. It was wrong of Team USA not to take her - both for her exposure, and the team’s exposure. (I don’t think I saw anyone say the WNBA was responsible for picking the team - they probably would have added Clark …)

Nobody has said it was the WNBA's call (or suggested it) since the old thread. But we're getting same old arguments, so I wanted to make sure.

Anyway, yeah for viewers and eyeballs, Clark always make sense.

I agree. Clark or player #12 is not necessary for Team USA to win.

Just pointing out the actual reasons. As opposed to "they are just jealous a-holes" as has been mentioned. By our beloved @SWC Which is very disappointing. He's a good man, and I expect more of him.

I know it's a different sport and all, but after seeing Athing Mu trip in one race in the 800 trials and therefore miss the Olympics because of the USA rules, its hard for me to get too up in arms about someone else not getting chosen even though they're popular.

 

[belljr]

I watched 18 seconds of wnba today waiting for the golf broadcast....

 

[TennesseeJed]

waiting for @pollardsvision to post a recap of the first triple-double by a WNBA rookie.

 

[pollardsvision]

waiting for @pollardsvision to post a recap of the first triple-double by a WNBA rookie.

Just got home, so I haven't watched yet. Saw the results. That's awesome!

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Nice comeback win for the Fever.

 

[pollardsvision]

And it'll definitely be fun to see how they held the Liberty under 80 points.

The Fever offense has been rolling most of the season (as you'd expect on a team loaded with All-Stars ), but the defense has been a problem much of the season. Keeping the Liberty under 80 ain't no joke.

 

[TennesseeJed]

Caitlin Clark reached 350 points and 150 assists in her 22nd career game. That's the fastest mark by any player to start a season in WNBA history, regardless of years in the league.

2024 Caitlin Clark	22
2018 Skylar Diggins-Smith	23
2023 Chelsea Gray	24
2022 Sabrina Ionescu	24
2023 Alyssa Thomas	25
2014 Diana Taurasi	25
2002 Sue Bird	25

 

[pollardsvision]

Aari McDonald scored a career high 23 in the Sparks win over the Aces. Asked how she did it, she wasted no time trashing Kelsey Plum saying she doesn't want to play on the defensive end
It's hilarious on it's own, but watch Rickea Jackson on the left. Her reactions are priceless.

Hamby, after the game, too never minces words. She absolutely hates the Aces

One of the things I love about this league. They've been operating without anybody paying attention for so long, they haven't become a league of PC corporate speak yet.

 

[pollardsvision]

Caitlin Clark reached 350 points and 150 assists in her 22nd career game. That's the fastest mark by any player to start a season in WNBA history, regardless of years in the league.

2024 Caitlin Clark	22
2018 Skylar Diggins-Smith	23
2023 Chelsea Gray	24
2022 Sabrina Ionescu	24
2023 Alyssa Thomas	25
2014 Diana Taurasi	25
2002 Sue Bird	25

Fever post game interview was a lot of fun

So great to see. The journey of this season has been a wild one. When you think back to May and just how absolutely stressed out this team seemed. For a bit, I thought it would be a great season if Clark and Boston could just get through the season with their love of basketball intact.

Obviously, things are quite different now.

That's the beauty of sports.

 

[Snotbubbles]

las vegas changed thier venue for the clark fever game and drew 20366 the most for a wnba game since 1999 it is mind bogglingly stupid that she isnt on team usa this is a chance to expand womens basketball worldwide and raise the stakes and salaries of everyone but some jealous aholes are keeping her down and thats just stupid take that to the bank brohans

I thought we were past this, but I guess everybody still wants to go there.

1. It's not a WNBA decision. As far as I can tell, game attendance in the WNBA is not a factor for the US Olympic committee.
2. She missed the Olympic trials.
3. No experience with USA Basketball since U19 in 2021.
4. Almost no international experience. Most players in the WNBA play in international leagues in the off-season to make extra money.
5. No experience with any of the veterans on the team.
6. They have 5 practices before the games, so experience is a pretty big deal.
7. I know nobody cares, but Team USA is loaded.

I must preface the next part by saying (again and again and again) that Clark is amazing. She's having an amazing rookie year and will have an amazing WNBA career. For a Seinfeld reference, I absolutely wear the ribbon.

8. Probably the only way Team USA loses is because of turnovers..........Want to know who leads the WNBA in turnovers by a massive margin?
Again, that's not a knock on her. She's a young guard with the ball in her hands a lot. There's going to be a lot of turnovers. But for Caitlin to be Caitlin, she has to be fast and loose with the ball. Entering new competition with people she's never played with before, that's going to lead to a lot of turnovers. On a team where you've got months and years to get on the same page, it's going to lead to dominance when it comes together. The Olympics do not provide that sort of timeline.

9. The other way they lose is because they don't play good enough defense. Caitlin is not a good defender yet. Pretty awful really. Which is to be expected from a rookie.
Cheryl Reeve is the coach and she preaches defense. Just look at what the Lynx are doing right now with a bunch of players most have never heard of.

Taurasi is also not a great defender at age 42. As I said in the other thread, she's obviously a legacy pick. Like it or not that happens. She provides a ton of international experience and she can shoot.

People can keep calling it jealousy or whatever, without any evidence, all they want, but there are plenty of other good reasons she's not on the team.

If team USA is relying on the 12th woman on the roster to win a game - something has already gone horribly wrong. It was wrong of Team USA not to take her - both for her exposure, and the team’s exposure. (I don’t think I saw anyone say the WNBA was responsible for picking the team - they probably would have added Clark …)

I think we've been through this before, First, on the selection committee, is Bethany Donaphin (Head of League Operations, WNBA) and Jennifer Rizzotti (President, Connecticut Suns). So the WNBA does have involvement in the selection. Second, Team USA scheduled their training camp during the NCAA tournament. What an absolutely terrible decision. Third, there will be 3 or 4 players who will see no playing time in any meaningful minutes so having Clark as the 12th player on the bench will not affect the product on the court in any way shape of form. What Clark would bring for exposure would be worth it to have one of those skilled cheerleaders stay home. Fourth, Team USA needs to start incorporating the next generation of stars into their program. Reese and Clark should be end of the bench players. Finally, here is the mission statement for USA Basketball:

"As the governing body for basketball in the United States, USA Basketball is a worldwide leader in the sport through competitive excellence in international competition and by promoting, growing and elevating the game at all levels while ensuring that athletes and other participants compete and develop in a safe, inclusive and welcoming environment. "

I highlighted the portion of their mission that they are woefully disregarding by not having Clark on the roster.

Women's basketball has been an afterthought for decades. Now they have marketing lottery ticket and they don't want to cash it in. This is why they will never be mainstream, they have decision makers making poor decisions. Maybe the Clark hype will still be in full swing in 2028, I wouldn't bet on it, but it's possible.

 

[pollardsvision]

las vegas changed thier venue for the clark fever game and drew 20366 the most for a wnba game since 1999 it is mind bogglingly stupid that she isnt on team usa this is a chance to expand womens basketball worldwide and raise the stakes and salaries of everyone but some jealous aholes are keeping her down and thats just stupid take that to the bank brohans

I thought we were past this, but I guess everybody still wants to go there.

1. It's not a WNBA decision. As far as I can tell, game attendance in the WNBA is not a factor for the US Olympic committee.
2. She missed the Olympic trials.
3. No experience with USA Basketball since U19 in 2021.
4. Almost no international experience. Most players in the WNBA play in international leagues in the off-season to make extra money.
5. No experience with any of the veterans on the team.
6. They have 5 practices before the games, so experience is a pretty big deal.
7. I know nobody cares, but Team USA is loaded.

I must preface the next part by saying (again and again and again) that Clark is amazing. She's having an amazing rookie year and will have an amazing WNBA career. For a Seinfeld reference, I absolutely wear the ribbon.

8. Probably the only way Team USA loses is because of turnovers..........Want to know who leads the WNBA in turnovers by a massive margin?
Again, that's not a knock on her. She's a young guard with the ball in her hands a lot. There's going to be a lot of turnovers. But for Caitlin to be Caitlin, she has to be fast and loose with the ball. Entering new competition with people she's never played with before, that's going to lead to a lot of turnovers. On a team where you've got months and years to get on the same page, it's going to lead to dominance when it comes together. The Olympics do not provide that sort of timeline.

9. The other way they lose is because they don't play good enough defense. Caitlin is not a good defender yet. Pretty awful really. Which is to be expected from a rookie.
Cheryl Reeve is the coach and she preaches defense. Just look at what the Lynx are doing right now with a bunch of players most have never heard of.

Taurasi is also not a great defender at age 42. As I said in the other thread, she's obviously a legacy pick. Like it or not that happens. She provides a ton of international experience and she can shoot.

People can keep calling it jealousy or whatever, without any evidence, all they want, but there are plenty of other good reasons she's not on the team.

If team USA is relying on the 12th woman on the roster to win a game - something has already gone horribly wrong. It was wrong of Team USA not to take her - both for her exposure, and the team’s exposure. (I don’t think I saw anyone say the WNBA was responsible for picking the team - they probably would have added Clark …)

I think we've been through this before, First, on the selection committee, is Bethany Donaphin (Head of League Operations, WNBA) and Jennifer Rizzotti (President, Connecticut Suns). So the WNBA does have involvement in the selection. Second, Team USA scheduled their training camp during the NCAA tournament. What an absolutely terrible decision. Third, there will be 3 or 4 players who will see no playing time in any meaningful minutes so having Clark as the 12th player on the bench will not affect the product on the court in any way shape of form. What Clark would bring for exposure would be worth it to have one of those skilled cheerleaders stay home. Fourth, Team USA needs to start incorporating the next generation of stars into their program. Reese and Clark should be end of the bench players. Finally, here is the mission statement for USA Basketball:

"As the governing body for basketball in the United States, USA Basketball is a worldwide leader in the sport through competitive excellence in international competition and by promoting, growing and elevating the game at all levels while ensuring that athletes and other participants compete and develop in a safe, inclusive and welcoming environment. "

I highlighted the portion of their mission that they are woefully diCsregarding by not having Clark on the roster.

Women's basketball has been an afterthought for decades. Now they have marketing lottery ticket and they don't want to cash it in. This is why they will never be mainstream, they have decision makers making poor decisions. Maybe the Clark hype will still be in full swing in 2028, I wouldn't bet on it, but it's possible.

Agreed to most of that.

Part of USA Basketball's mission is growing/promoting the game, and that would be a good argument for Clark on the team. And certainly agree about needing some youth.
They had some tough decisions to make and went another way.

I definitely agree that I wouldn't bet on this momentum carrying until 2028.
I hope it does, but we all know it's unlikely.

I certainly don't think 3 weeks in Paris will determine whether or not anybody gives a crap about the WNBA/Women's basketball in 2028.

Why women's basketball has been and (likely) will remain an afterthought is an interesting discussion, and I have no idea why.

The WNBA is not perfect, but I'm unaware of what decisions the WNBA has made to have stifled their growth. The NBA has a big ownership stake in the WNBA and it's teams. They basically share an office, and the NBA literally negotiates the rights deals for the WNBA (and then gives them their cut).

If the WNBA has been woefully mismanaged all these years and somebody else has better ideas, the NBA is right there to consult if need be.

Everybody keeps pointing to the only women's basketball decision they've ever heard to say they make poor decisions.
But on capitalizing on the Caitlin momentum, the WNBA and the teams seem to have done everything they can and that you'd expect.

Nearly all her games put on national TV immediately. Most of her big games on Sunday afternoon. Many of her games moved to larger arenas for the bigger crowds.
The WNBA is making sure people can get eyeballs on Caitlin. People will make their decision from there.
Where are all the WNBA's poor decisions?

The obvious reason nobody cares about the WNBA and probably won't going forward is that most aren't that interested in women's sports (outside of a couple of weeks every 4 years and then immediately back to not caring).
NWSL has had success, but I doubt anybody would call them mainstream. Maybe tennis has gotten there at times, but it doesn't seem like they get there regularly without the WIlliams sisters or supermodels.

It seems like the next person that figures out how to make a women's league mainstream will be the first.

But maybe the WNBA gets there. The product is fantastic.

 

[pollardsvision]

Actually, there was a questionable decision........starting Caitlin off with 11 games in 20 days.
But if that was a bad decision, it was in the name of putting Caitlin front of eyeballs early.

And the Olympic decision, while not up to the WNBA, certainly does a couple of things that could be great for the WNBA.

The All-Star game, of course, which should now get really good ratings.

The Fever (and Sky) both getting a month off to rest and practice while players on all the top teams are wearing themselves out in Paris?

Cailtin riding the pine for a couple weeks in Paris may or may not do the WNBA good, but I can guarantee what would do the WNBA some good.......a Fever or Sky playoff run!

 

[TennesseeJed]

Not that I think it excuses the lack of including Clark - but when they had to make the choice - I think most "experts" felt like the only thing Clark brought to the table was hype.

I don't think they expected her maturity, nor her all-around game to be on par with any of the Olympians - so it was easy to justify keeping her out for veterans who had proven themselves.

I think, if they had to do it all over - including Clark and Reece would be no-brainers. Both have risen to the occasion, and shown they belong - talent-wise - with the best in the league. They lack experience - but this is the kind of tournament that you use to bed in the next generation of players at the end of the bench.

I suspect that most people saw Clark as a "scorer" who would struggle in the WNBA - but she is really showing that she understands the game, and how to find her teammates, and also to fight for boards from the guard position. As Indiana has had time to gel, I think her teammates are really appreciating the effort she brings - not just the hype, but the blood sweat and tears that they all shed.

 

[pollardsvision]

Not that I think it excuses the lack of including Clark - but when they had to make the choice - I think most "experts" felt like the only thing Clark brought to the table was hype.

I don't think they expected her maturity, nor her all-around game to be on par with any of the Olympians - so it was easy to justify keeping her out for veterans who had proven themselves.

I think, if they had to do it all over - including Clark and Reece would be no-brainers. Both have risen to the occasion, and shown they belong - talent-wise - with the best in the league. They lack experience - but this is the kind of tournament that you use to bed in the next generation of players at the end of the bench.

I suspect that most people saw Clark as a "scorer" who would struggle in the WNBA - but she is really showing that she understands the game, and how to find her teammates, and also to fight for boards from the guard position. As Indiana has had time to gel, I think her teammates are really appreciating the effort she brings - not just the hype, but the blood sweat and tears that they all shed.

I don't remember exactly, but it seems like when the team was announced, Clark was towards the end of that 11 in 20 stretch where she was showing flashes, but it was tough rookie sledding. She's gotten much better since that decision.
Not that I have any idea how much that mattered at the time.

And I love the bolded. There was a lot of talk early for the Fever about their chemistry. Did they even like each other, did they have each other's back?

Some of that stuff just can only happen after you do battle with one another and see what each other is made of.
And the Fever had some chemistry obstacles early on that I'm not sure many teams in any sport have had to deal with.

So great to see it come together for them.

 

[bigbottom]

las vegas changed thier venue for the clark fever game and drew 20366 the most for a wnba game since 1999 it is mind bogglingly stupid that she isnt on team usa this is a chance to expand womens basketball worldwide and raise the stakes and salaries of everyone but some jealous aholes are keeping her down and thats just stupid take that to the bank brohans

I thought we were past this, but I guess everybody still wants to go there.

1. It's not a WNBA decision. As far as I can tell, game attendance in the WNBA is not a factor for the US Olympic committee.
2. She missed the Olympic trials.
3. No experience with USA Basketball since U19 in 2021.
4. Almost no international experience. Most players in the WNBA play in international leagues in the off-season to make extra money.
5. No experience with any of the veterans on the team.
6. They have 5 practices before the games, so experience is a pretty big deal.
7. I know nobody cares, but Team USA is loaded.

I must preface the next part by saying (again and again and again) that Clark is amazing. She's having an amazing rookie year and will have an amazing WNBA career. For a Seinfeld reference, I absolutely wear the ribbon.

8. Probably the only way Team USA loses is because of turnovers..........Want to know who leads the WNBA in turnovers by a massive margin?
Again, that's not a knock on her. She's a young guard with the ball in her hands a lot. There's going to be a lot of turnovers. But for Caitlin to be Caitlin, she has to be fast and loose with the ball. Entering new competition with people she's never played with before, that's going to lead to a lot of turnovers. On a team where you've got months and years to get on the same page, it's going to lead to dominance when it comes together. The Olympics do not provide that sort of timeline.

9. The other way they lose is because they don't play good enough defense. Caitlin is not a good defender yet. Pretty awful really. Which is to be expected from a rookie.
Cheryl Reeve is the coach and she preaches defense. Just look at what the Lynx are doing right now with a bunch of players most have never heard of.

Taurasi is also not a great defender at age 42. As I said in the other thread, she's obviously a legacy pick. Like it or not that happens. She provides a ton of international experience and she can shoot.

People can keep calling it jealousy or whatever, without any evidence, all they want, but there are plenty of other good reasons she's not on the team.

If team USA is relying on the 12th woman on the roster to win a game - something has already gone horribly wrong. It was wrong of Team USA not to take her - both for her exposure, and the team’s exposure. (I don’t think I saw anyone say the WNBA was responsible for picking the team - they probably would have added Clark …)

I think we've been through this before, First, on the selection committee, is Bethany Donaphin (Head of League Operations, WNBA) and Jennifer Rizzotti (President, Connecticut Suns). So the WNBA does have involvement in the selection. Second, Team USA scheduled their training camp during the NCAA tournament. What an absolutely terrible decision. Third, there will be 3 or 4 players who will see no playing time in any meaningful minutes so having Clark as the 12th player on the bench will not affect the product on the court in any way shape of form. What Clark would bring for exposure would be worth it to have one of those skilled cheerleaders stay home. Fourth, Team USA needs to start incorporating the next generation of stars into their program. Reese and Clark should be end of the bench players. Finally, here is the mission statement for USA Basketball:

"As the governing body for basketball in the United States, USA Basketball is a worldwide leader in the sport through competitive excellence in international competition and by promoting, growing and elevating the game at all levels while ensuring that athletes and other participants compete and develop in a safe, inclusive and welcoming environment. "

I highlighted the portion of their mission that they are woefully disregarding by not having Clark on the roster.

Women's basketball has been an afterthought for decades. Now they have marketing lottery ticket and they don't want to cash it in. This is why they will never be mainstream, they have decision makers making poor decisions. Maybe the Clark hype will still be in full swing in 2028, I wouldn't bet on it, but it's possible.

I generally agree that they should have put Clark on the Olympic squad, just as they did Taurasi when she was a big name rookie. But I think there would have been a ton of noise if Clark was put on the squad but then didn’t see the floor. If the premise is that more eyeballs would have tuned in to see Clark play, wouldn’t many/most of those same eyeballs be disappointed or angry when she doesn’t? I think they’d almost have to give her signigicant PT if they put her on the team.

 

[pollardsvision]

And on the Olympics, there is still zero word about the severity of Phee's foot injury. Hurt on Thursday, didn't play Saturday.
d
No news is not abnormal for the WNBA. The NFL gets more money from gambling interests than the GDP of most countries, so they enforce injury transparency as much as they can.

That is not the case for the WNBA. Chelsea Gray is a 3 time Champion, Finals MVP, Olympian. She got hurt during the Finals in October, and didn't return until late June. The nature of her injury was never all that clear.
WNBA teams do this in a way Belichick and Popovich could only dream of getting away with.

Anyway, we have no idea what's going on with Phee's foot, and the Lynx are certainly not going to be forthcoming with it.

There's a chance Team USA is going to need another big.
If so, it'll be interesting to see who that would be. Nneka would make some sense with her Team USA experience, but she'd probably tell them to eff off after 12 years of snubs. Boston has some USA Basketball experience, but she's not much like Phee.

I don't know if Angel has much USA Basketball experience, but she'd be a good choice, if not for the backlash it would create.

Hamby would be perfect, but I'm not sure if they'd take a 3x3 fill-in and make them a 5x5 fill-in within days. And of course, Hamby hates the Aces who make up 1/3rd of the Olympic roster.

It seems like a decent shot Team USA is going to need another big and I have no idea who it would be.

 

[pollardsvision]

Aces in a dogfight with the Wings.

Just to give an idea of what we're looking at here.
Aces were 34-6 last year. 34 and 6.
12-7 this year, coming off a loss to the Sparks, who are the odds on favorite to have the worst record in the league. If they aren't, the Wings or Mystics will be.

They have to be dominant in this stretch against the bottom teams, because 4 of their 5 starters are heading to the Olympics. When they get back, it will be the schedule from hell.
They are up against it, and in the middle of their only "breather" until the Playoffs. The "breather" isn't going as planned.

They are trying for the first 3-Peat in a quarter century. If they get it, it will be well earned.

 

[pollardsvision]

GB Clark and Reese.
But we're a long way from knowing the best rookie in this class.

Cardoso lost 1 game in college. She started playing basketball about 30 months ago. She lost 1 game while Clark, Reese, and Brink were there.

She was hurt to start the year, and again, she barely knows basketball.

She's shutting the Storm down dominating on both ends of the floor. And she still doesn't even know what that means.


.

 

[scoobus]

GB Clark and Reese.
But we're a long way from knowing the best rookie in this class.

Cardoso lost 1 game in college. She started playing basketball about 30 months ago. She lost 1 game while Clark, Reese, and Brink were there.

She was hurt to start the year, and again, she barely knows basketball.

She's shutting the Storm down dominating on both ends of the floor. And she still doesn't even know what that means.


.

Wat?

 

[pollardsvision]

GB Clark and Reese.
But we're a long way from knowing the best rookie in this class.

Cardoso lost 1 game in college. She started playing basketball about 30 months ago. She lost 1 game while Clark, Reese, and Brink were there.

She was hurt to start the year, and again, she barely knows basketball.

She's shutting the Storm down dominating on both ends of the floor. And she still doesn't even know what that means.


.

Wat?

Welcome, buddy.
Yeah, I exaggerated. Sorry for that. She hasn't been here long, and barely knows the language.

But she's got more titles than all these gringos, and she's still learning how all of this works.

 

[scoobus]

GB Clark and Reese.
But we're a long way from knowing the best rookie in this class.

Cardoso lost 1 game in college. She started playing basketball about 30 months ago. She lost 1 game while Clark, Reese, and Brink were there.

She was hurt to start the year, and again, she barely knows basketball.

She's shutting the Storm down dominating on both ends of the floor. And she still doesn't even know what that means.


.

Wat?

Welcome, buddy.
Yeah, I exaggerated. Sorry for that. She hasn't been here long, and barely knows the language.

But she's got more titles than all these gringos, and she's still learning how all of this works.

She played for 4 years in college, and was a 5-star recruit when she went to Syracuse meaning she obviously played in high school as well.

I'm not sure why you're implying she's new to basketball.

 

[pollardsvision]

GB Clark and Reese.
But we're a long way from knowing the best rookie in this class.

Cardoso lost 1 game in college. She started playing basketball about 30 months ago. She lost 1 game while Clark, Reese, and Brink were there.

She was hurt to start the year, and again, she barely knows basketball.

She's shutting the Storm down dominating on both ends of the floor. And she still doesn't even know what that means.


.

Wat?

Welcome, buddy.
Yeah, I exaggerated. Sorry for that. She hasn't been here long, and barely knows the language.

But she's got more titles than all these gringos, and she's still learning how all of this works.

She played for 4 years in college, and was a 5-star recruit when she went to Syracuse meaning she obviously played in high school as well.

I'm not sure why you're implying she's new to basketball.

Thank you, my man.
I'd heard she came over in HS, and didn't know much else.

I'm an American male. I didn't previously pay attention to this ****!

Meant she's newer to basketball than most of the players that watched her win a title last year.

I'm an idiot, as you might have gathered.

 

[pollardsvision]

Storm got out and did what a veteran team does.
Then Chicago got on a 14-3 run.

Seattle seems to be doing the "nah, kids, we're going to win this" routine.

 

[pollardsvision]

This game was so much closer than it seemed.

They were going blow for blow.

Storm grinding it out. Ezi doing Ezi things. Then Skylar hit a dagger. Then Nneka hit the other dagger. And it was over.

 

[pollardsvision]

Sue Bird on Chennedy Carter in 2020 "if she ever gets her **** together"

4-time WNBA Champ answering without hesitation on who's the best player in that draft. "You can't guard her"

 

[pollardsvision]

Phee dealing with a plantar fasciitis flare up.
W and Lynx not saying much. I assume because they want to sell tickets to next Sunday's game against the Fever that Phee is obviously not playing in.

Such a tricky injury that mostly just needs rest. Phee pretty much has to decide whether she wants a gold medal or a shot at a WNBA title more.
Oddly enough, her badass Lynx coach is also the Team USA coach.

In a league where people are making real money*, it would seem like an easy choice to take the blessing of a month off and go win a title. But for Phee and Reeve making less than your local plumber*, I have a feeling that winning a gold medal might end up being the priority.

*Certainly not knocking your local plumber. I make way less than half of what your local plumber makes.

 

[pollardsvision]

Miss (Rickea) Jackson with a big game last night against the player that I think she might become one day (Copper. Finals MVP, and 3rd leading scorer this year.

Clark and Reese are doing some special things this year, but Rickea has the look of somebody that will do some special things too. The Brink injury is devastating for her and the Sparks, but in addition to all of that, it increases the degree of difficulty for Rickea's rookie season. She's a 3 and that's where she needs to be. Without Brink, the Sparks need Rickea to put in a lot of minutes at the 4. They just don't have the bigs outside of Hamby.

She's playing 2 positions in an already tough rookie season. But in the rare moments that she just gets to do her thing, she does it really well.

 

[Acrobat7]

Just saw Clark‘s stat line of 29/5/13/5/3 in a losing effort. Someone draft/trade that woman some help!

 

[pollardsvision]

Just saw Clark‘s stat line of 29/5/13/5/3 in a losing effort. Someone draft/trade that woman some help!

I couldn't see the game because for some reason it's blacked out on my League Pass even though the game was in Indiana and I'm in Virginia.

She definitely could use some help, though she is playing with 2 other All-Stars. They are a fantastic offensive team.

But I agree, they are going to need to put some defensive stoppers around Catilin at some point. Kelsey is a fantastic scorer, but it's hard to win when you don't have a guard/wing that's a good defender.

I see Atkins and pretty much all the guards/wings had a nice game for the Mystics.

Caitlin definitely seems like the female Curry. She needs her Klay and Draymond.

No shade on Caitlin. It's very rare for an offensive dynamo guard to be a good defender or even asked to be. The list seems to be MJ and Kobe. Outside of that, they need help and you need to build the right team around them.

 

[pollardsvision]

Sky with a nice win over the Dream. Whoever knows what to make of the Dream. Solid team with solid vets. They will be in most games, but have no identity.

Sky definitely seem to be trying to working on their existential problem. They have 3 great young players, and none of them are 3-point threats.

So, you got Angel jacking up 18-footers, Chennedy shooting more 3's. Not the greatest plan for now, but they have to do it. Atlanta was schooling them early by just packing the paint.

Chennedy is a dynamo in the paint, and you've got the young twin towers. They've got to find a way to clear the paint out a little. They figured it out enough to win today, but it's certainly a long-term problem.

They keep getting just enough shooting to work it out. Mabrey hit some. She's good, but she needs to be so much more. Chicago traded a massive haul to get her. But they are going to be a problem anytime they can get any outside shooting at all.

 

[Acrobat7]

Just saw Clark‘s stat line of 29/5/13/5/3 in a losing effort. Someone draft/trade that woman some help!

I couldn't see the game because for some reason it's blacked out on my League Pass even though the game was in Indiana and I'm in Virginia.

She definitely could use some help, though she is playing with 2 other All-Stars. They are a fantastic offensive team.

But I agree, they are going to need to put some defensive stoppers around Catilin at some point. Kelsey is a fantastic scorer, but it's hard to win when you don't have a guard/wing that's a good defender.

I see Atkins and pretty much all the guards/wings had a nice game for the Mystics.

Caitlin definitely seems like the female Curry. She needs her Klay and Draymond.

No shade on Caitlin. It's very rare for an offensive dynamo guard to be a good defender or even asked to be. The list seems to be MJ and Kobe. Outside of that, they need help and you need to build the right team around them.

She is handing out crazy assist numbers for a rookie. If she averages 25/6/10 she doesn’t need to play defense in my book.

 

[pollardsvision]

Just saw Clark‘s stat line of 29/5/13/5/3 in a losing effort. Someone draft/trade that woman some help!

I couldn't see the game because for some reason it's blacked out on my League Pass even though the game was in Indiana and I'm in Virginia.

She definitely could use some help, though she is playing with 2 other All-Stars. They are a fantastic offensive team.

But I agree, they are going to need to put some defensive stoppers around Catilin at some point. Kelsey is a fantastic scorer, but it's hard to win when you don't have a guard/wing that's a good defender.

I see Atkins and pretty much all the guards/wings had a nice game for the Mystics.

Caitlin definitely seems like the female Curry. She needs her Klay and Draymond.

No shade on Caitlin. It's very rare for an offensive dynamo guard to be a good defender or even asked to be. The list seems to be MJ and Kobe. Outside of that, they need help and you need to build the right team around them.

She is handing out crazy assist numbers for a rookie. If she averages 25/6/10 she doesn’t need to play defense in my book.

I agree.

 

[pollardsvision]

And I feel much better about this board.

Back when Harden and Westbrook were changing the game in a way Jordan and Kobe just couldn't understand, it seemed like this board was just a bunch of old farts that couldn't understand how times had changed.

Good to see this board has fallen in line with Gen whatever these kids are nowadays.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Just saw Clark‘s stat line of 29/5/13/5/3 in a losing effort. Someone draft/trade that woman some help!

I’m driving down to Indy with my son on Friday to see the Fever vs Phoenix. We got decent seats and are making a road trip weekend out of it. He’s super excited to see Caitlin Clark play, and that makes me both happy and proud.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Just saw Clark‘s stat line of 29/5/13/5/3 in a losing effort. Someone draft/trade that woman some help!

She is the help they drafted.

 

[pollardsvision]

While Taurasi is about to play in her 6th Olympic games, Lauren Jackson is about to play in her 5th.

Just listened to Jackson on a podcast, and she is fascinating. Her first Olympics were in 2000. Her last until this year was freaking 2012. She was the first pick in the WNBA draft in 2001. One of only 3 players to win 3 WNBA MVPs (until A'ja is the 4th this year). Led Australia to all those silver's and bronze's. Pretty much the most dominant basketball player in the world from about 2004-2010.

Last played in the WNBA in 2012. Retired from basketball altogether in 2016. Tons of injuries, and then tearing her Achilles. Had 2 kids, and had a hell of fight to get back into shape.

Decided to start playing again in Australia in 2022. The interview was wild because it's so weird to hear someone that was the best basketball player in the world for the better part of a decade talk about her confidence being completely shattered. This could only happen with a woman, IMO. Us men are born thinking we're great, and never stop believing it no matter the evidence.

So she got healthy and got back out there. Showed enough that Sandy Brondello (Liberty and Aussie coach) convinced her to got to the Aussie Olympic trials.

So, she's 43 now. First played in the Olympics at age 18 in 2000 (damn near pulled off the upset against the USA). Last played in the Olympics in 2012.

 

[pollardsvision]

We'll see how it goes, but Chicago is taking it to the Liberty in the early going.

As with every team, they just don't know what to do with Chennedy Carter.

Chicago on the road in a back-to-back too. And they looked tired yesterday.
I figured the Liberty would clobber them tonight.

I would imagine the Liberty are going to get it together and pull this thing out.

But these Chicago kids ain't scared and DGAF.

 

[pollardsvision]

And just like that, here the Liberty go. 9-0 run.

 

[pollardsvision]

Cardoso kept Chicago in this when it looked like Liberty were about to blow the kids off the court.

 

[pollardsvision]

Oh ####. Reese limping to the locker room.

 

[Acrobat7]

At what point do we believe that Chicago is only playing to keep Reese's double/double streak alive? 10/10 with a FG percentage of 29%...

 

[Ghost Rider]

At what point do we believe that Chicago is only playing to keep Reese's double/double streak alive? 10/10 with a FG percentage of 29%...

And don't forget the game earlier this week where they were up like 7 with under 10 seconds and she was asking for the ball so she could draw a foul and get to the line to get to 10 points, when every other team just dribbles out the clock. Stat padding for a pointless streak, really.

 

[pollardsvision]

At what point do we believe that Chicago is only playing to keep Reese's double/double streak alive? 10/10 with a FG percentage of 29%...

It would probably be good for her if that streak ended soon.
She hasn't been as good the last couple of games and seems to be getting tired. Although, last night was set up to be a dud. 4th game in 7 days, and a back-to-back.

Not to play psychologist, but it seems like a lot of her success this season has been understanding the offensive game is a work in progress (coming along pretty well) and just mainly focusing on defense and rebounding, letting the offense come as it does.
The streak is fine, but double-doubles will come to her naturally. Trying to keep a streak alive doesn't seem to be good for her.

I assume it'll come to an end either against the Liberty or Aces, and then she's got the Olympic break, which will be so awesome for both the Sky and the Fever.

 

[pollardsvision]

And I know everyone just has their TV dial on ION on Friday nights anyway, but for anybody that may not automatically, Fever-Mercury 2 pops off here in a couple hours.

Probably too much to ask for that game to live up to the last one, but maybe, just maybe.

I'm no basketball rocket surgeon, but I'd have to think the Mercury rethink the strategy of having Copper chase Clark all game while their really good defensive PG is guarding Boston and Smith. I don't think it's a coincidence that Copper only scored 5 points last time. Cloud is a hell of a defender and they like to let her guard bigs sometimes, but this seems like a match-up where you say hey Cloud go try to slow down Clark.

 

[pollardsvision]

So much for that. Cloud is a late scratch.