pollardsvision
Footballguy
And Kelsey and Boston. Other All Stars that got rest.
Both have been on fire during the Fever's run.
And Lexie today.
Caitlin is amazing and this is a really good team that looks like they're about to make a run.
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***official 2024/25 women’s college bball thread*** paige gets her title and will soon be beat up and abused in the wnba (6 Viewers)
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Both have been on fire during the Fever's run.
And Lexie today.
Caitlin is amazing and this is a really good team that looks like they're about to make a run.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Another blowout loss for the Sky against the Mercury.
Mercury are a terrible matchup for the Sky, but I think it seems pretty clear that the Sky can't make up for the loss of Mabrey and have very little hope of holding on the 8-seed.
It's just nearly impossible to win basketball games in 2024 with absolutely no 3-point threat. Mabrey was the only player on the roster averaging more than 1.0 made 3P per game.
It was a good run because they weren't supposed to be any good this year. But the next 13 games are going to be really ugly with teams just packing the paint. They are gritty, and will gut out some wins, but not enough to hang on to that playoff spot.
Hopefully they can get some shooters in the off-season (which won't be easy because Chicago has the worst facilities in the league and nobody wants to go there).
Mercury are a terrible matchup for the Sky, but I think it seems pretty clear that the Sky can't make up for the loss of Mabrey and have very little hope of holding on the 8-seed.
It's just nearly impossible to win basketball games in 2024 with absolutely no 3-point threat. Mabrey was the only player on the roster averaging more than 1.0 made 3P per game.
It was a good run because they weren't supposed to be any good this year. But the next 13 games are going to be really ugly with teams just packing the paint. They are gritty, and will gut out some wins, but not enough to hang on to that playoff spot.
Hopefully they can get some shooters in the off-season (which won't be easy because Chicago has the worst facilities in the league and nobody wants to go there).
pollardsvision
Footballguy
It sure looks like Atlanta is about to go on a run. They have now played 2 games this season with Jordin Canada and Rhyne Howard on the floor together. In those games, they just beat the 2nd place Sun and 5th place Storm.
Jordin Canada is so good. Gets to the rim, great passer, tough as nails, can knock down shots. Early in the year, the Dream were just sort of painful to watch. Everything just felt directionless, but Canada just seems to unlock it all.
Similar to the Fever getting on the same page with Clark. You can have talented players, but the right distributor just brings it all together.
And getting Rhyne back is so huge. Allisha Gray and Tina Charles are awesome, but Jordin/Rhyne open things up for them and more importantly, there's enough scoring on the floor that nobody has to be perfect.
Jordin Canada is so good. Gets to the rim, great passer, tough as nails, can knock down shots. Early in the year, the Dream were just sort of painful to watch. Everything just felt directionless, but Canada just seems to unlock it all.
Similar to the Fever getting on the same page with Clark. You can have talented players, but the right distributor just brings it all together.
And getting Rhyne back is so huge. Allisha Gray and Tina Charles are awesome, but Jordin/Rhyne open things up for them and more importantly, there's enough scoring on the floor that nobody has to be perfect.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
And at the other end of the standings, the Liberty clinch a playoff spot with a freaking month left to go. And for the first time all year, they are the betting favorite to win it all.
I still think A'Ja is the best in the world, but Stewie seems to have had enough of that talk.
And while close, and there were a lot of great performances, Stewie seemed to be the best player in Paris overall. A lot of games the US started slow, and it seemed like Stewie held it down until the US's depth finally overwhelmed the opponent.
If she's got a chip on her shoulder and Sabrina's making the leap, seems like as good a time as any for the Liberty to finally get a ring.
I still think A'Ja is the best in the world, but Stewie seems to have had enough of that talk.
And while close, and there were a lot of great performances, Stewie seemed to be the best player in Paris overall. A lot of games the US started slow, and it seemed like Stewie held it down until the US's depth finally overwhelmed the opponent.
If she's got a chip on her shoulder and Sabrina's making the leap, seems like as good a time as any for the Liberty to finally get a ring.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Big win for the Storm to snap the skid. Hated to see the Mystics lose that one. They were playing their butts off.
Maybe an even bigger win for the Storm is they just signed Gabby Williams, the player from France that lit up the Olympics and got everybody asking why she isn't in the WNBA.
Maybe an even bigger win for the Storm is they just signed Gabby Williams, the player from France that lit up the Olympics and got everybody asking why she isn't in the WNBA.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yep, it feels like no one even talked about the women's team at the Olympics. Co-workers were talking every day about the Olympics, yet I didn't hear a single person talk about them, and that wouldn't have been the case had Clark been there.
However, getting some much-needed time has been a huge benefit to her, which is plain as day in watching her play since.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I didn't realize the Sparks-Sun game last night was in Boston. They drew 19,000 fans (3rd largest crowd in the W this year). Pretty awesome.
Obviously, it helped that it was the first WNBA game ever in Boston.
Certainly helps the case for Boston as a future expansion city. I'd hate thought of anybody getting any ideas about moving another pro team out of Connecticut.
Interesting that the Sun brought Bonner off the bench trying to figure out the rotations with the Mabrey addition. Bonner is the 5th leading scorer in WNBA history (will be 4th in a few games) and is averaging 17 PPG here at age 37.
It worked out last night, and it would be cool if the Mabrey addition helps them get over the hump.
The poor Sparks. The Brink injury is just so devastating. Heck, both of their PG's are on 7-day contracts.
But they are currently the leader in the Paige sweepstakes. Brink, Rickea, and Paige as a young nucleus with Hamby could be special.
Obviously, it helped that it was the first WNBA game ever in Boston.
Certainly helps the case for Boston as a future expansion city. I'd hate thought of anybody getting any ideas about moving another pro team out of Connecticut.
Interesting that the Sun brought Bonner off the bench trying to figure out the rotations with the Mabrey addition. Bonner is the 5th leading scorer in WNBA history (will be 4th in a few games) and is averaging 17 PPG here at age 37.
It worked out last night, and it would be cool if the Mabrey addition helps them get over the hump.
The poor Sparks. The Brink injury is just so devastating. Heck, both of their PG's are on 7-day contracts.
But they are currently the leader in the Paige sweepstakes. Brink, Rickea, and Paige as a young nucleus with Hamby could be special.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
This game was just raucous. Tie game with 3 minutes left. It got away from the Sparks, but it was intense every step of the way.
This is the beauty of the W. Sparks are in a completely lost season. Just horrifying.
But they took the #2 team in the league to the brink in the Garden.
Imagine the Carolina Panthers taking the 49ers to the brink and it not being a surprise. Anybody wondering why this random redneck loves this league, that's it.
This is the beauty of the W. Sparks are in a completely lost season. Just horrifying.
But they took the #2 team in the league to the brink in the Garden.
Imagine the Carolina Panthers taking the 49ers to the brink and it not being a surprise. Anybody wondering why this random redneck loves this league, that's it.
General Malaise
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
And back on the market too!
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Impressive win by the Lynx over the Aces.
Newly acquired Myisha Hines-Allen just fits in like a glove. MHA wasn't even starting for the struggling Mystics, but she could very well swing a Playoff series down the road.
Lynx were already loaded with bigs that can defend and shoot.
Lynx just play such beautiful basketball. Maybe the best defensive team in the league, and on offense, it's just a symphony of ball movement and shooters at every position.
If anybody outside of the Liberty or Aces is going to win it, the Lynx are as good a bet as anybody (the are the Commish Cup Champs afterall).
I was worried about Phee's foot coming out of the Olympic break, but she looks as good as ever.
Newly acquired Myisha Hines-Allen just fits in like a glove. MHA wasn't even starting for the struggling Mystics, but she could very well swing a Playoff series down the road.
Lynx were already loaded with bigs that can defend and shoot.
Lynx just play such beautiful basketball. Maybe the best defensive team in the league, and on offense, it's just a symphony of ball movement and shooters at every position.
If anybody outside of the Liberty or Aces is going to win it, the Lynx are as good a bet as anybody (the are the Commish Cup Champs afterall).
I was worried about Phee's foot coming out of the Olympic break, but she looks as good as ever.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Certainly not going to have an impact on the 2024 title, but last night, we had the #1 and #2 scorers in WNBA history on the court at the same time. Tina Charles passed Tina Thompson.
In theory, somebody could surpass Taurasi. But that would mean being elite scorer into your 40's without ever having a major injury or getting pregnant.
Possible, but very unlikely.
In theory, somebody could surpass Taurasi. But that would mean being elite scorer into your 40's without ever having a major injury or getting pregnant.
Possible, but very unlikely.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
If the WNBA expands, that means more games each season. Within 5 years, they could be playing 50 or 60 games instead of 35-40.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
True. Heck, I think it was only 5-10 years ago that they were only playing like 26-27 games a year.
Personally, I'd like to see them keep it around 50 games. I think the CBA allows for 44, and there's speculation that might happen next year.
And while some expansion is necessary, and surely they need more jobs for these women, I hope they keep any expansion in check too (about to be at 14 and ultimately 16-18 sounds awesome).
A short season and relatively low number of teams is a big appeal to the league for me. And certainly makes it unique among pro sports leagues (other than the NFL on number of regular season games).
I used to have MLB Extra Innings and the NBA League Pass, but as I get older, there's just now way I'm watching any meaningful portion of the total games played. Once following/watching the regular season becomes overwhelming, it's easy to just zone out and wait for the Playoffs.
40 games and a low number of teams is just awesome.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Was listening to a podcast this morning with a guy writing a book about Caitlin Clark (Howard Megdal).
Interesting relating the Caitlin Clark origin story to Iowa 6-on-6 basketball.
This isn't the first time women's basketball was popular. Apparently, women's high school basketball was wildy popular in Iowa from the 1920's to 1970's. They were apparently drawing 10-15,000 fans to girls high school basketball games decades before Title IX, when girls playing sports was unheard of in many states.
Anyway, they played 6-on-6 basketball, which I'd never heard of.
Each team has 3 guards and 3 forwards. They can't cross halfcourt.
So, the 3 guards only play defense (you know, guard) and then pass the ball to the forwards. Only the forwards can shoot/score. And in most variations, the forwards can only dribble 2 times before they shoot or pass.
Anyway, the point it's fast-paced with a lot of ball movement and long passes. Sound like anybody you know?
AFAIK, Clark never played 6-on-6, but all the people she learned basketball from did. Iowa's state girls HS basketball championship was still played with 6-on-6 rules in 1993. And it reaches back to 1920.
It's how Lisa Bluder grew up playing basketball. Probably Jen Jansen too, and certainly everybody Jansen learned to play from.
So, it makes sense that 100 years of rich Iowa women's basketball in that style has led to a wunderkind flinging 60 foot passes down the court and pushing the pace at a fever pitch.
Interesting relating the Caitlin Clark origin story to Iowa 6-on-6 basketball.
This isn't the first time women's basketball was popular. Apparently, women's high school basketball was wildy popular in Iowa from the 1920's to 1970's. They were apparently drawing 10-15,000 fans to girls high school basketball games decades before Title IX, when girls playing sports was unheard of in many states.
Anyway, they played 6-on-6 basketball, which I'd never heard of.
Each team has 3 guards and 3 forwards. They can't cross halfcourt.
So, the 3 guards only play defense (you know, guard) and then pass the ball to the forwards. Only the forwards can shoot/score. And in most variations, the forwards can only dribble 2 times before they shoot or pass.
Anyway, the point it's fast-paced with a lot of ball movement and long passes. Sound like anybody you know?
AFAIK, Clark never played 6-on-6, but all the people she learned basketball from did. Iowa's state girls HS basketball championship was still played with 6-on-6 rules in 1993. And it reaches back to 1920.
It's how Lisa Bluder grew up playing basketball. Probably Jen Jansen too, and certainly everybody Jansen learned to play from.
So, it makes sense that 100 years of rich Iowa women's basketball in that style has led to a wunderkind flinging 60 foot passes down the court and pushing the pace at a fever pitch.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
We played Iowa girls rules in PE sometimes in the 80s, just to mix it up.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I can't imagine there's any real chance that the Sky could win this game. But man I'm so proud of them.
They are completely outclassed on the road against the team that Mabrey left them for.
But these kids are going to keep fighting. That much I know.
They are completely outclassed on the road against the team that Mabrey left them for.
But these kids are going to keep fighting. That much I know.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I play pickleball with my daughter. I bring my basketball and when she rests from pickleball I walk a few feet and shoot around. Today, a 34 year old guy was shooting. I walked over and like any regular basketball guy said, "Winners, first one to 11?" We started to play and ten minutes in after he made b2b long 2 pt shots, he said he has been watching Clark clips lately. Caught me off guard and I really chuckled. The point is the wnba made it to backwood courts of Ringgold Georgia.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
That was such a Chicago game.
The fight to get back in it in the the 3rd was awesome to see, and a lot of WTF in the 4th.
Kardoso not touching the ball down the stretch was a crime, but it's great to see her coming along. She's going to be so good.
The fight to get back in it in the the 3rd was awesome to see, and a lot of WTF in the 4th.
Kardoso not touching the ball down the stretch was a crime, but it's great to see her coming along. She's going to be so good.
I read somewhere that she is the most blocked player in WNBA history and has by far the most short misses. Looking at the clip, I am starting to understand.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
They might have won if "star" rookie Reese could make a 3 foot shot. 3 for 12, with most of her shots coming right at the rim. That is awful. But hey, DOUBLE-DOUBLE!! (which is easier to get when you miss your own shots on purpose so you can pad your rebounds)
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Pretty big one tonight in Minnesota.
Homecoming of sorts for Clark, and tonight, Minnesota is retiring Maya Moore's jersey.
They are catching the Lynx at a good time. Fever with 5 days rest, and the Lynx on a back-to-back after battling the Aces twice in 3 days.
Last night's game was so big Alanna Smith limped off the court 3 times and Cheryl kept sending her back in there.
Homecoming of sorts for Clark, and tonight, Minnesota is retiring Maya Moore's jersey.
They are catching the Lynx at a good time. Fever with 5 days rest, and the Lynx on a back-to-back after battling the Aces twice in 3 days.
Last night's game was so big Alanna Smith limped off the court 3 times and Cheryl kept sending her back in there.
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Don’t forget the double dribbles. She can barely dribble the ball properly.I read somewhere that she is the most blocked player in WNBA history and has by far the most short misses. Looking at the clip, I am starting to understand.
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
Napheesa Collier is really good, in particular on defense. She is the only one I have seen that can flummox Caitlin one-on-one.
Collier has excellent footwork which she uses to keep Clark from driving on her, and she also plays tight so Clark can't get her arms extended for a pass.
Collier has excellent footwork which she uses to keep Clark from driving on her, and she also plays tight so Clark can't get her arms extended for a pass.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
She's amazing.
The Lynx weren't expected to do much this year, but they could damn well win the whole thing.
They are doing this because they are unselfish and relentless on both ends of the floor, and it all starts with Phee.
I feel like I've got 12 favorite teams in the league, but the Lynx are probably the most fun to watch and hard to root against because of how they play.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
And I can't get enough Alanna Smith.
She had the best plus/minus of the game last night (I know, completely meaningless for a single game), but she did it without scoring a single point.
That's just how she rolls. Great defense, some timely blocks, great ball movement, and good shooter. Still pissed she wasn't an All-Star.
She had the best plus/minus of the game last night (I know, completely meaningless for a single game), but she did it without scoring a single point.
That's just how she rolls. Great defense, some timely blocks, great ball movement, and good shooter. Still pissed she wasn't an All-Star.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
I can't believ how unpolished she is at this level. Her tenacity on the boards is impressive though. Needs someone to work with her on her touch and coordinationDon’t forget the double dribbles. She can barely dribble the ball properly.I read somewhere that she is the most blocked player in WNBA history and has by far the most short misses. Looking at the clip, I am starting to understand.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Honestly, I just think she lacks talent. She is very tall and plays her tail off, hence most of the rebounds she gets (the one she gets from missing her own shots on purpose notwithstanding), but she is lacking in pure talent. I mean, look at today's game. How does a big grab10 offensive rebounds and go 4 of 16 shooting from the field?I can't believ how unpolished she is at this level. Her tenacity on the boards is impressive though. Needs someone to work with her on her touch and coordinationDon’t forget the double dribbles. She can barely dribble the ball properly.I read somewhere that she is the most blocked player in WNBA history and has by far the most short misses. Looking at the clip, I am starting to understand.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I mean, exactly. We know the answer - she can’t shoot and can’t dribble.Honestly, I just think she lacks talent. She is very tall and plays her tail off, hence most of the rebounds she gets (the one she gets from missing her own shots on purpose notwithstanding), but she is lacking in pure talent. I mean, look at today's game. How does a big grab10 offensive rebounds and go 4 of 16 shooting from the field?I can't believ how unpolished she is at this level. Her tenacity on the boards is impressive though. Needs someone to work with her on her touch and coordinationDon’t forget the double dribbles. She can barely dribble the ball properly.I read somewhere that she is the most blocked player in WNBA history and has by far the most short misses. Looking at the clip, I am starting to understand.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I'm under no illusion that anybody is actually watching these games. High five each other for that, good job, good effort.
If we live in a pretend world where anybody is watching, it's laughable that Angel hot takes are the takeaway from this amazing game (I think she only missed one layup in this great game).
Even Angel's biggest fans know she has a lot of work to do on the offensive end. If you've recently discovered that, congratulations. That's why she was the #7 pick in a league where the #7 pick often doesn't make the team or stick in the league. I What she does well (motor, rebounding, defense), she does really well. I'm an old fart, and those things are commendable to me in my old age, old school ways.
She's flawed, but even as a rookie with her flaws, she's #18 in the league in win shares. She has a major positive impact on her team.
The Sky are in a complete rebuild, and they just lost their only veteran scorer and deep threat.
This season was supposed to be complete trash. Their best players are the #7 pick (usually irrelevant) and a player that was out of the league (Chennedy). It wasn't supposed to happen, but they ended up being competitive. Angel's motor and Chennedy getting it together are the reason for that, even if it can't last because of the team's deficiencies.
Anyway to more important matters, what a game.
Aces are exhausted going for a 3-peat and all their stars are exhausted from the Olympics. Sky, with all their deficiencies, put them to the test. Kardoso-A'ja going at it in an SC battle is so fun.
Sky came after it in a beautiful way. But the Champs dug down and got it together before it was too late.
If we live in a pretend world where anybody is watching, it's laughable that Angel hot takes are the takeaway from this amazing game (I think she only missed one layup in this great game).
Even Angel's biggest fans know she has a lot of work to do on the offensive end. If you've recently discovered that, congratulations. That's why she was the #7 pick in a league where the #7 pick often doesn't make the team or stick in the league. I What she does well (motor, rebounding, defense), she does really well. I'm an old fart, and those things are commendable to me in my old age, old school ways.
She's flawed, but even as a rookie with her flaws, she's #18 in the league in win shares. She has a major positive impact on her team.
The Sky are in a complete rebuild, and they just lost their only veteran scorer and deep threat.
This season was supposed to be complete trash. Their best players are the #7 pick (usually irrelevant) and a player that was out of the league (Chennedy). It wasn't supposed to happen, but they ended up being competitive. Angel's motor and Chennedy getting it together are the reason for that, even if it can't last because of the team's deficiencies.
Anyway to more important matters, what a game.
Aces are exhausted going for a 3-peat and all their stars are exhausted from the Olympics. Sky, with all their deficiencies, put them to the test. Kardoso-A'ja going at it in an SC battle is so fun.
Sky came after it in a beautiful way. But the Champs dug down and got it together before it was too late.
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pollardsvision
Footballguy
And Maya Moore's jersey retirement ceremony?
If you can hide the tears, you are a tougher man than me.
If you can hide the tears, you are a tougher man than me.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Watching the games makes it clear that Reese's double-double thing is inflated and fairly meaningless. It sounds good on paper, but really isn't when you watch her play.
When having a great motor is your best attribute (as it was the one you mentioned twice), that just screams "no talent!" As I said earlier, she plays her tail off, probably because she has to due to her lack of talent. It's like the ugly person putting in more effort doing the naughty because they know they can't rely on their looks.
When having a great motor is your best attribute (as it was the one you mentioned twice), that just screams "no talent!" As I said earlier, she plays her tail off, probably because she has to due to her lack of talent. It's like the ugly person putting in more effort doing the naughty because they know they can't rely on their looks.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I really don't even know how to respond to this but good for you for crapping on a player who's best attribute is that they hustle and give a crap.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I can only imagine the Gen Z Twitter crowd must be super proud.
Us old farts care about effort.
But I know these young kids care about likes. And they think everybody's born with it, and that you don't have to work for it.
Anyway congratulations brother I'm sure you're a hero to the young kids.
Us old farts care about effort.
But I know these young kids care about likes. And they think everybody's born with it, and that you don't have to work for it.
Anyway congratulations brother I'm sure you're a hero to the young kids.
bigbottom
Footballguy
@pollardsvision I mean this in the kindest way possible - you seem to be taking observations by other people personally. No one in here is as big of a fan of the WNBA or as knowledgeable as you. That is obvious. But your not so infrequent digs at other people who don’t watch as many games or have opinions different than yours or who may just be Clark devotees isn’t going to help make them fans of the sport. I would stick to your always interesting game summaries and spirited debate (but without the shots at others). Just my two cents.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
To whom are you even talking? I was born in the 70s and don't care a lick about likes, so I know you can't be talking about me.
Hard work and effort is great, but, for the 399th time, when someone working hard is considered their best attribute, that speaks to their deficiencies elsewhere. When you are getting paid big money to play a sport, hard work should go without saying. Sadly, many half *** it, and those people should be called out, but the ones who do work and play hard don't deserve extra credit for doing something they should be doing anyway.
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dino259
Footballguy
Isn't Reece actually undersized for a big?Honestly, I just think she lacks talent. She is very tall and plays her tail off, hence most of the rebounds she gets (the one she gets from missing her own shots on purpose notwithstanding), but she is lacking in pure talent. I mean, look at today's game. How does a big grab10 offensive rebounds and go 4 of 16 shooting from the field?I can't believ how unpolished she is at this level. Her tenacity on the boards is impressive though. Needs someone to work with her on her touch and coordinationDon’t forget the double dribbles. She can barely dribble the ball properly.I read somewhere that she is the most blocked player in WNBA history and has by far the most short misses. Looking at the clip, I am starting to understand.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I am surprised that Reese didn’t use the Olympic break to sharpen up her game, specifically her shooting. What did she have to do over that break? Nothing, really. So hit the gym and work on your short game near the basket. But …maybe it’ll click more next season.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
It's pretty perplexing.
It sounds like she's had some weird coaching in the past.
And apparently, she was a guard in highschool before a growth spurt, which seems surprising.
I'd assume it'll take a full off-season with the right coaching to get it going in the right direction.
For this season coming right out of college, Spoon probably just wants her to focus on what she does best and deal with the shot/finishing in the off-season.
The question is, (at what point) does it hamper the team? Or are they out of the playoff race?
bigbottom
Footballguy
I haven’t watched enough Angel Reese, but is it possible she’s more in the Dennis Rodman mold where she hustles and rebounds and that is her proper role? She’s leading the league in rebounds and she’d be second in the league if you took away all the offensive rebounds off her own misses (and probably still in first if you took away everyone else’s offensive rebounds off of their own misses). That’s still pretty crazy for a rookie.
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Rodman shot between 50 up to almost 60% in the NBA.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Okay, but he only averaged 7.3 points per game over the course of his hall of fame career. Angel is averaging 13.5 points per game mid-way through her rookie year (while shooting 38% or so). That would seem to support the suggestion that her role be focused on rebounding and less so on scoring.
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Rodman was a 52% career shooter. He shot only 45% in his time with the Bulls.
Sorry, what was the point with Rodman’s percentage? He wasn’t a good shooter, and much of his time in Detroit he got dunks and layups.
