*** OFFICIAL *** Baseball Offseason Moves (2006-07)... (2 Viewers)

[tommyGunZ]

what a waste if he turns out to be another Irabu.

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

Don't you guys think that adding marketing value for a player from another country that has, up until this point, been largely untapped by this team is much different to adding a superstar player who was already in the MLB to a team already filled with superstars?

 

[the moops]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

I think it is fine to do so to get a ballpark value figure for what they are paying Matsuzaka per year...All other accounting for the deal (i.e. tax implications, luxury tax, offsetting profit in John Henry's portfolio, expected revenue generated by the signing, etc) certainly does mitigate the signing, but we never take that into account...We don't look at A-Rod's salary and factor in how much $$ he "makes" for the Yankees, we just report an annual salary #...

ARod has nothing to do with Matusaka. And he certainly has nothing to do with the Sox giving 51 million to Seibu.Hypothetical for you. What if, in the next 5 years the Sox generate 40 million dollars in added revenue from the Japanese market because of this signing. Will you take that out of the equation as to what they are paying Matsuzaka? And then deem that they paid only 65 million for 6 years?Because in effect, that is what they are doing with the 51 million.

do you discount the ARod contract by the added revenue the Yankees bring in by having him on the roster?

If you could point to added revenue that ARod is responsible for, then yes. Don't know how much extra ARod brings to the table, but if I had to guess, I would say not much.

So you don't.

Can you point to extra revenue? If so, then yes, I would certainly discount it.

 

[the moops]

what a waste if he turns out to be another Irabu.

Yay! Let's lump all Asian pitchers together!

 

[tommyGunZ]

what a waste if he turns out to be another Irabu.

Yay! Let's lump all Asianoverhyped starting pitchers who get ridiculous contracts before ever throwing a ML pitch together!

Fixed.

 

[the moops]

what a waste if he turns out to be another Irabu.

Yay! Let's lump all Asianoverhyped starting pitchers who get ridiculous contracts before ever throwing a ML pitch together!

Fixed.

The why pick out the one Asian guy?

 

[Tremendous Upside]

No one is saying that they don't understand why the Sox did what they did, only that to not include the $51 million bid seems disingenous if you are going to discuss how much the Sox are paying for Matsuzaka...

 

[Keys Myaths]

That was really cheap.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

 

[ThisGuy]

what a waste if he turns out to be another Irabu.

Yay! Let's lump all Asian pitchers together!

Nomo's gimmick got old quick.Irabu had 1 good year.Sasaki was past his prime when he got here, but was a decent closer for a few years.Wang has looked real good, but learned how to pitch here for a few years before getting called up.He could turn out to be an All-Star, he could turn out to be a flop. There is no telling because he has never pitched here.Kaz Matsui was supposed to be the next Ichiro when he got here.Kideki Matsui was a power hitter, not the line-drive .300 hitter he's become.There is a lot of question with Asian ballplayers. Some turn out good, some not so good. To say it's a waste if he becomes the next Irabu is the truth. Tommy didn't say he was going to become the next Irabu.

 

[ThisGuy]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

The Red Sox want everyone to believe they are just as "poor" as the other baseball teams and not as rich as the Yankees.

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

Is this a serious question?Just because there's no cap doesn't mean that teams have unlimited resources. The Red Sox, like all teams, have a cap that is mandated by their limited amount of resources.It matters.

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

The Red Sox want everyone to believe they are just as "poor" as the other baseball teams and not as rich as the Yankees.

Link?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

While the Tigers are out getting Sheffield, I see the Twins are getting Jeff Cirillo.

In other news, Jeff Cirillo is still in the major leagues. Unbelievable.

I guess the Twins couldn't come to terms with Ben Oglivie (2-5, 3-6 HR and 2-6 HR 1-14)

 

[the moops]

what a waste if he turns out to be another Irabu.

Yay! Let's lump all Asian pitchers together!

Nomo's gimmick got old quick.

Irabu had 1 good year.

Sasaki was past his prime when he got here, but was a decent closer for a few years.

Wang has looked real good, but learned how to pitch here for a few years before getting called up.

He could turn out to be an All-Star, he could turn out to be a flop. There is no telling because he has never pitched here.

Kaz Matsui was supposed to be the next Ichiro when he got here.

Kideki Matsui was a power hitter, not the line-drive .300 hitter he's become.

There is a lot of question with Asian ballplayers. Some turn out good, some not so good.

To say it's a waste if he becomes the next Irabu is the truth.

Tommy didn't say he was going to become the next Irabu.

He also didnt say he was going to be the next Ichirne worked out, one didn't. He hates on the Sox so he picks the one that didnt.

 

[Dan Gladden's Mustache]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

You don't have to go through it with me. I understand how the whole system works. I was just ballparking the total numbers to get an idea of overall value of what the end game of his contract looks like. You don't need to downgrade into defense mode with me on this one like so many others do. I'm not attacking the economics of baseball or the stupidity of the Red Sox front office. I'm just eyeballing what it means in terms of the current market.You guys did good. Enjoy it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire posting thing gets looked at again (I'm sure Boras would have really loved to have turned the screws harder this time, but Matsuzaka basically burned his bridges a month ago in Japan and thus had no real fallback position). As more top Japanese players show that they can be MLB All-Star type talents, the posting systems seems like a realtively easy way for the big market clubs to circumvent the luxury tax. Post a big number that's not luxury taxed and thus basically force the player to sign at below market wages since they really have no bargainning power.I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a European football type transfer system in the end where the player gets some percentage of the posting with that amount counting for luxury tax purposes over the course of the contact length.

Do you think if Matsuzaka is getting 6yr/$60mil that he's being signed "below market"? If so, I'm not sure that I agree with you given that he hasn't thrown a pitch in the MLB.I still think its a great move for the Sawx, however its not risk free.

In this market yeah (and at 6yrs/52 mil evenmoreso). If Gil Meche gets 11 mil per year, a 26 year old who's better than him should certainly command something from 13-16 million per year range.

How do you know he's better? Did Meche pitch in Japan?For the Sox sake I hope he's better...

 

[the moops]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

You don't have to go through it with me. I understand how the whole system works. I was just ballparking the total numbers to get an idea of overall value of what the end game of his contract looks like. You don't need to downgrade into defense mode with me on this one like so many others do. I'm not attacking the economics of baseball or the stupidity of the Red Sox front office. I'm just eyeballing what it means in terms of the current market.You guys did good. Enjoy it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire posting thing gets looked at again (I'm sure Boras would have really loved to have turned the screws harder this time, but Matsuzaka basically burned his bridges a month ago in Japan and thus had no real fallback position). As more top Japanese players show that they can be MLB All-Star type talents, the posting systems seems like a realtively easy way for the big market clubs to circumvent the luxury tax. Post a big number that's not luxury taxed and thus basically force the player to sign at below market wages since they really have no bargainning power.I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a European football type transfer system in the end where the player gets some percentage of the posting with that amount counting for luxury tax purposes over the course of the contact length.

Do you think if Matsuzaka is getting 6yr/$60mil that he's being signed "below market"? If so, I'm not sure that I agree with you given that he hasn't thrown a pitch in the MLB.I still think its a great move for the Sawx, however its not risk free.

In this market yeah (and at 6yrs/52 mil evenmoreso). If Gil Meche gets 11 mil per year, a 26 year old who's better than him should certainly command something from 13-16 million per year range.

How do you know he's better? Did Meche pitch in Japan?For the Sox sake I hope he's better...

Cause Gil Meche sucks?

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

C'mon guys - I'm better than Gil ####### Meche.

 

[Eephus]

Gyro-san's upside is higher than Meche's or Ted Lilly's but I don't see where he poses any greater risk.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

Is this a serious question?Just because there's no cap doesn't mean that teams have unlimited resources. The Red Sox, like all teams, have a cap that is mandated by their limited amount of resources.It matters.

If they were really that limited, they wouldn't have gotten involved in this whole deal to start. They seem determined to keep up with the Yanks and this deal proves it.

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

Is this a serious question?Just because there's no cap doesn't mean that teams have unlimited resources. The Red Sox, like all teams, have a cap that is mandated by their limited amount of resources.It matters.

If they were really that limited, they wouldn't have gotten involved in this whole deal to start. They seem determined to keep up with the Yanks and this deal proves it.

A) The Red Sox are still nowhere close to the Yankees payroll.B) You weren't talking about the Red Sox - you said that salary doesn't matter because there's no salary cap. Which is ridiculous.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

Is this a serious question?Just because there's no cap doesn't mean that teams have unlimited resources. The Red Sox, like all teams, have a cap that is mandated by their limited amount of resources.It matters.

If they were really that limited, they wouldn't have gotten involved in this whole deal to start. They seem determined to keep up with the Yanks and this deal proves it.

A) The Red Sox are still nowhere close to the Yankees payroll.B) You weren't talking about the Red Sox - you said that salary doesn't matter because there's no salary cap. Which is ridiculous.

THERE IS NO SALARY CAP. And the Red Sox are closer to the Yanks payroll than they are to anyone else's.

 

[the moops]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

Is this a serious question?Just because there's no cap doesn't mean that teams have unlimited resources. The Red Sox, like all teams, have a cap that is mandated by their limited amount of resources.It matters.

If they were really that limited, they wouldn't have gotten involved in this whole deal to start. They seem determined to keep up with the Yanks and this deal proves it.

Yes, the Sox have money, and they spend it.However, they (120 mill) are closer in payroll to the Oakland A's (60 mill) than they are to the Yankees (195 mill).

 

[the moops]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

Is this a serious question?Just because there's no cap doesn't mean that teams have unlimited resources. The Red Sox, like all teams, have a cap that is mandated by their limited amount of resources.It matters.

If they were really that limited, they wouldn't have gotten involved in this whole deal to start. They seem determined to keep up with the Yanks and this deal proves it.

A) The Red Sox are still nowhere close to the Yankees payroll.B) You weren't talking about the Red Sox - you said that salary doesn't matter because there's no salary cap. Which is ridiculous.

THERE IS NO SALARY CAP. And the Red Sox are closer to the Yanks payroll than they are to anyone else's.

Wrong. See Post above

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

Is this a serious question?Just because there's no cap doesn't mean that teams have unlimited resources. The Red Sox, like all teams, have a cap that is mandated by their limited amount of resources.It matters.

If they were really that limited, they wouldn't have gotten involved in this whole deal to start. They seem determined to keep up with the Yanks and this deal proves it.

A) The Red Sox are still nowhere close to the Yankees payroll.B) You weren't talking about the Red Sox - you said that salary doesn't matter because there's no salary cap. Which is ridiculous.

THERE IS NO SALARY CAP. And the Red Sox are closer to the Yanks payroll than they are to anyone else's.

I'm aware that there is no salary cap.I'm aware that the Red Sox are the closest team to the Yankees.If you were merely stating those two things, I would not be writing this post.You said: There is no salary cap, therefore salary doesn't matter.I'm saying: The idea that no salary cap means salary doesn't matter is just idiotic.You said: The Red Sox are determined to keep up with the Yankees.I'm saying: The Red Sox are still well behind the Yankees, and how they spend has nothing to do with "keeping up" with the Yankees.Try again. Let me know when you finish. Don't hurt yourself.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

Is this a serious question?Just because there's no cap doesn't mean that teams have unlimited resources. The Red Sox, like all teams, have a cap that is mandated by their limited amount of resources.It matters.

If they were really that limited, they wouldn't have gotten involved in this whole deal to start. They seem determined to keep up with the Yanks and this deal proves it.

A) The Red Sox are still nowhere close to the Yankees payroll.B) You weren't talking about the Red Sox - you said that salary doesn't matter because there's no salary cap. Which is ridiculous.

THERE IS NO SALARY CAP. And the Red Sox are closer to the Yanks payroll than they are to anyone else's.

I'm aware that there is no salary cap.I'm aware that the Red Sox are the closest team to the Yankees.If you were merely stating those two things, I would not be writing this post.You said: There is no salary cap, therefore salary doesn't matter.I'm saying: The idea that no salary cap means salary doesn't matter is just idiotic.You said: The Red Sox are determined to keep up with the Yankees.I'm saying: The Red Sox are still well behind the Yankees, and how they spend has nothing to do with "keeping up" with the Yankees.Try again. Let me know when you finish. Don't hurt yourself.

If salary didn't matter, then why are the Sox the highest bidder in this situation? They are spending as if salary does not matter.

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

Is this a serious question?Just because there's no cap doesn't mean that teams have unlimited resources. The Red Sox, like all teams, have a cap that is mandated by their limited amount of resources.It matters.

If they were really that limited, they wouldn't have gotten involved in this whole deal to start. They seem determined to keep up with the Yanks and this deal proves it.

A) The Red Sox are still nowhere close to the Yankees payroll.B) You weren't talking about the Red Sox - you said that salary doesn't matter because there's no salary cap. Which is ridiculous.

THERE IS NO SALARY CAP. And the Red Sox are closer to the Yanks payroll than they are to anyone else's.

I'm aware that there is no salary cap.I'm aware that the Red Sox are the closest team to the Yankees.If you were merely stating those two things, I would not be writing this post.You said: There is no salary cap, therefore salary doesn't matter.I'm saying: The idea that no salary cap means salary doesn't matter is just idiotic.You said: The Red Sox are determined to keep up with the Yankees.I'm saying: The Red Sox are still well behind the Yankees, and how they spend has nothing to do with "keeping up" with the Yankees.Try again. Let me know when you finish. Don't hurt yourself.

If salary didn't matter, then why are the Sox the highest bidder in this situation? They are spending as if salary does not matter.

Because they think he's worth it.Answer me this: why didn't the Sox sign Soriano? Or Lee? Or Schmidt? Or Meche?Better question: why didn't the Yankees bid more $ for Matz if it means nothing?I'm still hoping this is shtick and someone cannot be this clueless.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

The Red Sox want everyone to believe they are just as "poor" as the other baseball teams and not as rich as the Yankees.

Yes they are quite poor, only the 2nd highest payroll just is not enough to compete with the Yanks.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I'm still hoping this is shtick and someone cannot be this clueless.

Shtick? What would an alias named "'Daisuke Matsuzaka" know about shtick?

 

[Dan Gladden's Mustache]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

You don't have to go through it with me. I understand how the whole system works. I was just ballparking the total numbers to get an idea of overall value of what the end game of his contract looks like. You don't need to downgrade into defense mode with me on this one like so many others do. I'm not attacking the economics of baseball or the stupidity of the Red Sox front office. I'm just eyeballing what it means in terms of the current market.You guys did good. Enjoy it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire posting thing gets looked at again (I'm sure Boras would have really loved to have turned the screws harder this time, but Matsuzaka basically burned his bridges a month ago in Japan and thus had no real fallback position). As more top Japanese players show that they can be MLB All-Star type talents, the posting systems seems like a realtively easy way for the big market clubs to circumvent the luxury tax. Post a big number that's not luxury taxed and thus basically force the player to sign at below market wages since they really have no bargainning power.I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a European football type transfer system in the end where the player gets some percentage of the posting with that amount counting for luxury tax purposes over the course of the contact length.

Do you think if Matsuzaka is getting 6yr/$60mil that he's being signed "below market"? If so, I'm not sure that I agree with you given that he hasn't thrown a pitch in the MLB.I still think its a great move for the Sawx, however its not risk free.

In this market yeah (and at 6yrs/52 mil evenmoreso). If Gil Meche gets 11 mil per year, a 26 year old who's better than him should certainly command something from 13-16 million per year range.

How do you know he's better? Did Meche pitch in Japan?For the Sox sake I hope he's better...

Cause Gil Meche sucks?

Matsuzaka could suck worse...

 

[the moops]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

The Red Sox want everyone to believe they are just as "poor" as the other baseball teams and not as rich as the Yankees.

Yes they are quite poor, only the 2nd highest payroll just is not enough to compete with the Yanks.

2nd highest payroll is correct. However, you are still neglecting to look at the 75 million dollar difference between the Sox and the Yankees.

 

[the moops]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

You don't have to go through it with me. I understand how the whole system works. I was just ballparking the total numbers to get an idea of overall value of what the end game of his contract looks like. You don't need to downgrade into defense mode with me on this one like so many others do. I'm not attacking the economics of baseball or the stupidity of the Red Sox front office. I'm just eyeballing what it means in terms of the current market.You guys did good. Enjoy it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire posting thing gets looked at again (I'm sure Boras would have really loved to have turned the screws harder this time, but Matsuzaka basically burned his bridges a month ago in Japan and thus had no real fallback position). As more top Japanese players show that they can be MLB All-Star type talents, the posting systems seems like a realtively easy way for the big market clubs to circumvent the luxury tax. Post a big number that's not luxury taxed and thus basically force the player to sign at below market wages since they really have no bargainning power.I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a European football type transfer system in the end where the player gets some percentage of the posting with that amount counting for luxury tax purposes over the course of the contact length.

Do you think if Matsuzaka is getting 6yr/$60mil that he's being signed "below market"? If so, I'm not sure that I agree with you given that he hasn't thrown a pitch in the MLB.I still think its a great move for the Sawx, however its not risk free.

In this market yeah (and at 6yrs/52 mil evenmoreso). If Gil Meche gets 11 mil per year, a 26 year old who's better than him should certainly command something from 13-16 million per year range.

How do you know he's better? Did Meche pitch in Japan?For the Sox sake I hope he's better...

Cause Gil Meche sucks?

Matsuzaka could suck worse...

Of course he could. Although by every statistical measure he is a far superior pitcher to Gil Meche. That includes not only pitching in Japan, but also the WBC, the Olympics, and the against the major league baseball all star team that travelled to Japan.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

The Red Sox want everyone to believe they are just as "poor" as the other baseball teams and not as rich as the Yankees.

Yes they are quite poor, only the 2nd highest payroll just is not enough to compete with the Yanks.

2nd highest payroll is correct. However, you are still neglecting to look at the 75 million dollar difference between the Sox and the Yankees.

The Japanese market is now more open to them. I'm sure they will soon find a way to make up the difference.

 

[the moops]

There is no real salary cap in MLB, so what difference does it make how much he gets paid?

The Red Sox want everyone to believe they are just as "poor" as the other baseball teams and not as rich as the Yankees.

Yes they are quite poor, only the 2nd highest payroll just is not enough to compete with the Yanks.

2nd highest payroll is correct. However, you are still neglecting to look at the 75 million dollar difference between the Sox and the Yankees.

The Japanese market is now more open to them. I'm sure they will soon find a way to make up the difference.

Not until they get a bigger stadium. Tough to match up with the Yankees pulling in nearly twice as many fans a year. Even with the outrageous prices sox fans have to pay for a ticket.

 

[Statorama]

i need to reiterate that this will go down in history as the worst free agent class/signings in history.

I love the Cubs, and I think Soriano is a fine player, but his contract was a disgrace.

 

[wilked]

http://blogs.chron.com/lopezblog/archives/...ox_to_be_c.html

Hearing some noise about this on EEI...hard to see this happening after signing Dice-K, but I suppose anything is possible

 

[shadyridr]

Jose Vidro told the Washington Post that he has been dealt to the Mariners, reportedly for Chris Snelling and Emiliano Fruto.Can't someone fire Bill Bavasi before he does anymore damage? The Mariners are taking on $12 million of the $16 million Vidro is owed over the next two years, which would be reasonable if Vidro still happened to be a quality defensive second baseman. As is, the Mariners figure to DH him and keep Jose Lopez at second base. Vidro's OPS has dropped four straight seasons, falling to 763 in 2005 and 744 last season. Also, he hasn't remained healthy enough to get 500 at-bats since 2003. Snelling certainly had a realistic chance of being a better DH, and Fruto has a fair amount of upside as either a starter or a reliever. Amazingly enough, this is another winner for Nats GM Jim Bowden. Dec. 13 - 8:10 pm et

I actually disagree with Rotoworld here. I dont think Snelling is much of anything and Vidro can still be a solid hitter. And as a DH he might be able to stay healthy. I dont know much about Fruto. I think this is a good deal for Seattle.

 

[Capella]

i need to reiterate that this will go down in history as the worst free agent class/signings in history.there's not 1 contract i really like. as a met fan, i kinda dont mind alou for 1 yr and 8.5mill. i guess glavine for 1 yr and 10.5mill is palatable, given the meche contract. el duque for 2 yrs @ 12mill seems a bargain.its not so much the money, its the years involved. i mean, meche for 5 yrs?

Agreed. Every day it's like these guys are trying to one-up each other on another stupid deal. Fun to watch.

 

[MrPhoenix]

i need to reiterate that this will go down in history as the worst free agent class/signings in history.there's not 1 contract i really like. as a met fan, i kinda dont mind alou for 1 yr and 8.5mill. i guess glavine for 1 yr and 10.5mill is palatable, given the meche contract. el duque for 2 yrs @ 12mill seems a bargain.its not so much the money, its the years involved. i mean, meche for 5 yrs?

Agreed. Every day it's like these guys are trying to one-up each other on another stupid deal. Fun to watch.

If someone gives Jeff Suppan a 5 year deal for 12 million, I'll wet myself laughing.

 

[Eephus]

i need to reiterate that this will go down in history as the worst free agent class/signings in history.there's not 1 contract i really like. as a met fan, i kinda dont mind alou for 1 yr and 8.5mill. i guess glavine for 1 yr and 10.5mill is palatable, given the meche contract. el duque for 2 yrs @ 12mill seems a bargain.its not so much the money, its the years involved. i mean, meche for 5 yrs?

Agreed. Every day it's like these guys are trying to one-up each other on another stupid deal. Fun to watch.

If someone gives Jeff Suppan a 5 year deal for 12 million, I'll wet myself laughing.

That's much better than Jason Marquis at 3 yr/$21M

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

i need to reiterate that this will go down in history as the worst free agent class/signings in history.there's not 1 contract i really like. as a met fan, i kinda dont mind alou for 1 yr and 8.5mill. i guess glavine for 1 yr and 10.5mill is palatable, given the meche contract. el duque for 2 yrs @ 12mill seems a bargain.its not so much the money, its the years involved. i mean, meche for 5 yrs?

Agreed. Every day it's like these guys are trying to one-up each other on another stupid deal. Fun to watch.

If someone gives Jeff Suppan a 5 year deal for 12 million, I'll wet myself laughing.

That's much better than Jason Marquis at 3 yr/$21M

Jason Marquis is a good hitter. Maybe the Cubs are planning on converting him to second base.

 

[DCThunder]

Jose Vidro told the Washington Post that he has been dealt to the Mariners, reportedly for Chris Snelling and Emiliano Fruto.Can't someone fire Bill Bavasi before he does anymore damage? The Mariners are taking on $12 million of the $16 million Vidro is owed over the next two years, which would be reasonable if Vidro still happened to be a quality defensive second baseman. As is, the Mariners figure to DH him and keep Jose Lopez at second base. Vidro's OPS has dropped four straight seasons, falling to 763 in 2005 and 744 last season. Also, he hasn't remained healthy enough to get 500 at-bats since 2003. Snelling certainly had a realistic chance of being a better DH, and Fruto has a fair amount of upside as either a starter or a reliever. Amazingly enough, this is another winner for Nats GM Jim Bowden. Dec. 13 - 8:10 pm et

I actually disagree with Rotoworld here. I dont think Snelling is much of anything and Vidro can still be a solid hitter. And as a DH he might be able to stay healthy. I dont know much about Fruto. I think this is a good deal for Seattle.

The important part of this deal is the Nats dumping $12 M of Vidro's deal. The Nats are going to easily lose 100 games in 2007, so saving money and young arms are most important.

 

[Statorama]

Jose Vidro told the Washington Post that he has been dealt to the Mariners, reportedly for Chris Snelling and Emiliano Fruto.Can't someone fire Bill Bavasi before he does anymore damage? The Mariners are taking on $12 million of the $16 million Vidro is owed over the next two years, which would be reasonable if Vidro still happened to be a quality defensive second baseman. As is, the Mariners figure to DH him and keep Jose Lopez at second base. Vidro's OPS has dropped four straight seasons, falling to 763 in 2005 and 744 last season. Also, he hasn't remained healthy enough to get 500 at-bats since 2003. Snelling certainly had a realistic chance of being a better DH, and Fruto has a fair amount of upside as either a starter or a reliever. Amazingly enough, this is another winner for Nats GM Jim Bowden. Dec. 13 - 8:10 pm et

I actually disagree with Rotoworld here. I dont think Snelling is much of anything and Vidro can still be a solid hitter. And as a DH he might be able to stay healthy. I dont know much about Fruto. I think this is a good deal for Seattle.

The important part of this deal is the Nats dumping $12 M of Vidro's deal. The Nats are going to easily lose 100 games in 2007, so saving money and young arms are most important.

Agreed. Great move to dump the majority of that contract.

 

[cubd8]

i need to reiterate that this will go down in history as the worst free agent class/signings in history.there's not 1 contract i really like. as a met fan, i kinda dont mind alou for 1 yr and 8.5mill. i guess glavine for 1 yr and 10.5mill is palatable, given the meche contract. el duque for 2 yrs @ 12mill seems a bargain.its not so much the money, its the years involved. i mean, meche for 5 yrs?

Agreed. Every day it's like these guys are trying to one-up each other on another stupid deal. Fun to watch.

If someone gives Jeff Suppan a 5 year deal for 12 million, I'll wet myself laughing.

That's much better than Jason Marquis at 3 yr/$21M

Suppan has been a pretty solid pitcher, sort of Ted Lilly like, but with more wins, I believe. I wouldn't be shocked if he got a deal worth more than $12 million. I'm not sure though what he's watiing for as teams are spending $11 million on Gil Meche.

 

[Sammy3469]

Well we now know how Zumaya hurt his wrist. It's certainly better from a baseball point of view than hurting it pitching and a little less embarssing than hurting it in some other manner

 

[MrPhoenix]

***CAPELLA ALERT***

Rays and Iwamura close to deal

Rays and Rangers will play 3-game series in Kissimmee

 

[Smack Tripper]

Why are we relegated to this ghetto thread daddy? Why isn't there one political thread, one thread about your wife, one thread about your job that encompasses every different story. Baseball keeps this place hummin in the summer time but we have to be in one crazy thread in the winter. How many dang werewolf threads are there?

 

[MrPhoenix]

Why are we relegated to this ghetto thread daddy? Why isn't there one political thread, one thread about your wife, one thread about your job that encompasses every different story. Baseball keeps this place hummin in the summer time but we have to be in one crazy thread in the winter. How many dang werewolf threads are there?

I dunno, but there are definitely not enough Gears of War threads here.

 

[RKMoney]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

I think it is fine to do so to get a ballpark value figure for what they are paying Matsuzaka per year...All other accounting for the deal (i.e. tax implications, luxury tax, offsetting profit in John Henry's portfolio, expected revenue generated by the signing, etc) certainly does mitigate the signing, but we never take that into account...We don't look at A-Rod's salary and factor in how much $$ he "makes" for the Yankees, we just report an annual salary #...

ARod has nothing to do with Matusaka. And he certainly has nothing to do with the Sox giving 51 million to Seibu.Hypothetical for you. What if, in the next 5 years the Sox generate 40 million dollars in added revenue from the Japanese market because of this signing. Will you take that out of the equation as to what they are paying Matsuzaka? And then deem that they paid only 65 million for 6 years?Because in effect, that is what they are doing with the 51 million.

do you discount the ARod contract by the added revenue the Yankees bring in by having him on the roster?

Please tell me how much revenue the Yankees got when Arod came aboard. I would gamble that he didn't bring any extra value / revenue, it's not as if they didn't have bigger home town stars or won championships or couldn't crack 3 million in attendance until he came. If you want to talk about the Yankees adding revenue with a signing look no further than Matsui.

 

[RKMoney]

what a waste if he turns out to be another Irabu.

not if they pull in mad money in overseas market it won't. Winning or losing takes a back seat here.