pownedShtick? What would an alias named "'Daisuke Matsuzaka" know about shtick?
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*** OFFICIAL *** Baseball Offseason Moves (2006-07)... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter posty
- Start date
Why do Red Sox fans keep comparing their poor little cheap ball club with the Yankees as if nobody else played in the league? Their team spends so much more money than ALL OTHER TEAMS EXCEPT ONE it's laughable to hear Sux fans cry and moan about how much more the Yankees spend. Boo Hoo
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Actually Daddy, it looks like the A-Rod has been quite the straw in the yankees drink. Can you say their first 2 4 million drawing season and successive broken attendance records in each year he was on the team. Maybe he DOES pay for himself!
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
AROD does bring extra value to the Yankees in that they use him to speak to their corporate sponsors and make appearances. You don't think about things like that but keeping their clients happy certainly adds to the bottom line.
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
Which shouldn't be forgotten when they are moving to the NEW Yankee stadium complete with a bazzillion corporate boxes and $250 dollar box seats.
from sportsguy / mailbag....
Q: You have NO idea how much you will hate J.D. Drew.
--Dave Geeting, St. Louis
SG: Uh-oh, looks like we're entering the "If you're a Red Sox fan, you're about to be in a terrible mood reading all these J.D. Drew e-mails" portion of the mailbag. You knew it was coming. Just humor me.
Q: I just wanted to congratulate you on your team becoming the new Mets. You know, the team that overspends on guys who sound good on paper, but who will totally flop under the pressure of their ridiculous contracts and the city's overbearing media. I'm sure Drew and Lugo will be very happy on their new teams in a year or two when the Sox have to dump their stupid contracts for 30 cents on the dollar.
--Ben Teaford. Rocky Hill, Conn.
SG: (Punching myself in the face.)
Q: As a Dodgers fan, I was upset when I heard Drew opted out. Then I remembered how much money he was giving up and thought he was crazy -- after all, no one would pay $11 million a year for a corner outfielder who hits .280 with 20 HRs and looks like he doesn't care. Not once in his Dodger tenure do I remember going, "Wow. J.D. Drew really came up big for us last night." Good riddance.
--Josh, Santa Barbara, Calif.
SG: (Slamming my hand in a door.)
Q: The day Drew opted out of his Dodger contract was like the feeling I had on Christmas morning when I was 7 and got my first pair of skates … an utterly joyous occasion. This man has no passion or love for the game of baseball and plays the game accordingly. It is fitting that he will be playing for Boston fans who will hate this guy with a passion by the second spring training game. As a fan of the game, I am sad that any other fans have to watch this guy -- except maybe Yankee fans; I was hoping Steinbrenner would overpay him. Good luck, this is your worst nightmare!
--Tom Rowe, Long Beach, Calif.
SG: (Repeatedly ramming my body into my Christmas tree.)
Q: Just a stellar quote from Epstein about the J.D. Drew signing: "Virtually every player is a collection of strengths and weaknesses." Equivalent to when your buddy has a new girlfriend, and you know she's nuts, and he knows she's nuts, and she does something crazy like ask him for his e-mail password "just to prove that he trusts her," and the buddy tries to laugh it off by saying "but all women are a little crazy, you know, right?" It's never a good sign when the fans of the team that a player left are happier than the fans of the team that that player signed with.
--Sam, Los Angeles
SG: (Ramming a candy cane into my eye.)
Q: I am a lifelong Dodgers fan and having one of the greatest laughs of my life watching the Red Sox sign J.D. Drew. I couldn't believe the Dodgers gave that bum $11 million a year to play sucky, injury-plagued, emotionless baseball. I was even more stunned when he OPTED OUT of that goldmine contract, although very happy because he was a joke. So, you can only imagine once I heard that he was getting $14 million a year from another team, I laughed my ### off! What was your thought process during this whole scenario?
--David S., Toledo, Ohio
SG: Thanks for asking. I haven't been this horrified by a big move from a Boston team since the Celtics traded for Vin Baker four summers ago. The Sox just signed someone who, by all accounts, plays without any semblance of passion or intensity. He's the exact type of player that Boston fans have always hated. We have a century-long track record of proving this point. That's the part I don't get. It's not like Theo is from France -- he's from freaking Brookline. He should have known. Arrrrrrrrrgh. One last e-mail about Drew …
Q: What did Bono say to the Yankees fan after hearing about the J.D. Drew and Julio Lugo signings?
"Well, tonight thank God it's them instead of you!!!!!"
--Michael Rupp, Fairfield, Conn.
Q: You have NO idea how much you will hate J.D. Drew.
--Dave Geeting, St. Louis
SG: Uh-oh, looks like we're entering the "If you're a Red Sox fan, you're about to be in a terrible mood reading all these J.D. Drew e-mails" portion of the mailbag. You knew it was coming. Just humor me.
Q: I just wanted to congratulate you on your team becoming the new Mets. You know, the team that overspends on guys who sound good on paper, but who will totally flop under the pressure of their ridiculous contracts and the city's overbearing media. I'm sure Drew and Lugo will be very happy on their new teams in a year or two when the Sox have to dump their stupid contracts for 30 cents on the dollar.
--Ben Teaford. Rocky Hill, Conn.
SG: (Punching myself in the face.)
Q: As a Dodgers fan, I was upset when I heard Drew opted out. Then I remembered how much money he was giving up and thought he was crazy -- after all, no one would pay $11 million a year for a corner outfielder who hits .280 with 20 HRs and looks like he doesn't care. Not once in his Dodger tenure do I remember going, "Wow. J.D. Drew really came up big for us last night." Good riddance.
--Josh, Santa Barbara, Calif.
SG: (Slamming my hand in a door.)
Q: The day Drew opted out of his Dodger contract was like the feeling I had on Christmas morning when I was 7 and got my first pair of skates … an utterly joyous occasion. This man has no passion or love for the game of baseball and plays the game accordingly. It is fitting that he will be playing for Boston fans who will hate this guy with a passion by the second spring training game. As a fan of the game, I am sad that any other fans have to watch this guy -- except maybe Yankee fans; I was hoping Steinbrenner would overpay him. Good luck, this is your worst nightmare!
--Tom Rowe, Long Beach, Calif.
SG: (Repeatedly ramming my body into my Christmas tree.)
Q: Just a stellar quote from Epstein about the J.D. Drew signing: "Virtually every player is a collection of strengths and weaknesses." Equivalent to when your buddy has a new girlfriend, and you know she's nuts, and he knows she's nuts, and she does something crazy like ask him for his e-mail password "just to prove that he trusts her," and the buddy tries to laugh it off by saying "but all women are a little crazy, you know, right?" It's never a good sign when the fans of the team that a player left are happier than the fans of the team that that player signed with.
--Sam, Los Angeles
SG: (Ramming a candy cane into my eye.)
Q: I am a lifelong Dodgers fan and having one of the greatest laughs of my life watching the Red Sox sign J.D. Drew. I couldn't believe the Dodgers gave that bum $11 million a year to play sucky, injury-plagued, emotionless baseball. I was even more stunned when he OPTED OUT of that goldmine contract, although very happy because he was a joke. So, you can only imagine once I heard that he was getting $14 million a year from another team, I laughed my ### off! What was your thought process during this whole scenario?
--David S., Toledo, Ohio
SG: Thanks for asking. I haven't been this horrified by a big move from a Boston team since the Celtics traded for Vin Baker four summers ago. The Sox just signed someone who, by all accounts, plays without any semblance of passion or intensity. He's the exact type of player that Boston fans have always hated. We have a century-long track record of proving this point. That's the part I don't get. It's not like Theo is from France -- he's from freaking Brookline. He should have known. Arrrrrrrrrgh. One last e-mail about Drew …
Q: What did Bono say to the Yankees fan after hearing about the J.D. Drew and Julio Lugo signings?
"Well, tonight thank God it's them instead of you!!!!!"
--Michael Rupp, Fairfield, Conn.
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Really? I would like to see some numbers/stats to back this up, I would gamble that since most people dislike AROD he would fall pretty much towards the bottom of the organizations additional revenue that they pull in.Jefferson the Caregiver said:
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the moops
Footballguy
Dodger fans must be dumb. JD Drew led his team in the following categories last year. HR's, RBI, BBs, OBP, OPS, 2Bs. He was second in PAs, games, hits, SLG, runs, total bases.Yea, I would be so happy if my team got rid of a guy who did all that...and plays right field better than anyone else.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
You do realize they've drawn 4 million people the last 2 years. I think people need some perspective...the middle of the last decade they were having trouble drawing 2 million fans...heck in 94 and 95 they were below the league average...imagine that. Maybe winning and spending does have something to do with their success.
the moops
Footballguy
I think that ARod does bring in more fans. Well, maybe not from here on out, considering how you tool Yankee fans manage to rip on the one of the greatest ballplayers of all time...anyway.Red Sox sell out there tiny stadium easily. They build new seats, they fill those. They charge more money, people dont even blink. Hence the need to go to a different market.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
So, in all the Yankees/Red Sox #####ing, no one has pointed out that the 2nd place in the AL East Toronto Blue Jays are resigning Vernon Wells. It's being reported in various places that he WILL sign the 7 year, 126 million dollar extension. I can't say that I'm not pumped about this (and a bit suprised). Having Overbay, Wells, Rios, Thomas and Glaus in the middle of the batting order is going to be pretty sick.
Reed Johnson or Alex Rios may end up being moved for pitching now, though, hopefully they find a way to get a 3rd starter without giving up Rios.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6274400
http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/R...tsBaseball/home
Reed Johnson or Alex Rios may end up being moved for pitching now, though, hopefully they find a way to get a 3rd starter without giving up Rios.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6274400
http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/R...tsBaseball/home
whoknew
Footballguy
Closer for Bos?
the moops
Footballguy
Doubt it. They needed a 7th/8th inning set-up man.Still closerless.Read today that the Dodgers are still interested in Manny. Kemp and Penny were offered apparently. Sox want Broxton (I imagine to become their closer). Guess the whole Manny thing hasn't dide down quite yet.
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
I don't think so but that's definately a good addition to the bullpen.
Of course, again, I don't see how drawing 4 million is a result of ARod and again, Matsui is a revenue producing machine. They started to break 3 million when they began to win championships that that leap had nothing to do with AROD who wasn't there so jumping to 4 million had little if anything to do with AROD.You do realize they've drawn 4 million people the last 2 years. I think people need some perspective...the middle of the last decade they were having trouble drawing 2 million fans...heck in 94 and 95 they were below the league average...imagine that. Maybe winning and spending does have something to do with their success.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
You would lose.
Please prove me wrong then. His cost of salary > value he's added or pulled into the Yankees.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
It's rumoured that the Jays might offer Alex Rios and a prospect for Brad Penny.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
No one's arguing that ARod's salary is paid for, only that if Boston fans are going to discount the $51M paid to talk to DMatsuzuka as "market money" then the Yanks should be able to consider some of ARod's deal as the same.And it's impossible to prove an exact dollar amount is directly a reflection of the aquisition of a certain player.
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the moops
Footballguy
I'd rather have Rios and a prospect.The Jays don't need another injury prone so-so pitcher on their staff.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I don't remember where I read it, but a study was done several years ago to calculate the value of players relative to their own market. Derek Jeter in NY was "worth" something like $25 million per year in extra attendance, added revenue, ability on-field which translates to more revenue and blah blah so on. He would be worth far less in a place like Seattle or Milwaukee, which makes sense.
I'd wager that there aren't many players who are signed for big money if the team isn't going to reap financial rewards out of it. Not many owners (zero) just want to win for the sake of winning while disregarding the bottom line.
And if it's such an outright automatic that Matsuzaka will easily bring back the $51 million over the life of the contract, why weren't others willing to go that high? Is it that he'll only make that money back if he pitches in Boston? Obviously that's not it. Is it just that the Red Sox front office is SO much smarter than everyone else? Nope, that's probably not likely either.
What it likely is, is that the Red Sox wanted a premium talent to compete on-field and were willing to "Yankee" their way to it. There's nothing wrong about it, and you guys don't have to defend it so much...we Yankee fans know all about what that's like, so don't sweat it.
ETA: Don't misunderstand the first paragraph. Jeter doesn't bring in $25 million more than another player would. Just that was what his determined "value" was to the Yankees, so paying him $18 million per was considered a bargain.
I'd wager that there aren't many players who are signed for big money if the team isn't going to reap financial rewards out of it. Not many owners (zero) just want to win for the sake of winning while disregarding the bottom line.
And if it's such an outright automatic that Matsuzaka will easily bring back the $51 million over the life of the contract, why weren't others willing to go that high? Is it that he'll only make that money back if he pitches in Boston? Obviously that's not it. Is it just that the Red Sox front office is SO much smarter than everyone else? Nope, that's probably not likely either.
What it likely is, is that the Red Sox wanted a premium talent to compete on-field and were willing to "Yankee" their way to it. There's nothing wrong about it, and you guys don't have to defend it so much...we Yankee fans know all about what that's like, so don't sweat it.
ETA: Don't misunderstand the first paragraph. Jeter doesn't bring in $25 million more than another player would. Just that was what his determined "value" was to the Yankees, so paying him $18 million per was considered a bargain.
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Northern Voice
Footballguy
Yeah, I don't want to see Rios traded period. He was an all-star this season and IMO is a 5 tool player who hasn't tapped his full potential yet... he could quite easily be as good or better than Vernon Wells. Ken Rosenthal was just on Sportsnet up here saying one GM told him the surest thing of this years MLB offseason was that Wells would be traded. He also said he believes he could have gotten 10 years, 200 million dollars on the open market after this season and that in fact, he is accepting less to stay in Toronto.A lot of Jays fans are really high on Adam Lind (2006 Eastern League MVP) but he's the one I want to see moved for pitching (along with Dustin McGowan/Jeremy Accardo/Francisco Rosario or one of the other Jays top pitching prospects... ) I'm not sure what type of pitcher that would get you though.
the moops
Footballguy
There is no doubt that the Sox wanted Matsuzaka mainly for his on field talent. They bid 51 million to assure themselves the exclusive rights. I doubt they figure they will make all the 51 million back, but they can get enough back to make his contract below market value.
If he performs as expected, in this market, he is worth 15+ million a year. They got him for 9 million.
If he performs as expected, in this market, he is worth 15+ million a year. They got him for 9 million.
the moops
Footballguy
I like Vernon Wells, he is a fantastic centerfielder. He is not worth 10 years, 200 million dollars. That is ridiculous.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
I agree, I'm not sure he's worth 7/126 even is this market, but Rosenthal's belief was that Wells, because of his age, was going to be the guy who set the bar next season and that with himself, Andruw Jones and Torii Hunter all going on the market and him getting the highest of the 3, he would get a stupid offer from someone (Texas?). Also some talk that as the Jays player rep and an active member of the MLBPA, he should have tested the market for the benefit of others....
Northern Voice
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
Jones had a higher VORP in 2002, 2004, 2005. Wells in 2003, 2006. He is only one year older. I don't know. I think I would take my chances with Jones over Wells.
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
+ 51million for the posting fee.
RnR
Footballguy
Wells is a nice player, but 2006 was quite a spike from what he's been producing over the past few seasons. We'll see if it is the start of a trend or a career season soon enough. Give me Jones.
the moops
Footballguy
Well of course.I thought I made that clear in the post. They are paying him 9 million a year. Whether or not the entire 51 million gets tacked on, or whether it is much less due to added revenue...well, we will have to wait and see.The lowest estimates I have seen, were something in the vicinity of 3 million extra dollars in added revenue. If that is the case, his salary would be just over 14 million a year. Seems like a good deal, if his outstanding numbers translate.
Unlike Arod though RedSox can reap back a ton of loot from Asian markets. While you can see thousands of people in Asian countries wanting to watch RedSox baseball now (unlike before) I really don't see anyone in foreign countries wanting to pay to watch AROD. Matsui has made the Yankees a nice fortune but Arod? Again, I have never read anywhere or seen anything that has mentioned that his contract is worth every penny because they make more money by him on the team.
For once I agree with you here although wouldn't kick either out of bed so to speak. Either would be a sweet addition to any ball club.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
For what it's worth, if you watch the Peter Gammons piece (ESPN front page, click on Motion), he also believes that Wells would have pulled in the most money next offseason, had he gone to the market.RKMoney said:the moops said:For once I agree with you here although wouldn't kick either out of bed so to speak. Either would be a sweet addition to any ball club.
No matter how many times I read it or see it, this just doesn't compute.I've got a couple buddies that are sox fans and try as they might they can't explain it to their OWN satisfaction.the moops said:
Now I know i'm just a fan of a mid-market midwest team. And I know that these numbers are beyond my club's ability.
But Jeebus man, that's transfering a lot of Boston money to Japan without the benefit of slipping them some bad paper that could recoup even part of it.
I'm not saying this is a bad deal. As I said earlier, I've seen a few inflationary periods in baseball whereby contracts looked a lot better several years later.
But I gotta tell you, I think that Boston fans are financing the biggest sushi fest in history. And god help em if this guy turns out to be noodle arm in the next 5 yrs.
the moops
Footballguy
You think 3 million a year in added revenue is out of the question? The Mariners got that much a year without even trying. I can see people's reluctance in thinking that the Sox will recoup the entire 51 million, but to dismiss the idea of them at least getting as much as the other teams is foolish.One thing the Sox have done (besides toss around lots of cash and make some bad trades) is market the hell out of the team. Boston only has 1/2 million people. Yes, the people love their baseball, but this ownership group has done a fantastic job selling the Sox. They managed to sell a cra load of their stupid little red sox nation cards for like 15-100 bucks, depending on what "type of fan you really are".No matter how many times I read it or see it, this just doesn't compute.I've got a couple buddies that are sox fans and try as they might they can't explain it to their OWN satisfaction.the moops said:
Now I know i'm just a fan of a mid-market midwest team. And I know that these numbers are beyond my club's ability.
But Jeebus man, that's transfering a lot of Boston money to Japan without the benefit of slipping them some bad paper that could recoup even part of it.
I'm not saying this is a bad deal. As I said earlier, I've seen a few inflationary periods in baseball whereby contracts looked a lot better several years later.
But I gotta tell you, I think that Boston fans are financing the biggest sushi fest in history. And god help em if this guy turns out to be noodle arm in the next 5 yrs.
Now, to have a player like Matsuzaka, who is bigger than Matsui, coupled with an enormous transfer fee, it is only going to make him that much a bigger of a figure. My god, the man was covered on al-jazeera news when the signing went down.
I think everyone will be surprised to the extent at which they milk this thing for all that it can be. There is already talk of Red Sox exhibition games in Japan.
Well at 3 mill a year thats only 17 yrs to break even. Much better, thanks.You think 3 million a year in added revenue is out of the question? The Mariners got that much a year without even trying. I can see people's reluctance in thinking that the Sox will recoup the entire 51 million, but to dismiss the idea of them at least getting as much as the other teams is foolish.One thing the Sox have done (besides toss around lots of cash and make some bad trades) is market the hell out of the team. Boston only has 1/2 million people. Yes, the people love their baseball, but this ownership group has done a fantastic job selling the Sox. They managed to sell a cra load of their stupid little red sox nation cards for like 15-100 bucks, depending on what "type of fan you really are".No matter how many times I read it or see it, this just doesn't compute.I've got a couple buddies that are sox fans and try as they might they can't explain it to their OWN satisfaction.the moops said:
Now I know i'm just a fan of a mid-market midwest team. And I know that these numbers are beyond my club's ability.
But Jeebus man, that's transfering a lot of Boston money to Japan without the benefit of slipping them some bad paper that could recoup even part of it.
I'm not saying this is a bad deal. As I said earlier, I've seen a few inflationary periods in baseball whereby contracts looked a lot better several years later.
But I gotta tell you, I think that Boston fans are financing the biggest sushi fest in history. And god help em if this guy turns out to be noodle arm in the next 5 yrs.
Now, to have a player like Matsuzaka, who is bigger than Matsui, coupled with an enormous transfer fee, it is only going to make him that much a bigger of a figure. My god, the man was covered on al-jazeera news when the signing went down.
I think everyone will be surprised to the extent at which they milk this thing for all that it can be. There is already talk of Red Sox exhibition games in Japan.
As Far as the AL - Jazeera news quote goes............
That's funny and a good point, but god help the redsox fans if the Yanks start the
"Endorsed by the Al-Jazeera network" schtick. YIKES!!
I AM SO GLAD WE ARE NOT IN THE AL EAST!!!!
Another friend is a Baltimore native.
Poor *******. No Shot.Why can't this man take his son to see a game and fill him with hope?
This is why.
the moops
Footballguy
But they don't need to recoup the entire 51 million to make it a good deal.What do you think matsuzaka would have gotten if he was a free agent?Well at 3 mill a year thats only 17 yrs to break even. Much better, thanks.You think 3 million a year in added revenue is out of the question? The Mariners got that much a year without even trying. I can see people's reluctance in thinking that the Sox will recoup the entire 51 million, but to dismiss the idea of them at least getting as much as the other teams is foolish.One thing the Sox have done (besides toss around lots of cash and make some bad trades) is market the hell out of the team. Boston only has 1/2 million people. Yes, the people love their baseball, but this ownership group has done a fantastic job selling the Sox. They managed to sell a cra load of their stupid little red sox nation cards for like 15-100 bucks, depending on what "type of fan you really are".No matter how many times I read it or see it, this just doesn't compute.I've got a couple buddies that are sox fans and try as they might they can't explain it to their OWN satisfaction.the moops said:
Now I know i'm just a fan of a mid-market midwest team. And I know that these numbers are beyond my club's ability.
But Jeebus man, that's transfering a lot of Boston money to Japan without the benefit of slipping them some bad paper that could recoup even part of it.
I'm not saying this is a bad deal. As I said earlier, I've seen a few inflationary periods in baseball whereby contracts looked a lot better several years later.
But I gotta tell you, I think that Boston fans are financing the biggest sushi fest in history. And god help em if this guy turns out to be noodle arm in the next 5 yrs.
Now, to have a player like Matsuzaka, who is bigger than Matsui, coupled with an enormous transfer fee, it is only going to make him that much a bigger of a figure. My god, the man was covered on al-jazeera news when the signing went down.
I think everyone will be surprised to the extent at which they milk this thing for all that it can be. There is already talk of Red Sox exhibition games in Japan.
As Far as the AL - Jazeera news quote goes............
That's funny and a good point, but god help the redsox fans if the Yanks start the
"Endorsed by the Al-Jazeera network" schtick. YIKES!!
I AM SO GLAD WE ARE NOT IN THE AL EAST!!!!
Another friend is a Baltimore native.
Why can't this man take his son to see a game and fill him with hope?
This is why.
Considering Meche, Padilla, Marquis and other dreg got 11 million a year...it is quite conceiveable that Mats would get 14-16 million. If you subtract roughly 20 million from the posting fee, that meand they are out 31 million plus the 52 million contract. 6 years, 83 million...Little more than 15 million a year.
Why would you subtract it? Added value from Asia? Car salesman talk? Why?A big part of my point is this. People keep saying "If you ignore this hefty hunk of treasure we're sending to a bank in Japan, and just focus on the things I'm pointing at, it all makes sense".But they don't need to recoup the entire 51 million to make it a good deal.What do you think matsuzaka would have gotten if he was a free agent?Well at 3 mill a year thats only 17 yrs to break even. Much better, thanks.You think 3 million a year in added revenue is out of the question? The Mariners got that much a year without even trying. I can see people's reluctance in thinking that the Sox will recoup the entire 51 million, but to dismiss the idea of them at least getting as much as the other teams is foolish.One thing the Sox have done (besides toss around lots of cash and make some bad trades) is market the hell out of the team. Boston only has 1/2 million people. Yes, the people love their baseball, but this ownership group has done a fantastic job selling the Sox. They managed to sell a cra load of their stupid little red sox nation cards for like 15-100 bucks, depending on what "type of fan you really are".No matter how many times I read it or see it, this just doesn't compute.I've got a couple buddies that are sox fans and try as they might they can't explain it to their OWN satisfaction.the moops said:
Now I know i'm just a fan of a mid-market midwest team. And I know that these numbers are beyond my club's ability.
But Jeebus man, that's transfering a lot of Boston money to Japan without the benefit of slipping them some bad paper that could recoup even part of it.
I'm not saying this is a bad deal. As I said earlier, I've seen a few inflationary periods in baseball whereby contracts looked a lot better several years later.
But I gotta tell you, I think that Boston fans are financing the biggest sushi fest in history. And god help em if this guy turns out to be noodle arm in the next 5 yrs.
Now, to have a player like Matsuzaka, who is bigger than Matsui, coupled with an enormous transfer fee, it is only going to make him that much a bigger of a figure. My god, the man was covered on al-jazeera news when the signing went down.
I think everyone will be surprised to the extent at which they milk this thing for all that it can be. There is already talk of Red Sox exhibition games in Japan.
As Far as the AL - Jazeera news quote goes............
That's funny and a good point, but god help the redsox fans if the Yanks start the
"Endorsed by the Al-Jazeera network" schtick. YIKES!!
I AM SO GLAD WE ARE NOT IN THE AL EAST!!!!
Another friend is a Baltimore native.
Why can't this man take his son to see a game and fill him with hope?
This is why.
Considering Meche, Padilla, Marquis and other dreg got 11 million a year...it is quite conceiveable that Mats would get 14-16 million. If you subtract roughly 20 million from the posting fee, that meand they are out 31 million plus the 52 million contract. 6 years, 83 million...Little more than 15 million a year.
I'm starting to think a Toyota salesman is behind all this.
the moops
Footballguy
Huh? I am subtracting 20 million because I was estimating that as how much they can recoup of the posting fee in additional revenue from Japan. Would you like me to multiply that to the money they have already laid out?Why would you subtract it? Added value from Asia? Car salesman talk? Why?A big part of my point is this. People keep saying "If you ignore this hefty hunk of treasure we're sending to a bank in Japan, and just focus on the things I'm pointing at, it all makes sense".But they don't need to recoup the entire 51 million to make it a good deal.What do you think matsuzaka would have gotten if he was a free agent?Well at 3 mill a year thats only 17 yrs to break even. Much better, thanks.You think 3 million a year in added revenue is out of the question? The Mariners got that much a year without even trying. I can see people's reluctance in thinking that the Sox will recoup the entire 51 million, but to dismiss the idea of them at least getting as much as the other teams is foolish.One thing the Sox have done (besides toss around lots of cash and make some bad trades) is market the hell out of the team. Boston only has 1/2 million people. Yes, the people love their baseball, but this ownership group has done a fantastic job selling the Sox. They managed to sell a cra load of their stupid little red sox nation cards for like 15-100 bucks, depending on what "type of fan you really are".No matter how many times I read it or see it, this just doesn't compute.I've got a couple buddies that are sox fans and try as they might they can't explain it to their OWN satisfaction.the moops said:
Now I know i'm just a fan of a mid-market midwest team. And I know that these numbers are beyond my club's ability.
But Jeebus man, that's transfering a lot of Boston money to Japan without the benefit of slipping them some bad paper that could recoup even part of it.
I'm not saying this is a bad deal. As I said earlier, I've seen a few inflationary periods in baseball whereby contracts looked a lot better several years later.
But I gotta tell you, I think that Boston fans are financing the biggest sushi fest in history. And god help em if this guy turns out to be noodle arm in the next 5 yrs.
Now, to have a player like Matsuzaka, who is bigger than Matsui, coupled with an enormous transfer fee, it is only going to make him that much a bigger of a figure. My god, the man was covered on al-jazeera news when the signing went down.
I think everyone will be surprised to the extent at which they milk this thing for all that it can be. There is already talk of Red Sox exhibition games in Japan.
As Far as the AL - Jazeera news quote goes............
That's funny and a good point, but god help the redsox fans if the Yanks start the
"Endorsed by the Al-Jazeera network" schtick. YIKES!!
I AM SO GLAD WE ARE NOT IN THE AL EAST!!!!
Another friend is a Baltimore native.
Why can't this man take his son to see a game and fill him with hope?
This is why.
Considering Meche, Padilla, Marquis and other dreg got 11 million a year...it is quite conceiveable that Mats would get 14-16 million. If you subtract roughly 20 million from the posting fee, that meand they are out 31 million plus the 52 million contract. 6 years, 83 million...Little more than 15 million a year.
I'm starting to think a Toyota salesman is behind all this.
Just for fun, how many years do you "estimate" it will take you to recoup this money from Japan?Assuming this guy doesn't blow out his shoulder trying to justify all this.Huh? I am subtracting 20 million because I was estimating that as how much they can recoup of the posting fee in additional revenue from Japan. Would you like me to multiply that to the money they have already laid out?Why would you subtract it? Added value from Asia? Car salesman talk? Why?A big part of my point is this. People keep saying "If you ignore this hefty hunk of treasure we're sending to a bank in Japan, and just focus on the things I'm pointing at, it all makes sense".But they don't need to recoup the entire 51 million to make it a good deal.What do you think matsuzaka would have gotten if he was a free agent?Well at 3 mill a year thats only 17 yrs to break even. Much better, thanks.You think 3 million a year in added revenue is out of the question? The Mariners got that much a year without even trying. I can see people's reluctance in thinking that the Sox will recoup the entire 51 million, but to dismiss the idea of them at least getting as much as the other teams is foolish.One thing the Sox have done (besides toss around lots of cash and make some bad trades) is market the hell out of the team. Boston only has 1/2 million people. Yes, the people love their baseball, but this ownership group has done a fantastic job selling the Sox. They managed to sell a cra load of their stupid little red sox nation cards for like 15-100 bucks, depending on what "type of fan you really are".No matter how many times I read it or see it, this just doesn't compute.I've got a couple buddies that are sox fans and try as they might they can't explain it to their OWN satisfaction.the moops said:
Now I know i'm just a fan of a mid-market midwest team. And I know that these numbers are beyond my club's ability.
But Jeebus man, that's transfering a lot of Boston money to Japan without the benefit of slipping them some bad paper that could recoup even part of it.
I'm not saying this is a bad deal. As I said earlier, I've seen a few inflationary periods in baseball whereby contracts looked a lot better several years later.
But I gotta tell you, I think that Boston fans are financing the biggest sushi fest in history. And god help em if this guy turns out to be noodle arm in the next 5 yrs.
Now, to have a player like Matsuzaka, who is bigger than Matsui, coupled with an enormous transfer fee, it is only going to make him that much a bigger of a figure. My god, the man was covered on al-jazeera news when the signing went down.
I think everyone will be surprised to the extent at which they milk this thing for all that it can be. There is already talk of Red Sox exhibition games in Japan.
As Far as the AL - Jazeera news quote goes............
That's funny and a good point, but god help the redsox fans if the Yanks start the
"Endorsed by the Al-Jazeera network" schtick. YIKES!!
I AM SO GLAD WE ARE NOT IN THE AL EAST!!!!
Another friend is a Baltimore native.
Why can't this man take his son to see a game and fill him with hope?
This is why.
Considering Meche, Padilla, Marquis and other dreg got 11 million a year...it is quite conceiveable that Mats would get 14-16 million. If you subtract roughly 20 million from the posting fee, that meand they are out 31 million plus the 52 million contract. 6 years, 83 million...Little more than 15 million a year.
I'm starting to think a Toyota salesman is behind all this.
the moops
Footballguy
Man. OK, I'll try again.
From every estimate that has been done, Yanks and Mariners got about 3-4 million dollars in extra revenue that was directly attributed to Ichiro/Matsui.
Many folks think the Sox can extract more than that each year. Even if they only manage to get an additonal 3.5 million a year, it would take them 6 years (the life of Mats first contract) to recoup the 20 million I was talking about.
It is not difficult math. People can haggle over how much additional revenue will be extracted, but there is certainly additional monies coming to John Henry because of this deal.
Make sense?
From every estimate that has been done, Yanks and Mariners got about 3-4 million dollars in extra revenue that was directly attributed to Ichiro/Matsui.
Many folks think the Sox can extract more than that each year. Even if they only manage to get an additonal 3.5 million a year, it would take them 6 years (the life of Mats first contract) to recoup the 20 million I was talking about.
It is not difficult math. People can haggle over how much additional revenue will be extracted, but there is certainly additional monies coming to John Henry because of this deal.
Make sense?
Yeah, it makes sense. IF you think this guy will be an All-Star or even a difference maker for SIX years.That's a looong time to be atop the heap pitching pro ball.
It's been done. but not by many.
Witness the long term contracts signed by guys who HAVE pitched and been successful in the majors. Hampton, Brown , Et AL.
Mussina is probably the only pitcher in our time that has been worth it.
A majority of one.
the moops
Footballguy
Matsuzaka doesnt have to be an all star though. The minute they signed him, they opened up revenue streams. Now, of course if he completely blows, then yea, that is not good for the bottom dollar. But, just the fact that he is signed is going to help them gain some of that money back.Hampton and Brown sucked. However, teams need to sign these guys to long term deals, or they will be stuck with a rotation of 4/5 starters. And it is getting worse. Freakin Gil Meche gets a 5 year deal. You either need to lock up your young starters before they hit arbitration (Santana) or take gambles on unknown talen (Matsuzaka) or overpay for aging veterans (Brown).
I have to think Epstein is a much hated man in GM and ownership circles right now.
Agents all over the land are beating GM's over the head with this signing.
He's pushed the envelope past what any reasonable man would want to go.
What would be difficult to stomach for the rest of us in the next 6 yrs would be this;
Sox fans #####ing about the cost of tickets, tv, hats, jerseys, beer or anything else that would construe baseball earnings.
Also somebody kill Jimmy Fallon. Thank You.
Agents all over the land are beating GM's over the head with this signing.
He's pushed the envelope past what any reasonable man would want to go.
What would be difficult to stomach for the rest of us in the next 6 yrs would be this;
Sox fans #####ing about the cost of tickets, tv, hats, jerseys, beer or anything else that would construe baseball earnings.
Also somebody kill Jimmy Fallon. Thank You.
To the Red Sox they got Matsusaka for 6 years 102mill right? 17mill a year. He's 26 entering his prime. He easily gets 14+mill a year in the open market. Zito is going to get 15mill a year. With the added revenue expected from the Japanese market 17mill/year is not crazy. This was a great move by the Sox. I bet if the winning bid was 25million for the rights Boras would have drove the contract up so that is basically costs the team 15+mill/year anyway. The high bid just cost Matsusaka money not so much the bidding team.
I don't understand all those saying Wells should have waited until next offseason. He's getting 18mill/year now. Best case scenario is that he has a huge season and gets 20mill/year maybe next offseason. So you think it's smart to risk 126mill in order to get 14mill more? What are the odds Wells has an injury or a subpar season. I'd put it at 25-30%. The guy is not a lock. It probably took him 2 seconds to accept this deal.
I don't understand all those saying Wells should have waited until next offseason. He's getting 18mill/year now. Best case scenario is that he has a huge season and gets 20mill/year maybe next offseason. So you think it's smart to risk 126mill in order to get 14mill more? What are the odds Wells has an injury or a subpar season. I'd put it at 25-30%. The guy is not a lock. It probably took him 2 seconds to accept this deal.
whoknew
Footballguy
Another friend is a Baltimore native.
The Orioles don't compete because they are stupid.
