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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
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moleculo
Footballguy
I'm not sure it can't be done, but perhaps this can help paint a path forward for discussions. Try not to convince people that their deeply held beliefs are wrong and instead appeal to "where do we go from here?"
Maybe start off with a tacit agreement that the virus was made in a lab and therefore an antidote would also be made in a lab. Maybe take Fauci off the case - as great as he is, he's lost the message to a lot of people. Acknowledge that pro-maskers were wrong on a lot of things too, don't defend every misstep.
Thank you. That's potentially wonderful. But careful, that's not the approved narrative.
Interesting that 15 hours later, no one has commented on this at all.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I've posted about this same thought process multiple times, but this post I just came across says it so well, so I'll go ahead and repeat again. And, I know I'm preaching to the choir for most here, but if it helps sharing this to others, have at it:
Dr. Jeffrey Dietzenbach, an Iowa Clinic general surgeon, wrote the following post last week and his message is too good not to share.
"COVID observations from a general surgeon…
Full disclosure: this is my first Facebook post ever, I hope I’m doing this right! Also, I am not an expert on COVID-19 or infectious disease.
This pandemic has been long, difficult, polarizing, historical, exasperating, and confusing. I can complain about it… but not that much. I have had no loved ones or close friends who have become extremely sick or died from this virus. I personally have not contracted this virus. As a general surgeon, the only care I have had to administer to a COVID-positive patient is the occasional appendectomy or gallbladder removal. I’ve been lucky enough to not have to spend countless hours in the ICU managing ventilators and medical care. Those healthcare providers are the real heroes.
One thing that has really perplexed me throughout this whole pandemic, though, is the lack of humility. Namely, the lack of humility when it comes to expert opinion.
I like to travel. Do I get on the tarmac and inspect the mechanics of the plane or discuss the flight plan with the pilot or tower? Nope. I’m not an expert in that. I have the humility and faith that those people are experts and will get me where I need to be safely.
I like a nice yard. Do I tell my lawn care company how much nitrogen and weed-control to use? Nope. I don’t have the time to devote to learn about that. I’ll leave it up to the lawn care expert.
I hope I never get sued. Would I defend myself in court with a total lack of legal knowledge? Nope. I’ll leave that up to the legal experts.
When my car needs to be fixed, do I tell the mechanic how to repair it? Nope. I know nothing about auto repair.
Do I walk around talking about COVID-19 and vaccinations and posting constantly about it? Nope, I’m not an infectious disease doctor or a pulmonologist/critical care doctor.
I get it. Frustration about closing schools and businesses, social distancing, limiting travel, using masks, etc. is understandable. The benefit and philosophy behind some of these things are not black and white. The thing I don’t understand is this distrust of expert healthcare providers and lack of humility.
Biostatistics is not easy.
True research (not just looking through Google and social media) and reviewing data and studies and articles is not easy.
Believe me, as a General Surgery Program Director, we hold six journal clubs a year reviewing the most recent surgical literature. I have the humility to know that I am not a statistician and by no means an expert in this field.
You can find an “expert” on COVID-19 anywhere. Online, at work, at the dinner table, on MSN or Fox News, and especially on social media. I find it interesting that there are lots and lots of infectious disease specialists and pulmonologists across this planet and I don’t recall any of them suggesting anything that was counter to the most recent accepted best practices, based on the most updated information we had at that moment in time.
Yes, things change. The virus changes, data and statistics change, discoveries change and new information emerges. One thing that doesn’t change is the expertise of the scientists, infectious disease doctors and pulmonologist. I’m a doctor and I think I’m a pretty good one (one could even say an “expert” at surgery), but when it comes to my kids' health, I’m going to follow my pediatrician’s recommendations. When it comes to a vaccine, I’m going to follow the generally accepted recommendations by the EXPERTS.
And…when I start to see brown spot on my lawn, I’m calling my lawn care guy.
Ask yourself how many times you put your life at risk by humbly and faithfully putting your trust in a person. Eating at a restaurant, walking over a grate on the sidewalk, taking an Uber, or for God’s sake going on a carnival ride at the Iowa State Fair! This doesn’t make you a “sheeple”. This happens all the time, every day.
All I’m asking for is a little humility and trust, not in me or this post, but in experts."
Dr. Jeffrey Dietzenbach, an Iowa Clinic general surgeon, wrote the following post last week and his message is too good not to share.
"COVID observations from a general surgeon…
Full disclosure: this is my first Facebook post ever, I hope I’m doing this right! Also, I am not an expert on COVID-19 or infectious disease.
This pandemic has been long, difficult, polarizing, historical, exasperating, and confusing. I can complain about it… but not that much. I have had no loved ones or close friends who have become extremely sick or died from this virus. I personally have not contracted this virus. As a general surgeon, the only care I have had to administer to a COVID-positive patient is the occasional appendectomy or gallbladder removal. I’ve been lucky enough to not have to spend countless hours in the ICU managing ventilators and medical care. Those healthcare providers are the real heroes.
One thing that has really perplexed me throughout this whole pandemic, though, is the lack of humility. Namely, the lack of humility when it comes to expert opinion.
I like to travel. Do I get on the tarmac and inspect the mechanics of the plane or discuss the flight plan with the pilot or tower? Nope. I’m not an expert in that. I have the humility and faith that those people are experts and will get me where I need to be safely.
I like a nice yard. Do I tell my lawn care company how much nitrogen and weed-control to use? Nope. I don’t have the time to devote to learn about that. I’ll leave it up to the lawn care expert.
I hope I never get sued. Would I defend myself in court with a total lack of legal knowledge? Nope. I’ll leave that up to the legal experts.
When my car needs to be fixed, do I tell the mechanic how to repair it? Nope. I know nothing about auto repair.
Do I walk around talking about COVID-19 and vaccinations and posting constantly about it? Nope, I’m not an infectious disease doctor or a pulmonologist/critical care doctor.
I get it. Frustration about closing schools and businesses, social distancing, limiting travel, using masks, etc. is understandable. The benefit and philosophy behind some of these things are not black and white. The thing I don’t understand is this distrust of expert healthcare providers and lack of humility.
Biostatistics is not easy.
True research (not just looking through Google and social media) and reviewing data and studies and articles is not easy.
Believe me, as a General Surgery Program Director, we hold six journal clubs a year reviewing the most recent surgical literature. I have the humility to know that I am not a statistician and by no means an expert in this field.
You can find an “expert” on COVID-19 anywhere. Online, at work, at the dinner table, on MSN or Fox News, and especially on social media. I find it interesting that there are lots and lots of infectious disease specialists and pulmonologists across this planet and I don’t recall any of them suggesting anything that was counter to the most recent accepted best practices, based on the most updated information we had at that moment in time.
Yes, things change. The virus changes, data and statistics change, discoveries change and new information emerges. One thing that doesn’t change is the expertise of the scientists, infectious disease doctors and pulmonologist. I’m a doctor and I think I’m a pretty good one (one could even say an “expert” at surgery), but when it comes to my kids' health, I’m going to follow my pediatrician’s recommendations. When it comes to a vaccine, I’m going to follow the generally accepted recommendations by the EXPERTS.
And…when I start to see brown spot on my lawn, I’m calling my lawn care guy.
Ask yourself how many times you put your life at risk by humbly and faithfully putting your trust in a person. Eating at a restaurant, walking over a grate on the sidewalk, taking an Uber, or for God’s sake going on a carnival ride at the Iowa State Fair! This doesn’t make you a “sheeple”. This happens all the time, every day.
All I’m asking for is a little humility and trust, not in me or this post, but in experts."
ghostguy123
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If any of those things were politicized we'd have a lot of brown lawns and cars on the side of the road along with 5 plane crashes a day
I agree with this guy to am extent but if my car breaks down I'll bring it to the mechanic but I always research what the problem can possibly be. There's tons of threads on these forums asking for mechanical advice. If my lawn has a brown spot I may google and fix it myself. Nobody blindly follows the advice of others on everything. Some people like to do their own research.
When my daughter was dying in the hospital I didn't blindly follow the doctors in the NICU. The most important thing I learned during those times is YOU HAVE TO BE YOUR OWN HEALTH ADVOCATE. Ask questions, do research, don't be afraid to get second opinions! This is public health 101.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Yeah, but if 100 mechanics are all telling you the same thing, why do you think you still need to research it? And why would you listen to your gardener that is telling you it's something different that is wrong with your car when he's not a mechanic?
That's more like what is going on. This isn't one person giving recommendations. It's the entire field of infectious disease in unison.
That's where I think the disconnect is here.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
If 10 mechanics tell you the same thing do you keep researching? If 10 different doctors at 10 different hospital tell you the same thing do you keep researching? If 10 lawn experts tell you the same thing do you keep researching?
At what point will people realize their best option is one of these vaccines? What do people need to see and hear, and who do they need to hear it from, to believe they should get the vaccine?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
UOFI_316
Footballguy
This will never go away. A very conservative college buddy (dude has like 7 kids, so using protection is not his thing) posted what he thought was a "gotcha" screenshot and quote from CNN. It was something along the lines of "in regard to the Delta variant, the vaccine is very good at stopping severe hospitalization and deaths, but it is still spreading..." Of course his response is along the lines of "maybe all the vaccinated should stay home so we don't get it, natural immunity is better but they won't say that..." I have no idea how the religious are on the side of letting everyone get sick and if they die they die. I stopped going to a catholic school in 4th grade when a nun would publicly shame me on my cursive, but pretty sure letting people die due to a somewhat preventative disease is against their beliefs. 
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I know your went through hell with your daughter. My heart goes out to you and your entire family.
But this is not "public health 101." That coursework usually starts with basic epidemiology and statistical methods.
culdeus
Footballguy
This guy should have gotten more opinions.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/29/texas-caleb-wallace-anti-mask-protests-freedom-dies-covid-19
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/29/texas-caleb-wallace-anti-mask-protests-freedom-dies-covid-19
gianmarco
Footballguy
Leaves behind a wife and 3 kids with a 4th on the way. She needs a GoFundMe just to pay bills (currently up to $60K).
Just tragic. More and more of these popping up of people who keep denying the existence of the science that is before them if they just listen.
culdeus
Footballguy
belljr
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Meh. Try wearing an N95 mask all day + repeatedly donning/doffing/cleaning goggles, faceshield, gown and gloves. Healthcare workers didn’t sign up for this sh!t, and it’s largely preventable.
FTR, the evidence for all that PPE making a difference in infection transmission, above and beyond hand washing, is terrible. And patients experience all sorts of adverse consequences from being isolated.
beer 30
Footballguy
You know what else is inconvenient? Nevermind, tired of having this stupid conversation.
Highly underrated post
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This is such an obviously horrible idea.
The days before the shutdowns would be jam packed to the gills. So places like the grocery store that are not really vectors would become a problem.
Then during the week shutdown people would socialize like crazy and transmit like wildfire.
Not to mention you would have a massive increase of break ins in retail locations.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Phil Valentine
“Ah, but I'm sure their vaccine is perfectly safe. Don't worry about it.”
This is the last Tweet he sent out.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Would you be on board with hospitals turning away unvaccinated patients? Just curious.
If not, what is something realistic that you would like to see done?
Oh and as for grocery stores, they would still be open for pickups and deliveries. Same with other food places. It doesnt have to be a total blackout man.
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Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Oh, the treatments thing was baked in there, too. His preferred treatment is psilocybin.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Asking for some clarification.
Is Pfizer the only vaccine approved for a third dose at all? Meaning for immunocompromised now and others 8months out, starting September 20?
My wife and I are both Moderna. She has an autoimmune thing, and was wanting to schedule her booster dose ASAP if available. Otherwise, she and I would be in November for the third dose.
Are Moderna people getting third Moderna doses? Just out of luck for now? Getting Pfizer as third?
Is Pfizer the only vaccine approved for a third dose at all? Meaning for immunocompromised now and others 8months out, starting September 20?
My wife and I are both Moderna. She has an autoimmune thing, and was wanting to schedule her booster dose ASAP if available. Otherwise, she and I would be in November for the third dose.
Are Moderna people getting third Moderna doses? Just out of luck for now? Getting Pfizer as third?
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
Springfield long-term care outbreak infects 64, kills 5.
Began with unvaccinated employee
Im sure the families with loved ones who are sick or dead would like 5 minutes alone to thank the employee for standing up for their freedumz.
Began with unvaccinated employee
Im sure the families with loved ones who are sick or dead would like 5 minutes alone to thank the employee for standing up for their freedumz.
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Insoxicated
culdeus
Footballguy
[icon]
Insoxicated
Talk about a crazy way to go...
On life support from the worst pandemic in a hundred years, only to get finished off by a Category 4 hurricane and freak utility collapse.
File under unlikely... yet here we are
culdeus
Footballguy
There's no mobile icu nor medevac that can deal with this. Without sufficient power it's euthanasia like Katrina
Capella
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
They can only run for so long. One hospital already had issues and the largest in the area has taken damage. Will get a better idea in the am but there isn't really any "two month" plan.
Capella
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I used to think this would do it. Then I chatted with the neighbors. Wife and kids tested positive, wife was really sick - lost a ton of weight, etc. But still won't get the shot because "nobody is going to tell him what to do". If wives and kids getting sick doesn't change a person's mind, is $1K going to?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
He’s saying his neighbor, the husband, watched his wife and kids get sick with Covid but still won’t take the vaccine because he’s not going to have somebody telling him what to do.
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Insoxicated
We are talking about the folks that would lineup up outside Best Buy overnight to save $50 on a big screen TV.
beer 30
Footballguy
Here's a wild notion I heard on the radio today. New Orleans is essentially a bowl that sits below sea level. They have pumps throughout the area that have to move water out whenever they get a significant rainfall. After Katrina, the levee system was reworked and other hurricane mitigation processes where put in place. All those performed as designed...except nobody anticipated losing power. Some pumps run on diesel, some on electric. Without the pumps the bowl fills up.
We do a ton of contingency contracts for businesses that provide critical care or essential services. They won't be down long and yea two months is doable. Puerto Rico did it for about a year and still have areas that run on gen power and probably will for the foreseeable future. It can be done, it ain't cheap but it can be done.
beer 30
Footballguy
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