Doug B
Footballguy
The U.S.'s case-per-capita rate is roughly triple the UAE's. The U.S.'s COVID death-per-capita rate is over 12 times the UAE's.
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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
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offdee
Footballguy
So, what is the present thought that Covid is just a different form of the Flu? I know when it just about vanished in 20-21 that was the mindset of some....this is just the Flu on steroids packaged up into a different name.
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Doug B
Footballguy
PhillipPhoto
Footballguy
Thanks. Both my wife and myself have had different side effects and both of our doctors believe they were brought on by the vaccine which is why I was asking. Without being high risk I'd just say it's put both of us in position were I don't see either of us getting vaccinated again anytime soon and it's made me a little more sympathetic to those who don't want to get vaccinated for legitimate reasons.
Feel free to look at the facts he posted right after. The anti-vax crew played their part in making the US worse even though access to vaccines couldn’t have been better here.
Dickies
Footballguy
James Daulton
Footballguy
But but they're skinnier!!
Why can't anti-vaxxers just admit that if you were unlucky enough to get covid bad, being vaxxed would have improved your chances dramatically. And Omicron was so infectious that despite the low risk of getting serious covid, those anti-vaxxers who did massively clogged up our hospitals. And if the vaxx rate was say 25% less than it was, I have no doubt people who should have lived would have died from having to ration healthcare. We literally had no more room for patients.
Next hospitals will be criticized for not creating ICU beds out of thin air to combat this flu. All while we're losing tens of millions of dollars with a workforce that's being destroyed by overwork and angry anti-vaxxers.
To all those who got vaccinated I'd like to say thank you from a healthcare professional. You folks enabled us to keep our noses just above water.
For me onset of severe psoriasis in multiple areas.
Wife has it much worse. Diagnosed with Parsonage-Turner syndrome: https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2021211374
My bad. I need to stay out of here. Too many people jump in with questions like this to bring up an anti-vaccine front. I don’t want to say your doctor is wrong but there’s a lot more factors. That menstrual email blaming vaccines is possible but knowing that my wife also went through stretches of issues like that many times (pre COVID) and most often it’s been job stress related. The last couple years have been crazy stressful. Anyway, I read too much into your post as yet another attempt to bad mouth vaccines for that agenda.
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I never had psoriais before but fwiw my dermatologist told me he's had heavy increase of patients who have recently got vaxxed reporting outbreaks of psoriasis, ezcema and hair loss.
Of course no one can tell you for sure if any of these things are related to the vaccine. For me I'd read about case studies of it before my derm suggested that was the cause and what I never told the derm was my outbreaks started days after the initial vaccine and got worse with every shot thereafter(which is why I had looked up case studies). So I feel pretty good knowing how this started for me.
Hawks64
Footballguy
Interesting.....I have both PA and psoriasis, no increased plaques or arthritic pain post vaccine but definitely have had a significant increase in plaques post Omicron.
belljr
Footballguy
Lol.... I literally had this conversation with my wife about how i felt like I had less this year.
Not directed at you just the timing
I understand as I've been pro-vax, fighting the fight and anecdotal anti-vax stories are the worst.
If someone told me I know this guy whose got psoriais and his wife got this really painful thing in her arm that would no go away and it's all because of the vaccine I'd say get that crap out of here. Then it happens to you and it's not anecdotal anymore.
I still continue to believe vaccinations work for most people and it's not my desire to dissuade people from being vaccinated. But I wanted to know if other people had side effects and this has made me listen a little more to people who have legitimate reasons for not wanting to be vaccinated.
Maggot Brain
Footballguy
Small studies suggest over-the-counter antihistamines can relieve long COVID symptoms
What I thought was a key excerpt:
What I thought was a key excerpt:
-fish-
Footballguy
This isn't all that unusual, but it's also probably not a "side effect" in the traditional sense. Herpes zoster flares up when the immune system is under stress, so exposing your body to a new virus can easily reactivate the varicella-zoster virus. They're related events, but it isn't necessarily a causal relationship.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I dont really understand your post. I thought baymen said that this happened after pfizer vaccine.
Pfizer vaccine is not exposing your body to a new virus.
If you are arguing it is tantamount to exposing your body to a new virus and doing such a thing reactivates varicella-zoster, then it absolutely is a side effect in the traditional sense.
gianmarco
Footballguy
This is not to say that the experience some people posting here have had isn't legitimate. It's certainly possible.
However, there's a reason why anecdotal stories aren't evidence, even when we hear about a few of them.
An example is the original attempts to link autism with the MMR vaccine. There have been countless studies and countless hours devoted to searching for any link between the two and there simply isn't. Yet, some parents still swear that it did happen to them.
The issue is when looking at small scale incidents compared to large populations. Autism typically is seen and diagnosed around 12 months of life, with the common range between 12-18 months. The MMR vaccine is given between 12-15 months of life. With that overlap, when 1 in 44 kids is diagnosed with autism, there is going to be a significant number of new diagnoses of autism that happen shortly after getting that MMR vaccine.
To make up some numbers that might illustrate this better, let's say 100,000 kids get diagnosed with autism this year. If most of these kids are being diagnosed in the 12-18 month range, then it's over 500 kids/day in that age range. A decent number of those days will happen within a few days to a few weeks of getting their MMR vaccine. So, for those parents, it will absolutely look like the vaccine could have caused the onset of autism symptoms. How could it not? Junior was fine, got the vaccine, then started with symptoms shortly afterwards. You get parents talking about it, seeing and hearing the same thing happen to so many others, and it has to be some link. And it gets difficult to convince some parents otherwise.
Well, the same is bound to happen with the Covid vaccine. There are going to be lots of new illnesses and diagnoses that were going to happen regardless of Covid or the vaccines. Now you take millions of people, you give them all a vaccine over the course of a year, literally 100s of millions of doses, and there are going to be people that develop a new illness shortly after getting the vaccine. It doesn't mean it was caused by the vaccine even if it seems to have happened to a significant number of people.
It becomes significant when we start seeing a lot more of a certain disease or onset of symptoms than would otherwise be expected. And that takes epidemiological studies to help figure out, especially at such a large scale.
These things are looked for. It's how the increased incidence of myocarditis in teenage boys was found after getting the vaccine. But I caution anyone that either personally or has someone they know have a new illness or new symptoms or worsening of an existing illness to blame it on the vaccine simply because the timing for things that were going to happen anyway will make it look like a LOT of people had a side effect from the vaccine when there's really no relationship whatsoever.
However, there's a reason why anecdotal stories aren't evidence, even when we hear about a few of them.
An example is the original attempts to link autism with the MMR vaccine. There have been countless studies and countless hours devoted to searching for any link between the two and there simply isn't. Yet, some parents still swear that it did happen to them.
The issue is when looking at small scale incidents compared to large populations. Autism typically is seen and diagnosed around 12 months of life, with the common range between 12-18 months. The MMR vaccine is given between 12-15 months of life. With that overlap, when 1 in 44 kids is diagnosed with autism, there is going to be a significant number of new diagnoses of autism that happen shortly after getting that MMR vaccine.
To make up some numbers that might illustrate this better, let's say 100,000 kids get diagnosed with autism this year. If most of these kids are being diagnosed in the 12-18 month range, then it's over 500 kids/day in that age range. A decent number of those days will happen within a few days to a few weeks of getting their MMR vaccine. So, for those parents, it will absolutely look like the vaccine could have caused the onset of autism symptoms. How could it not? Junior was fine, got the vaccine, then started with symptoms shortly afterwards. You get parents talking about it, seeing and hearing the same thing happen to so many others, and it has to be some link. And it gets difficult to convince some parents otherwise.
Well, the same is bound to happen with the Covid vaccine. There are going to be lots of new illnesses and diagnoses that were going to happen regardless of Covid or the vaccines. Now you take millions of people, you give them all a vaccine over the course of a year, literally 100s of millions of doses, and there are going to be people that develop a new illness shortly after getting the vaccine. It doesn't mean it was caused by the vaccine even if it seems to have happened to a significant number of people.
It becomes significant when we start seeing a lot more of a certain disease or onset of symptoms than would otherwise be expected. And that takes epidemiological studies to help figure out, especially at such a large scale.
These things are looked for. It's how the increased incidence of myocarditis in teenage boys was found after getting the vaccine. But I caution anyone that either personally or has someone they know have a new illness or new symptoms or worsening of an existing illness to blame it on the vaccine simply because the timing for things that were going to happen anyway will make it look like a LOT of people had a side effect from the vaccine when there's really no relationship whatsoever.
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Dickies
Footballguy
Yea, when you’re administering billions of doses of the vaccine it stands to reason that negative health events are going to randomly coincide with some vaccinations.
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Insoxicated
They're the same in the same way Jeep Wrangler is the same as a Lamborghini. They both have four wheels, but are completely different types of vehicles.
One is influenza virus, one is a coronavirus. It's not possible to confuse the two, and anyone implying as such apparently hasn't passed grade school science class.
Not that ignorant people are BAD people, necessarily. They just are to be ignored on any topics of substance as their opinion is not based in reality and therefore worthless.
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Insoxicated
No thanks.
With the dramatically higher rates of long term issues in natural infection, I'll stick with not getting it until all that's understood and sorted out.
If you want to know more about the latest research on the neurological consequences of COVID-19, you should register for this free 2-day virtual event, the 20th Annual Mild Cognitive Impairment Symposium.
The first session on Saturday, Feb 26, from 10:40 am to 12:30 pm features 5 experts on the neurological complications of infections such as HIV and now COVID-19. There is a 20-minute Q&A at the end of the session.
I also recommend the 10:15 keynote address by Ron Petersen of Mayo, MN, on the evolution of the mild cognitive impairment concept.
The first session on Saturday, Feb 26, from 10:40 am to 12:30 pm features 5 experts on the neurological complications of infections such as HIV and now COVID-19. There is a 20-minute Q&A at the end of the session.
I also recommend the 10:15 keynote address by Ron Petersen of Mayo, MN, on the evolution of the mild cognitive impairment concept.
Doug B
Footballguy
Almost everything mentioned in recent posts as vaccine side effects -- psoriasis, eczema, Parsonage-Turner syndrome, etc. -- are often follow-on effects from generalized immune system stimulation.
IOW, it's likely not anything specific to the mRNA vaccines causing the side effects. Any heavy immune response can and sometimes do trigger the same effects. Other types of vaccinations. Major viral infections. Wound sepsis. And so on.
Our immune systems can at once be our best friend and our worst enemy.
IOW, it's likely not anything specific to the mRNA vaccines causing the side effects. Any heavy immune response can and sometimes do trigger the same effects. Other types of vaccinations. Major viral infections. Wound sepsis. And so on.
Our immune systems can at once be our best friend and our worst enemy.
I developed dermatographia 3 weeks after my Moderna booster. Shots 1 and 2 were also Moderna. Now 3 months later, it's still there but less severe. It was never itchy, but the ability to draw art on my arm made me consider selling photos of it as a NFT. The dermatologist said unlikely that it's related, but I'm not convinced.
Example of dermatographia: https://images.app.goo.gl/X6rpvdm54kuCcMoj9
So? I dont understand the need to clarify whether it was the mRNA causing the side effects or the bodies immune response.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Because there is a difference between an adverse impact caused uniquely by a specific vaccine or formula, versus what a general immune response to any immune system stimuli would be.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Semantic nitpick: Just because it happened to you doesn't mean it's not still anecdotal. I'm guessing the term you were looking for was something like "not second-hand". The only thing that would make it non-anecdotal is if researchers are able to demonstrate that psoriasis occurs as a side effect in a statistically significant manner.
Anyway, I take your larger point.
jamny
Footballguy
That's not the point of the article. No one is saying to go out and get it on purpose.No thanks.
With the dramatically higher rates of long term issues in natural infection, I'll stick with not getting it until all that's understood and sorted out.
In fact, it even says in the article "It would be reckless to ever recommend someone get purposely infected with Covid."
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Insoxicated
TMK pretty much every side effect of the vaccine is more frequent and more severe with natural infection.
People who remain fixated on attacking vaccines for having less-frequent and less-severe side effects than infection-acquired immunization is a bizarre hill to want to be king of.... but hey, different strokes.
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Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
The rate of multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) after COVID-19 vaccination is only 1 in 1 million, compared with 200 in 1 million in unvaccinated children. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22)00028-1/fulltext
-fish-
Footballguy
Pandemic of 1889 ("Russian Flu") may have been a coronavirus and not a flu. One of the symptoms was loss of smell and taste. If true, we may be able to learn more about the multiple peaks and the way the pandemic ended.
The Commish
Footballguy
Primarily because the body has no way of knowing (or caring really) how the antigen is introduced to the body. The bodily reaction is what it is to the antigen regardless of how the antigen is introduced. Saying, "I got a severe case of psoriasis because of the vaccine" is inaccurate. You got a severe case of psoriasis because your immune system reacted to the antigen and your psoriasis is a side effect of that reaction.
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Exactly. Unfortunately, in this TikTok world, people don’t understand this and that one case becomes the rallying cry.
Sleestak
Footballguy
CDC now recommending young males wait 8 weeks between shots 1 & 2 of Pfizer or Moderna to reduce myocarditis risk.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/23/cdc-says-waiting-longer-between-pfizer-moderna-doses-may-reduce-myocarditis-risk.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/23/cdc-says-waiting-longer-between-pfizer-moderna-doses-may-reduce-myocarditis-risk.html
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Doug B
Footballguy
I had read about this in the past and wondered if there any human artifacts of the time from which evidence of coronavirus infection could be potentially sampled. Corpses could maybe be exhumed and sampled, but I'm not sure what all goes into the approvals for that.
Doug B
Footballguy
Nothing wrong with fine-tuning this stuff.
The COVID vaccination protocols of 2021-22 will likely not be the vaccination protocols of 2031-32. Dosages will be different. The specifics of the RNA inside of mRNA vaccines will be different. Frequency of dose will be different. Etc.
If I cared about what one of the most arrogant people on this entire board thought about me Id have left a LOOOOOONG time ago.
jhib
Footballguy
Even though this is still one of the key points right there on top?
To me, it seems news like this one should give people more confidence in the vaccines. They noticed a genuine risk, realized they can tweak the recommendation for the time period between shots, but still stress that there's greater risk in not getting vaccinated in the first place.
Yet of course people will use it as evidence instead to be less confident in the whole process.
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Doug B
Footballguy
Not hardly. Can't make improvements if nothing has been learned. Refining knowledge today doesn't mean that yesterday was a state of ignorance.
gianmarco
Footballguy
"Tell me you don't understand statistics without telling me you don't understand statistics".
jhib
Footballguy
And this is all just one tiny part of the Covid-19 vaccination picture. The article basically says, "There's this one really rare, relatively mild side effect of the vaccine - that is actually less rare and less mild when you actually get Covid - and we've figured out a tweak to make the risk/benefit regarding this side effect fall even more favorably towards vaccination." I guess I just find it odd that this would be your "Exhibit A" why one should wait to vaccinate. I mean, if it's so rare that it's insignificant, then why use it as evidence for your decision process? But if it's significant enough to make it part of your decision, why use it as evidence to make the decision that is worse in this regard?
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