*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (4 Viewers)

[Nathan R. Jessep]

So this only affects kids? Do we know so little because it's China?

Nothing I've dug up thus far indicates that this is anything beyond normal respiratory season fodder. I think media hype mostly. The "white lung" increase does give me a little pause, but I don't think is a cause for concern other than monitoring.

But to the second question, yes. Always yes to that. lol

All that said, my kids' half-brother (around 8yo IIRC) is currently ill with what was diagnosed last week as a viral pneumonia.

 

[3C's]

Consider the source, British tabloids.

 

[jobarules]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

 

[urbanhack]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

Also happening in dogs.

 

[3C's]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

Also happening in dogs.

Thankfully I refused to mask my dogs.

 

[Doug B]

Nothing I've dug up thus far indicates that this is anything beyond normal respiratory season fodder. I think media hype mostly.

Between the 2002 SARS outbreak in China and maybe 2010-12, there were just about annual reports on the next "killer bug!" to come out of China. It finally petered out in the years before COVID struck. Now the FUD train is back a-runnin'.

BS until proven otherwise. Even with COVID having happened.

 

[AAABatteries]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

Also happening in dogs.

My dog has worked from home licked his balls while sitting on the couch for 3 straight years.

 

[3C's]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

Also happening in dogs.

My dog has worked from home licked his balls while sitting on the couch for 3 straight years.

And then gives you kisses am I right?!

 

[Scoresman]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

Also happening in dogs.

Yup I cancelled my dog’s grooming appointment because it’s really bad here.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Has Covid messed with our immune systems?

China, immune debt, and the latest immunology data story

yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com

guest author on YLE's blog, but she does weigh in on a counter-point article posted in the comments

 

[Big League Chew]

US state records child pneumonia outbreak

Dr John Kelley, from western Massachusetts, said his practice was seeing a lot of children coming in with pneumonia or suffering from a combination of RSV and other respiratory illnesses.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Now in 2 states. Smfh

 

[AAABatteries]

US state records child pneumonia outbreak

Dr John Kelley, from western Massachusetts, said his practice was seeing a lot of children coming in with pneumonia or suffering from a combination of RSV and other respiratory illnesses.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Now in 2 states. Smfh

Thanks a lot, Bernie Lootz.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Some GOP senators wrote Biden asking that he issue a travel ban to/from China based on the pneumonia outbreak there.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

State of Affairs: Dec 5

All indicators for all respiratory illnesses increasing

yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com

 

[Courtjester]

My wife managed to avoid Covid, which is amazing because she is in 3-4 schools a day. HOWEVER, Saturday she started a little sore throat and just felt off. She got progressively sicker and is now isolated in the bedroom after testing positive yesterday. Fever, exhaustion and terrible cough.

I have had a runny nose and exhaustion for a couple of days so I am hoping it is not going to get worse.

 

[Scoresman]

Yeah, the poop water metrics are definitely rising. Par for the course this time of year.

 

[beer 30]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

Also happening in dogs.

My dog has worked from home licked his balls while sitting on the couch for 3 straight years.

If you could, you know you would too

 

[Scoresman]

Hear so many people say recently "I had the worst cold last week!" or "I just got over the flu!" With everything going around nowadays how are people so sure what it is they got? It's like the winter version of "Dont worry, it's just allergies". I know a fever eliminates a cold, but so many of the other symptoms are shared,

 

[bcat01]

Hear so many people say recently "I had the worst cold last week!" or "I just got over the flu!" With everything going around nowadays how are people so sure what it is they got? It's like the winter version of "Dont worry, it's just allergies". I know a fever eliminates a cold, but so many of the other symptoms are shared,

Uncles whole family just had Influenza A. Parents friends whole family just had Covid. Both were confirmed with test otherwise they would have never known.

 

[jobarules]

Hear so many people say recently "I had the worst cold last week!" or "I just got over the flu!" With everything going around nowadays how are people so sure what it is they got? It's like the winter version of "Dont worry, it's just allergies". I know a fever eliminates a cold, but so many of the other symptoms are shared,

This has been going on as long as I've been alive.

 

[AAABatteries]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

Also happening in dogs.

My dog has worked from home licked his balls while sitting on the couch for 3 straight years.

If you could, you know you would too

“That dog will bite you”

 

[IC FBGCav]

The data is out. You just need to find it. The expected deaths are up a lot on people that got vaxxed

 

[3C's]

I looked, didn't find it. Oh well.

 

[AAABatteries]

The data is out. You just need to find it. The expected deaths are up a lot on people that got vaxxed

I’m guessing expected deaths among those vaccinated is 100%.

 

[3C's]

The data is out. You just need to find it. The expected deaths are up a lot on people that got vaxxed

I’m guessing expected deaths among those vaccinated is 100%.

Well dang, that was unexpected.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Hear so many people say recently "I had the worst cold last week!" or "I just got over the flu!" With everything going around nowadays how are people so sure what it is they got? It's like the winter version of "Dont worry, it's just allergies". I know a fever eliminates a cold, but so many of the other symptoms are shared,

If people are just getting cold-like symptoms and recovering, I don't see why we would care exactly what virus they were infected with. We should be pleased that we've gotten to this point with covid.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Hear so many people say recently "I had the worst cold last week!" or "I just got over the flu!" With everything going around nowadays how are people so sure what it is they got? It's like the winter version of "Dont worry, it's just allergies". I know a fever eliminates a cold, but so many of the other symptoms are shared,

If people are just getting cold-like symptoms and recovering, I don't see why we would care exactly what virus they were infected with. We should be pleased that we've gotten to this point with covid.

I think due to the higher mortality rate and other more severe complications that covid causes certain more at risk groups. You might visits grandma with a cold or ear infection (not that I would recommend that either), but you wouldn't/def shouldn't with covid.

 

[urbanhack]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

Also happening in dogs.

My dog has worked from home licked his balls while sitting on the couch for 3 straight years.

If you could, you know you would too

“That dog will bite you”

"that is not my dog"

 

[culdeus]

When do I have to start wearing a mask at restaurant hostess stands again?

 

[Mile High]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

It's been almost 2 years since schools were closed in most places.

 

[Scoresman]

Hear so many people say recently "I had the worst cold last week!" or "I just got over the flu!" With everything going around nowadays how are people so sure what it is they got? It's like the winter version of "Dont worry, it's just allergies". I know a fever eliminates a cold, but so many of the other symptoms are shared,

If people are just getting cold-like symptoms and recovering, I don't see why we would care exactly what virus they were infected with. We should be pleased that we've gotten to this point with covid.

I think due to the higher mortality rate and other more severe complications that covid causes certain more at risk groups. You might visits grandma with a cold or ear infection (not that I would recommend that either), but you wouldn't/def shouldn't with covid.

This is it for me since my wife is immunocompromised. I know I can't expect people to go the lengths we do just for a small percentage of the population, but that doesnt mean I dont roll my eyes a bit when people say "Oh it's just allergies", or "it's just a cold" when experience has told me that so many of them come back to us later with "OMG just tested positive, you guys should test" two days later. This is more of a rant about people who know our specific situation.

 

[jobarules]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

It's been almost 2 years since schools were closed in most places.

And your point is? Thats 2 full winters (2020 & 2021) kids werent building immunity

 

[Mile High]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

It's been almost 2 years since schools were closed in most places.

And your point is? Thats 2 full winters (2020 & 2021) kids werent building immunity

And the last 2 years they have been.

 

[jobarules]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

It's been almost 2 years since schools were closed in most places.

And your point is? Thats 2 full winters (2020 & 2021) kids werent building immunity

And the last 2 years they have been.

last ONE year

 

[The Commish]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

It's been almost 2 years since schools were closed in most places.

And your point is? Thats 2 full winters (2020 & 2021) kids werent building immunity

This is a pretty egregious misunderstanding of how immune systems work. They weren't turned off. We are constantly building immunity. One can make the argument that kids missed out on specific opportunities with specific bacteria/viruses/proteins and I guess that's fine to point out. But that's not meaningful to what is happening right now UNLESS the bacteria/viruses/proteins they are battling now were the same ones they "missed" then. If not, it's just a bad talking point that has no meaningful bearing on what we're seeing right now.

 

[Capella]

Every other day I find myself speaking to another new person who is either MRNA vax injured or are connected closely to someone who was.

Lmfao

 

[jobarules]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

It's been almost 2 years since schools were closed in most places.

And your point is? Thats 2 full winters (2020 & 2021) kids werent building immunity

This is a pretty egregious misunderstanding of how immune systems work. They weren't turned off. We are constantly building immunity. One can make the argument that kids missed out on specific opportunities with specific bacteria/viruses/proteins and I guess that's fine to point out. But that's not meaningful to what is happening right now UNLESS the bacteria/viruses/proteins they are battling now were the same ones they "missed" then. If not, it's just a bad talking point that has no meaningful bearing on what we're seeing right now.

Except that's LITERALLY what most in the medical community think is the reason for the upswing in respiratory infections in children.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

This is a pretty egregious misunderstanding of how immune systems work. They weren't turned off. We are constantly building immunity. One can make the argument that kids missed out on specific opportunities with specific bacteria/viruses/proteins and I guess that's fine to point out. But that's not meaningful to what is happening right now UNLESS the bacteria/viruses/proteins they are battling now were the same ones they "missed" then. If not, it's just a bad talking point that has no meaningful bearing on what we're seeing right now.

Precisely. It's the "immunity debt" theory that has been circulating for 2+ years now. YLE addresses it in one of those recent posts she did.

 

[The Commish]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

It's been almost 2 years since schools were closed in most places.

And your point is? Thats 2 full winters (2020 & 2021) kids werent building immunity

This is a pretty egregious misunderstanding of how immune systems work. They weren't turned off. We are constantly building immunity. One can make the argument that kids missed out on specific opportunities with specific bacteria/viruses/proteins and I guess that's fine to point out. But that's not meaningful to what is happening right now UNLESS the bacteria/viruses/proteins they are battling now were the same ones they "missed" then. If not, it's just a bad talking point that has no meaningful bearing on what we're seeing right now.

Except that's LITERALLY what most in the medical community think is the reason for the upswing in respiratory infections in children.

I'd like to see any reputable doctor saying this pneumonia outbreak is a result of being isolated for two winters. The outbreak is a result of a relatively foreign bacteria/virus/protein being introduced to the population that spreads rather easily from one host to the other. AT BEST, the isolation pushed the inevitable from happening two years ago to now. I'd recommend reading YLE's comments on this very subject to get a little more perspective on what's going on. She's addressed this several times.

 

[jobarules]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

It's been almost 2 years since schools were closed in most places.

And your point is? Thats 2 full winters (2020 & 2021) kids werent building immunity

This is a pretty egregious misunderstanding of how immune systems work. They weren't turned off. We are constantly building immunity. One can make the argument that kids missed out on specific opportunities with specific bacteria/viruses/proteins and I guess that's fine to point out. But that's not meaningful to what is happening right now UNLESS the bacteria/viruses/proteins they are battling now were the same ones they "missed" then. If not, it's just a bad talking point that has no meaningful bearing on what we're seeing right now.

Except that's LITERALLY what most in the medical community think is the reason for the upswing in respiratory infections in children.

I'd like to see any reputable doctor saying this pneumonia outbreak is a result of being isolated for two winters. The outbreak is a result of a relatively foreign bacteria/virus/protein being introduced to the population that spreads rather easily from one host to the other. AT BEST, the isolation pushed the inevitable from happening two years ago to now. I'd recommend reading YLE's comments on this very subject to get a little more perspective on what's going on. She's addressed this several times.

All Im doing is reading the articles posted in this very thread by others. You should try it sometime.

US state records child pneumonia outbreak

Dr John Kelley, from western Massachusetts, said his practice was seeing a lot of children coming in with pneumonia or suffering from a combination of RSV and other respiratory illnesses.

www.dailymail.co.uk

There are several theories, one of which is that children's immunity has been weakened by lockdowns, mask-wearing and school closures during the pandemic — leaving them more vulnerable to seasonal illnesses.

Has Covid messed with our immune systems?

China, immune debt, and the latest immunology data story

yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com

“Immunity debt”
​

In the first 2-3 years of the pandemic, RSV and flu, for example, were incredibly suppressed due to pandemic control measures. This led to a new phrase: “immunity debt” or “immunity gap.”

It’s centered around an increasing “susceptibility” pool, or how many people are vulnerable to infection. During the emergency, more and more people became susceptible due to a lack of infection (or maternal antibodies), susceptible people were born, and recovered people died. Then, when restrictions were lifted and the “normal” viruses returned, there was a HUGE susceptibility pool leading to many infections. This resulted in more infections than in the pre-pandemic seasons, which caused crowded hospitals in China, for example.

The U.S.—which is one year ahead of China in lifting restrictions—still has higher than “normal” RSV infections. It will likely take a few years to re-synchronize viral dynamics, but the dramatic effect is less apparent every subsequent year. Below is my best attempt at visualizing this phenomenon.

 

[the moops]

Not sure how or why anyone would ever go to the daily mall website. Nevermind link to it as some sort of authority on anything

 

[The Commish]

Young kids were isolated, social distanced, remote learning, masked up for 2 winters not building up their immune system and now people shocked there is an increase of respiratory infections in the winter amongst children.

It's been almost 2 years since schools were closed in most places.

And your point is? Thats 2 full winters (2020 & 2021) kids werent building immunity

This is a pretty egregious misunderstanding of how immune systems work. They weren't turned off. We are constantly building immunity. One can make the argument that kids missed out on specific opportunities with specific bacteria/viruses/proteins and I guess that's fine to point out. But that's not meaningful to what is happening right now UNLESS the bacteria/viruses/proteins they are battling now were the same ones they "missed" then. If not, it's just a bad talking point that has no meaningful bearing on what we're seeing right now.

Except that's LITERALLY what most in the medical community think is the reason for the upswing in respiratory infections in children.

I'd like to see any reputable doctor saying this pneumonia outbreak is a result of being isolated for two winters. The outbreak is a result of a relatively foreign bacteria/virus/protein being introduced to the population that spreads rather easily from one host to the other. AT BEST, the isolation pushed the inevitable from happening two years ago to now. I'd recommend reading YLE's comments on this very subject to get a little more perspective on what's going on. She's addressed this several times.

All Im doing is reading the articles posted in this very thread by others. You should try it sometime.

US state records child pneumonia outbreak

Dr John Kelley, from western Massachusetts, said his practice was seeing a lot of children coming in with pneumonia or suffering from a combination of RSV and other respiratory illnesses.

www.dailymail.co.uk

There are several theories, one of which is that children's immunity has been weakened by lockdowns, mask-wearing and school closures during the pandemic — leaving them more vulnerable to seasonal illnesses.

Has Covid messed with our immune systems?

China, immune debt, and the latest immunology data story

yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com

“Immunity debt”​

​

In the first 2-3 years of the pandemic, RSV and flu, for example, were incredibly suppressed due to pandemic control measures. This led to a new phrase: “immunity debt” or “immunity gap.”

It’s centered around an increasing “susceptibility” pool, or how many people are vulnerable to infection. During the emergency, more and more people became susceptible due to a lack of infection (or maternal antibodies), susceptible people were born, and recovered people died. Then, when restrictions were lifted and the “normal” viruses returned, there was a HUGE susceptibility pool leading to many infections. This resulted in more infections than in the pre-pandemic seasons, which caused crowded hospitals in China, for example.

The U.S.—which is one year ahead of China in lifting restrictions—still has higher than “normal” RSV infections. It will likely take a few years to re-synchronize viral dynamics, but the dramatic effect is less apparent every subsequent year. Below is my best attempt at visualizing this phenomenon.

There is no way you read the YLE posts completely. She doesn't come even remotely close in saying what you assert above.

 

[The Commish]

And neither does that link to the daily mail. It actually quotes the CDC as saying nothing in the data is out of the ordinary. It actually says these infections are likely from previous infections from RSV and/or COVID not because they were isolated for two winters.

 

[jobarules]

Not sure how or why anyone would ever go to the daily mall website. Nevermind link to it as some sort of authority on anything

I dunno. Im not the one who originally posted it

 

[IC FBGCav]

The data is out. You just need to find it. The expected deaths are up a lot on people that got vaxxed

I’m guessing expected deaths among those vaccinated is 100%.

I am coming from a place of concern for you all. Sorry I care and want the best for you all.

 

[The Commish]

I'd like a link to "the data" that's being talked about here....TIA

 

[jobarules]

The data is out. You just need to find it. The expected deaths are up a lot on people that got vaxxed

I’m guessing expected deaths among those vaccinated is 100%.

I am coming from a place of concern for you all. Sorry I care and want the best for you all.

Share this data. As someone vaxxed I'd be interested in knowing how ****ed I am.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

It would have to be a pretty badass study to account for all the differential factors at this point. Basically zero mitigation measures in place anywhere any more. Even defining "vaccinated" could be tricky in a large population. Initial series only? Up to date on all boosters? Somewhere in between? How long ago was last vax received? etc. etc.

this was from end of 2022, where vax rates were "plateauing" and they're currently well below that (as far as being "current" on updated vaccines): https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/why-do-vaccinated-people-represent-most-covid-19-deaths-right-now/

TL;DR: A larger proportion of the population being vaccinated + lower rates of subsequent vaccination (i.e. waning immunity -> less protection -> more severe disease in most vulnerable population) = more "vaccinated" deaths

My guess is that some influencer or grifter has fallen prey to the base rate fallacy and it's making the rounds (again). Just a hunch. I've not seen anything in the news sources I follow.

 

[IC FBGCav]

The data is out. You just need to find it. The expected deaths are up a lot on people that got vaxxed

I’m guessing expected deaths among those vaccinated is 100%.

I am coming from a place of concern for you all. Sorry I care and want the best for you all.

Share this data. As someone vaxxed I'd be interested in knowing how ****ed I am.

It comes from the life insurance industry.

 

[IC FBGCav]

It would have to be a pretty badass study to account for all the differential factors at this point. Basically zero mitigation measures in place anywhere any more. Even defining "vaccinated" could be tricky in a large population. Initial series only? Up to date on all boosters? Somewhere in between? How long ago was last vax received? etc. etc.

this was from end of 2022, where vax rates were "plateauing" and they're currently well below that (as far as being "current" on updated vaccines): https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/why-do-vaccinated-people-represent-most-covid-19-deaths-right-now/

TL;DR: A larger proportion of the population being vaccinated + lower rates of subsequent vaccination (i.e. waning immunity -> less protection -> more severe disease in most vulnerable population) = more "vaccinated" deaths

My guess is that some influencer or grifter has fallen prey to the base rate fallacy and it's making the rounds (again). Just a hunch. I've not seen anything in the news sources I follow.

The study is already done.