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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (5 Viewers)

JaxBill said:
one thing I've been thinking about - With.elective surgery and procedures put on hold in some places, I wonder how many men are going to put off colonoscopies till much later and will we see an uptick in such cancers 2 or 3 years from now.
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Could be a possibility.  This is also going to hurt smaller hospitals that rely on those procedures to stay in business.  They may end up needing a government bailout.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
There are thousands of people that find themselves suddenly unemployed.  I find it hard to believe that we don’t have use for additional caregivers.  I’m not expecting them to be trained as well as nurses, but people can learn specific tasks to take some of the load off of the real healthcare workers.
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It really would be nice if that were the case.  Seriously.  I wish I were able to explain it better as to why it's just not something that is going to be widely feasible.

Just to give you an idea:  The nurse isn't just taking care of a critically ill patient like others.  First of all, keep in mind that most of these patients have other medical problems (high blood pressure, diabetes, asthma, chronic lung disease, just to name a few).  They have IVs in place with multiple medications that need to be given.  These medications are coming from the pharmacy in the hospital.  They have to be checked, drawn up, put into a pump, and given at the right dosage and the right rate.  Same with IV fluids.  Math and practical skills involved.  Then all of these changes need to be done in a clean manner in order to not pass or introduce infection into the body that will overwhelm and kill them.  Labs also need to be drawn.  Patients need to be routinely turned so they don't get ulcers.  The tubes helping them breathe also need to be constantly suctioned and checked without being dislodged.  Vital signs need to be constantly checked to look for any small changes that could indicate a problem.  Urine catheters need to be watched and then emptied.  Then all of this needs to be charted so that it can followed.  And then it all starts again. Because the blood pressure medication might need to be adjusted.  Or the medicine to help increase the blood pressure.  Or the insulin to help with the glucose from the labs that were just drawn.  And then knowing enough to know something isn't right to alert the physician that they need to come and reevaluate and make changes. 

There's a reason nursing school takes years and why critical care takes even longer to learn. 

None of this has anything to do with a ventilator itself. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
Part of the issue for me is getting info from my wife (who works in healthcare and has friends in emergency rooms treating real people in a boots on the ground fashion). She'll describe new local cases involving kids in their late teens and individual stories of 20 somethings in ICU. But I can't tell if that is an outlier or an evolving trend. Pages and pages ago there was a link to a doctor in White Plains saying his biggest demographic was women in their 20's and 30's. Bottom line, it's hard to say we have any information in any absolute sense, but the working theory that it impacts older people more frequently and more severely is probably a true statement, but that does not conversely mean it doesn't impact younger healthy people.
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Wife works for a hospital too, wish I had some good news but I don't. They are still calling her to come in daily. 

Brother works for the VA in DC, as you can imagine he doesn't give a good outlook either. You can PM me 99, folks in here get itchy with anything I post not in the Shark Pool

-Cheers

 
gianmarco said:
It really would be nice if that were the case.  Seriously.  I wish I were able to explain it better as to why it's just not something that is going to be widely feasible.

Just to give you an idea:  The nurse isn't just taking care of a critically ill patient like others.  First of all, keep in mind that most of these patients have other medical problems (high blood pressure, diabetes, asthma, chronic lung disease, just to name a few).  They have IVs in place with multiple medications that need to be given.  These medications are coming from the pharmacy in the hospital.  They have to be checked, drawn up, put into a pump, and given at the right dosage and the right rate.  Same with IV fluids.  Math and practical skills involved.  Then all of these changes need to be done in a clean manner in order to not pass or introduce infection into the body that will overwhelm and kill them.  Labs also need to be drawn.  Patients need to be routinely turned so they don't get ulcers.  The tubes helping them breathe also need to be constantly suctioned and checked without being dislodged.  Vital signs need to be constantly checked to look for any small changes that could indicate a problem.  Urine catheters need to be watched and then emptied.  Then all of this needs to be charted so that it can followed.  And then it all starts again. Because the blood pressure medication might need to be adjusted.  Or the medicine to help increase the blood pressure.  Or the insulin to help with the glucose from the labs that were just drawn.  And then knowing enough to know something isn't right to alert the physician that they need to come and reevaluate and make changes. 

There's a reason nursing school takes years and why critical care takes even longer to learn. 

None of this has anything to do with a ventilator itself. 
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Right, so just to take some examples from your paragraph here:

Why can't a non-nurse be trained to watch and empty urine catheters?  That person's (or multiple people) entire job would be to go around the hospital emptying catheters.  One less thing for the nurses to worry about.

Somebody else gets trained to draw blood for lab tests.  All that person does all day is go around taking blood for lab tests.  Another thing the nurses don't need to do.

And so on with any tasks that people can be trained to do in a couple weeks.

Why is that so unrealistic?  I don't work in the health care field so maybe I'm still not getting it.

 
shader said:
I read all his tweets.  I hope I'm not coming off as a downer here, but he seems very pie in the sky.  "But there are a lot of worlds where things work together on multiple fronts (expanded ICU capacity + better testing/surveillance + more efficient social distancing + reasonably effective treatments, even before a vaccine is developed) to avoid the absolute worst-case scenarios."

I've seen very little to indicate that the USA is expanding it's ICU in a meaningful way.  Certainly the testing/surveillance isn't happening.  Social distancing was covered in the Jeremy Young tweet.  Effective treatments is something we all hope for, but is a totally different topic.  Yes, if we learn how to treat this in a way that significantly changes the mortality rate, that's great.  But as of now that's not really something that's happening.

Silver is sugar-coating a simple issue:

Strict quarantine/lockdown/testing like China-SK is the only thing that will stop a disaster from happening.
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At a 30,000 foot view, time is an asset that is hard to quantify as the possibilities that could occur during that time are infinite. That's why it's usually wise to buy time, even if you don't know what you are buying.

But yes, I agree that in ranking the three outcomes they rank like this:

1) The curve is flattened, lowest overall death total

2) We don't attempt to flatten the curve and let it occur naturally so we exit as quickly as possible, medium overall death total

3) We try to flatten the curve, but fail to keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed, highest overall death total.

This is why I am so opposed to giving people any level of forgiveness for not being on board with our attempts to flatten the curve. They are directly responsible for taking the attempt from achieving #1 and resulting in #3. The non-participants on the facebook posts I'm seeing break my heart so much that I'm literally beginning to feel hatred towards them, knowing what they are doing to the results above. 

 
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shader said:
I read all his tweets.  I hope I'm not coming off as a downer here, but he seems very pie in the sky.  "But there are a lot of worlds where things work together on multiple fronts (expanded ICU capacity + better testing/surveillance + more efficient social distancing + reasonably effective treatments, even before a vaccine is developed) to avoid the absolute worst-case scenarios."

I've seen very little to indicate that the USA is expanding it's ICU in a meaningful way.  Certainly the testing/surveillance isn't happening.  Social distancing was covered in the Jeremy Young tweet.  Effective treatments is something we all hope for, but is a totally different topic.  Yes, if we learn how to treat this in a way that significantly changes the mortality rate, that's great.  But as of now that's not really something that's happening.

Silver is sugar-coating a simple issue:

Strict quarantine/lockdown/testing like China-SK is the only thing that will stop a disaster from happening.
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It’s ok to have some hope, man. You don’t have to snuff it all out. 

 
gianmarco said:
It really would be nice if that were the case.  Seriously.  I wish I were able to explain it better as to why it's just not something that is going to be widely feasible.

Just to give you an idea:  The nurse isn't just taking care of a critically ill patient like others.  First of all, keep in mind that most of these patients have other medical problems (high blood pressure, diabetes, asthma, chronic lung disease, just to name a few).  They have IVs in place with multiple medications that need to be given.  These medications are coming from the pharmacy in the hospital.  They have to be checked, drawn up, put into a pump, and given at the right dosage and the right rate.  Same with IV fluids.  Math and practical skills involved.  Then all of these changes need to be done in a clean manner in order to not pass or introduce infection into the body that will overwhelm and kill them.  Labs also need to be drawn.  Patients need to be routinely turned so they don't get ulcers.  The tubes helping them breathe also need to be constantly suctioned and checked without being dislodged.  Vital signs need to be constantly checked to look for any small changes that could indicate a problem.  Urine catheters need to be watched and then emptied.  Then all of this needs to be charted so that it can followed.  And then it all starts again. Because the blood pressure medication might need to be adjusted.  Or the medicine to help increase the blood pressure.  Or the insulin to help with the glucose from the labs that were just drawn.  And then knowing enough to know something isn't right to alert the physician that they need to come and reevaluate and make changes. 

There's a reason nursing school takes years and why critical care takes even longer to learn. 

None of this has anything to do with a ventilator itself. 
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Totally agree. I would be willing to volunteer to run restock duty, empty bed pans, change linens and all that other stuff that qualified professionals shouldn't have to bother with these days. A nurse needs more gloves? I'm on it. Q-tips? Gotcha. Sorting of paperwork. I'm there. 

At some point, the "recovered" COVID patients may be the ones who are the volunteers we need to help out in hospitals, grocery stores and the like. If they can't get sick again, and can't get you sick (outside of  transmitting via dirty hands of course). 

 
I'm 60 diabetic and have had pneumonia 3 times in 10 years. You couldn't blast me out of the house. My family is bringing me supplies and leaving on porch. They are to worried to even talk to me in person. Lots of Skype. On top of that we just had an earthquake in Utah shook my right out of bed

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Right, so just to take some examples from your paragraph here:

Why can't a non-nurse be trained to watch and empty urine catheters?  That person's (or multiple people) entire job would be to go around the hospital emptying catheters.  One less thing for the nurses to worry about.

Somebody else gets trained to draw blood for lab tests.  All that person does all day is go around taking blood for lab tests.  Another thing the nurses don't need to do.

And so on with any tasks that people can be trained to do in a couple weeks.

Why is that so unrealistic?  I don't work in the health care field so maybe I'm still not getting it.
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There are some staff that help with those things.  There are lab technicians and phlebotomists that can help with labs.  But doing those things doesn't free up a nurse to take care of 2-3 patients.  It just makes her job easier taking care of the 1 patient and not making any more mistakes than human error already allows for or getting time to eat. 

In the end, there's only so much you can replace but you still will end up needing that critical care nursing that doesn't allow for a nurse to take care of 3 or more patients.  You also can't have multiple people constantly coming into a room, especially when they are positive for COVID as they are infectious and there isn't enough protection to offer to so many different people and keep them all safe.

Without trying to be difficult, no, it's really hard to understand or "get it" without knowing more about it. 

 
otb_lifer said:
New Yorkers should prepare for a “shelter-in-place” order in the coming days as local officials try to contain the fast-moving coronavirus that’s spreading throughout the U.S., New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said Tuesday, adding that a decision will be made in the next 48 hours.

Full Article
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I'm not really sure why NYC hasn't done this already.  This curve is not getting very flat.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Right, so just to take some examples from your paragraph here:

Why can't a non-nurse be trained to watch and empty urine catheters?  That person's (or multiple people) entire job would be to go around the hospital emptying catheters.  One less thing for the nurses to worry about.

Somebody else gets trained to draw blood for lab tests.  All that person does all day is go around taking blood for lab tests.  Another thing the nurses don't need to do.

And so on with any tasks that people can be trained to do in a couple weeks.

Why is that so unrealistic?  I don't work in the health care field so maybe I'm still not getting it.
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To add just a little more....

That's assuming everything goes well and the patient remains stable on current medications and interventions.  What about when the blood pressure drops far too low.  Or the patient becomes combative because the sedation isn't adequate and then pulls the tube out of his mouth that's helping him breathe and now has to be emergently reintubated or, worse, actually resuscitated.  That takes expertise AND time.  And something like that gets missed when that nurse is in 2 other rooms trying to do the same things that require lots of time for other patients.  It only takes minutes and then you now have a free bed because the patient doesn't survive that event.

I tried to give a list of just the common things.  There's a list probably 10x as long that involves other things that are done or may need to be done depending on what's going on with the specific patient. 

 
Slapdash said:
I'm not really sure why NYC hasn't done this already.  This curve is not getting very flat.
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mayor and gov not seeing eye to eye (again):

New York City will not be quarantined, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Tuesday, trying to dispel rumors as cities and states ramp up efforts to curb the spread of the new coronavirus.

Cuomo said he wants to tamp down rumors that the city will be placed under lockdown similar to measures taken by public officials in Italy and China, which have the highest number of cases in the world. 

“That cannot happen. It cannot happen legally,” Cuomo said at a news briefing, saying the mayor of New York City doesn’t have that authority and he doesn’t want to lock down cities. “No city in this state can quarantine itself without state approval and I have no interest whatsoever, and no plan whatsoever, to quarantine any city.”

 
LEHI — A Utah-based diagnostic testing company says its continuing its pursuit of authorization from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to issue emergency approval for a COVID-19 test that’s already in use in Europe and could markedly amp up testing capacity in Utah and other areas of the Intermountain West.

The company says it has the resources to produce 50,000 or more of the tests daily from its Salt Lake facility. Each test, according to the company, costs about $10 per patient, delivers results in about 90 minutes and can be processed at most medical labs.

During a community leaders call hosted Monday by Utah tech sector advocacy group Silicon Slopes, Co-Diagnostics communication director Seth Egan said his company has already earned approval from the European Union for its test, which uses a sputum sample to look for evidence of COVID-19, but continues to await action from the FDA under the agency’s expedited emergency use protocol for COVID-19 testing.

“With FDA approval through emergency use authorization we could supply all of the testing needs in Utah and around us easily,” Egan said. “We sit here a little bit amazed that we have a test available in European nations but we can’t sell it as a clinical diagnostic in our own home state.
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https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/3/17/21182512/covid-19-testing-co-diagnostics-testing-kits-fda-approval-utah-tech-community-silicon-slopes

The FDA continues to be wretched.

 
gianmarco said:
To add just a little more....

That's assuming everything goes well and the patient remains stable on current medications and interventions.  What about when the blood pressure drops far too low.  Or the patient becomes combative because the sedation isn't adequate and then pulls the tube out of his mouth that's helping him breathe and now has to be emergently reintubated or, worse, actually resuscitated.  That takes expertise AND time.  And something like that gets missed when that nurse is in 2 other rooms trying to do the same things that require lots of time for other patients.  It only takes minutes and then you now have a free bed because the patient doesn't survive that event.

I tried to give a list of just the common things.  There's a list probably 10x as long that involves other things that are done or may need to be done depending on what's going on with the specific patient. 
Click to expand...
My Link

 
JaxBill said:
one thing I've been thinking about - With.elective surgery and procedures put on hold in some places, I wonder how many men are going to put off colonoscopies till much later and will we see an uptick in such cancers 2 or 3 years from now.
Click to expand...
There's a lot things like this that will lead to a ton of deaths but the deaths won't be reported in the coronavirus figures.  You could lump in increased suicides along with deaths linked to people not willing to go to the hospital because they don't have the money to pay at the moment.

 
JaxBill said:
one thing I've been thinking about - With.elective surgery and procedures put on hold in some places, I wonder how many men are going to put off colonoscopies till much later and will we see an uptick in such cancers 2 or 3 years from now.
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I am due for one and my referral from my PCP runs through August.  No way I am going in the next 2 or 3 months.

 
JaxBill said:
one thing I've been thinking about - With.elective surgery and procedures put on hold in some places, I wonder how many men are going to put off colonoscopies till much later and will we see an uptick in such cancers 2 or 3 years from now.
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I just turned 52 on Saturday... Have my annual physical tomorrow (scheduled 3 months ago) and haven't been screened yet other than blood work.

Wife doesn't want me to even go in for the physical and I'm inclined to agree.... Dunno.

And yeah...need to get the butt-probe, especially with a dad who had prostate cancer

 
NotSmart said:
I look forward to more carefully reading this tomorrow when I'm less tired.

At a quick scan, he's advocating caution with enacting broad sweeping policy using limited at best data to guide us.

The problem is, the lion is at the door right now - at least as best we can determine with the limited world wide data currently available.

I also added a new word from it:  hecatomb
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I love it when I hear new metaphors.  Not that this is a new phrase, but I don't ever recall encountering it personally.

hecatomb - Without looking it up... "hundred deaths"?

 
Ministry of Pain said:
What did people ever do before the invention of TP?
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Smelled like ####, I presume. Personal hygiene has come a long way in human history. You didn't answer any of my questions though. 

Edit: nvm I see you answered elsewhere. And then edited out your exact routine after realizing it's gross. 

 
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GoBirds said:
I know locally they set up drive through testing days ago, is this happening everywhere yet and are we close to seeing the results from them? Once those are in and we ramp up will be interesting to watch from there. 
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Drive through testing started here in Marin County (population 260K) late last week. Looks like 196 have been tested there, with another 68 tested elsewhere. 15 positives out of those 264 tests.  

https://www.marinij.com/2020/03/17/marin-coronavirus-infections-hit-15-as-lockdown-begins/

 
El Floppo said:
Whoa!

That's as big as anything I lived through in NoCal (I missed the 89 quake).

Damage?
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Not hearing of any major damage yet. Lots of power outages. 
 

Though I did just hear that the SLC airport is shut down. They’re in the process of building a new one because a large portion of the current one is on a major earthquake prone zone. 

 
jamny said:
So, I've gotten into the routine of checking wikipedia to see how other countries are faring.  It's interesting to see the trend that is similar to each.  Hopefully in a week to 10 days we'll start to see the percentages of new cases start to drop and give us all a little hope.
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The countries that have done the best with reducing the number of new cases also did the best with extreme social distancing measures and mandated lockdowns. We as a nation need to do better with this. Italy didn’t see a break in the trend until 10-14 days after they shut everything down. Based on the non-compliance we’ve seen on social media, we need to mandate shutdowns regionally at least, nationally would probably be best, although I get the pain that comes along with that. We can be South Korea or Italy. Right now, we’re a lot more like Italy unfortunately.

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Smelled like ####, I presume. Personal hygiene has come a long way in human history. You didn't answer any of my questions though. 
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I did Conn, 

It was an Epic post that sent the Peanut gallery into a tizzy and since I don't want to tax the poor folks who run this place...

You can PM me if you like but there seems to be a thread dedicated to just the type of banter we were looking for 😉 

 
I hope our leaders know enough about our current situation to strike the correct level of action.  On one hand, overreaction will cause significant unwarranted societal and economic impacts and will lessen the attention paid to our next crisis.  On the other, not taking this serious enough with cause people to die.  I'm afraid it may be a long time before we know if we're doing the right thing.

 
gianmarco said:
There are some staff that help with those things.  There are lab technicians and phlebotomists that can help with labs.  But doing those things doesn't free up a nurse to take care of 2-3 patients.  It just makes her job easier taking care of the 1 patient and not making any more mistakes than human error already allows for or getting time to eat. 

In the end, there's only so much you can replace but you still will end up needing that critical care nursing that doesn't allow for a nurse to take care of 3 or more patients.  You also can't have multiple people constantly coming into a room, especially when they are positive for COVID as they are infectious and there isn't enough protection to offer to so many different people and keep them all safe.

Without trying to be difficult, no, it's really hard to understand or "get it" without knowing more about it. 
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Unfortunately, there's going to be some sacrifices made on the quality of care, or that care will be rationed.

 
gianmarco said:
There are some staff that help with those things.  There are lab technicians and phlebotomists that can help with labs.  But doing those things doesn't free up a nurse to take care of 2-3 patients.  It just makes her job easier taking care of the 1 patient and not making any more mistakes than human error already allows for or getting time to eat. 

In the end, there's only so much you can replace but you still will end up needing that critical care nursing that doesn't allow for a nurse to take care of 3 or more patients.  You also can't have multiple people constantly coming into a room, especially when they are positive for COVID as they are infectious and there isn't enough protection to offer to so many different people and keep them all safe.

Without trying to be difficult, no, it's really hard to understand or "get it" without knowing more about it. 
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Having spent several days visiting a relative in ICU in the past ~year, the nurses there were all hyper competent.  Like noticeably strong.  I can see where schlubs off the street would take more managing than it was worth.

And ICU is scary.  The wing I was in had all sorts of #### go down while I was there.  Insanely injured people in the room next door.  An old man sundowning who had to be restrained.  Some sort of custody battle spilling over into a proxy fight about who could see a child that required security to come.  Just seeing my own person on a ventilator recovering normally after surgery was terrifying.  I was constantly watching the nurses to see whether they were reacting to something or not.  Most people aren't going to be wired for it emotionally IMO.  Especially if ~50% of the people in their care die.

 
Hugh Jass said:
I feel like the Swine Flu vaccine we were lining up for back 10-11 years ago came out quicker than 18 months.  IDK, I keep rooting for the immunologist and vaccine makers to science the #### out of this ASAP.  I feel like now's the time try that new technique that I'm sure someone has been working on.  :nozombiesthough:
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I believe you are correct that it did come sooner but I believe that it was because it was similar to the common flu vaccine. The first vaccine that’s being tested does use a new technique. Rather then using live or dead cells of the virus, the vaccine induces the body to create cells that look like the virus. I’m not sure the benefit of this vs dead cells but I thought it was interesting.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Having spent several days visiting a relative in ICU in the past ~year, the nurses there were all hyper competent.  Like noticeably strong.  I can see where schlubs off the street would take more managing than it was worth.

And ICU is scary.  The wing I was in had all sorts of #### go down while I was there.  Insanely injured people in the room next door.  An old man sundowning who had to be restrained.  Some sort of custody battle spilling over into a proxy fight about who could see a child that required security to come.  Just seeing my own person on a ventilator recovering normally after surgery was terrifying.  I was constantly watching the nurses to see whether they were reacting to something or not.  Most people aren't going to be wired for it emotionally IMO.  Especially if ~50% of the people in their care die.
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Yeah, after all that, who is actually going to be teaching people?  Anyone capable of teaching is going to actually be working to save lives, not spending hours upon hours and days upon days to teach a handful of people. 

The best bet is to fast track students already in school who are close to completing to get a larger workforce to help.  Same with medical schools (and there is a push for that already). 

It's an environment that is really difficult to convey and explain to those who are unfamiliar with it. 

 
Slapdash said:
Of course, was just curious.
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Sorry not trying to be a jerk. And actually, I guess you could preferentially allocate healthcare workers/first responders with type O for patient care, though I think these decisions are best left to individuals.

Our group is asking for volunteers for the COVID service. Although people have been stepping up to the plate, the general feeling seems to be HCW should share the risk as equitably as possible. This becomes tricky when some providers are older and less healthy than others.

 
Terminalxylem said:
Sorry not trying to be a jerk. And actually, I guess you could preferentially allocate healthcare workers/first responders with type O for patient care, though I think these decisions are best left to individuals.

Our group is asking for volunteers for the COVID service. Although people have been stepping up to the plate, the general feeling seems to be HCW should share the risk as equitably as possible. This becomes tricky when some providers are older and less healthy than others.
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I don't know the details of what you're talking about but wanted to say thanks for standing in the gap there as folks in your field are working like crazy I know. Hang in there. It's appreciated.

 
Blick said:
I hope our leaders know enough about our current situation to strike the correct level of action.  On one hand, overreaction will cause significant unwarranted societal and economic impacts and will lessen the attention paid to our next crisis.  On the other, not taking this serious enough with cause people to die.  I'm afraid it may be a long time before we know if we're doing the right thing.
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Also, doing it 50 different ways will fail unless not one of the 50 different ways is a weak link. We should all be doing one way lead by one entity so that we don't have a weak link anywhere.

Discouraging that isn't happening. 

 
[icon] said:
This has led to us discovering Walmart pickup as a strong grocery option. Keep in mind I generally hate Walmart with the fire of a thousand suns... going into a Walmart makes me feel physically dirty and want to punch everyone around me. 
 

That said...

Their app is great. Their prices are notably cheaper than Kroger. Just got everything I wanted (ground beef, chicken breast, fresh veggies, etc) and a time slot for tomorrow 2-3pm. They have tons of toilet paper available.. even Giant 96 roll packs if needed. 

Tomm I just Just pull up to a Free Pickup bay, pop the trunk, they load the groceries into my trunk and I drive away. 
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Saw @Courtjester mention this many many many pages ago and it seem like it’s the next best option to explore. Just hope it doesn’t get too overwhelmed like every other option sans going into the grocery store itself. I stocked up pretty good before the panic set in with the masses but will need some safe options to restock. 

Went my local supermarket on Monday to complete my stockpile. I’ve been shopping’s here for years and have never seen it picked clean like this. Luckily, I was able to catch a worker restocking the chicken breast so I grabbed a bunch of those. Can’t imagine how much longer they lasted  

The place was relatively packed for a Monday afternoon. I was one of the few wearing a mask and gloves and I ended up spending up to an hour walking up and down the isles. Very stressful environment. NOPE!! Completely goes against the idea of social distancing. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I don't know the details of what you're talking about but wanted to say thanks for standing in the gap there as folks in your field are working like crazy I know. Hang in there. It's appreciated.
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Thanks JB.

Hawaii is woefully behind on testing (worst in the country, I believe), but infection is likely to increase dramatically everywhere in the US the next several weeks. Already, people are on edge, and we're only on Phase I of a four part disaster preparedness plan.

 
El Floppo said:
Depends on the type of quake. And yes, that is big... Big enough to shake somebody awake, damage buildings and possibly more.

ETA. Actually.
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A 5.7 is not tossing someone out of their bed, please.  Waking you up, sure, but that is nowhere near throwing you out of bed, lol. 

You said you missed the 6.9 in SF.  Much more powerful than anything in the 5s.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
What did people ever do before the invention of TP?
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Toilet paper has been around for millennia, but it has only been in widespread use since the 1920s with the development of indoor plumbing. And only because newspaper and Sears catalogue pages clogged the pipes. There are many places in the world where it still isn’t common.
 

We had an issue in Afghanistan building bases for their army. The p-traps on the toilets kept breaking. It turns out the soldiers were using rebar to try to jam the rocks they were using to wipe with down the drain. One of the many cultural disconnects we encountered there.

 
Slapdash said:
I'm not really sure why NYC hasn't done this already.  This curve is not getting very flat.
Click to expand...
My hope that NYC doesn't become the biggest disaster in the entire world when all this is said and done shrinks every hour that they fail to go full quarantine. There could be close to a million people there infected with it that don't know it by now. 

 
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