*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (36 Viewers)

[Chemical X]

Schools aren't opening again until the fall.   There's not even a slim chance that they'll reopen for this school year.

Just picture September.  Baseball triple headers.  The masters and Kentucky derby on the same day.  nba and nhl playoffs.  we'll be taking a cruise to get on another cruise.  and kids will be back in school. 

 

[Chemical X]

why hasn't India spiked yet?  did they react early?

its filthy already and 135 degrees....everyone just used to it?

 

[Mr Anonymous]

This is one of the links I posted last week with the highly regarded French study...

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-researcher-in-Marseille-posts-successful-Covid-19-coronavirus-drug-trial-results

Professor Raoult is an infectious diseases specialist and head of the IHU Méditerranée Infection, who has been tasked by - and consulted by - the French government to research possible treatments of Covid-19.

He said that the first Covid-19 patients he had treated with the drug chloroquine had seen a rapid and effective speeding up of their healing process, and a sharp decrease in the amount of time they remained contagious.

US academic study concurs...

A new academic study, published on Friday March 13 by US scientific researchers, also said that chloroquine appeared to be an effective treatment, and appears to align with the findings in France.

It said: “Use of chloroquine (tablets) is showing favorable outcomes in humans infected with Coronavirus including faster time to recovery and shorter hospital stay…

“Research shows that chloroquine also has strong potential as a prophylactic (preventative) measure against coronavirus in the lab, while we wait for a vaccine to be developed.

The presentation made by the French research professor behind the study is available HERE

 

[tangfoot]

why hasn't India spiked yet?  did they react early?

They just instituted a country-wide lockdown, they are the next hot zone and it will be very bad.

 

[shader]

Something I was wondering about in regards to testing. We’ve been hanging onto the official govt releases of numbers.  Obviously I do this all the time. 
 

But what if they are hopelessly wrong?  Right now Italy is dealing with 700 new dead people and jam packed full hospitals. Are they testing with the same fervor as they were? Or have medical resources been routed to the icu areas?  
 

Just a thought.

 

[Ilov80s]

there is out of school day care, those are also closed.  They tend to be in churches and gyms where I'm at.  So you re-open church out of school care to allow parents to go to work?  Why is this safer than school exactly?

It’s not but it’s at least not mandatory

 

[wazoo11]

Definitely not the forum but I assure you many do not share this opinion in any of the circles I frequent around Mar-A-Lago 

Some find comfort in him promoting potential vaccines or treatments, his optimism about getting people back to work ASAP is a terrific message. You keep people at home long enough and a bunch will never go back, lot of folks are lazy and there's a reason unemployment was as low as it was. 

Don't want to derail this thread, I've tried hard to go with the flow of folks, there's some other threads where you can spread your wings a bit more but it certainly isn't to talk politics #11, good luck!

next thing you tell me @LHUCKS still roams this forum 

 

[tamales]

And this is why things are going to open sooner than later imo

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-in-nyc-subway-cut-backs-leads-to-packed-commute/

 

[Doug B]

This is one of the links I posted last week with the highly regarded French study...

From my post to you above:

One of the authors of this editorial, Dr. Didier Raoult, has been mentioned and discussed in this thread. He is a legitimate and noted researcher in the field of infectious diseases. Subsequent to this editorial, he was part of a team that conducted a limited trial (>30 patients) of a therapy combining hydroxychloroquine and the popular antibiotic azithromycin.

While initially being touted as a promising set of results, Raoult's methods in achieving those results proved questionable under further scrutiny (The Intercept, 3/24/2020):

"Raoult’s claim that the study proves the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine on Covid-19 has been questioned for its very small size and some odd choices in how it was conducted. Then there is the fact that six of the patients treated with hydroxychloroquine had adverse reactions within three days: one died, three were removed from the study when they were transferred to intensive care, one tested negative for the virus and one stopped the treatment because of nausea. Those failures were simply dropped from the study’s statistics.

The Centers for Disease Control described Raoult’s work as “a small study” that reported “hydroxychloroquine alone or in combination with azithromycin reduced detection of” the coronavirus “in upper respiratory tract specimens compared with a non-randomized control group but did not assess clinical benefit.” (NOTE: the worst effects of COVID take place in the lower respiratory tract, i.e. the lungs - DB)

As Matthew Herper of Stat News explained, “three-quarters of the time, medicines against infectious disease that looked promising in small studies either were ineffective or had side effects that made them unusable” after larger clinical trials."

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Hospital in Brazil proceeding with trial use of chloroquine on COVID-19 patients. Again you'll need to right click on the article to translate...

https://www.focus.jor.br/hospital-albert-einstein-vai-testar-a-hidroxicloroquina-contra-o-covid-19/

Prevent Senior and Sociedade Beneficente Israelita Brasileira Albert Einstein decided to test the use of the drug chloroquine against Covid-19. According to Exame magazine, Einstein reported that it is preparing a research protocol for tests on the effectiveness of the drug hydroxychloroquine (variant of chloroquine) in the treatment of Covid-19.

More reference to its use in China and France...

The drugs have shown positive results in studies by researchers from China and France. However, there is still a lack of scientific studies and clinical tests for the drugs to be considered safe for treating large-scale cases of Covid-19.

That last sentence highlighted to remind people that no one is claiming victory or telling you to ignore this pandemic. Still just sharing optimistic early word on these drugs.

 

[Ilov80s]

They send their kids to camp

Sounds like there could be a lot of money to be made in extended camps then this year. Also, I think as a society we can lighten up on the age we allow kids to stay home. With cell phones, internet, cams, etc. kids should be capable of staying home at younger ages than ever but we seem to have gone the opposite way. That’s a total digression though. 

 

[Chemical X]

This is one of the links I posted last week with the highly regarded French study...

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-researcher-in-Marseille-posts-successful-Covid-19-coronavirus-drug-trial-results

US academic study concurs...

The presentation made by the French research professor behind the study is available HERE

I saw some info about the French dude.  I believe I saw that 1 person died of the 24 while in his study, making his mortality rate 4%.  I am a skeptic based on a 1 week trial of 24 people.  That's just me.

 

[tamales]

Sounds like there could be a lot of money to be made in extended camps then this year. Also, I think as a society we can lighten up on the age we allow kids to stay home. With cell phones, internet, cams, etc. kids should be capable of staying home at younger ages than ever but we seem to have gone the opposite way. That’s a total digression though. 

Wtf is the difference between the kids going to school or extended camp?

 

[Ilov80s]

Wtf is the difference between the kids going to school or extended camp?

School is mandatory 

 

[Chemical X]

Noah Syndergaard needs TJ surgery........

 

[glock]

This is why containment generally doesn't work. 

"All I know is I've been stuck inside for a week (except for bagelgate) and I can tell you I would definitely start doing those things again ASAP. IMO this is no way to live. My son needs an education, I need to be with my work colleagues, and my son needs to be involved in sports again. This is no way to live. Just wash your hands, cover your mouth, stay home when sick, and don't touch your face. All these things we should be doing anyway. "

 

[Redwes25]

Something I was wondering about in regards to testing. We’ve been hanging onto the official govt releases of numbers.  Obviously I do this all the time. 
 

But what if they are hopelessly wrong?  Right now Italy is dealing with 700 new dead people and jam packed full hospitals. Are they testing with the same fervor as they were? Or have medical resources been routed to the icu areas?  
 

Just a thought.

Imagine they are testing at a lower level/just serious cases as case mortality rate is very high there.  There most be mild cases they aren't test and people recovering at home that aren't going to a healthcare system that can't even handle serious cases. Even with these facts  I think number of cases are still helpful since what they are testing (which probably hasn't changed much in a week or two show a flattening of curve and I also read hospital admissions are down.

 

[NotSmart]

First, some good news: The Journal of Critical Care, to which your linked paper was submitted for publication (but not yet published), is a legitimate scientific journal. The articles published in that journal will be peer-reviewed as a prerequisite to publication.
 

Now, for the lengthy list of cons (spoilered for length):

Spoiler

- The paper linked is not a study --

it is an aggregation of existing articles. See the Methods section on page 1: "We performed a systematic review of the PubMed and EMBASE databases from inception to 1 March 2020 to find articles providing information on the efficacy and safety of chloroquine and chloroquine-related formulations in patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia and articles describing related in-vitro studies."

- In their Results section (my capital lettering) : "[We] found six relevant articles (A. one narrative letter, B. one research letter, C. one editorial, D. one expert consensus paper in Chinese, E. one national guideline document in Dutch and one in Italian). F. Twenty-three trials were found in the trial registries."

In order:

- A. From their Discussion section, pg 3: "A narrative letter by Chinese authors reported that a news briefing from the State Council of China had indicated that 'Chloroquine phosphate...had demonstrated marked efficacy and acceptable safety in treating COVID-19 associated pneumonia in multicentre clinical trials conducted in China' [5]. The authors also stated that these findings came from 'more than 100 patients' included in the trials [5]. We sought for evidence of such data in the trial registries we reviewed and found none."

The authors are too kind. I inserted the links to the cited article (the [5]s) -- please click on them and note that the reference is to an abstract and references, void of any actual experiment whatsoever. Not much better than a "Terms of Service" dead link.


- B. From their Discussion section, pg 3: "The research letter, written by a group of Chinese researchers, studied the effect of chloroquine in vitro, using Vero E6 cells infected by SARS-CoV-2 at a multiplicity of infection (MOI) of 0.05. The study demonstrated that chloroquine was highly effective in reducing viral replication, with an Effective Concentration (EC)90of 6.90μM that can be easily achievable with standard dosing, due to its favourable penetration in tissues, including in the lung. ... The authors also speculated on the possibility that the known immunomodulant effect of the drug may enhance the antiviral effect in vivo."

- C. From their Discussion section, pg 3: "The Editorial written by French researchers, underlined the in-vitro efficacy of chloroquine in other viral infections, especially SARS (whose disappearance resulted in limited further research). They also discussed the potentially favourable risk-benefit balance, the high safety, and the low expenditure of such treatment in the context of the current COVID-19 outbreak."

One of the authors of this editorial, Dr. Didier Raoult, has been mentioned and discussed in this thread. He is a legitimate and noted researcher in the field of infectious diseases. Subsequent to this editorial, he was part of a team that conducted a limited trial (>30 patients) of a therapy combining hydroxychloroquine and the popular antibiotic azithromycin.

While initially being touted as a promising set of results, Raoult's methods in achieving those results proved questionable under further scrutiny (The Intercept, 3/24/2020):

- D. From their Discussion section, pg 3-4: "The expert consensus was published on 20th February by a multicentre collaboration group of the Department of Science and Technology of Guangdong Province and Health Commission of Guangdong Province paper and related specifically to the use of chloroquinephosphate [7] (NOTE: Dead Google Scholar link - DB). No information was provided on the method used to achieve consensus [7]. Based on in vitro evidence and still unpublished clinical experience, the panel recommended chloroquine phosphate tablet, at a dose of 500 mg twice per day for 10 days, for patients diagnosed as mild, moderate and severe cases ..."

Chloroquine phosphate, meant for parasite control in fish tanks, is what killed a man in Arizona this past weekend (NBC News, 3/23/2020).

- E. From their Discussion section, pg 4: "The Dutch Center of Disease control (CDC), in a public document on its website (NOTE: not anymore - DB), suggested to treat severe infections requiring admission to the hospital and oxygen therapy or admitted to the ICU with chloroquine, [8] (NOTE: another dead link - DB). However, the document also stated that treating patients only with optimal supportive care is still a reasonable option, due to lack of supportive evidence."

"Another guideline document by the Italian Society of Infectious and Tropical disease (Lombardy section) recommend the use of chlorochine 500 mg × 2/die or hydroxychloroquine 200 mg die for 10 days, although the treatment may vary from 5 to 20 days according to clinical severity. The suggested target population ranged from patients with mild respiratory symptoms and comorbidities to patients with severe respiratory failure [9]." (NOTE: yep -- yet another dead link - DB)

- F. The chart about the incipient trials is interesting, but note that everything they cited is from March 1st and earlier (see Methods, pg 1). See the second column in the trials chart (pgs 2-3 here) titled 'Recruiting Status'. That column shows that not a one of those 23 trials had even begun -- all statuses shown were either 'Pre-approval', 'Not yet recruiting' or 'Recruiting'. None of the 23 were underway as of 3/1.

That took some time and effort, thanks.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Definitely not the forum but I assure you many do not share this opinion in any of the circles I frequent around Mar-A-Lago 

Some find comfort in him promoting potential vaccines or treatments, his optimism about getting people back to work ASAP is a terrific message. You keep people at home long enough and a bunch will never go back, lot of folks are lazy and there's a reason unemployment was as low as it was. 

Don't want to derail this thread, I've tried hard to go with the flow of folks, there's some other threads where you can spread your wings a bit more but it certainly isn't to talk politics #11, good luck!

A cheerleader.  Many people are down with that over facts and figures.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Do we know that? That’s fair, even if it seems counterintuitive. I worked at a school that a norovorus outbreak and it was crazy how quickly that thing spread.

Few more things on this. Kids not really being carriers isn't unprecedented. I believe it is the same with SARS and MERS. 

Then there is this...

Even when we looked at households, we did not find a single example of a child bringing the infection into the household and transmitting to the parents.

There is also the head of the WHO Global outbreak response network...

Neither is there evidence to show that the young are vectors or spreaders of the virus," he said. "The reverse appears to be the case, where the young get infected by adults at home.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

I saw some info about the French dude.  I believe I saw that 1 person died of the 24 while in his study, making his mortality rate 4%.  I am a skeptic based on a 1 week trial of 24 people.  That's just me.

Have you stopped to consider that the patient was too far along in his deterioration from coronavirus to be saved by the drug. Because I think that's what happened. I'm still not seeing any new studies saying the drugs have stopped being administered in any of these places due to lack of effectiveness. I hope it stays that way.

 

[tamales]

"All I know is I've been stuck inside for a week (except for bagelgate) and I can tell you I would definitely start doing those things again ASAP. IMO this is no way to live. My son needs an education, I need to be with my work colleagues, and my son needs to be involved in sports again. This is no way to live. Just wash your hands, cover your mouth, stay home when sick, and don't touch your face. All these things we should be doing anyway. "

Not really sure what you're getting at. I left the house once in the last 10 days for takeout. 

 

[adonis]

A cheerleader.  Many people are down with that over facts and figures.

Not a whole lot of cheerleaders in battles during a war.  Wonder why that is.

 

[skol asylum]

Stop buying all our tp!

 

[Doug B]

This is one of the links I posted last week with the highly regarded French study...

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-researcher-in-Marseille-posts-successful-Covid-19-coronavirus-drug-trial-results

US academic study concurs...

No U.S. academic study concurs this -- media worldwide got taken in by essentially a false paper put on Google Docs and since retracted due to Terms of Service violation. It's the same paper we debunked in this thread earlier today.

Note the ConnexionFrance.com article's quote about the "American study" (suspiciously not linked or cited, to boot):

It said: “Use of chloroquine (tablets) is showing favorable outcomes in humans infected with Coronavirus including faster time to recovery and shorter hospital stay…

OK, so I wanted to find that "American study". Since the French article purports to quote directly from the "American study", I set out to Google the quote: “Use of chloroquine (tablets) is showing favorable outcomes in humans infected with Coronavirus including faster time to recovery and shorter hospital stay"

I found that The Motley Fool also mentioned the same "American study" in a recent article, but also without citation. Hmmm.

Finally, I found a reference to this same study, still no link but this time with the names of the researchers. Yes! I was getting somewhere. But ...

... the reference was on Breitbart.

And the "researchers" were James M. Todaro and Gregory J. Rigano. Oh boy ... those names again -- the link to their study given in the Breitbart article.

"We're sorry. You can't access this item because it is in violation of our Terms of Service."

...

Yet another link to the "American study", same "researchers" listed.,

 

[Ilov80s]

Few more things on this. Kids not really being carriers isn't unprecedented. I believe it is the same with SARS and MERS. 

Then there is this...

There is also the head of the WHO Global outbreak response network...

That certainly makes a good preliminary case for opening schools 

 

[MTskibum]

Back at it...

Starting with this article from South Korea dating back to February...

Physicians work out treatment guidelines for coronavirus

Just got back, so I'll continue to try and locate more direct links with full transcript of the studies like this one rather than summaries.

This makes me even more worried. This article predates the peak of cases in South Korea by two weeks and yet if you compare their recovered verse not, they have a 3% mortality rate. If they were already trying that treatment it may not have helped much.

 

[Chemical X]

Have you stopped to consider that the patient was too far along in his deterioration from coronavirus to be saved by the drug. Because I think that's what happened. I'm still not seeing any new studies saying the drugs have stopped being administered in any of these places due to lack of effectiveness. I hope it stays that way.

Yeah, that's why that study is flimsy IMO.  No idea about conditions, patients or otherwise.

 

[Doug B]

Belgium is using hydroxychloroquine for mild, medium, and severe stages of the virus. You'll have to right click on the article and translate to English. They began using it on March 13th ...

Belgium is basically doing what New York City is doing. We will see if hydroxychloroquine pays off there or not.

 

[glock]

Not really sure what you're getting at. I left the house once in the last 10 days for takeout. 

Looking at being stuck in one's house/property for two whole weeks as being the end of the world instead of doing what's needed to save it. 

THAT is what is going to undo those two weeks of "effort."

 

[skol asylum]

I saw some info about the French dude.  I believe I saw that 1 person died of the 24 while in his study, making his mortality rate 4%.  I am a skeptic based on a 1 week trial of 24 people.  That's just me.

Not 100% sure if she was speaking of this study but there was an expert on CNN a bit ago who said they looked at the study and we're very discouraged by it. They said multiple studies of antivirals are on going.

 

[Doug B]

Still just sharing optimistic early word on these drugs.

All good.

The circular references to the "American study" -- many without citations -- is just such a giant red flag. Charitably, perhaps there are many in the media and in the sciences that want to be able to say they were "first". First to know, first to publish, first to confirm, and so on. But, darn it, we just aren't there yet. 10,000 articles won't establish that.

 

[shader]

In Brazil, the govt won’t enforce a lockdown, so the gangs are.

https://twitter.com/andrewcesare/status/1242174265547468803?s=21

 

[Doug B]

China currently has 32 registered ongoing trials of chloroquine...

This was never in doubt. "Official protocol" was in doubt.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

next thing you tell me @LHUCKS still roams this forum 

Let's not rock the apple cart in here, people's nerves are shot. 

 

[Doug B]

Doctor in India sharing their country's current treatment protocol...

https://twitter.com/DrGvenkatasai/status/1241870609593724928

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETwCumMVAAEzb3b?format=jpg&name=large

Hydroxychloroquine being used to treat moderate to severe cases

Open up the document in another tab and blow it up. There are three experimental medicines that "may be considered", hydroxychloroquine being one.

But I'll grant you ... it appears to be an official protocol. Again, let's hope for better and more conclusive results going forward.

EDIT: An official protocol of one medical school in New Delhi, India anyway. But that is something,

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Doctor in New York is claiming that his team has treated 500 coronavirus patients around the New York area with the following results...

Of this group and the information provided to me by affiliated medical teams, we have had ZERO deaths, ZERO hospitalizations, and ZERO intubations. In addition, I have not heard of any negative side effects other than approximately 10% of patients with temporary nausea and diarrhea.

Here's a copy of the letter he wrote where he spells out his treatment regimen and his claimed results...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SesxgaPnpT6OfCYuaFSwXzDK4cDKMbivoALprcVFj48/edit

 

[Statorama]

Definitely not the forum but I assure you many do not share this opinion in any of the circles I frequent around Mar-A-Lago 

Some find comfort in him promoting potential vaccines or treatments, his optimism about getting people back to work ASAP is a terrific message. You keep people at home long enough and a bunch will never go back, lot of folks are lazy and there's a reason unemployment was as low as it was. 

Don't want to derail this thread, I've tried hard to go with the flow of folks, there's some other threads where you can spread your wings a bit more but it certainly isn't to talk politics #11, good luck!

It doesn't help that there's a lot of misinformation related to how Trump has handled the pandemic.  

Top 10 Lies about US response to the Corona Virus

There were a couple in there that I had just taken at face value as the truth.  It was good to hear some facts knocking those down as misinformation.

 

[skol asylum]

Doctor in New York is claiming that his team has treated 500 coronavirus patients around the New York area with the following results...

Here's a copy of the letter he wrote where he spells out his treatment regimen and his claimed results...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SesxgaPnpT6OfCYuaFSwXzDK4cDKMbivoALprcVFj48/edit

Please be real. We need this.

 

[joffer]

The west African countries where ebola hit are going to be a bad spot too

 

[skol asylum]

The one thing I question is he says these results are since treatment began last Thursday. That's a very short time period. What will patients look like in a week? A month?

 

[shader]

According to a fox business reporter, It appears the stimulus package is going to be between 6 and 10 trillion.

https://twitter.com/cgasparino/status/1242550843657814019?s=21

 

[Doug B]

I was able to find the treatment guide China has issued...

https://covid-19.alibabacloud.com/

About a 1/4 down the page linked above there's a READ NOW button. On page 24 of the handbook, (page 29 of the pdf) you'll see that China is using chloroquine as a treatment.

From pg 29 of that handbook:

Antiviral Treatment
At FAHZU, lopinavir/ritonavir (2 capsules, po q12h) combined with arbidol (200 mg po q12h) were applied as the basic regimen. From the treatment experience of 49 patients in our hospital, the average time to achieve negative viral nucleic acid test for the first time was 12 days (95% CI: 8-15 days). The duration of negative nucleic acid test result (negative for more than 2 times consecutively with interval ˫ 24h) was 13.5 days (95% CI: 9.5 - 17.5 days).

If the basic regimen is not effective, chloroquine phosphate can be used on adults between 18-65 years old (weight ˫ 50 kg: 500 mg bid; weight ˪50 kg: 500 mg bid for first two days, 500 mg qd for following five days).

Interferon nebulization is recommended in Protocols for Diagnosis and Treatment of COVID-19. We recommend that it should be performed in negative-pressure wards rather than general wards due to the possibility of aerosol transmission.

Darunavir/cobicistat has some degree of antiviral activity in viral suppression test in vitro, based on the treatment experience of AIDS patients, and the adverse events are relatively mild. For patients who are intolerant to lopinavir/ritonavir, darunavir/ cobici-stat (1 tablet qd) or favipiravir (starting dose of 1600 mg followed by 600 mg tid) is an alternative option after the ethical review. Simultaneous use of three or more antiviral drugs is not recommended.

While that still isn't an official protocol of the Chinese version of the CDC ... it is, again, something that one hospital did codify these recommendations for experimental treatments (in red). Guess we'll see what comes of it.

 

[Statorama]

According to a fox business reporter, It appears the stimulus package is going to be between 6 and 10 trillion.

All I know is that if the stimulus doesn't have gender and ethnicity quotas for corporate boards and ballot harvesting provisions, I'm going to be pissed off.

 

[Doug B]

First, some good news: The Journal of Critical Care, to which your linked paper was submitted for publication (but not yet published), is a legitimate scientific journal. The articles published in that journal will be peer-reviewed as a prerequisite to publication.
 

Now, for the lengthy list of cons (spoilered for length):

Spoiler

- The paper linked is not a study --

it is an aggregation of existing articles. See the Methods section on page 1: "We performed a systematic review of the PubMed and EMBASE databases from inception to 1 March 2020 to find articles providing information on the efficacy and safety of chloroquine and chloroquine-related formulations in patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia and articles describing related in-vitro studies."

- In their Results section (my capital lettering) : "[We] found six relevant articles (A. one narrative letter, B. one research letter, C. one editorial, D. one expert consensus paper in Chinese, E. one national guideline document in Dutch and one in Italian). F. Twenty-three trials were found in the trial registries."

In order:

- A. From their Discussion section, pg 3: "A narrative letter by Chinese authors reported that a news briefing from the State Council of China had indicated that 'Chloroquine phosphate...had demonstrated marked efficacy and acceptable safety in treating COVID-19 associated pneumonia in multicentre clinical trials conducted in China' [5]. The authors also stated that these findings came from 'more than 100 patients' included in the trials [5]. We sought for evidence of such data in the trial registries we reviewed and found none."

The authors are too kind. I inserted the links to the cited article (the [5]s) -- please click on them and note that the reference is to an abstract and references, void of any actual experiment whatsoever. Not much better than a "Terms of Service" dead link.


- B. From their Discussion section, pg 3: "The research letter, written by a group of Chinese researchers, studied the effect of chloroquine in vitro, using Vero E6 cells infected by SARS-CoV-2 at a multiplicity of infection (MOI) of 0.05. The study demonstrated that chloroquine was highly effective in reducing viral replication, with an Effective Concentration (EC)90of 6.90μM that can be easily achievable with standard dosing, due to its favourable penetration in tissues, including in the lung. ... The authors also speculated on the possibility that the known immunomodulant effect of the drug may enhance the antiviral effect in vivo."

- C. From their Discussion section, pg 3: "The Editorial written by French researchers, underlined the in-vitro efficacy of chloroquine in other viral infections, especially SARS (whose disappearance resulted in limited further research). They also discussed the potentially favourable risk-benefit balance, the high safety, and the low expenditure of such treatment in the context of the current COVID-19 outbreak."

One of the authors of this editorial, Dr. Didier Raoult, has been mentioned and discussed in this thread. He is a legitimate and noted researcher in the field of infectious diseases. Subsequent to this editorial, he was part of a team that conducted a limited trial (>30 patients) of a therapy combining hydroxychloroquine and the popular antibiotic azithromycin.

While initially being touted as a promising set of results, Raoult's methods in achieving those results proved questionable under further scrutiny (The Intercept, 3/24/2020):

- D. From their Discussion section, pg 3-4: "The expert consensus was published on 20th February by a multicentre collaboration group of the Department of Science and Technology of Guangdong Province and Health Commission of Guangdong Province paper and related specifically to the use of chloroquinephosphate [7] (NOTE: Dead Google Scholar link - DB). No information was provided on the method used to achieve consensus [7]. Based on in vitro evidence and still unpublished clinical experience, the panel recommended chloroquine phosphate tablet, at a dose of 500 mg twice per day for 10 days, for patients diagnosed as mild, moderate and severe cases ..."

Chloroquine phosphate, meant for parasite control in fish tanks, is what killed a man in Arizona this past weekend (NBC News, 3/23/2020).

- E. From their Discussion section, pg 4: "The Dutch Center of Disease control (CDC), in a public document on its website (NOTE: not anymore - DB), suggested to treat severe infections requiring admission to the hospital and oxygen therapy or admitted to the ICU with chloroquine, [8] (NOTE: another dead link - DB). However, the document also stated that treating patients only with optimal supportive care is still a reasonable option, due to lack of supportive evidence."

"Another guideline document by the Italian Society of Infectious and Tropical disease (Lombardy section) recommend the use of chlorochine 500 mg × 2/die or hydroxychloroquine 200 mg die for 10 days, although the treatment may vary from 5 to 20 days according to clinical severity. The suggested target population ranged from patients with mild respiratory symptoms and comorbidities to patients with severe respiratory failure [9]." (NOTE: yep -- yet another dead link - DB)

- F. The chart about the incipient trials is interesting, but note that everything they cited is from March 1st and earlier (see Methods, pg 1). See the second column in the trials chart (pgs 2-3 here) titled 'Recruiting Status'. That column shows that not a one of those 23 trials had even begun -- all statuses shown were either 'Pre-approval', 'Not yet recruiting' or 'Recruiting'. None of the 23 were underway as of 3/1.

That took some time and effort, thanks.

Just as much for the benefit of the house as anyone else. This stuff has to be taken in very critically. Lots of stuff being published/put online and a lot of it is fluff or junk. Looks like a million bucks ... PhDs in the bylines, plenty of numbered citations, professional formatting -- and yet lacking substance.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

The one thing I question is he says these results are since treatment began last Thursday. That's a very short time period. What will patients look like in a week? A month?

Many nations are very recently beginning their use of chloroquine and hydroxyquine, including the U.S. That's why no one can celebrate anything just yet. Simply having a drug to turn to, that appears to be working, is nonetheless a tremendous step in the right direction.

 

[JaxBill]

So I'm going to have to be the Bad Guy today. Several of my buddies and I were scheduled to meet this weekend in a state park in GA and go glamping in a cabin.

There's 3 of us from FL, one from suburban GA, and one from NC. 

They're all gung ho about this.  I voiced some reservations about this last week.

I've been waiting for GA to close their state parks or FL to announce a shelter in place to take me off the hook.

Also, if I went through with the trip, i think the Navy would require me to self isolate for 14 days upon return.

i think Wet Blanket time is this afternoon.  I'll tell them I'll still pay my share if they want to go without me.

I dropped the hammer. I mostly blamed it on the Navy but added I didnt see it as anywhere near the risk.  Percentages are probably low, but fallout could be massive yadda yadda. 

initial resistance, mostly silence after.  no idea if rest are still going.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

After that guy died you have since been on absolute chloroquine crusade. 

Very entertaining.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Just as much for the benefit of the house as anyone else. This stuff has to be taken in very critically. Lots of stuff being published/put online and a lot of it is fluff or junk. Looks like a million bucks ... PhDs in the bylines, plenty of numbered citations, professional formatting -- and yet lacking substance.

Wow. So there's nothing to be drawn from so many different countries publishing guidelines advising the use of these same drugs because of their positive early results?

How many times does a person have to pair the sharing of these documents with also saying these are hopeful early signs, not reason to consider this pandemic over and done with? With that caveat I keep repeating, I just don't see the rationale behind trying to squash optimism.

Your response would be expected if I was making bold proclamations that we should all go back to life as normal. That's not the case here.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

After that guy died you have since been on absolute chloroquine crusade. 

Very entertaining.

I was sharing reports of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine last week - and before Trump uttered one word about them.

But you do you. People like you have won.

I've posted my last link about treatments being used on coronavirius. People can seek out whatever reason for optimism or pessimism on their own.