*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (7 Viewers)

[Biff84]

A not-peer reviewed, not formal, not presented, not accepted by any task force document.  Its a huge difference if the administration /is saying/ that there will be 3k deaths a day.  What if a memo was leaked which said 300 deaths a day.  Would people also believe that one?  Follow the numbers.

Ive read the memo's.  Im not saying the numbers are wrong, im saying I disagree with them and Im providing a basis for that.  Im a monday morning wanna be, didnt stay at a holiday inn express, nobody who has his own opinion which is worth nothing.  That said, I am showing my work.

I’m hoping it’s wrong and that we are at our peak and a decline is coming with states opening responsibly this summer without a significant spike.

 

[CurlyNight]

I think she is just mocking the fact that Carnival is supposedly all set to offer cruises the moment any restrictions are lifted

 

[CurlyNight]

So what is the State order on beaches?  Santa Cruz closes from 11-5 to keep the Valleys away.  Some counties way up north have zero beach restrictions, but Gvin shut Huntington down.

I think he's left that to the mayors but is watching. If it's nuts then he'll order it closed. He trusts that the mayors know better what's going on in their own cities than he does.

 

[shader]

Seems like whenever some positive news is posted, it is immediately trashed. Steps in the right direction are happening. Those are the things I am focusing on.

I haven’t seen positive news trashed in this thread.  Assuming it’s accurate, it’s welcomed by everyone.

 

[Summerofgeorge]

I agree that many restaurants would do this, but also many wouldn't. I'm guessing larger chain restaurants would be more likely to do this.

But personally, and I'd think a lot of other smaller, locally owned places, I would never rat them out to the employment commission to get them back to work. We're like a family, so we take the same approach as if it were family. I am so incredibly thankful they've got some good help from unemployment right now. I'm not about to threaten to put that in jeopardy for them. 

I still have no idea when we'll open back up, and obviously, the generous unemployment will delay it. But that's fine. The staff can eat and pay their bills without risking their health? So thankful for that.

I've told the staff they'll never be compelled to come back. I only want them to come back when they feel safe to do it, and they won't lose their job long-term for waiting. The fight back from this will an incredibly difficult one, and I'm going to need people all-in to make it. Them knowing I've got their back at all times, hopefully, means they'll have mine. 

And when we re-open, it'll surely be at reduced hours anyway, so they could still get some of the unemployment. 

But a bigger chain, I'm sure they'd rat an employee out to the employment commission, but employees are just replaceable pawns there anyway. 

I don’t think it’s about “ratting an employee out” , I think it’s about having staff to re open.

At least that’s what started this convo in here 

 

[Tolstoy]

probably not safe here, but if you haven't seen the video of Governor Jim Justice from yesterday, check it out

 

[BobbyLayne]

I guess living in NYC really alters my view of how people are reacting but I really don't like how many parts of the country are beginning to treat this, as if it's over and time to get back to normal. I understand the desire to do it but we can't drop our guard yet. Thankfully, the warmer weather might help minimize the damage but it really seems to be setting up a repeat of the Spanish Flu second wave in the fall. I really hope I'm wrong.

I am just outside Detroit and as you see on the news, most everyone around here seems ready to loosen up a bit. 

The relaxation of shelter in place doesn’t mean it’s safe. It just means they have an ICU bed available for you.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Too preliminary and not tested in humans. Major traditional media sources will not ignore truly game-changing, corroborated and vetted scientific news.

You can pretty much count on 999 out 1,000 "good news" science articles you read not really describing anything of ultimate consequence. If sports journalism were like science journalism, you have a lot of articles with headlines like these:

"Elliot takes handoff cleanly from Prescott, 80-yard TD run possible"

"Curry's form perfect on opening trey as Warriors take 3-0 1st quarter lead; win over Lakers virtually certain"

"Kershaw throws 8 consecutive strikes during warmups, Giants face impending loss to Dodgers ace"

Thank you. How much does it help that these are fully human antibodies? How big of a step is this towards a vaccine?

 

[jplvr]

I haven’t seen positive news trashed in this thread.  Assuming it’s accurate, it’s welcomed by everyone.

Trashed? No. Any positive news has been met with the highest of skepticism, and any negative news receives less criticism or scrutiny. In conservative circles, the opposite is true.

 

[jplvr]

DP

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Exactly.  Sure it's good news, but it doesn't affect our lives at this point.  I think we all expect the medical industry to eventually come up with solutions to this and I'm glad they are working hard to do so.  In the meantime, discussions around masks and an imminent second wave seem like more pressing matters.

If the medical industry is going to eventually come up with solutions there will be a starting point, no? Better to see those steps now than much later, no? In the meantime, I don't believe people are running around saying we don't need to take precautions because they found an antibody that kills this in a lab, no?

 

[Doug B]

Thank you. How much does it help that these are fully human antibodies? How big of a step is this towards a vaccine?

If the development of a for-sure working vaccine were likened to a marathon race ... the Dutch antibody study is like a single nice, clean stride somewhere during Mile 2.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Trashed? No. Any positive news has been met with the highest of skepticism, and any negative news receives less criticism or scrutiny. In conservative circles, the opposite is true.

Not really.  Many people in here are skeptical about all of it.

 

[BobbyLayne]

West Virginia Gov Jim Justice’s guidelines to business

(headphones not speakers)

 

[shader]

Trashed? No. Any positive news has been met with the highest of skepticism, and any negative news receives less criticism or scrutiny. In conservative circles, the opposite is true.

I didn't know we were taking sides in this thread.  Is this a "liberal" circle?  We've tried to keep politics out of this.  

 

[shader]

Not really.  Many people in here are skeptical about all of it.

I'm one of those.  I'll own that.  But then, my definition of "good news" might be different than others.  For me, good news would be that Tennessee decides to go back and do a 3-week lockdown effective today. 

 

[[scooter]]

West Virginia Gov Jim Justice’s guidelines to business

(headphones not speakers)

That's funny, but it sounds like he just tripped over his words.

He's combining "if they follow" and "if they can follow" and it comes across as "if they f-can follow".

 

[jplvr]

I didn't know we were taking sides in this thread.  Is this a "liberal" circle?  We've tried to keep politics out of this.  

Yes, but this board runs more liberal than conservative. 

 

[proteus126]

In WWII, GM produced an A-24 bomber every 63 minutes around the clock.

US industry turned out the goods, but not right off the bat.

The US entered WWII more shamefully unprepared than we were for COVID.  We knew war was coming, but still managed to be unprepared.  For SIX MONTHS German u-boat sank everything that moved along the east cost, even though we were well aware of their potential through our observation of Britain's struggles.

It took the entire Guadalcanal campaign (into early 1943) to figure out logistics in the Pacific.  Getting a marine division someplace was a tremendous challenge for a long time.  Ditto fuel, food, medical, aircraft.  Because we were behind the curve, and lacking wherewithal.

When you let events in a deteriorating situation get ahead of you, progress in catching up seems glacial.  Not all the goodwill in the world will fix it overnight.  Patience.

Lastly, it helps when everyone agrees on the best way to fight the war.  With COVID, that is not the case.  Personally, I disagree with the more cautious members here, but I understand your reasons, and you may be right.  Personally, I think this thing will have to run its course - I doubt a vaccine comes fast enough and I doubt major breakthroughs in treatment will manifest.  Maybe leronlimab, or nicotine, or vitamin D...  While the disease is running its course, we want to keep the vulnerable sheltered (if they so choose) while the low-risk get exposed through normal commercial and schooling activities.  We want the number of new cases to be high enough to move towards herd immunity fairly rapidly, but not so high that excess mortality is incurred due to localized medical system breakdowns.  All well and good - the above just makes sense to me - but we really just don't have a good grip on THE NUMBERS.  Infuriating.  So I'll have to remain mentally flexible in case information (our best understanding at the moment) changes.  One big value for SIP is it was supposed to give us time to get answers.  Slow progress on that front...

 

[the moops]

In the meantime, I don't believe people are running around saying we don't need to take precautions because they found an antibody that kills this in a lab, no?

Correct. People are running around saying we don't need to take precautions because they think this thing is a hoax

 

[shader]

Pretty sad indictment on the state of antibody testing 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-05/coronavirus-antibody-tests-may-produce-contradictory-results

 

[VT700GUY]

I was wrong. Why are so so averse to wearing a mask?

I feel like I have explained myself fairly well on that in previous posts.  If there is a specific point of my explanation you would like clarification on I would be happy to do so.

 

[eoMMan]

Not sure how this will work out....

Poker room set to reopen on May 11

by: Justin Schecker

Posted: May 3, 2020 / 11:13 PM EDT / Updated: May 3, 2020 / 11:18 PM EDT

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (WFLA) – A Tampa Bay poker room set to open up next week could be one of the first that reopens in the country.

Derby Lane announced on its website that it will restart live greyhound racing on Friday, May 8 and the card room will open with limited operations on Monday, May 11.

A regular poker player at Derby Lane reached out to 8 On Your Side because he thinks it is too risky to reopen so soon.

“When I play in normal games, we’re elbow to elbow and we’re exchanging chips,” Marvin Karlins said.

Karlins, a USF professor of management, told 8 on Your Side he is not concerned about racing resuming later this week.

“The racing side is no problem because they’ve got plenty of room there,” he said.

But Karlins said a poker room cannot safely reopen during the COVID-19 pandemic.

“Poker is the petri dish of pandemics,” he said. “It is extremely dangerous. As much as I love the game, I’d hate to have a winning hand and lose my life over it.”

8 On Your Side has learned a week from Monday, Derby Lane plans to open 13 of 52 (25 percent) of tables in the card room.

“St. Petersburg Kennel Club, Inc., whole-heartedly believes in the safety and wellbeing of its employees and guests are of utmost importance, too. We will require that all CDC and local restrictions be strictly enforced at all times,” Derby Lane Marketing, Web & Social Media Coordinator Alexis Winning said in an email to 8 On Your Side.

The email said the limit at Derby Lane poker tables will be six players. When the country’s most famous casinos in Las Vegas eventually reopen, the new norm will be a four person max per poker game.

“All players will be required to wear face masks and utilize hand protection e.g. gloves while on company property/and or hand sanitizer,” the email from Derby Lane said. “Players will have the option to use hand sanitizer in lieu of gloves if requested. Players that do not follow our social distancing requirements or act in a way that would cause concerns to other players will be asked to depart company property immediately.”

A May 1 letter sent to employees said positions will be eliminated when Derby Lane reopens with reduced operations.

“I feel bad because I know the people that are working there, the employees are out of work,” Karlins said.

Staff returning to work will have mandatory temperature checks and they’ll also be required to wear masks and gloves.

“Poker dealers will be excused from wearing gloves during the conduct of their duties but will have a container of hand sanitizer on their workstation,” the email from Derby Lane said.

8 On Your Side reached out to a spokesperson for the Seminole Hard Rock Hotels and Casinos. They have no set plans or date for when their casinos in Florida will reopen. They have been closed since March 20.

 

[prosopis]

It looks like my unemployment has been fixed? I see 5 weeks worth of money in there and it says I was paid today. I called a friend because I do not see the money in the bank yet. She told me it takes a couple of days to get there after DES pays you.

So it sounds like I am on the road to getting paid. It is not the pay I am used to but it will get us through this.

I thank you all for listening to my whining and for all the beautiful offers that came my way. This is a special place that I have found much comfort in. I really do not think I can say thank you enough.

 

[VT700GUY]

This part..why are you against wearing a mask?

I have already answered that question with multiple reasons, you are welcome to go back and read those posts if you want.  However, it quite simply boils down to the fact that I don't want to.  If the laws change in a way that require me to do so then I will comply to the extent I am required by law.

 

[VT700GUY]

This may have been answered, if so I'd appreciate if someone would point me to where I can find it.

Currently the U.S. confirmed infection rate is less than 1% of our total population.  I've heard numbers thrown around that say approximately 60-70% of the population need to have been infected by the virus for herd immunity.  It would appear that we are looking at months/years for that to happen.  There is no guarantee that we will ever have an effective vaccine.  So my question is for the lock down supporters.  How long do you propose we continue these lock downs?  Are you willing to wait years?

Does the fact that many stores have been open and packed during this entire pandemic with very little infections in many parts of the country make you wonder why that is?

 

[prosopis]

It looks like my unemployment has been fixed? I see 5 weeks worth of money in there and it says I was paid today. I called a friend because I do not see the money in the bank yet. She told me it takes a couple of days to get there after DES pays you.

So it sounds like I am on the road to getting paid. It is not the pay I am used to but it will get us through this.

I thank you all for listening to my whining and for all the beautiful offers that came my way. This is a special place that I have found much comfort in. I really do not think I can say thank you enough.

As I was typing this up I received a message on the marketplace to buy the portable air conditioner I was selling. I was asking $360.00, guy made an offer of $200.00 so I said sold!!!!!

That will help make some up.

 

[Payne]

The relaxation of shelter in place doesn’t mean it’s safe. It just means they have an ICU bed available for you.

Yeah, I'm ok with that. That's what social distancing was meant to do. Lessen the curve. Seems we accomplished that. So now it's time to open things up a bit to help the economy and mental health of this country. But some people claim we cannot do that yet. People are out of work. Businesses are closing. There has to be a point where you have to do this. 

 

[Possum]

I didn't know we were taking sides in this thread.  Is this a "liberal" circle?  We've tried to keep politics out of this.  

I think he's just pointing out how the vast majority of people's responses to this thing are so strongly aligned along political ideologies on both left and right. Unfortunately, like everything else in this country today, it's turned into our side and their side, and their side's always wrong.

it's frustrating to watch people digging in on their positions on both sides, despite the virus mostly still being such a giant unknown even at this point in the situation.

 

[Payne]

The best scientific minds in the world are working around the clock and with unprecedented cooperation to mitigate the spread, and to minimize severity, which will improve patient outlooks and reduce mortality month on month,

To be clear... Your answer is let it go wild so we reach herd immunity quickly, while mortality rates are higher than they will be as we progress?

You’re willing to condemn tens of thousands to death because you’re personally tired of the inconvenience? That about right?

You're not looking at the big picture. There is way more damage being done. Nobody wants to see people die. That's absurd to even suggest.

You didn't answer the question asked either. How long are you willing to have stores closed and people out of work and not feeding their families? That's a fair question.

 

[Payne]

Personally, I’m all for gradually opening up, but we still want to slow the spread as much as we can, even if we’re below the curve. Ergo sensible measures for the public good, which includes wearing masks in public, and respecting social distance, plus hand washing, not congregating in large groups, following orders for density of business, sanitation and so on. 

To be clear, I am simultaneously for:

• Opening up to the fullest extent that can be done safely
  
• While reducing unnecessary infection rates
  

Those not wearing masks because they want it to spread and get it over with know not what they’re doing, I’m afraid.

Completely agree with you here. 

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Personally, I’m all for gradually opening up, but we still want to slow the spread as much as we can, even if we’re below the curve. Ergo sensible measures for the public good, which includes wearing masks in public, and respecting social distance, plus hand washing, not congregating in large groups, following orders for density of business, sanitation and so on. 

To be clear, I am simultaneously for:

• Opening up to the fullest extent that can be done safely
  
• While reducing unnecessary infection rates
  

Those not wearing masks because they want it to spread and get it over with know not what they’re doing, I’m afraid.

Agreed. These things, and get back to work for everyone who possibly can.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

I have already answered that question with multiple reasons, you are welcome to go back and read those posts if you want.  However, it quite simply boils down to the fact that I don't want to.  If the laws change in a way that require me to do so then I will comply to the extent I am required by law.

Understood. Here's where some folks are coming from.

In Suffolk County NY, we've really shut it down hard since March 15th, no pretending. We went through the curve, we've suffered the hardships, and are legitimately are on the down side now. Nearly everyone wearing masks, etc. Then looking at the rest of the country, many didn't shut down until much later, many barely stayed at home, disdaining masks, and now they're opening back up. Still collected stimulus checks and unemployment though. They skipped all the steps, are the one's protesting, and calling it a NY problem. It's a NY problem because we actually suffered through a lot of deaths. 20,000 deaths!  State government needs help, have the main Senate guy saying "we're not bailing out blue states". Sorry for the political note, but sometimes it seems like NY is suffering hardcore and everyone else is complaining, and it sucks. From a NY perspective, I would agree that if your state has this under control, then get back to work. No more stimulus, no unemployment. Leave the resources for the places affected. I know NY isn't the only place, but it's the main place for this.

So wear your mask or don't, I guess that's an inconvenience for you. But please know that this is real for a lot of people. Like real deaths where everyone knows someone that has passed away kind of real. So we're wearing masks because we know people that have died. Hopefully it doesn't take that level of realism for other folks to get on board.

 

[Possum]

No I was just saying that what people are crying about here is nothing compared to some other countries. Sometimes too much freedom isn't a good thing, especially with something that could kill someone else from you being irresponsible. 

 
ok, if I misunderstood what you were saying there, I apologize - the tone of your posts made the message come across differently to me than you apparently intended.

 

[jobarules]

I haven’t seen positive news trashed in this thread.  Assuming it’s accurate, it’s welcomed by everyone.

Do you read your own posts? I kid I kid. Somewhat

 

[the moops]

@prosopis

 

[Tolstoy]

I'm not sure what they have been doing as far as policy, but Switzerland really seems to have squashed the spread of COVID in the last month - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/switzerland/

 

[RCon]

This may have been answered, if so I'd appreciate if someone would point me to where I can find it.

Currently the U.S. confirmed infection rate is less than 1% of our total population.  I've heard numbers thrown around that say approximately 60-70% of the population need to have been infected by the virus for herd immunity.  It would appear that we are looking at months/years for that to happen.  There is no guarantee that we will ever have an effective vaccine.  So my question is for the lock down supporters.  How long do you propose we continue these lock downs?  Are you willing to wait years?

Does the fact that many stores have been open and packed during this entire pandemic with very little infections in many parts of the country make you wonder why that is?

I think the answer to that is "until we have sufficient capability to perform testing and tracing to reopen safely".  As to what constitutes "sufficient", I would suggest we start with Dr. Fauci's numbers on required number of tests/day, or look to what other countries have successfully done in this area.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

I'm not sure what they have been doing as far as policy, but Switzerland really seems to have squashed the spread of COVID in the last month - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/switzerland/

That is low, flat and short. Good for Switzerland. Will look at their mitigation and testing policies. That info would actually be a solid addition to that Worldometers page. What mitigation strategies counties took and when, they already show when certain lockdown measures went into place. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

The WHA page I have been getting most of the info for my state has been a bit wonky the last couple days. Had some trouble loading it on multiple occasions. 

The reason I bring that up is because the last day or so has been quite good numbers wise and I dont want to think I am seeing great news and it turns out it is just a data issue or site issue, but the numbers look good if correct. 

1 death. Hospitalizations down to 309. Icu cases down to 91. 

 

[CurlyNight]

 
ok, if I misunderstood what you were saying there, I apologize - the tone of your posts made the message come across differently to me than you apparently intended.

Understand. At this time anxiety is a little high. I simply can't understand this mob like behaviour putting more people at risk. Want to protest? Get in your cars and drive on through. And the guns. Wow. Ptsd for me with our car being stopped and searched by the young nut jobs militia wanting to find something to get you with.

 

[lakerstan]

I have already answered that question with multiple reasons, you are welcome to go back and read those posts if you want.  However, it quite simply boils down to the fact that I don't want to.  If the laws change in a way that require me to do so then I will comply to the extent I am required by law.

Is your moral compass based on legal vs. not legal?  What about just doing the right thing?  What about thinking about and respecting others?

 

[VT700GUY]

I think the answer to that is "until we have sufficient capability to perform testing and tracing to reopen safely".  As to what constitutes "sufficient", I would suggest we start with Dr. Fauci's numbers on required number of tests/day, or look to what other countries have successfully done in this area.

What are Dr. Fauci's numbers?  What countries have been successful and what made them successful?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

West Virginia Gov Jim Justice’s guidelines to business

(headphones not speakers)

Channeling my mood here, with speakers.

 

[JAA]

US industry turned out the goods, but not right off the bat.

The US entered WWII more shamefully unprepared than we were for COVID.  We knew war was coming, but still managed to be unprepared.  For SIX MONTHS German u-boat sank everything that moved along the east cost, even though we were well aware of their potential through our observation of Britain's struggles.

It took the entire Guadalcanal campaign (into early 1943) to figure out logistics in the Pacific.  Getting a marine division someplace was a tremendous challenge for a long time.  Ditto fuel, food, medical, aircraft.  Because we were behind the curve, and lacking wherewithal.

When you let events in a deteriorating situation get ahead of you, progress in catching up seems glacial.  Not all the goodwill in the world will fix it overnight.  Patience.

Lastly, it helps when everyone agrees on the best way to fight the war.  With COVID, that is not the case.  Personally, I disagree with the more cautious members here, but I understand your reasons, and you may be right.  Personally, I think this thing will have to run its course - I doubt a vaccine comes fast enough and I doubt major breakthroughs in treatment will manifest.  Maybe leronlimab, or nicotine, or vitamin D...  While the disease is running its course, we want to keep the vulnerable sheltered (if they so choose) while the low-risk get exposed through normal commercial and schooling activities.  We want the number of new cases to be high enough to move towards herd immunity fairly rapidly, but not so high that excess mortality is incurred due to localized medical system breakdowns.  All well and good - the above just makes sense to me - but we really just don't have a good grip on THE NUMBERS.  Infuriating.  So I'll have to remain mentally flexible in case information (our best understanding at the moment) changes.  One big value for SIP is it was supposed to give us time to get answers.  Slow progress on that front...

I agree with everything you are saying. I’m ok with opening even more if we had adequate testing.  Not sure how long we will have to wait for adequate testing. 

 

[JAA]

This may have been answered, if so I'd appreciate if someone would point me to where I can find it.

Currently the U.S. confirmed infection rate is less than 1% of our total population.  I've heard numbers thrown around that say approximately 60-70% of the population need to have been infected by the virus for herd immunity.  It would appear that we are looking at months/years for that to happen.  There is no guarantee that we will ever have an effective vaccine.  So my question is for the lock down supporters.  How long do you propose we continue these lock downs?  Are you willing to wait years?

Does the fact that many stores have been open and packed during this entire pandemic with very little infections in many parts of the country make you wonder why that is?

The problem with using infection rate today is that we are not testing enough for the number to be valuable.  

 

[JAA]

What are Dr. Fauci's numbers?  What countries have been successful and what made them successful?

South Korea. Testing testing testing. 

 

[jplvr]

South Korea. Testing testing testing. 

We are testing at almost double what South Korea did per capita, but mostly because they stopped testing as much. All states are testing at that sort of level or higher now: 12k per 1 million pop.

 

[VT700GUY]

The problem with using infection rate today is that we are not testing enough for the number to be valuable.  

I agree with this 100%, there are likely far more cases than officially confirmed cases.

That being said if there are actually more cases than we realize why are our local hospitals ghosts towns?  

 

[Grahamburn]

Is your moral compass based on legal vs. not legal?  What about just doing the right thing?  What about thinking about and respecting others?

I don't understand the obsession with the masks.  Granted, I'm wearing one right now, and so is the rest of my staff.  It almost feels like an arbitrary measure to make others feel secure or "safe" though.  I'm not sick.  If I'm infected but asymptomatic then I'm also not sneezing or coughing.  Is a mask really stopping me from spreading this virus if I'm asymptomatic?  I'm touching everything in my office.  It seems social distancing and hand hygiene are much more viable weapons against covid. 

I imagine everyone in New York is wearing them, but some rural county with 5 cases and limited population density though?  What's the point?  It's like some kind of holier than thou observation of the mask wearers to point out the people who aren't.  If you're that terrified of the non-mask wearers at the grocery or hardware store you shouldn't be going in there in the first place.  Have your groceries and mulch delivered. 

There are plenty of arguments out there that wearing one could even make things worse due to the amount of times you touch your face throughout the day adjusting the damn thing.

Anyway, carry on demeaning the people who don't care about other's lives.