*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (16 Viewers)

[Doug B]

We Need to Talk About Ventilation. How is it that six months into a respiratory pandemic, we are still doing so little to mitigate airborne transmission?

Bumping this Atlantic article because everyone in this thread, following COVID-19 seriously, really should read this. It's not merely about ventilation alone ... it's a great summary of current consensus on COVID-19 spread and transmission mechanisms.

A lot of what people "know" about COVID-19 (less in this thread than in the wider world) is based on already-dated imperfect information that came out in January, February and March -- still based on what happened on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, still based on all those "lasts for days and days on surfaces!" studies, still based on that one building in Hong Kong where it was said to spread through the plumbing. Still based on "dogs and cats can spread it!", still based on "people have been touching your groceries!"

Spend 15 minutes on that article, and you get all caught up on four months of updated findings.

 

[Doug B]

Back to ventilation issues, here's an interesting tidbit from that Atlantic article:

When windows cannot be opened, classrooms could run portable HEPA filters, which are capable of trapping viruses this small, and which sell for as little as a few hundred dollars. Marr advises schools to measure airflow rates in each classroom, upgrade filters in the HVAC system to MERV 13 or higher (these are air filter grades), and aspire to meet or exceed ASHRAE (the professional society that provides HVAC guidance and standards) standards. Jimenez told me that many building-wide air-conditioning systems have a setting for how much air they take in from outside, and that it is usually minimized to be energy-efficient. During a pandemic, saving lives is more important than saving energy, so schools could, when the setting exists, crank it up to dilute the air (Jimenez told me that Shelly Miller, a fellow professor at the University of Colorado specializing in indoor air quality, persuaded the university to do just that.)

So, for school buildings where the HVAC system does have this outside-air setting ... no bidding or complication is required. There is an at-hand mitigation method ready to go.

 

[RUSF18]

The camp itself seems to be doing things as "right" as they can be.  It's the stupid anti-mask parents coming to get their kids that are making things sketchy.  

Except...

Well we're two days in, and none of the kids are wearing masks, including the teenage group leaders

 

[Doug B]

Another good bit from that same Atlantic article:

Some countries have already bucked the trend of ignoring short-range aerosols. O####ani told me that in Japan, researchers took short-range aerosol transmission seriously from the start, and focused on the few transmission events that spread the disease to large numbers of people at once. Cowling, of Hong Kong University, told me the same thing: He considers short-range aerosols and super-spreader events to be key to the spread of COVID-19. Japan was expected to fail by many, as it implemented an unconventional response, bucking WHO guidelines, eschewing widespread testing, and forcing few formal lockdowns. However, Japan masked up early, focused on super-spreader events (a strategy  it calls “cluster busting”), and, crucially, trained its public to focus on avoiding the three C’s—closed spaces, crowded places, and close conversations. In other words, exactly the places where airborne transmission and aerosols could pose a risk. The Japanese were advised not to talk on the subway, where windows were kept open. O####ani said they also developed guidelines that included the importance of ventilation in many different settings, such as bars, restaurants, and gyms. Six months later, despite having some of the earliest outbreaks, ultradense cities, and one of the oldest populations in the world, Japan has had about 1,000 COVID-19 deaths total—which is how many the United States often has in a single day. Hong Kong, a similarly dense and subway-dependent city, has had only 24 deaths.

 

[Biff84]

I really just don’t get why organizations don’t take this more seriously. Having a camp at all is questionable. Doing it without taking the appropriate precautions is insanity.

It’s part of the culture. The camp doesn’t want to be the ‘bad guys’ and enforce masks. They also don’t want to deal with the backlash from parents if they do enforce it. It’s the same reason why several retailers (including mine) tell employees not to confront people who aren’t following mask mandates.

One thing that seems certain is that if something sounds like a terrible idea, it will be. Re-opening early before hitting peaks. Huge crowds at bars. Having traveling sports outside a ‘bubble’. All ideas backfiring very predictably. Next up is opening schools during a pandemic, a 250k motorcycle rally, HS sports and many other hope and pray events that will only prolong this outbreak. We’ll be lucky if we even get a break before flu season hits.

 

[nirad3]

Except...

They were masked-up inside when I dropped them off yesterday, but my wife said they didn't have them on today (outside).   It's mainly the parents that are skeezin' me out.  For the most part, around here, people have been great about masks indoors.  Every time we go shopping, it's 100% mask usage.  That's why I'm pretty surprised that some parents are being idiots.

 

[AAABatteries]

Genuinely not trying to stir anything up, but I'm used to getting the daily numbers here and they've been notably absent lately. Am I correct in assuming things have been improving?

Improving compared with what?  Georgia is still on the upswing if you look at rolling averages, the citizenry still aren’t collectively taking things seriously, we don’t have a mask mandate and schools opened up this week.  If my vote counts then I’m gonna go with no, not improving in my locale. 

 

[nirad3]

Improving compared with what?  Georgia is still on the upswing if you look at rolling averages, the citizenry still aren’t collectively taking things seriously, we don’t have a mask mandate and schools opened up this week.  If my vote counts then I’m gonna go with no, not improving in my locale. 

Yeah, I'm feeling the same way about California.  Not even looking at numbers, just gut feel.  Mask usage is good at stores and such, but for some reason I think things are going to get a lot worse in the coming months.  

 

[parasaurolophus]

Back to ventilation issues, here's an interesting tidbit from that Atlantic article:

So, for school buildings where the HVAC system does have this outside-air setting ... no bidding or complication is required. There is an at-hand mitigation method ready to go.

They actually wouldnt even need to spend more money in warmer climates. Just have the building be 4-5 degrees warmer, but have it be fresh air.

Sacrificing a bit of comfort for safety. 

 

[GroveDiesel]

The camp itself seems to be doing things as "right" as they can be.  It's the stupid anti-mask parents coming to get their kids that are making things sketchy.  

Well, except for the teen counselors not wearing masks, none of the kids wearing masks even when inside, etc.

And my guess is that a lot of the outdoor activities are actually ending up with the kids in close proximity where they’re breathing heavily on each other. Sure, they’re playing volleyball where everyone is 6 feet apart...right until a ball is in the middle of the group and 4 kids all crash into each other going after the ball.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Back to ventilation issues, here's an interesting tidbit from that Atlantic article:

So, for school buildings where the HVAC system does have this outside-air setting ... no bidding or complication is required. There is an at-hand mitigation method ready to go.

It’s be interesting to see what percentage of schools have systems capable of this. I bet there’s a substantial number without central air systems capable of this.

For those that do, it sounds like a great idea.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Strep?

Unlikely.

 

[mr roboto]

It’s a term that goes back to the Cold War. First world: USA and allies. Second world: USSR and allies. Third world: Everywhere else.

The second world ceased to exist when the USSR fell apart.

Huh. Never knew. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Yeah, I'm feeling the same way about California.  Not even looking at numbers, just gut feel.  Mask usage is good at stores and such, but for some reason I think things are going to get a lot worse in the coming months.  

Maybe - I really have no clue but if schools insist on being open in person then it's inevitable that cases will rise in some areas.  In Georgia, it's just crazy right now - we aren't requiring masks and schools are back in.  I'm beginning to somewhat regret my decision.  It seems inevitable they will move to remote learning within a couple of weeks.

 

[trader jake]

It’s part of the culture. The camp doesn’t want to be the ‘bad guys’ and enforce masks. They also don’t want to deal with the backlash from parents if they do enforce it. It’s the same reason why several retailers (including mine) tell employees not to confront people who aren’t following mask mandates.

Would parents be better off taking that same strategy with their kids?  Of course not.

It's time for more in government, businesses, and individuals to start acting more like responsible parents.  Set guidelines, hold people accountable, and be willing to say no.

You can always give more leeway/open things up once the basics are taken care of and responsible decisionmaking is demonstrated.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Just got back from a road trip through CO and WY.  Night and day in terms of mask usage.  CO apparently has a mandatory-masking order, and literally everyone I saw in an indoor area was wearing a mask.  By way of contrast, I would guess about 10% of the WY people I encountered were masked up.  Really weird.  It makes me happy that most people in my community wear masks even though we're not technically required to do so.

 

[The Z Machine]

Just got back from a road trip through CO and WY.  Night and day in terms of mask usage.  CO apparently has a mandatory-masking order, and literally everyone I saw in an indoor area was wearing a mask.  By way of contrast, I would guess about 10% of the WY people I encountered were masked up.  Really weird.  It makes me happy that most people in my community wear masks even though we're not technically required to do so.

Sounds like WY is asking for an outbreak in the state.  Watch for test positivity to begin climbing.

 

[JaxBill]

Improving compared with what?  Georgia is still on the upswing if you look at rolling averages, the citizenry still aren’t collectively taking things seriously, we don’t have a mask mandate and schools opened up this week.  If my vote counts then I’m gonna go with no, not improving in my locale. 

Georgia 3 Day and 7 day averages

 

[the moops]

Genuinely not trying to stir anything up, but I'm used to getting the daily numbers here and they've been notably absent lately. Am I correct in assuming things have been improving?

I wouldn't say we are improving. US daily numbers via @COVID19Tracking

Newly reported deaths

Today: 1,176

Yesterday: 519

One week ago (7/28): 1,121

Newly reported cases

T: 52K

Y: 50K

7/28: 56K

Newly reported tests

T: 696K

Y: 732K

7/28: 735K

Positive test rate

T: 7.4%

Y: 6.8%

7/28: 7.6%

 

[parasaurolophus]

Just got back from a road trip through CO and WY.  Night and day in terms of mask usage.  CO apparently has a mandatory-masking order, and literally everyone I saw in an indoor area was wearing a mask.  By way of contrast, I would guess about 10% of the WY people I encountered were masked up.  Really weird.  It makes me happy that most people in my community wear masks even though we're not technically required to do so.

Friends of ours were just in CO. We saw facebook pics of them hiking with masks on, which looked weird. Said they had hiked the day before without them and got told by several people they should be wearing them. 

 

[beer 30]

Those are not insignificant costs for larger districts that may not have much money to begin with to outfit all their classrooms like that.

I’m not saying you’re wrong in the solution, but for large cash strapped districts, doing online learning may be the only option they think they can afford.

It's not just large districts, it's every district. All schools run tight on budget and none of them have thousands of dollars set aside for HVAC upgrades to handle this. You can do it but getting a company scheduled, trusting the solution (inline HEPA is probably the cheapest and simplest) and doing the work is a process. Especially when every other business in the world is looking at the same solutions and pay better than a government contract does.

A quick stop gap is throwing an air scrubber or two in every room. Again, it's money and availability. We buy them by the truck load and every manufacturer worth a rip are months out on production right now.

By the time you even get bids for the hvac work the virus will be controlled.  Not to mention most building materials now is in a massive shortage, so in the fantasy world where you could contract out 300,000 HVAC systems overnight there isn't enough ductwork and fittings to do maybe 10% of it..  

A bigger issue is the HEPA production. Filter material is in short supply as the entire world depleted any stock there was in the first month or two of the pandemic. Getting the system with the initial filter is probably doable but replacement filters are on backorder for everything. See above small scrubbers.

 

[Fiddles]

My kids went back to school yesterday.  So did my SIL/BIL.

Kid already tested positive at the local elementary school - turns out it is my SIL's neighbor and the kid is at her house all the time 

The class the neighbor's kid is in is now closed for 14 days.  If that is there plan then every school is going to be closed within 1-2 weeks and we will all be doing remote learning.  And we are one of the stupid counties where they didn't mandate masks.

my wifes coworkers kid is in that class.  small world

 

[TheWinz]

I know lots of you care about the great state of Connecticut, so here we go:

Deaths
4437 total, 1245 per million - We trail only NJ, NY, and MA in deaths per capita
40 straight days without a double digit death day - and an average of less than 4 per day  (these numbers are very good, when you consider we were in double digits for 63 straight days at one point, with an average of 62 per day at that time)
Of the deaths, 94% are over 60 years old and less than 2% are under the age of 50

Hospitalizations
Currently sitting at 60
Have been below 100 since 2 July

Positivity/Testing
Total 50110/834303 = 6.01%
In the last 30 days 3393/336610 = 1.01%
Currently 7th in the nation, having tested 23.4% of the population

Overall, CT has been doing a great job the last few months.  Masks are everywhere, and we never did open bars.  School openings are sure to drive the numbers up, and it will only be a matter of time before they close again.

 

[parasaurolophus]

It's not just large districts, it's every district. All schools run tight on budget and none of them have thousands of dollars set aside for HVAC upgrades to handle this. 

Literally every school district, office building, store, warehouse, machine shop, etc in the US can do at least something for basically zero cost. 

Then we can go from there. Like maybe take 50% of the new hand sanitizer spending. 

But these places wont do those things if there is zero guidance. And not only that, but the WHO is actually actively putting the brakes on it. 

 

[sho nuff]

My kids went back to school yesterday.  So did my SIL/BIL.

Kid already tested positive at the local elementary school - turns out it is my SIL's neighbor and the kid is at her house all the time 

The class the neighbor's kid is in is now closed for 14 days.  If that is there plan then every school is going to be closed within 1-2 weeks and we will all be doing remote learning.  And we are one of the stupid counties where they didn't mandate masks.

Posted it in threads about covid and school.

Ours went virtual (started yesterday) through labor day.  A few weeks before that, if the numbers are right, they will open up with the options to go in person or do virtual.  Once you decide that is what you are doing for the semester.  We are choosing virtual as we see there is no way there won't be little outbreaks in schools and have them shut down to virtual for a bit anyway.  Would rather my kids just stay consistent with one style for the semester then re-evaluate in December...rather than a back and forth constantly. 

Now...we are a bit luckier our kids are older (7th grade and a Junior in HS)...and my wife will be working from home for sure through then (no plans yet of her office re-opening for all...there are some there but not many).  She was already working from home 2 days a week before all of this.  And if my business partner ever decides he is ready to take on clients again...we work mostly from home anyway when we pick up a contract/client(s).  I realize not all have that ability with smaller kids being home.  Definitely a tough situation for families with small kids and working parents or single parents.

 

[culdeus]

Literally every school district, office building, store, warehouse, machine shop, etc in the US can do at least something for basically zero cost. 

Then we can go from there. Like maybe take 50% of the new hand sanitizer spending. 

But these places wont do those things if there is zero guidance. And not only that, but the WHO is actually actively putting the brakes on it. 

I mean the WHO has largely ghosted on this virus.  I can't remember the last time I read an article that even tried to get a quote from the WHO on virtually anything.  

 

[Biff84]

Sounds like WY is asking for an outbreak in the state.  Watch for test positivity to begin climbing.

I’ve mentioned it couple times but I think the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally is going to be the next super-spreader event. Huge crowds of people from all over, people desperate to celebrate their freedom and likely not a mask in site. People from hard hit areas bring the virus in and everyone spreads it back to where they came from and all the stops between. That’s how it’s going to spread to rural Midwest states like SD, ND, Iowa, Wyoming, Nebraska and others. And little mitigation steps in place, it will spread like crazy.

250k people expected over a week and a half starting Friday.

 

[beer 30]

I’ve mentioned it couple times but I think the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally is going to be the next super-spreader event. Huge crowds of people from all over, people desperate to celebrate their freedom and likely not a mask in site. People from hard hit areas bring the virus in and everyone spreads it back to where they came from and all the stops between. That’s how it’s going to spread to rural Midwest states like SD, ND, Iowa, Wyoming, Nebraska and others. And little mitigation steps in place, it will spread like crazy.

250k people expected over a week and a half starting Friday.

Yea that's not going to end well. Good luck telling the bikers to put on a mask.

Come to think of it, I'd like to see a live stream on that.

 

[Doug B]

I mean the WHO has largely ghosted on this virus.  I can't remember the last time I read an article that even tried to get a quote from the WHO on virtually anything. 

I don't think this is true, at least not from a non-U.S. perspective. The WHO publishes a situation report daily and their director speaks to the media frequently.

Not that the WHO has perfect information and has all kinds of magic bullets at the ready. There are some points where WHO guidance and CDC guidance differ -- notably, the WHO has been slow to come around on aerosol transmission. But the WHO is working earnestly on the global COVID-19 problem.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I don't think this is true, at least not from a non-U.S. perspective. The WHO publishes a situation report daily and their director speaks to the media frequently.

Not that the WHO has perfect information and has all kinds of magic bullets at the ready. There are some points where WHO guidance and CDC guidance differ -- notably, the WHO has been slow to come around on aerosol transmission. But the WHO is working earnestly on the global COVID-19 problem.

And masks. And even 6ft. 

 

[Biff84]

Yea that's not going to end well. Good luck telling the bikers to put on a mask.

Come to think of it, I'd like to see a live stream on that.

I don’t think there’s any plan to tell people to wear masks. Just roll with it and hope for the best.

 

[dgreen]

Sounds like WY is asking for an outbreak in the state.  Watch for test positivity to begin climbing.

Is this a change for Wyoming? Were they masking before and now aren't masking? I don't see why we'd predict a climb if this is how they've always operated.

Wyoming saw a steady increase from early June to late July. Recently has leveled off with maybe declining trend starting. There was also a flattening in early July before increasing again.

 

[shadyridr]

Is this a change for Wyoming? Were they masking before and now aren't masking? I don't see why we'd predict a climb if this is how they've always operated.

Wyoming saw a steady increase from early June to late July. Recently has leveled off with maybe declining trend starting. There was also a flattening in early July before increasing again.

Because as Dr Birx said, the pandemic is now widespread even in rural areas.

 

[Biff84]

Is this a change for Wyoming? Were they masking before and now aren't masking? I don't see why we'd predict a climb if this is how they've always operated.

Wyoming saw a steady increase from early June to late July. Recently has leveled off with maybe declining trend starting. There was also a flattening in early July before increasing again.

Places like Wyoming can avoid big outbreaks by taking simple measures like not holding large events, maintaining social distancing and wearing masks. They don’t have the crowding issues that more urban states do. But the places that can avoid it are choosing to completely ignore that anything is going on. So when the virus is introduced to a community through general spread or someone traveling, their lack of measures will easily cause community spread and efforts to put those measures in place will be met with great resistance.

Every area of this nation is going to need to get hit hard at least once before people take it serious. 

 

[UOFI_316]

It’s be interesting to see what percentage of schools have systems capable of this. I bet there’s a substantial number without central air systems capable of this.

For those that do, it sounds like a great idea.

This past summer all the schools in my kid's district got new HVAC systems and all new ducting, and during the school board meeting where they were talking about the potential plans one of the things that they mentioned was that the units that were installed are capable of using 80% outside air.   The grade schools in the next town over don't have central air at all, so it is definetly hit and miss which schools can use this approach.

 

[Poke_4_Life]

Places like Wyoming can avoid big outbreaks by taking simple measures like not holding large events, maintaining social distancing and wearing masks. They don’t have the crowding issues that more urban states do. But the places that can avoid it are choosing to completely ignore that anything is going on. So when the virus is introduced to a community through general spread or someone traveling, their lack of measures will easily cause community spread and efforts to put those measures in place will be met with great resistance.

Every area of this nation is going to need to get hit hard at least once before people take it serious. 

WY is very lightly populated, under 600k residents.  WY also has a very bad economy but one of the bigger parts of the economy is tourism around Jackson and the edges of Yellowstone.  They don't want to hamper their economy at all by restrictions.  And tourists will continue to bring in and spread the virus.  

I don't see outbreaks changing any of it.  Personally that's why I'm going to Colorado this year and not Jackson.  Oh well.

 

[shader]

I reached a breaking point with covid a week or two ago.  Just totally and completely over it.  Gonna ease my way back in.

Seems pretty clear that masks have worked.  That's tremendous news.  Cases are coming down again, and there are really only 3 reasons why this could be happening:

1. Masks - Seems like the vast majority of people are wearing them

2. Self quarantining - Don't think a lot of people are doing this, even with the fear that's out there.

3. Govt cooking the books - I've been data driven the whole time, so I don't really think this is a possibility.

It seems pretty clear that we aren't headed back to another lockdown.  With that being the case, current status quo seems to be a best case scenario for the R0, would you guys agree?

Restaurants and bars are still half full, big events still aren't happening, almost everyone is using masks, school hasn't really started yet.

Optimistic outlook:  We survived a second wave, now we are one step closer to a vaccine, and we see that masks are finally being seen as a wise move by all sides of the political spectrum, so we've gotten past the point where masks are a political issue.  Also, there has been a lot of buzz about half the population not being susceptible to covid.  If that's the case, many of the hard hit areas may struggle to have more relapses.  Disney World reopened, and didn't lead to a major spike!  

Pessimistic outlook:  Fall/winter is coming.  School is starting.  The R0 is likely to begin going up as school starts.  Plus, even though we seem to be on the other side of the curve, this country has a unique ability to immediately move on from a story/situation.  Once people think "covid is over", will the masks come off?

 

[3 hour lunch]

I reached a breaking point with covid a week or two ago.  Just totally and completely over it.  Gonna ease my way back in.

Seems pretty clear that masks have worked.  That's tremendous news.  Cases are coming down again, and there are really only 3 reasons why this could be happening:

1. Masks - Seems like the vast majority of people are wearing them

2. Self quarantining - Don't think a lot of people are doing this, even with the fear that's out there.

3. Govt cooking the books - I've been data driven the whole time, so I don't really think this is a possibility.

It seems pretty clear that we aren't headed back to another lockdown.  With that being the case, current status quo seems to be a best case scenario for the R0, would you guys agree?

Restaurants and bars are still half full, big events still aren't happening, almost everyone is using masks, school hasn't really started yet.

Optimistic outlook:  We survived a second wave, now we are one step closer to a vaccine, and we see that masks are finally being seen as a wise move by all sides of the political spectrum, so we've gotten past the point where masks are a political issue.  Also, there has been a lot of buzz about half the population not being susceptible to covid.  If that's the case, many of the hard hit areas may struggle to have more relapses.  Disney World reopened, and didn't lead to a major spike!  

Pessimistic outlook:  Fall/winter is coming.  School is starting.  The R0 is likely to begin going up as school starts.  Plus, even though we seem to be on the other side of the curve, this country has a unique ability to immediately move on from a story/situation.  Once people think "covid is over", will the masks come off?

I think it’s fair to be a little of both. My question is- even once we have a vaccine that is say 60% effective and you receive it, will we/should we still wear masks, assuming virus is still around? 

 

[nirad3]

I think it’s fair to be a little of both. My question is- even once we have a vaccine that is say 60% effective and you receive it, will we/should we still wear masks, assuming virus is still around? 

I think we may see more mask usage during cold/flu season, even if there is a somewhat-reliable vaccine.  

Edit - and on top of that, perhaps we see some employers more lax with work-from-home during cold/flu season, or if someone is just not feeling great.  I can certainly see myself working from home a lot more in the coming years, if not longer.

 

[shadyridr]

ALBANY — New York City recorded three straight days without any new coronavirus deaths on Tuesday, with only two virus-related deaths in the five boroughs tracked Wednesday.

There were four new coronavirus deaths in total statewide, according to Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Wednesday.

It’s a huge decrease from deaths recorded earlier this spring, when the state Health Department was recording daily death counts in the hundreds.

“Our progress is thanks to the hard work of New Yorkers — even after two and a half months of reopening, the numbers have continued to go down,” Cuomo said in a statement.

“But we learned from this crisis that nobody is safe until everybody is safe, and an outbreak anywhere is an outbreak everywhere. Surging infection rates across the country threaten that progress, so we must continue to wear our masks, socially distance and stay New York Tough.”

The total confirmed death count in the Empire State stands at 25,179 since the pandemic’s start.

Meanwhile, the statewide infection rate stands at .87 percent out of roughly 72,000 test results completed, with New York City seeing three straight days at 1 percent.

 

[shadyridr]

I reached a breaking point with covid a week or two ago.  Just totally and completely over it.  Gonna ease my way back in.

Seems pretty clear that masks have worked.  That's tremendous news.  Cases are coming down again, and there are really only 3 reasons why this could be happening:

1. Masks - Seems like the vast majority of people are wearing them

2. Self quarantining - Don't think a lot of people are doing this, even with the fear that's out there.

3. Govt cooking the books - I've been data driven the whole time, so I don't really think this is a possibility.

It seems pretty clear that we aren't headed back to another lockdown.  With that being the case, current status quo seems to be a best case scenario for the R0, would you guys agree?

Restaurants and bars are still half full, big events still aren't happening, almost everyone is using masks, school hasn't really started yet.

Optimistic outlook:  We survived a second wave, now we are one step closer to a vaccine, and we see that masks are finally being seen as a wise move by all sides of the political spectrum, so we've gotten past the point where masks are a political issue.  Also, there has been a lot of buzz about half the population not being susceptible to covid.  If that's the case, many of the hard hit areas may struggle to have more relapses.  Disney World reopened, and didn't lead to a major spike!  

Pessimistic outlook:  Fall/winter is coming.  School is starting.  The R0 is likely to begin going up as school starts.  Plus, even though we seem to be on the other side of the curve, this country has a unique ability to immediately move on from a story/situation.  Once people think "covid is over", will the masks come off?

Agreed 100%. I actually feel really good about what's happening right now.

We'll see what happens with schools. If we can somehow survive that with no rise in #s we should be able to defeat this thing!

 

[SoBeDad]

Modern day slavery:

>> I'm hearing from more and more crew members who have been forced to work on Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line ships over the past 4.5mos without pay. Still no response from the company to questions I sent before our story published yesterday. <<

 

[the moops]

Agreed 100%. I actually feel really good about what's happening right now.

We'll see what happens with schools. If we can somehow survive that with no rise in #s we should be able to defeat this thing!

More likely should read "we should be able to survive this thing"

 

[AAABatteries]

19 days later, test results.

Negative.  

 

[SoBeDad]

>> Miami-Dade: More downward movement in COVID patient volume at county hospitals, dropping 73 to 1,863. Of those, 503 are in ICUs, no change over yesterday. Discharges (233) outpaced new patients (143). Fire Rescue calls hovering around ~130 per day. <<

https://mobile.twitter.com/conarck/status/1291070859994685441?cxt=HHwWgoC73eqG5-ojAAAA

 

[belljr]

Ran into my first "non masker" and it made me more angry than someone who doesn't want to wear a mask.  Here it's been pretty close to 100% compliance whenever I do go out.  All stores have no mask no service etc.

So I'm in Wawa to get my daughter a snack after practice.

There's some 20ish year old girl that has a mask on but she pulled it down so she could sip on her drink and talk on the phone (speaker no less) while waiting for her order.

I almost wanted to rage

 

[need2know]

Ran into my first "non masker" and it made me more angry than someone who doesn't want to wear a mask.  Here it's been pretty close to 100% compliance whenever I do go out.  All stores have no mask no service etc.

So I'm in Wawa to get my daughter a snack after practice.

There's some 20ish year old girl that has a mask on but she pulled it down so she could sip on her drink and talk on the phone (speaker no less) while waiting for her order.

I almost wanted to rage

Get over it.  

 

[need2know]

Modern day slavery:

>> I'm hearing from more and more crew members who have been forced to work on Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line ships over the past 4.5mos without pay. Still no response from the company to questions I sent before our story published yesterday. 

Could they not quit?

 

[Doug B]

Could they not quit?

It’s a long swim home, and there aren’t any  embassies on board to protect their rights.

 

[need2know]

It’s a long swim home, and there aren’t any  embassies on board to protect their rights.

Oh cmon.   They wouldn't have to jump ship