The Z Machine
Footballguy
What would we do with the knowledge of who has immunity from COVID19? Put them on the front lines in a healthcare situation? Or let them go free while others shelter in place?we need a test for immunity may be right.
What would we do with the knowledge of who has immunity from COVID19? Put them on the front lines in a healthcare situation? Or let them go free while others shelter in place?we need a test for immunity may be right.
He might be the "they" mr roboto was talking about.I see doctors discussing it on Twitter right now asking one another if they should use it. Why, because some of them are willing to try anything at this point. It doesn't have to be some grand conspiracy. It simply could be a supply issue. And btw, it's not necessarily a vaccine, so we'd likely still have that need to develop a permanent solution. But it has the potential to end the current chaos if enough is produced. What is wrong with you? Everything should be explored right now. Most certainly anything that shows promise.
Find out what they have and give it to everyone else.What would we do with the knowledge of who has immunity from COVID19? Put them on the front lines in a healthcare situation? Or let them go free while others shelter in place?
Understood, and thanks for your original post on the state of affairs in China and your follow up. I think my lack of reconciling the two posts was more with the 500,000 deaths estimate, considering there are roughly 3,500 deaths in China but they are able to start returning to a sense of normalcy. That part by all accounts seems to fit, with Apple re-opening all of their stores as one piece of corroborating evidence of that.Dunno. I can confirm that my uncle isn’t a shill for the Chinese government so he isn’t trying to pull the wool over my eyes. He actually suggested that we consider moving to Guangdong vs Tampa! Lol.
My guess is that part of it is China needs to get businesses back online and coupled with their likely draconian methods of containment are better positioned to move forward than countries like Italy and maybe even the US. That’s just conjecture though on my part (and some vodka).
good flickSteve Carrell is the lead. Well, him and Christian Bale and Ryan Gossling.
Couldn't that be a function of low testing availability in the countries with high incidence of malaria? Also, since this disease seems to have a disproportionate effect on the elderly (70+), the demographics on those regions (which also correlate to economic status) tend to skew young, which could also show up as a correlation but not a causation.That map looks promising
"So far, no country - nor the World Health Organisation (WHO) - has officially published treatment measures against Covid-19, but in China and South Korea, guidelines already outline the use of chloroquine as an “effective treatment”, the study report said."French researcher posts successful Covid-19 drug trial
And guess what drug was used in this successful French trial which was concurred by a US study?
CHLOROQUINE
They got COVID19 and cleared the infection quickly, sometimes without symptoms. I don't think that's what you're advocating.Find out what they have and give it to everyone else.
Fingers crossed. Seems to completely block pathway of infection in what I've read this week.More studies emerging on the effectiveness of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine to wipe this virus out and do so rapidly...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj2SwRPodtscFio7bJ7GdNgbJAGbdfF67WuRJB3ZsidgpidB2eocFHAVjIL-7deJ7/pub
Time tested, malaria drugs that are cheap and easily manufactured. My goodness how long is it going to take to act on this possible end to this madness?
Yes find out what they got that let them do that and give it to everyone else.They got COVID19 and cleared the infection quickly, sometimes without symptoms. I don't think that's what you're advocating.
And thankfully as I just found, it's produced in the US by at least one domestic drug company in New Jersey...Fingers crossed. Seems to completely block pathway of infection in what I've read this week.
The data is limited, and methodologically flawed. Moreover, the drug isn't widely available in the US, and may not be available at all (haven't seen it used in years).My guess is there's not enough yet to meet the overnight unreal demand that would come if an announcement was made. My hope is that efforts to mass produce are underway and then we'll wake up one day to a hopeful announcement once enough has been procured.
"So far, no country - nor the World Health Organisation (WHO) - has officially published treatment measures against Covid-19, but in China and South Korea, guidelines already outline the use of chloroquine as an “effective treatment”, the study report said."French researcher posts successful Covid-19 drug trial
And guess what drug was used in this successful French trial which was concurred by a US study?
CHLOROQUINE
That's the natural assumption but as I've linked a few times, there is no shortage of either active studies or lack of success. I think there's a possibility we're a supply side solution away from a real breakthrough here. It apparently knocks the virus clear from the lungs. And perhaps most importantly there are doctors who are using it on CV19 already. Because of that we should know sooner rather than later.The data is limited, and methodologically flawed. Moreover, the drug isn't widely available in the US, and may not be available at all (haven't seen it used in years).
Studies are likely underway, but the process takes time, unfortunately.
I’m a stupid person but what isn’t this being handed out like candy to every patient in the country?And thankfully as I just found, it's produced in the US by at least one domestic drug company in New Jersey...
https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/new_info/2016/chloroquine_shortage.htm
https://www.drugs.com/manufacturer/rising-pharmaceuticals-inc-218.html
No offense snore, but I'm not buying China's "official" death numbers. No more than I would Iran's.Dunno. I can confirm that my uncle isn’t a shill for the Chinese government so he isn’t trying to pull the wool over my eyes. He actually suggested that we consider moving to Guangdong vs Tampa! Lol.These two posts seem a bit incongruous, granted I’m basically an idiot so help me understand. How is China basically getting back to normal with 3,300 deaths reported, yet the worse case scenario is far higher than 500,000 deaths?
My guess is that part of it is China needs to get businesses back online and coupled with their likely draconian methods of containment are better positioned to move forward than countries like Italy and maybe even the US. That’s just conjecture though on my part (and some vodka).
Edited 3 minutes ago by snore
Vodka spelling check
Maybe you can kick this information back to your sources?Fingers crossed. Seems to completely block pathway of infection in what I've read this week.
Flatten the curve, stay the course.This is a fluid situation, so I reserve the right to amend this pending some sort of scene where Madison Square Garden becomes a hospital I'm giving the virus 30 days, 30 days to choke off our lives and businesses and if that doesn't do the trick, then let it rip because we're just kicking the can down the road and its time to rip the bandaid because this will run through us anyway.
This idea you're telling people over 70 to stay in the house for 4 months? Honest question, how many months do they have in their lives anyway, thats a lot to give up, give up what might be your last summer? College graduations getting canceled 2 months out? Enough.
Casue the drug companies are working on a vaccine. They wouldnt like a drug that is 50 years old handed out and it actually cures the patient.I’m a stupid person but what isn’t this being handed out like candy to every patient in the country?
Our boy is getting snipped tomorrow. Poor guy. But they said same procedure. Stay in the car, they come out with a leash and take him in. Makes sense.I brought my dog Shadow to the groomer today. I didn't want to, I felt, I owed it to him. He hasn't had a bath until two weeks before Christmas. The salon to their credit had a system in place. They met you at the car, put a new lease (ETA or a leash) on, and returned him the same way. I paid with cc over the phone too.
He's a good puppy! Yes he is! Yes he is! So clean...awe, I miss you boy. We can go home now.
This is where people go in different directions. I agree with much of what you are saying. I feel bad for the Seniors but watching 20% Unemployment, Bailouts for multiple verticals and then I hear people say "How can you think about money at a time like this?"This is a fluid situation, so I reserve the right to amend this pending some sort of scene where Madison Square Garden becomes a hospital I'm giving the virus 30 days, 30 days to choke off our lives and businesses and if that doesn't do the trick, then let it rip because we're just kicking the can down the road and its time to rip the bandaid because this will run through us anyway.
This idea you're telling people over 70 to stay in the house for 4 months? Honest question, how many months do they have in their lives anyway, thats a lot to give up, give up what might be your last summer? College graduations getting canceled 2 months out? Enough.
I’d guess the FDA and others would need to see a year? of testing before giving it the OKI’m a stupid person but what isn’t this being handed out like candy to every patient in the country?
Have but they aren't decision makers.. they're pawns not kings in this game.Maybe you can kick this information back to your sources?
Well our big wet president or whomever is really in charge needs to tell them to get ####ed because this is wrecking the entire country. The drug companies can just raise the rates on all the anxiety meds everybody is going to need after this.Casue the drug companies are working on a vaccine. They wouldnt like a drug that is 50 years old handed out and it actually cures the patient.
I would hope less since it's already proven safe. My guess is off label use requires a much shorter runway to viability, but @Terminalxylem and others can confirm.I’d guess the FDA and others would need to see a year? of testing before giving it the OK
Absolutely cannot stress this enough - #### that.I’d guess the FDA and others would need to see a year? of testing before giving it the OK
on a 50 + year old drug. Yep that is standard operating procedure in the US.I’d guess the FDA and others would need to see a year? of testing before giving it the OK
My understanding is that if a drug is approved for one purpose (which chloroquine is), doctors are free to prescribe it for other purposes without going through FDA again.I’d guess the FDA and others would need to see a year? of testing before giving it the OK
Glad to hear you have though. Sometimes the best info can go bottom to top.Have but they aren't decision makers.. they're pawns not kings in this game.
Yeah this drug has been around for 50 years and FDA approved long ago. What's left to tackle is supply and when to pour everything into this. There are studies underway all over the world right now with active CV19 patients. If this drug keeps churning out 100% success rates, it will be unleashed soon.I would hope less since it's already proven safe. My guess is off label use requires a much shorter runway to viability, but @Terminalxylem and others can confirm.
Ya me neither. Just saying this is what the populace is maybe being told (small sample size of just my uncle).No offense snore, but I'm not buying China's "official" death numbers. No more than I would Iran's.
We have two actuarial things to consider here.. and here's what I'd like to know... absent this virus, what is the typical death rate for people 70 plus? And by god I'm not rooting against them whatsoever, but you hear a number like 500K and your'e shocked. How many would or should that number be?This is where people go in different directions. I agree with much of what you are saying. I feel bad for the Seniors but watching 20% Unemployment, Bailouts for multiple verticals and then I hear people say "How can you think about money at a time like this?"
It's difficult and people are going to rush to be offended by some of this. I thought this was mostly for folks reporting facts or seeking information but it's starting to spiral into everyone wanting to get an opinion on how we should proceed.
I hate that the economy has been shut off. I also think it's going to get very real when people you know, I know, everyone in here will have a family member that will go a round or two with this, probably many in here have Seniors in their family that are higher risk, their feelings might be much different.
Cheers ST
The people really in charge haven't brought the market down to the level they want yet.Well our big wet president or whomever is really in charge needs to tell them to get ####ed because this is wrecking the entire country. The drug companies can just raise the rates on all the anxiety meds everybody is going to need after this.
You lose a lot of time investing in worship and other religious activities. Those aren't all bad, but I'd rather spend it elsewhere. Like this board.No fun havin' son of a gun...
If it helps, Pascal's wager states that you should believe in God on the off chance there is a God and heaven/hell dichotomy, because you lose nothing if you believe in God and there is none.
I get what your are saying, and I don't disagree (double negative sounds better than agreeing), but the key is when to start the 30-45 day counter. You don't want to start it too late obviously. But you don't want to start it too soon either or the curve doesn't flatten. The issue is that you have this huge (read: Yuge) spread out country where some cities are already bad (Seattle, NYC) but other areas have been barely touched. It's a difficult thing to time on a Federal scale. It may make sense to just try to do it locally in rolling periods. But boy, the coordination on that is tough. And you can't really just do it by state (I live in NC about a half mile from the border of SC). Maybe do waves starting with the big cities on the coast that are more likely to be infected sooner and then move inland until you finally get to the Midwest? But probably need to still get some "Midwest" cities that have big international airports, like Dallas and Chicago.This is a fluid situation, so I reserve the right to amend this pending some sort of scene where Madison Square Garden becomes a hospital I'm giving the virus 30 days, 30 days to choke off our lives and businesses and if that doesn't do the trick, then let it rip because we're just kicking the can down the road and its time to rip the bandaid because this will run through us anyway.
This idea you're telling people over 70 to stay in the house for 4 months? Honest question, how many months do they have in their lives anyway, thats a lot to give up, give up what might be your last summer? College graduations getting canceled 2 months out? Enough.
Was working through this with my sister via text today (absent the medical stuff). If there was a way to know who'd been infected AND recovered we could get them back into life ASAP and mitigate the economic damage without having the worst scenarios realized.The more I think of it, you guys suggesting we need a test for immunity may be right. It definitely goes against our standard approach to infectious disease diagnosis, where we look for evidence of active infection. We need those tests first to facilitate appropriate infection control measures and contact tracing. But once those are widely available (hopefully in a couple weeks), it would be nice to know who has and hasn't been exposed, regardless of symptoms.
[snip]
The other issue is we don't know the natural history of antibody production in response to C-19 infection. But once that is elaborated, a two-test assay would be a great way to expedite getting society off lockdown.
I know a couple people there. Both say things are slowly going back to normal.Ya me neither. Just saying this is what the populace is maybe being told (small sample size of just my uncle).
Hydroxychloroquine is used for lupus - that's readily available. I'm not sure the same is true for chloroquine. I've seen people assume both are effective, but your link only talks about chloroquine.The variable that keeps coming to mind is current available quantity. It's used to treat malaria and lupus. So what's currently produced is what's needed to meet the demand of those two conditions. Certainly nowhere near what would be need to stop CV19 tomorrow. Perhaps enough to stop it soon.
Could very well be true. And I think that isn't necessarily unwise for a brief period of time. Very soon though, it would be time to flip that on it's head if this drug(s) keeps working.We are too busy figuring out how to mass produce masks and ventilators to consider mass producing a drug that apparently works.
Yes, doctors can do whatever they want. But the drug manufacturer can't market it for the other uses.My understanding is that if a drug is approved for one purpose (which chloroquine is), doctors are free to prescribe it for other purposes without going through FDA again.
That's a great stat. Gives some idea of the level of pullback. 2/3rds or so looks like.@NYCTSunway
March 17, 2019: 5,568,464
March 17, 2020: 1,785,252
3.7 million of you chose not to ride with us yesterday because you want to #flattenthecurve.