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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (14 Viewers)

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Soulfly3 said:
grocery in my town has a strict 30 person max right now, w security at the door asking COVID related questions and wiping down all carts w disinfectant. 

such a PITA, but makes total sense.
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As an interesting contrast, I'm one of the #######s who left the city to ride it out at a rural second home (mostly because it's a more pleasant place to be in quarantine). There is a Walmart about 10 miles from here that I assume is where most people are going, but the local grocery store has been more or less empty both times I've been. With people wearing gloves. It's more expensive, but I am happy to pay a little more to shop in a place getting significantly less traffic with shelves fully-stocked (except for paper products, of course).

 
Soulfly3 said:
and yet many seniors still find a way to basically make out with you in an empty store.

im telling you, for being the most at risk, a lot of seniors acting like they dont give a damn... they cant seem to break their habits and get REAL close way too often
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i agree, but won’t generalize just seniors.  i ran to the grocery for my covid stash, i wear a mask now, too many times people were happy to linger near me in aisles, touch all produce (why we don’t have plastic gloves for produce in this country is beyond my comprehension) and generally be too close.

speaking of produce, in italy, their groceries all have plastic gloves for handling produce, they have signs saying don’t touch without gloves and they enforce this like crazy.  this was before the virus.  imagine if they were as filthy in the grocery as we are.......

 
ConstruxBoy said:
So you are saying that the articles that say that masks don't help are a lie by the CDC to save their supply?
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Absolutely.

And not just the CDC. Every doctor that gave interviews and such guidance.

It literally makes no sense. There is no study that backs up their claims. It defies all logic. 

They dont work, but we need them. They dont work, stay 6 feet away from everybody. They dont work, but 

You do not need to wear a facemask unless you are caring for someone who is sick (and they are not able to wear a facemask). 
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Don't wear one, well unless you are sick. Then wear one. Did we mention we think there are people that are sick and don't know it? 

If you have cystic fibrosis...

Wearing a mask can help you reduce your risk of breathing in or spreading germs to others. The mask can block out germ-carrying droplets or remains of droplets that can be suspended in the air
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But they don't work...

 
BassNBrew said:
What is everything?
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Beaches parks ball fields playground movies malls public gatherings restaurant seating

All softball complex has the front gate locked, can't even get in the parking lot. I didn't the gate actually worked it's never been closed 🙂

I'm sure some stores are open that our borderline but our wawa is only half open, can still get food pickup/take out

 
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I'm hearing about the shortage of PPE for healtcare workers from firsthand accounts in Miami. A  hospital is asking employees to not wear masks while in most areas such as the cafeteria.  Cashiers have no PPE. Office staff in the few physician offices still seeing out patients are being told not to wear masks.  A dialysis company is not providing proper PPE to their nurses.

 
Biff84 said:
The only problem is that demand hasn’t stopped. Do you think companies decided not to produce masks because of what the recommendations were at the time? What about the health care professionals who still can’t get them? We’re a major supermarket/pharmacy chain and we were able to get 10 boxes of masks for an entire  section of a major metro area. You really think companies are looking at the current mask situation in the country and deciding not to make masks until they change the recommendations?
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You said yourself use is estimated to be 3.5 billion for this year. We know that 3m will take care of well over a billion of that. I dont think it is unreasonable to guess there were a billion masks already available nationwide in all of the hospitals and medical supply warehouses combined. We know that there have been massive donations and individual companies like facebook etc donating massive stores. There are other companies that also produce masks. So if current guidance stayed the same what is left for new producers? Is that a big enough demand to create a whole new line and overspend to try and get in the game quickly?

If I was a plant manager and knew I could make these things, but those scraps were what was left to fight over I wold never advocate making wholesale changes like that. 

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Bass, I got it the first time, but I'm allowed to have the OPINION that Gov DeSantis acted quickly and has done about as good a job as one could expect in this pandemic. 

That's not political, are we clear on this?

Cheers
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When you post an opinion about a political figure, someone else will inevitably have a differing opinion.  That descends into an i-slapfight, and no one wants that - not in this thread.  We have a whole sub-forum for i-slapfights.

And yes, saying a politician has done a good job, its political.  Full stop.

 
Jagov said:
Today here in The Netherlands we moved past the 10K total case level. Also 132 new deaths, the highest daily total to date. After Italy and Spain, The Netherlands has the highest death rate per 1M citizens. But the growth rate of new cases has been lower the past few days, 96% of the Dutch citizens are seriously adhering to social distancing (recent poll) and of the 1600 Corona ICU beds in the country only 900 are in use at the moment. We are still on the "good" side of the line.

And oh yeah ... Government and health care folks are quite upset about the shipment of faulty masks (600K) from China.
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I noticed a jump in the Netherlands yesterday. Hopefully things stay on the good side there. Thanks for posting and keep us informed.

 
Not sure if it's been posted yet about the Covidien/Newport story at NYT. But basically, in response to H1N1, the US had a contract with Newport to produce a whole bunch of cheap, portable, easy to train ventilators for a national stockpile. Right as the prototypes came out, Newport was bought out by Covidien, who among other things, made more expensive ventilators. They finagled their way out of the contract (many speculating it was the only reason they bought the company was to prevent this flood of cheap vents).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html?referringSource=articleShare

 
For the most part, this thread has been great until someone showed up recently. I think that's obvious.

Stop engaging. It's simple. When you hit that quote button, ask yourself if it's REALLY worth it. Like social distancing, if we all do it, it'll work.

Have a good Sunday all.

 
Saw a news story today on the number of nurses quitting jobs because of the lack of PPE. Sad when our friggin' doctors and nurses can't get masks to wear while treating the sick, yet Bubba Prepper has a fresh mask every time he steps out on the porch to get the mail  out of his mailbox.

 
parasaurolophus said:
You said yourself use is estimated to be 3.5 billion for this year. We know that 3m will take care of well over a billion of that. I dont think it is unreasonable to guess there were a billion masks already available nationwide in all of the hospitals and medical supply warehouses combined. We know that there have been massive donations and individual companies like facebook etc donating massive stores. There are other companies that also produce masks. So if current guidance stayed the same what is left for new producers? Is that a big enough demand to create a whole new line and overspend to try and get in the game quickly?

If I was a plant manager and knew I could make these things, but those scraps were what was left to fight over I wold never advocate making wholesale changes like that. 
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I think the need is a hell of a lot bigger than that.  Assume 330M Americans needing 1 mask per day....the need is closer to 120B per year.

 
Possum said:
... we looked at purchasing some masks for our drivers and elected not to do that because every official guideline we could find said that masks weren't effective at all for healthy folks against this. Now four weeks later the CDC is coming out with an almost complete reversal on that advice. 
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The CDC hasn’t reversed anything yet. So far, it’s been an unsupported tweet that has said that.

I do expect the guidance to change — but it hasn’t happened yet.

 
moleculo said:
I think the need is a hell of a lot bigger than that.  Assume 330M Americans needing 1 mask per day....the need is closer to 120B per year.
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Thats the point I am making. New guidance though would be required to get that demand. 

Change guidance and then follow through on current statement posted on website of cdc that stock can be reserved for medical community. 

 
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[icon] said:
On slickdeals they reference reviews that they are a reputable company 
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Less concerned about their reputation as a company and moreso about the product.  It has 4 ingredients to Purell's 8+ (depending on variety).  That could be a good thing, IDK?

 
Biff84 said:
parasaurolophus said:
It isnt ramping up that will solve the crisis. "Ramping in" might be a better description. More companies will start to make them if the demand is pretty much every person in the country. The CDC has already put on their website that in times of emergency they can be reserved for members of the medical community. 

Instead they decided to cap demand by lying. 

February 6th was the first article I read telling people masks dont help and people are too stupid to put them on right. Within the next few days every publication was printing that.

Almost 7 weeks wasted. 
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The only problem is that demand hasn’t stopped. Do you think companies decided not to produce masks because of what the recommendations were at the time?
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Partly, yes. But it's a symbiotic chicken-or-egg relationship -- supplies are low, in part, because the CDC downplayed the need; but the CDC downplayed need, in part, because supplies were low. And nobody stopped to think in December, "Wait a minute, we just might need a few billion of these things because the entire earth will be covered in a plague for the next 18 months."

At any rate, it seems like we're mostly talking about two separate issues here. My point is that, in my opinion, if the supply chain becomes stabilized and people realize that social distancing will be an ongoing part of our lives for the next year, then the CDC will change its official recommendation.

 
parasaurolophus said:
Absolutely.

And not just the CDC. Every doctor that gave interviews and such guidance.

It literally makes no sense. There is no study that backs up their claims. It defies all logic. 

They dont work, but we need them. They dont work, stay 6 feet away from everybody. They dont work, but 

Don't wear one, well unless you are sick. Then wear one. Did we mention we think there are people that are sick and don't know it? 

If you have cystic fibrosis...

But they don't work...
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Fair enough. I don't want to go back and forth on it.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Hope someone can answer this for me, as I am genuinely curious (and ya, I guess I already know different answers are coming in from different states)

In Ontario (and rest of country, I believe) only Essential Services are open. (grocery, gas, constructions, take-out foods etc)

Schools in some provinces are closed indefinitely... in some it's just a month or so, w online learning the only option. day cares are also closed, causing problems for working parents

In all honesty, it means a lot is open, but when you drive, EVERYTHING is seemingly closed. 

Borders closed, etc... It's a wild sight. 

Is this type of action being taken down there yet in any states? Sorry there is just TOO much info to go thru
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It is varying widely by State. Michigan's shut down seems exactly like what you have in Canada. 

 
I'm not sure how many poorer countries are solving the mask shortage, but I suspect they're re-using them. In a small town in the Peruvian Andes, elderly pensioners are waiting in line outside the bank, in chairs spaced over a meter apart, all with face masks: https://larepublica.pe/sociedad/2020/03/26/apurimac-banco-puso-sillas-separadas-para-que-ancianos-esperen-su-turno-y-cobren-pension-cuarentena-coronavirus-lrsd/

I've also seen videos on FB from friends showing shaming of people in Peru who violate the 8pm to 5am curfew - one showed dozens of people shouting their support of the police from their balconies, when a man was arrested for walking his dog after 8pm. And soccer star Solano was detained for violating the curfew:  https://www.espn.com/soccer/peru/story/4079364/ex-premier-league-star-solano-apologises-for-breaking-coronavirus-curfew-in-peru

People in other countries seem to be taking this very seriously.

 
SoBeDad said:
People in other countries seem to be taking this very seriously.
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my parents live in a pretty isolated part of the northwest of france, and police have been trolling beaches making sure ppl are staying inside.

my cousin in paris has been fined TWICE for bringing her kids downstairs to the playground in her building. parisian apartments for the non-elite are small. i cant imagiune having 2 children under 4 stuck inside all day

my dad txtd me today, that tomorrow is "his day" to grocery shop. they get a govt issues "ticket" that they have to present when at the grocery store to be allowed in. and they wait in the car until theyre called to go in.

europe is in a state that we cant even imagine right now. even when he tells me, i cant fathom it. and unless there's a major shift here in attitude, it'll be that and/or worse.

again, this is just in a town of a few hundred, MAYBE a few thousand, on the coast. they are not allowed to leave their home.

 
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Ontario Prohibits Gatherings of More Than Five People with Strict Exceptions

Stronger action required to stop the spread of COVID-19

March 28, 2020 9:15 P.M.

Office of the Premier

TORONTO — Today, the Ontario government is taking immediate and decisive action to further stop the spread of COVID-19 and protect the health and well-being of all Ontarians.

Based on the best advice of Ontario's Chief Medical Officer of Health, the Ontario government is issuing a new emergency order under the Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act to prohibit organized public events and social gatherings of more than five people, effective immediately.
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this just happened in my province. i dont think it changes much, but it's one step closer to the european "total shutdown"

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
This. All the warnings are much appreciated. It must be exhausting being a mod here and giving all the warnings. Warning after warning after warning after warning after warning. It's almost impossible to thank you each and every time.

From all of us, from the bottom of our hearts, with absolutely no sarcasm whatsoever, thank you.
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Speaking of warnings that so many people ignored.... remember all the COVID-19 warnings back in January and February?

 
Soulfly3 said:
Hope someone can answer this for me, as I am genuinely curious (and ya, I guess I already know different answers are coming in from different states)

In Ontario (and rest of country, I believe) only Essential Services are open. (grocery, gas, constructions, take-out foods etc)

Schools in some provinces are closed indefinitely... in some it's just a month or so, w online learning the only option. day cares are also closed, causing problems for working parents

In all honesty, it means a lot is open, but when you drive, EVERYTHING is seemingly closed. 

Borders closed, etc... It's a wild sight. 

Is this type of action being taken down there yet in any states? Sorry there is just TOO much info to go thru
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Yes in MN. For a few weeks now. 

 
 Italy reports 5,217 new cases of coronavirus and 756 new deaths, raising total to 97,689 cases and 10,779 dead

Italy is clearly turning the corner for now.

 
today marks the 12th day since we began shutting things down.  If we have been effective, we should start seeing the number of new cases tail off.  I hope for a reduction in new cases, but maintaining number of new cases (plus or minus) would be a big improvement.   12 days was how long it took for effects to be seen in both China and Italy - time from initial lockdown to new cases peaking.  Hopefully we follow a similar trend.

As far as the death rate, we seem to have been increasing at 32%/day for the past week (doubling every 2.2 days).  As death rate is a lagging indicator, I don't expect that to crest for at least a week after the # of new cases peaks.  At the present rate, we will have ~20k total deaths by then.

 
Another nice explanation of how the FDA effectively blocked covid testing in the US for about six weeks, along with a helpful timeline.

Unfortunately, the United States has not made testing widely available and now various regions are being forced to impose severe economic and social lockdowns. As of March 17, the U.S. had tested only about 125 people per million. South Korea had tested more than 5,000 people per million. Between early February and mid-March, the U.S. lost six crucial weeks because regulators stuck to rigid regulations instead of adapting as new information came in. While these rules might have made sense in normal times, they proved disastrous in a pandemic. 

Under ordinary circumstances, the cost of using an imperfect diagnostic test often outweighs the benefit. But when public health officials need to contain a novel and highly contagious disease, speed matters more than perfection. The lessons from this debacle are clear: The FDA needs to have plans in place prior to a pandemic for public labs and private companies to produce their own test kits. A distributed strategy would be much more resilient to errors, in contrast to the single point of failure created by the FDA in this crisis.
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