*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (13 Viewers)

[mcintyre1]

Sorry to hear that. Being in Minnesota though, you should be in decent shape as far as unemployment goes. From what I hear, it's slick as ####, unlike a lot of other states. 

Yeah, checking it out now

 

[Ksquared]

But the process of ensuring the formula is produce consistently throughout the "batch" is the problem.  To get large amounts quickly, the batches tend to get less homogeneous.  This is a pretty specialized area in startup of mass production, whether is metals, liquids, or compounds.

 

[Redwes25]

Article on widespread infections at meat packaging plants - https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/04/22/meat-packing-plants-covid-may-force-choice-worker-health-food/2995232001/

 

[the moops]

Understand that 20 Million tests in a week are actually giving about 10 tests every second, 7 days a week, 8 hours a day.  

I think that is only 2 million tests per week.

 

[shader]

Oh yea man, get that. Wasn't directed at you, more a general statement about all the different threads of information being promoted out there right now.

I read that twitter feed about the study and while I understand the basis of it I'm by no means intelligent enough to speak about it. Seems like they cut corners and made assumptions that kind of flies in the face of statistics. But that's what a proper peer review is for. What frustrates me is this makes it into the general populace, becomes cannon and now there are folks making pretty far reaching decisions based on a study that, at a minimum, appears to have some flaws with the logic used to ascertain the numbers they are presenting.

I agree 100%.  I don't know what the solution is.  I wish these studies were not made public until they were subjected to a peer review process.  What is the point of that Santa Clara study being released early?  I see no good reason for it.  

 

[Doug B]

Of course they would never say stop washing your hands. That not even a point. 

Do you seriously doubt that there are many viruses that dont get spread via surfaces? 

And just because something "can" spread via surfaces doesnt mean it does or that it does in any kind of significant pattern. The cdc says zika can spread (via certain kinds of) sex. Between those ... there is one documented case. So in the discussion of being unlikely bringing that up is irrelevant. 

So sure if somebody sneezed right on a door handle and then somebody else touched it and immediately wiped their face and inhaled while they did it. 

Could you link anything that says that CV isn’t spread by surfaces/touch? I haven’t heard of that and you gave 3 examples and the first one I looked up (SARS) said that it can be spread that way.

This recent idea that COVID doesn't really spread by touching objects has its root in this CDC advisement that I believe was first posted on April 2nd. The"fomites don't cause COVID" idea gets brought up in this thread from time to time (including yesterday by parasaurolophus), but the specifics are largely glossed over when we've discussed it. See excerpt below:

Cleaning and Disinfection for Households
Interim Recommendations for U.S. Households with Suspected or Confirmed Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Background
There is much to learn about the novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Based on what is currently known about COVID-19, spread from person-to-person of this virus happens most frequently among close contacts (within about 6 feet). This type of transmission occurs via respiratory droplets. On the other hand, transmission of novel coronavirus to persons from surfaces contaminated with the virus has not been documented. Recent studies indicate that people who are infected but do not have symptoms likely also play a role in the spread of COVID-19. Transmission of coronavirus occurs much more commonly through respiratory droplets than through fomites. Current evidence suggests that SARS-CoV-2 may remain viable for hours to days on surfaces made from a variety of materials. Cleaning of visibly dirty surfaces followed by disinfection is a best practice measure for prevention of COVID-19 and other viral respiratory illnesses in households and community settings.

IMHO, the advice is confusing and equivocal. The part in red can make people think fomite transmission does not happen, as opposed to fomite transmission not typically being tracked down/recorded. If the CDC means the former, they need to be clearer. And IF the CDC truly means "fomite transmission essentially doesn't happen", the part in green makes little sense -- who cares long the virus lasts on surfaces if the virus doesn't really spread that way?

The next paragraph gets into room ventilation -- keep in mind that this is advice for households caring for a COVID-19 patient:

It is unknown how long the air inside a room occupied by someone with confirmed COVID-19 remains potentially infectious. Facilities will need to consider factors such as the size of the room and the ventilation system design (including flowrate [air changes per hour] and location of supply and exhaust vents) when deciding how long to close off rooms or areas used by ill persons before beginning disinfection.  Taking measures to improve ventilation in an area or room where someone was ill or suspected to be ill with COVID-19 will help shorten the time it takes respiratory droplets to be removed from the air.

So ... when people read this, they get the idea that COVID-19 is spread readily through HVAC systems (was discussing this with @JAA recently in this thread). Again, if the CDC wants to warn of HVAC-based transmission, say so. Be clearer. And if the virus is truly thought to truly spread through exhaled/spoken aerosol vapor (as opposed to large coughed/sneezed droplets), say exactly that, and clearly.

...

I've been seriously doubting the ideas that a) fomites don't matter and that b) mere breath or speaking (from normal distances) spreads coronavirus. However, if better and more compelling evidence has come out in recent weeks, can the CDC please show its work?

 

[Ksquared]

I think that is only 2 million tests per week.

Opps, yep it is actually 100 tests every second.  Damn decimal point.

 

[Sand]

With black plexiglass, maybe. No way I want to be eye ball to eye ball with some stranger...

I can just imagine the new need for puke bags for the middle seaters.  Then whining from people who book the middle seat (or buy basic fares and get put there) and then claim they are motion sick and can't sit there.

Basically I can imagine a lot of complaining over this.

 

[stbugs]

This recent idea that COVID doesn't really spread by touching objects has its root in this CDC advisement that I believe was first posted on April 2nd. It gets brought up in this thread from time to time (including yesterday by parasaurolophus), but the specifics are largely glossed over when we've discussed it. See excerpt below:

IMHO, the advice is confusing and equivocal. The part in red can make people think fomite transmission does not happen, as opposed to fomite transmission not typically being tracked down/recorded. If the CDC means the former, they need to be clearer. And IF the CDC truly means "fomite transmission essentially doesn't happen", the part in green makes little sense -- who cares long the virus lasts on surfaces if the virus doesn't really spread that way?

The next paragraph gets into room ventilation -- keep in mind that this is advice for households caring for a COVID-19 patient:

So ... when people read this, they get the idea that COVID-19 is spread readily through HVAC systems (was discussing this with @JAA recently in this thread). Again, if the CDC wants to warn of HVAC-based transmission, say so. Be clearer. And if the virus is truly thought to truly spread through exhaled/spoken aerosol vapor (as opposed to large coughed/sneezed droplets), say exactly that, and clearly.

...

I've been seriously doubting the ideas that a) fomites don't matter and that b) mere breath or speaking (from normal distances) spreads coronavirus. However, better and more compelling evidence has come out in recent weeks, can the CDC please show its work?

Thanks. That’s what I mean. On the one hand we’ve been told that this virus stays “alive” way longer ok surfaces than others but it’s only transmitted via air? Kind of contradictory and if true don’t be wishy washy.

 

[Sand]

Also: Bill DeBlasio creates tip line for people to rat on their neighbors and hilarity ensues

You have to say there are some things that New Yorkers are just better at than everyone else.  Proof positive, here.

 

[top dog]

My friend who just lost his wife to covid posted an update on facebook.  It is very long so I won't post it.  He wanted to thank all the people that have shown his family support and love through the ordeal.  Some of it was heart-wrenching...  They were in the same hospital, but unable to see each other.  Initially I thought for some reason they were in different hospitals. He was there for 5 days. Sitting in his room, heart broken, knowing his wife was on a vent in ICU his daughter called him and told him to look out the window.  In the parking lot were a group of family and friends.  All socially distanced holding signs of support and waving to him.  It was something he really needed to lift his spirits.

When he was being discharged he asked to see her.  They of course couldn't let him do that because he had tested positive and would have to pass through areas of the hospital that were sterile between where he was and ICU.  It tore him up inside to not be able to hold her hand and comfort her.  They did video chats through an app the hospital uses, but she was heavily sedated and non-responsive.  His nurse came in the room in full PPE to comfort him when the doctor gave him the news that she was going on the ventilator.  

He said he is now 5 days removed from the hospital, quarantined at home.  Alone.  Grieving his wife's passing.  He wants to be with his kids to comfort them.  But can't.  Then family, friends, neighbors all started showing up at his house.  They dropped off flowers outside.  Talked to him through the window... All day long... All practicing social distancing but showing him love and support.  He said he must have had 50 people show up throughout the day.  It really helped lift his spirits.

At the end he said, "I guess what I'm trying to tell you is to take this virus seriously.  It can happen to anyone.  Thank you to the residents of __________ we have some outstanding folks here and I have an amazing group of family and friends.  Thank you all."

 

[The Commish]

But the process of ensuring the formula is produce consistently throughout the "batch" is the problem.  To get large amounts quickly, the batches tend to get less homogeneous.  This is a pretty specialized area in startup of mass production, whether is metals, liquids, or compounds.

None of this makes sense.  What are you saying here exactly?

 

[Fear The Turtle]

My friend who just lost his wife to covid posted an update on facebook.  It is very long so I won't post it.  He wanted to thank all the people that have shown his family support and love through the ordeal.  Some of it was heart-wrenching...  They were in the same hospital, but unable to see each other.  Initially I thought for some reason they were in different hospitals. He was there for 5 days. Sitting in his room, heart broken, knowing his wife was on a vent in ICU his daughter called him and told him to look out the window.  In the parking lot were a group of family and friends.  All socially distanced holding signs of support and waving to him.  It was something he really needed to lift his spirits.

When he was being discharged he asked to see her.  They of course couldn't let him do that because he had tested positive and would have to pass through areas of the hospital that were sterile between where he was and ICU.  It tore him up inside to not be able to hold her hand and comfort her.  They did video chats through an app the hospital uses, but she was heavily sedated and non-responsive.  His nurse came in the room in full PPE to comfort him when the doctor gave him the news that she was going on the ventilator.  

He said he is now 5 days removed from the hospital, quarantined at home.  Alone.  Grieving his wife's passing.  He wants to be with his kids to comfort them.  But can't.  Then family, friends, neighbors all started showing up at his house.  They dropped off flowers outside.  Talked to him through the window... All day long... All practicing social distancing but showing him love and support.  He said he must have had 50 people show up throughout the day.  It really helped lift his spirits.

At the end he said, "I guess what I'm trying to tell you is to take this virus seriously.  It can happen to anyone.  Thank you to the residents of __________ we have some outstanding folks here and I have an amazing group of family and friends.  Thank you all."

Heartbreaking. Can't imagine not being there for my wife. What are their ages?

 

[the moops]

Heartbreaking. Can't imagine not being there for my wife. What are their ages?

Also if he was positive with Covid why couldnt he see his wife?

 

[Fear The Turtle]

Also if he was positive with Covid why couldnt he see his wife?

I believe he said that they didn't want him traveling through the hospital, possibly infecting others, on his way to see his wife.

 

[beer 30]

Also if he was positive with Covid why couldnt he see his wife?

"They of course couldn't let him do that because he had tested positive and would have to pass through areas of the hospital that were sterile between where he was and ICU."

 

[the moops]

"They of course couldn't let him do that because he had tested positive and would have to pass through areas of the hospital that were sterile between where he was and ICU."

I didn't read too closely. Thanks

 

[JaxBill]

Heartbreaking. Can't imagine not being there for my wife. 

Agreed. The latest on my brother is that once the swelling receded, they found a new tumor on his brain. He is scheduled for surgery Thursday or Friday depending on availability. 

Due to Covid, even his wife is not allowed to visit. (He has tested negative, she has not been tested.)

I'm 850 miles away. Someone asked me if I was going to visit and my answer was "Why?".

 

[beer 30]

Agreed. The latest on my brother is that once the swelling receded, they found a new tumor on his brain. He is scheduled for surgery Thursday or Friday depending on availability. 

Due to Covid, even his wife is not allowed to visit. (He has tested negative, she has not been tested.)

I'm 850 miles away. Someone asked me if I was going to visit and my answer was "Why?".

That's tough man. I feel for you. I lived away from both of my parents when they passed (years ago, not because of this). It sucks not being there but sometimes you just can't get there. Stay strong, pray if you're so inclined, send positive thoughts. 

 

[top dog]

Heartbreaking. Can't imagine not being there for my wife. What are their ages?

She was 53.  He is 56.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Opps, yep it is actually 100 tests every second.  Damn decimal point.

It’s too bad you weren’t around to tell folks that it was impossible to build the bomb or put a man on the moon.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

My friend who just lost his wife to covid posted an update on facebook.  It is very long so I won't post it.  He wanted to thank all the people that have shown his family support and love through the ordeal.  Some of it was heart-wrenching...  They were in the same hospital, but unable to see each other.  Initially I thought for some reason they were in different hospitals. He was there for 5 days. Sitting in his room, heart broken, knowing his wife was on a vent in ICU his daughter called him and told him to look out the window.  In the parking lot were a group of family and friends.  All socially distanced holding signs of support and waving to him.  It was something he really needed to lift his spirits.

When he was being discharged he asked to see her.  They of course couldn't let him do that because he had tested positive and would have to pass through areas of the hospital that were sterile between where he was and ICU.  It tore him up inside to not be able to hold her hand and comfort her.  They did video chats through an app the hospital uses, but she was heavily sedated and non-responsive.  His nurse came in the room in full PPE to comfort him when the doctor gave him the news that she was going on the ventilator.  

He said he is now 5 days removed from the hospital, quarantined at home.  Alone.  Grieving his wife's passing.  He wants to be with his kids to comfort them.  But can't.  Then family, friends, neighbors all started showing up at his house.  They dropped off flowers outside.  Talked to him through the window... All day long... All practicing social distancing but showing him love and support.  He said he must have had 50 people show up throughout the day.  It really helped lift his spirits.

At the end he said, "I guess what I'm trying to tell you is to take this virus seriously.  It can happen to anyone.  Thank you to the residents of __________ we have some outstanding folks here and I have an amazing group of family and friends.  Thank you all."

Heart wrenching.  And also inspirational.

 

[jamny]

Cuomo stated today that the maximum amount of tests that can be done in NY State, with everything working at capacity, 24/7 would be 40,000 a week.

 

[the moops]

Cuomo stated today that the maximum amount of tests that can be done in NY State, with everything working at capacity, 24/7 would be 40,000 a week.

That isn't going to cut it

 

[Ksquared]

It’s too bad you weren’t around to tell folks that it was impossible to build the bomb or put a man on the moon.

Thanks for your response to a similar situation .  How long did it take to get either of those items to fruition?  And neither is mass produced and circulated.  That is my point, not that we cannot get to the point of the testing materials being produced, but it is a massive effort and takes some time to make and distribute this number of testing kits daily.

 

[jamny]

That isn't going to cut it

link

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Thanks for your response to a similar situation .  How long did it take to get either of those items to fruition?  And neither is mass produced and circulated.  That is my point, not that we cannot get to the point of the testing materials being produced, but it is a massive effort and takes some time to make and distribute this number of testing kits daily.

I agree with you.   We should still try.  Doesn't seem like we are trying very hard.

 

[Capella]

Cuomo stated today that the maximum amount of tests that can be done in NY State, with everything working at capacity, 24/7 would be 40,000 a week.

Yikes. 

 

[Sand]

Imagine the brightest minds in the world doing an autopsy on an alien - that's where we are right now.

We have video of those results in detail - Mulder and Scully did a bang up job.

 

[The Commish]

Thanks for your response to a similar situation .  How long did it take to get either of those items to fruition?  And neither is mass produced and circulated.  That is my point, not that we cannot get to the point of the testing materials being produced, but it is a massive effort and takes some time to make and distribute this number of testing kits daily.

We'd be there had this effort and focus started late Jan, early Feb.  

And stating the obvious, this wouldn't be such a monumental task today had we begun months ago.  It's only a big issue now because it wasn't addressed early.  It isn't a big issue now because it's difficult.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Earliest Covid death  was Feb 6th in Santa Clara https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1252826712963866625?s=21

Sorry if this was discussed already, just jumped back into the last couple of pages, and had seen this as well this morning. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/coronavirus-first-united-states-death.html

So 20 days earlier than what was thought to be the earliest US death up in Seattle.  There was another Santa Clara death on Feb 17th, and neither had any known travel histories so both are possibly indicative of community spread.  So now we're back into at least mid-January of the virus circulating in Santa Clara.

 

[Morton Muffley]

We'd be there had this effort and focus started late Jan, early Feb.  

And stating the obvious, this wouldn't be such a monumental task today had we begun months ago.  It's only a big issue now because it wasn't addressed early.  It isn't a big issue now because it's difficult.

I have a feeling we'll be saying the same thing in October (i.e. "too late now, if ONLY we had started in _____")

 

[The Commish]

I have a feeling we'll be saying the same thing in October (i.e. "too late now, if ONLY we had started in _____")

Well of course...until meaningful action is taken and an organized, national approach is in place, this is the new normal.

 

[Sand]

It's a formula....that formula doesn't change if you make an ounce of reagent or 10 gallons.

Scale up issues are a real thing.

-----

I haven't seen this posted, so thought I'd drop this one in here.  Austria reports a 90% drop in cases by requiring face masks.  

Part of me scoffs at the idea of one item being so influential in transmissibility.  The other part of me thinks that we should just do this and get back to living.  If this is accurate this is the magic bullet we're looking for.  And, frankly, I don't see a lot of downsides.  There isn't a big negative effect here of requiring us to wear these in public.  Why the CDC hasn't weighed the probabilities here I don't know.

 

[beer 30]

Scale up issues are a real thing.

-----

I haven't seen this posted, so thought I'd drop this one in here.  Austria reports a 90% drop in cases by requiring face masks.  

Part of me scoffs at the idea of one item being so influential in transmissibility.  The other part of me thinks that we should just do this and get back to living.  If this is accurate this is the magic bullet we're looking for.  And, frankly, I don't see a lot of downsides.  There isn't a big negative effect here of requiring us to wear these in public.  Why the CDC hasn't weighed the probabilities here I don't know.

To quote a header from the story, "Fast action saves lives."

This has not occurred other than at local and some state levels IMO. Anything more than that will get an obligatory drive-by from BnB telling me there is another forum for this discussion.

 

[Redwes25]

Cuomo stated today that the maximum amount of tests that can be done in NY State, with everything working at capacity, 24/7 would be 40,000 a week.

Well if that is all we can realistically do we need to figure out how to make that work. We can't just close NYC for good. 

 

[Doug B]

I haven't seen this posted, so thought I'd drop this one in here.  Austria reports a 90% drop in cases by requiring face masks.  

Part of me scoffs at the idea of one item being so influential in transmissibility.  The other part of me thinks that we should just do this and get back to living.  If this is accurate this is the magic bullet we're looking for.  And, frankly, I don't see a lot of downsides.  There isn't a big negative effect here of requiring us to wear (masks) in public.  Why the CDC hasn't weighed the probabilities here I don't know.

The CDC did post the following on April 3rd. We discussed it a bit in this thread. Since this came out, scattered communities across the U.S. have attempted to put this into practice, including NYC (though I don't know if it's just recommendations, or if it has the force of law, or what):

Recommendation Regarding the Use of Cloth Face Coverings, Especially in Areas of Significant Community-Based Transmission

CDC continues to study the spread and effects of the novel coronavirus across the United States.  We now know from recent studies that a significant portion of individuals with coronavirus lack symptoms (“asymptomatic”) and that even those who eventually develop symptoms (“pre-symptomatic”) can transmit the virus to others before showing symptoms.  This means that the virus can spread between people interacting in close proximity—for example, speaking, coughing, or sneezing—even if those people are not exhibiting symptoms.  In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.

It is critical to emphasize that maintaining 6-feet social distancing remains important to slowing the spread of the virus.  CDC is additionally advising the use of simple cloth face coverings to slow the spread of the virus and help people who may have the virus and do not know it from transmitting it to others.  Cloth face coverings fashioned from household items or made at home from common materials at low cost can be used as an additional, voluntary public health measure.

The cloth face coverings recommended are not surgical masks or N-95 respirators.  Those are critical supplies that must continue to be reserved for healthcare workers and other medical first responders, as recommended by current CDC guidance.

 

[shader]

Even though their cases are rebounding a bit, Italy has hit a true plateau.  Active cases over last 6 days:

106962

107771

108257

108237

107709

107699

 

[The Commish]

It's a formula....that formula doesn't change if you make an ounce of reagent or 10 gallons.

Scale up issues are a real thing.

sure....they aren't prohibitive by any stretch as has been suggested.  Again, we are in this position primarily because of a lack of early action, not because it's so hard to do it's taken this long to get it done.  There's been very little, meaningful action behind getting testing ramped up.  Again, the processing of the test is the last phase here.  The first two STILL haven't been addressed, so reagent creation hasn't needed to be scaled up...there is plenty for the current situation and approx another 40-50% increase from where we're at today.  The logical thing is to get test kit availability up to current thresholds WHILE working on getting the steps later down the road up to an even higher capacity moving forward.  This really isn't all that complicated if one is willing to mandate the work to get there

 

[Politician Spock]

Well if that is all we can realistically do we need to figure out how to make that work. We can just close NYC for good. 

Why the need for hyperbole?

 

[SFBayDuck]

The CDC did post the following on April 3rd. We discussed it a bit in this thread. Since this came out, scattered communities across the U.S. have attempted to put this into practice, including NYC (though I don't know if it's just recommendations, or if it has the force of law, or what):

It's been rolled out here in the Bay Area counties the past few days, hit my county effective today.  News stories indicating fines vary from $50-$1000, depending on the county.

https://www.marincounty.org/main/county-press-releases/press-releases/2020/hhs-covid-facecoveringorder-041720

 

[belljr]

2 local patients said to be doing amazingly well after blood transfusion

https://www.courierpostonline.com/story/news/2020/04/21/coronavirus-blood-plasma-therapy-virtua-health-voorhees-renee-bannister-andy-fei/2996203001/

 

[Redwes25]

Why the need for hyperbole?

sorry typo, meant to say we can't

 

[Alex P Keaton]

We'd be there had this effort and focus started late Jan, early Feb.  

And stating the obvious, this wouldn't be such a monumental task today had we begun months ago.  It's only a big issue now because it wasn't addressed early.  It isn't a big issue now because it's difficult.

Exactly.   Every day we wait to take this seriously is a failure.   We've failed every day since late January on this topic.  We should all be demanding this of our representatives.  Constantly.  

Edit to add:   this isn't a shot at one party.   Every politician - both sides - should be demanding this and pushing for it.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Scale up issues are a real thing.

-----

I haven't seen this posted, so thought I'd drop this one in here.  Austria reports a 90% drop in cases by requiring face masks.  

Part of me scoffs at the idea of one item being so influential in transmissibility.  The other part of me thinks that we should just do this and get back to living.  If this is accurate this is the magic bullet we're looking for.  And, frankly, I don't see a lot of downsides.  There isn't a big negative effect here of requiring us to wear these in public.  Why the CDC hasn't weighed the probabilities here I don't know.

Thanks for sharing.   This is what we need.    Appreciate the link.

 

[Sand]

It's been rolled out here in the Bay Area counties the past few days, hit my county effective today.  News stories indicating fines vary from $50-$1000, depending on the county.

https://www.marincounty.org/main/county-press-releases/press-releases/2020/hhs-covid-facecoveringorder-041720

Just treat it as lung training, GB.

 

[moleculo]

you know the best time to plant a tree?  30 years ago.  The second best time?  right now.

There is no reason we don't put a man-on-the-moon scale effort to ramp up testing immediately.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

That isn't going to cut it

That's almost a million tests a day if you roll out the per capita there across the US.  I'd sign up for that in a heartbeat.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Scale up issues are a real thing.

-----

I haven't seen this posted, so thought I'd drop this one in here.  Austria reports a 90% drop in cases by requiring face masks.  

Part of me scoffs at the idea of one item being so influential in transmissibility.  The other part of me thinks that we should just do this and get back to living.  If this is accurate this is the magic bullet we're looking for.  And, frankly, I don't see a lot of downsides.  There isn't a big negative effect here of requiring us to wear these in public.  Why the CDC hasn't weighed the probabilities here I don't know.

Kind of makes the CDC and WHO’s early guidance saying not to wear masks look really really bad.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Thanks. That’s what I mean. On the one hand we’ve been told that this virus stays “alive” way longer ok surfaces than others but it’s only transmitted via air? Kind of contradictory and if true don’t be wishy washy.

This is mostly why I have formed my opinion about this. They are wishy washy right now, but in reading tons of their other bulletins about other diseases that is pretty much how they are. "can't" isnt what we need to look for. I mean they list pre chewed food as a risk for transmitting HIV based on an analysis in 2009 of three cases from 1993-2004. I wasnt joking earlier when i made those comments about zika. It is on their site. 

I think what you need to look for are context clues and what you arent seeing reports of. 

I was also not joking about the sneezing on your lettuce comment. That comes right from quotes from angela rasmussen and will schaffner.

Original guidance was all about wash your hands, wash your hands. 

Now it is...

The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person.

Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet).

Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes or talks.

These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs.

Some recent studies have suggested that COVID-19 may be spread by people who are not showing symptoms.

Maintaining good social distance (about 6 feet) is very important in preventing the spread of COVID-19.

Spread from contact with contaminated surfaces or objects

It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about this virus.

When you combine all of that with the almost complete lack of evidence of asymptomatic or symptomatic spread from kids to adults, I think surface transmission is unlikely to be a real factor. Lets not forget the reason little kids are such common spreaders is because of how often they put their fingers and objects in their mouths and how they want to touch everything. 

Obviously not saying impossible, just saying not much of a factor.