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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
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Doug B
Footballguy
So sorry to hear this, man. Prayers and wishes that he beats both ailments.I haven't been in this thread for a while. However, I'm going to share some personal stuff here.
My brother just turned 48. He been afflicted with liver cancer for the last year or so. The other day, he was putting a pot away in the kitchen and his arm went Dave Dravecky and broke. It turns out the cancer has reached his bones.
As if that weren't bad enough, they take him to the hospital where they discover he also has COVID-19.At this point, it's a matter of which one gets him first.
Doug B
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
I'm seeing a lot of insanity in all directions out there.
- Saw an elderly couple working on the plants in their front yard the other day...with masks on.
- Ran into a guy I knew at a store and he tried to shake my hand.
- My mother-in-law thought it was a bad idea for my wife to have a friend come over and walk outside together because the neighbors might be upset about her "bringing the virus into the neighborhood." She is 72 and meets friends at public trails to walk about twice a week.
- My sister keeps asking us to bring the kids over to house so the cousins can play together.
Doug B
Footballguy
The Yahoo article was deliberately -- and irresponsibly -- posed. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Yahoo knows laymen will read "no evidence" as "CANNOT EVER HAPPEN!!! Totally ruled out 100%!", which makes the article more sensationalist and generates more clicks.
In truth, the evidence so far points to post-recovery immunity that lasts a relatively short time. That specific "short time" is not yet nailed down and will differ between individuals anyway. Might average two months. Might average six months, a year? Not enough evidence collected yet to be sure.
Think about this "no immunity, ever!" Yahoo article in conjunction with other established information that has already come out about COVID treatments - specifically plasma infusion from a recovered COVD patient. If no immunity ever developed, the plasma-infusion treatment would not work at all -- yet this treatment is known to be effective. The issue with plasma infusion from recovered patients is not efficacy -- it is the limited amount of plasma that can be collected from each individual recovered person. Not nearly enough to go around.
...
Yahoo has proven to be a pretty unreliable source for COVID information. They don't out and out invent stories from whole cloth. But they spin and obfuscate the ever-lovin' heck out of every bit of 50-50 information they can. And they are happy to take advantage of the population's general ignorance** about how information is vetted in science.
** not "stupidity" -- "ignorance" is not meant as a pejorative term here.
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Jayrod
Footballguy
Not too long ago (but before COVID-19), I found that Yahoo is very slanted in their articles and unreliable. I stopped visiting their news pieces a while back.
Doug B
Footballguy
Something else I'm running into, as well -- a lot of people think "outside air" is "filled with coronavirus"
Seen ideas along these lines, too. Really, as a proportion of the overall population, virtually no one understands how virus transmission works.
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Jayrod
Footballguy
I was trying to understand the logic there...like maybe they were just back from the store, or about to leave, but they looked like they were right in the middle of their plans of planting in their front flower beds.Something else I'm running into, as well -- a lot of people think "outside air" is "filled with coronavirus"
jplvr
Footballguy
You're probably right, but I'm about as ready to touch clothes at a store as I am a casino chip.
-fish-
Footballguy
See this type of thing everywhere around here. Mentioned the number of people driving in their cars alone on with a mask on yesterday. But also plenty of people doing things like gardening or just sitting on their front porch with a mask on.
We started with other countries going all mask all the time in public, then we get told by WHO and CDC it's a waste of resources, then we get told we should be wearing them after all but there's a shortage so every 12 year old who has taken a home economics course is now pumping out masks at a Nike sweatshop level. We're now flooded with fabric masks that, to be honest, don't do a whole lot of anything. No wonder people are confused about when and where to wear them.
jplvr
Footballguy
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-fish-
Footballguy
Hopefully the one you bought has a coffee filter insert for true protection.
I have some actual masks, but my backups are a box that I got from my daughter's orthodontist. Least they could do after I paid $6k for those braces.
I was tired of wearing a surgical mask so I bought one of those skull face bandanas. I know corny but I like it.
Anyway, I'm on line waiting to get into supermarket and elderly woman says to me "now THAT'S a mask." I reply "I figure if i gotta wear one I might as well look cool." She responds "it's why i got the pink walker, if I have to have one it might as well look cool. "
Anyway, I'm on line waiting to get into supermarket and elderly woman says to me "now THAT'S a mask." I reply "I figure if i gotta wear one I might as well look cool." She responds "it's why i got the pink walker, if I have to have one it might as well look cool. "
wazoo11
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
Not fair! All I got was a measly $3,400 direct deposit.
-fish-
Footballguy
NotSmart
Footballguy
NotSmart
Footballguy
It's a silver lining at best if we don't get a fully effective vaccine that prevents infection.
It's pretty devastating that there may not be such a vaccine... the vast majority of people are assuming there will be one, and even worse they've repeatedly heard 12 months mentioned as a potential time frame, as in "12 to 18 months".
Add in the open question about just how much immunity people have after recovering from C19, and there may be some serious ramifications to the future new normal.
For posterity:
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-vaccine-may-be-impossible-to-produce-scientists-covid-2020-4
Scientists fear the hunt for a coronavirus vaccine will fail and we will all have to live with the 'constant threat' of COVID-19
Adam Bienkov
6 hours ago
Getty
Some scientists fear that an effective coronavirus vaccine may prove impossible to produce.
The UK's Chief Medical Officer warned on Friday that there is "concerning" evidence suggesting that people can be reinfected with the virus.
He said evidence from other forms of coronavirus also suggests that immunity quickly wanes.
No vaccine has ever been approved for use against previous forms of coronavirus.
David Nabarro, professor of global health at Imperial College, said the world may have to learn to live with the "constant threat" of COVID-19.
Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.
Scientists fear that it may prove impossible to produce a working coronavirus vaccine and believe the world may have to simply learn to adapt to the permanent threat of COVID-19.
The UK's Chief Medical Officer, Christopher Whitty, told a Parliamentary committee on Friday that there was "concerning" evidence suggesting that it may not be possible to stimulate immunity to the virus.
"The first question we do not know is 'do you get natural immunity to this disease if you have had it, for a prolonged period of time?'" Whitty said.
"Now if we don't then it doesn't make a vaccine impossible but it makes it much less likely and we simply don't know yet.
He said there was "a little bit of evidence that some people have been reinfected with this having had a previous infection."
He added: "That's a slightly concerning situation."
Read more: There are more than 70 potential coronavirus vaccines in the works. Here are the top efforts to watch, including the 16 vaccines set to be tested in people this year.
No coronavirus vaccine has ever been produced
Getty
Doubts about the possibility of a viable vaccine are based largely on the fact that no vaccine has ever been approved for use in the US or UK against other forms of coronavirus.
Whitty told the committee the evidence from other forms of coronavirus was that "immunity [to the virus] wanes relatively quickly."
CORONAVIRUS LIVE UPDATES 15 hours agoLatest news
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Trump refuses to take questions at White House briefing the day after floating the false idea that disinfectant might be injected to kill coronavirus.
16 states are easing restrictions next week. Here's a breakdown of which stores will be allowed to reopen in each one.
Trump signed a new $484 billion stimulus package into law.
He said that the world needs "to be careful that we don't assume that we are going to have a vaccine for this disease as we have had for, let's say measles, which once you have it you're protected for life."
"We cannot guarantee success," he added.
"Vaccines are looked for, for every infectious disease, they are not found for all of them."
Read more: The US is sprinting to develop a coronavirus vaccine or treatment. Here's how 19 top drugmakers are racing to tackle the pandemic.
The World Health Organisation on Saturday also threw doubt on the possibility that immunity to the virus could be induced.
In a statement about plans by some governments to introduce so-called "immunity passports," for those previously infected with the virus the organisation said in a statement that: "there is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection."
Other scientists have also raised the possibility that a working virus may never emerge to deal with COVID-19.
In an interview with The Observer David Nabarro, professor of global health at Imperial College, London said the world had to realise that a vaccine may not be possible.
"You don't necessarily develop a vaccine that is safe and effective against every virus," he told the paper.
"Some viruses are very, very difficult when it comes to vaccine development - so for the foreseeable future, we are going to have to find ways to go about our lives with this virus as a constant threat."
Even if a fully effective vaccine proves impossible, Whitty believes that a partially effective vaccine would still be worth pursuing.
"You can have vaccines that are not capable of providing [high levels of] immunity, but they provide enough protection that people don't get severe disease.
"So we might get a vaccine that is rather less effective but is sufficiently effective, that if we vaccinated everyone at a high level of dying from this... we might well be able to massively reduce fatalities even if there was still natural infections."
Scientists fear the hunt for a coronavirus vaccine will fail and we will all have to live with the 'constant threat' of COVID-19
Adam Bienkov
6 hours ago
Getty
Some scientists fear that an effective coronavirus vaccine may prove impossible to produce.
The UK's Chief Medical Officer warned on Friday that there is "concerning" evidence suggesting that people can be reinfected with the virus.
He said evidence from other forms of coronavirus also suggests that immunity quickly wanes.
No vaccine has ever been approved for use against previous forms of coronavirus.
David Nabarro, professor of global health at Imperial College, said the world may have to learn to live with the "constant threat" of COVID-19.
Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.
Scientists fear that it may prove impossible to produce a working coronavirus vaccine and believe the world may have to simply learn to adapt to the permanent threat of COVID-19.
The UK's Chief Medical Officer, Christopher Whitty, told a Parliamentary committee on Friday that there was "concerning" evidence suggesting that it may not be possible to stimulate immunity to the virus.
"The first question we do not know is 'do you get natural immunity to this disease if you have had it, for a prolonged period of time?'" Whitty said.
"Now if we don't then it doesn't make a vaccine impossible but it makes it much less likely and we simply don't know yet.
He said there was "a little bit of evidence that some people have been reinfected with this having had a previous infection."
He added: "That's a slightly concerning situation."
Read more: There are more than 70 potential coronavirus vaccines in the works. Here are the top efforts to watch, including the 16 vaccines set to be tested in people this year.
No coronavirus vaccine has ever been produced
Getty
Doubts about the possibility of a viable vaccine are based largely on the fact that no vaccine has ever been approved for use in the US or UK against other forms of coronavirus.
Whitty told the committee the evidence from other forms of coronavirus was that "immunity [to the virus] wanes relatively quickly."
CORONAVIRUS LIVE UPDATES 15 hours agoLatest news
Dow climbs 260 points as tech shares, oil rebound drive gains.
'Let Mitch McConnell say no to it': Rep. Tim Ryan explains his plan to help the working class and give nearly every American over 16 years old $2,000 per month.
Trump refuses to take questions at White House briefing the day after floating the false idea that disinfectant might be injected to kill coronavirus.
16 states are easing restrictions next week. Here's a breakdown of which stores will be allowed to reopen in each one.
Trump signed a new $484 billion stimulus package into law.
He said that the world needs "to be careful that we don't assume that we are going to have a vaccine for this disease as we have had for, let's say measles, which once you have it you're protected for life."
"We cannot guarantee success," he added.
"Vaccines are looked for, for every infectious disease, they are not found for all of them."
Read more: The US is sprinting to develop a coronavirus vaccine or treatment. Here's how 19 top drugmakers are racing to tackle the pandemic.
The World Health Organisation on Saturday also threw doubt on the possibility that immunity to the virus could be induced.
In a statement about plans by some governments to introduce so-called "immunity passports," for those previously infected with the virus the organisation said in a statement that: "there is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection."
Other scientists have also raised the possibility that a working virus may never emerge to deal with COVID-19.
In an interview with The Observer David Nabarro, professor of global health at Imperial College, London said the world had to realise that a vaccine may not be possible.
"You don't necessarily develop a vaccine that is safe and effective against every virus," he told the paper.
"Some viruses are very, very difficult when it comes to vaccine development - so for the foreseeable future, we are going to have to find ways to go about our lives with this virus as a constant threat."
Even if a fully effective vaccine proves impossible, Whitty believes that a partially effective vaccine would still be worth pursuing.
"You can have vaccines that are not capable of providing [high levels of] immunity, but they provide enough protection that people don't get severe disease.
"So we might get a vaccine that is rather less effective but is sufficiently effective, that if we vaccinated everyone at a high level of dying from this... we might well be able to massively reduce fatalities even if there was still natural infections."
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
It's not worthless, but test interpretation is one of many facets of this pandemic that proves we have a terrible understanding of math.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Yep. IMO, good cough and hand hygiene obviate the need for most, if not all environmental sanitizing measures. Transmitting a sufficient viral inoculum from a surface to one's hands, to the upper respiratory tract is much less likely than inhaling infected droplets.
timschochet
Footballguy
So this Landlord I know, has a company with 4 employees, applied for the government money and got $75,000. He has about 100 tenants all told and he’s refusing to give anyone any free rent whatsoever. He tells everybody the same thing, apply to the government for help.
There’s a lot of crap going on. People taking advantage. I don’t like to judge other people but it’s starting to piss me off.
There’s a lot of crap going on. People taking advantage. I don’t like to judge other people but it’s starting to piss me off.
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max Unemployment benefits in Michigan (362) + extra 600 from govt = 962 or 24/hour.
"essential" employees at grocery stores and fast food etc in the range of 11/12 per hour
I know of one employer already who cant get his crew to come back to work because they're getting paid more to not work
makes total sense
TripItUp
Footballguy
should be reported and outed on the news...Id definitely call that in.
Will the IRS be involved as a watchdog agency for this type of stuff?
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jplvr
Footballguy
We forgave last month to our tenants, and probably will do so again, and I'm late on my mortgage, personally. I'm broke as hell right now. I've heard other landlords doing the same, but the a-holes get the attention. I could also probably argue a "both sides" on this one due to stimulus money, unemployment, etc.
About the only reason I will push back on the money issues is bill payment related to business. I get it if a retailer can't pay an invoice since they can't move product, but I've had to fight tooth and nail to get some people to let go of funds in real estate closings on the commercial end, but I'm in title insurance, and we tend to get upstreamed on things. Times like these I want to go to war over some guy delaying sending out a check for a week because he wants to get some extra cash for letting a payment sit in his escrow, but I know it wouldn't be better in the long run.
Who else is heading towards passing out by 8 pm?
boilerdave
Footballguy
I got $476
empty nester +75K income
bought a nice vacuum from a local vendor and gave the rest to my daughter that needs it more than I do
jplvr
Footballguy
I've bit my tongue for a while on "frontline workers" and what not, but didn't we go through a period of time where we gave athletes heck for comparing football games to battle? Cue the Kellen Winslow tape. I just watched a Jimmy Dore video where a chick said she only figured out recently that grocery store workers were "invaluable." I thank them every time I go, and sure, it was just a bad choice of words in the moment, but if you're under 60 and choosing the conveyor belt over self check out these days, you need a reality check. I'll admit it was a 50/50 proposition for me not too long ago if I had any produce, but they've cleaned that up. I'm not talking about stock boys, the guy unloading the truck, or the butchers and bakers. Check out clerks? I'm glad they have a job, and I hope none of them get sick, but let's slow down just a little.
Same thing, right?
https://media1.giphy.com/media/l3vRcsGfkGhbxbSHC/giphy.gif
https://media0.giphy.com/media/ZeRPs2bL5gUnoDdNEp/giphy.gif
Like I said, I'm at least severely buzzed, and bored as can be.
Same thing, right?
https://media1.giphy.com/media/l3vRcsGfkGhbxbSHC/giphy.gif
https://media0.giphy.com/media/ZeRPs2bL5gUnoDdNEp/giphy.gif
Like I said, I'm at least severely buzzed, and bored as can be.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
I’d say the Wal-Mart CEO commercial where he calls his workers front line heroes with the David Bowie song “Heroes” playing in the background but he doesn’t even offer them ####### health insurance is more disgusting but I digress.
Tenants who don't have their rent can just squat. Landlords will have little recourse right now. It will take landlords months to evict.
jplvr
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Sure we agree, I’m also glad they’re all working, but this CEO of Wal-Mart is raking it in with being able to be open, praising his employees that are doing it for him, but pays them like barely over welfare money and no health insurance. His workers are on Medicaid, basically making the taxpayers pay for his employees healthcare, and he should be ashamed of that. It’s a fake praise commercial. If they’re really heroes, then give them basic health insurance. Or ####. He makes so much loot look it up it’s disgusting. I hear you too, but it’s the crap like this that makes us look 3rd world to the other civilized nations where people have health insurance as a right. Might be nice in the face of a global pandemic. But this guy though has some nerve.
I’m a pharmacist in a grocery store chain but the workers on the grocery side of the store deserve just as much praise as we do. They are taking as much risk (probably more) as us without the reward, especially compensation. Most would be better off sitting and collecting unemployment. If there’s one place that someone who is positive still goes, it’s the grocery store.
Maybe hero is excessive but they are putting themselves and their families at significant risk for little pay. Maybe excessive is ok right now.
jplvr
Footballguy
So the GF was in Sam's about the time things really started to blow up, and 90% of their checkout lines here are self checkout. She said it took forever for someone to finally check her ID. She's 44. She was nearly in tears when I talked to her because people were yelling at her, apparently, and when she left, some woman was pretty snarky and said, "I hope you enjoy your wine." She's far less confrontational than me, so she just walked away. I would've had some fun with that woman.They don’t let me buy booze in self check out
and I don’t consider them heroes
Booze and produce make me second guess, but my Publix has a person stationed to handle the 4 self checkout stations for ID checks too.
My hangup was over the word "invaluable." I get they're at risk. Like I said, I thank the check-out people every time I use their lanes at the store. They aren't invaluable.
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
The litany continues on Covid worldometers. Over 90,000 new cases; over 6,000 deaths. In a couple of days, Russia will move past China for reported cases and a few days later pass Iran to become 7th on the list of cases. Brazil and Peru still climbing rapidly (10%/day or more) and now Ecuador has a 15% jump on lower numbers. In general, still just a slow and relentless slog all around the world.
And the majority of the time something can't scan and a store clerk needs to come assist anyway.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Freakin sweet potatoes never work right at my local grocer. They always ring up as white sweet potatoes which of course are like 3.99 a pound. Never even heard of them.
It says "sweet potatoes" but the price is crazy high and on the receipt you finally get to see sweet white. Been like this for like two years.
They have to manually bypass.
jplvr
Footballguy
That’s definitely a hole in my argument. There are 4 bag stands available at my store. Anything requiring more than that would be miserable. I’ve had enough for 5 or 6 bags necessary.
top dog
Footballguy
It's weird. I have 2 sons. One is deployed over in the middle east right now. He was in Iraq when the Iranian missiles hit. We have always been super proud of his sacrifices for our country. The other son is 19, has dyslexia and struggled hard through school his entire life. He is still finding his way. He works in the grocery section at the super walmart here in town. I'm awfully proud of his efforts right now as well. Never thought I'd be proud of someone working in grocery. But he goes in every day and puts himself at risk so everyone else can benefit. I won't drop the hero title on either of them. But I am proud of what they both are doing. I can't express enough of important our grocery/retail young folks are in these situations.Biff84 said:
Sensitivity (also called the true positive rate, the recall, or probability of detection[1] in some fields) measures the proportion of actual positives that are correctly identified as such (e.g., the percentage of sick people who are correctly identified as having the condition).
Specificity (also called the true negative rate) measures the proportion of actual negatives that are correctly identified as such (e.g., the percentage of healthy people who are correctly identified as not having the condition).
Specificity (also called the true negative rate) measures the proportion of actual negatives that are correctly identified as such (e.g., the percentage of healthy people who are correctly identified as not having the condition).
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
OK, fine. Nut BAG may have been the correct term.This sounds PAINFUL!But okay, I’ll try it.
https://www.amazon.com/Home-Premium-Food-Grade-Almond/dp/B00158U8DU/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=nut+bag&qid=1587868888&sr=8-7
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Saw this on NPR - a model that suggests when each state might be able to begin relaxing the social distancing rules.
Also from NPR, a few different viewpoints on a state-by-state basis.
Also from NPR, a few different viewpoints on a state-by-state basis.
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NotSmart
Footballguy
What if they weren't there?... their perceived value would go up in a hurry.jplvr said:
Anyone working on the front lines for low pay when they could be home sitting on their rear ends potentially making more money and not risking getting sick has my admiration and is doing an important job.
beer 30
Footballguy
- Status
