*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (11 Viewers)

[BobbyLayne]

2200 deaths today. 22 freaking hundred. We are so far away from returning to anything even resembling normal. 

That one day total would be close the entire U.S.  deaths in the War of 1812, so about 8th or 9th in costliest wars of the last 244 years.

Spoiler

We’ve lost over 7,000 in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11. Worst single years were like 904 in the former and less than 500 in the latter.

(military only. American contractors are another 1,500.

Civilian deaths in those regions is nearly impossible to calculate precisely but it’s in the ballpark of a half million.)

 

[cosjobs]

2200 deaths today. 22 freaking hundred. We are so far away from returning to anything even resembling normal. 

Has anyone seen recent projected death totals for USA? Seems like 100K would be bare minimum now, with 150, or even 200 more likely

 

[JaxBill]

@wojespn: Beginning on May 1, the NBA is allowing teams to open their practice facilities to players in cities and states where local governments have eased stay-at-home orders, sources tell ESPN.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Has anyone seen recent projected death totals for USA? Seems like 100K would be bare minimum now, with 150, or even 200 more likely

The five which are commonly cited (IHME is the one the WH Task Force favors) all stop in two months.

what 5 models project - April 22 update

Which is...interesting. Most epidemiologists say we’ll be living with Covid 19 until the vaccine becomes widely available (12-18 months.) Maybe they’re projecting it will just go away when summer comes.

 

[Mr.Pack]

OK, fine. Nut BAG may have been the correct term. 

https://www.amazon.com/Home-Premium-Food-Grade-Almond/dp/B00158U8DU/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=nut+bag&qid=1587868888&sr=8-7

I actually have one that one. Actually actually true. 

Use it to make iced coffee. 

 

[NotSmart]

It's weird.  I have 2 sons.  One is deployed over in the middle east right now.  He was in Iraq when the Iranian missiles hit.  We have always been super proud of his sacrifices for our country.  The other son is 19, has dyslexia and struggled hard through school his entire life.  He is still finding his way.  He works in the grocery section at the super walmart here in town.  I'm awfully proud of his efforts right now as well. Never thought I'd be proud of someone working in grocery.  But he goes in every day and puts himself at risk so everyone else can benefit.  I won't drop the hero title on either of them.  But I am proud of what they both are doing.  I can't express enough of important our grocery/retail young folks are in these situations.  

Both of your sons are helping people and facing real risk while doing it.

They're both heroes in my book.

 

[TLEF316]

At this point, if you're not a front line worker or living with a front line worker (or some unique scenario like a nursing home) .....how are you POSSIBLY contracting this disease? How were you contracting it 2 weeks ago? Its insanity.

I mean, I understand that someone could get really unlucky and get it during a trip to the grocery store or something (although, again, if you're not wearing all available PPE and doing everything possible to disinfect afterwards....shame on you) but that can't be EVERYONE.

I work in NYC, and at this point, I have feeling I wont be made to go into there until like July at the earliest.

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

Saw this on NPR - a model that suggests when each state might be able to begin relaxing the social distancing rules.

Also from NPR, a few different viewpoints on a state-by-state basis.

Georgia June 22nd.  One thing for sure either the model or the Governor are dead wrong.   We will find out who.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

At this point, if you're not a front line worker or living with a front line worker (or some unique scenario like a nursing home) .....how are you POSSIBLY contracting this disease? How were you contracting it 2 weeks ago? Its insanity.

I mean, I understand that someone could get really unlucky and get it during a trip to the grocery store or something (although, again, if you're not wearing all available PPE and doing everything possible to disinfect afterwards....shame on you) but that can't be EVERYONE.

I work in NYC, and at this point, I have feeling I wont be made to go into there until like July at the earliest.

I thought this when Von Miller tested positive a week or so ago. How’s he testing positive? A bit of family to family spread, but not seeing how so much community spread could still be happening.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

The five which are commonly cited (IHME is the one the WH Task Force favors) all stop in two months.

what 5 models project - April 22 update

Which is...interesting. Most epidemiologists say we’ll be living with Covid 19 until the vaccine becomes widely available (12-18 months.) Maybe they’re projecting it will just go away when summer comes.

I said this earlier, but the IHME model seems to insist that the death curve is going to be symmetric and drop off just as quickly as it rose (i.e., normally distributed around the peak date).  It's not doing that in the US and the countries that hit their peaks before us are showing there to be a prolonged tail that will extend out much longer than the model predicts.  See Italy, for example.  Spain is similar.

If the US does decide to largely open up, say, in May, that curve will extend even further out unless there is something that disrupts that trend.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I said this earlier, but the IMHE model seems to insist that the death curve is going to be symmetric and drop off just as quickly as it rose (i.e., normally distributed around the peak date).  It's not doing that in the US and the countries that hit their peaks before us are showing there to be a prolonged tail that will extend out much longer than the model predicts.  See Italy, for example.  Spain is similar.

If the US does decide to largely open up, say, in May, that curve will extend even further out unless there is something that disrupts that trend.

NYS has definitely seen a prolonged plateau of the lagging indicator of daily deaths. Not dripping nearly as fast as we had hoped.

We’re on the downside of the curve but 420-480 per day is horrific. Our dailys are equivalent to years of the Afghan war.

Also....not getting much play as far as I can tell (I’m not obsessively following news), but the antibody sample (21-22%) projects to 1.7M cases for NYC. Our actual confirmed cases and total deaths (which are hospital + nursing home only, even though home deaths are 8x higher in NYC) both vastly undercount reality.

Maybe others cities won’t see anything like the NYC numbers but I feel like we’re still in the dark about how many are infected and how many have the antibodies. Until we have solid numbers for the true infection rate we are not making informed decisions.

 

[kutta]

Has anyone seen recent projected death totals for USA? Seems like 100K would be bare minimum now, with 150, or even 200 more likely

I agree. I didn't understand a week ago when we were at 40k deaths and everyone kept saying 60k was the number and we were having 2k a day. It doesn't add up.

100k seems like the bottom end right now.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

So this Landlord I know, has a company with 4 employees, applied for the government money and got $75,000. He has about 100 tenants all told and he’s refusing to give anyone any free rent whatsoever. He tells everybody the same thing, apply to the government for help. 

There’s a lot of crap going on. People taking advantage. I don’t like to judge other people but it’s starting to piss me off. 

So, trying to figure out where to direct my outrage....

Business got 75k to pay business expenses (with. O backstory of what expenses might be)....

Business gets chastised for not passing along freebies to customers....

I agree that everyone (including me shortly) is going to have financial issues.  But what exactly is a landlord receiving government assistance supposed to use the money for?  Pretty sure the government didnt specifically say "to reduce tenants' rent"

Eta: I assume my mortgage company is going to get some sort of government assistance but that doesnt mean I can chastise them because they wont give me a break on my bill.  Sure, I can dislike them more, but....

 

[HairyGOATee]

Problem is that if they are used incorrectly, gloves can be as bad or worse than no gloves with cross contamination. 

Fair enough, but that's where other safe practices come into play, such as cleaning, shining flashlights on your body, and eating Clorox chewables.

 

[Aerial Assault]

I haven't been in this thread for a while.  However, I'm going to share some personal stuff here.

My brother just turned 48.  He been afflicted with liver cancer for the last year or so.  The other day, he was putting a pot away in the kitchen and his arm went Dave Dravecky and broke.  It turns out the cancer has reached his bones.

As if that weren't bad enough, they take him to the hospital where they discover he also has COVID-19.   At this point, it's a matter of which one gets him first.

Oh, I'm so very sorry to hear this, Tom.  All the very best wishes to him and you and his family.  

 

[parasaurolophus]

Fair enough, but that's where other safe practices come into play, such as cleaning, shining flashlights on your body, and eating Clorox chewables.

Of course hoarders got a hold of all of these by me so i had to buy the clorox  urinal cakes and break them apart. 

 

[msommer]

Brazil's going to have large numbers in two weeks or so

Sorry for the Hippling, but Brazil is basically not testing (currently about 1400/1m inhabitants) and their president is a #justaflubro so lots and lots of cases (and deaths) will remain unregistered. This week Bolsonaro fired his minister of health because he was advocating listening to and following WHO guidelines. I don't think a new one has been appointed yet but it is likely to be one that is more aligned with Bolsonaro's thinking.

 

[msommer]

Going to pass 40,000 US deaths today. So sad.

One week later the number to be passed today is 55,000. Still sad

 

[TheWinz]

Saw this on NPR - a model that suggests when each state might be able to begin relaxing the social distancing rules.

Also from NPR, a few different viewpoints on a state-by-state basis.

Blanket dates don't make sense for many adjacent states, unless interstate travel is banned.  For example, Montana borders the entire west side of North Dakota, but these 2 states are 10 weeks apart.  I understand this area is sparsely populated, but it would suck being a small business owner in ND, knowing that just 100 yards away, another store gets to open 10 weeks earlier.  Regional openings make much more sense.

 

[msommer]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-swedish-experiment-looks-like-it-s-paying-off

Many have called Sweden's approach a 'control group' for the world. Seems early to declare victory for them, but my fingers are crossed.

Paywall, so is this based on one of the two research papers that supposedly showed that herd immunity was close but were withdrawn due to calculation errors?

Also, Sweden is 10th (worst) in deaths per capita
 

 

[Dezbelief]

Texas has its first city opening up against Abbott's orders. To be fair this city has been in front of this pandemic as much as possible. The city quarantined itself when the governor and the president were both still calling the virus a hoax. I hope this opening up doesn't backfire. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texomashomepage.com/news/local-news/officials-hold-meeting-to-discuss-wichita-county-and-city-orders/amp/

All non-essential businesses in Wichita County to open, face coverings must be worn

UPDATE: April 24, 2020, 4:34 p.m.

Following questions about how the city is allowed to go against Governor Greg Abbott’s executive order for nonessential businesses the following statement was given by the Wichita Falls Public Information Office.

For those wondering how the city/county can contradict Gov. Greg Abbott’s executive order, this is the city’s statement.

“The City, based on its research, believes it has the authority to take this action. However, it is ultimately the individual business’s choice to open or not, based on their interpretation of the Governor’s orders. “

The Wichita Falls city attorney’s office said legally, they are allowed to open hair/nail salons, spas, gyms, bars, and restaurants because the governor’s executive order says people should “avoid visiting” these locations.

City Attorney Kinley Hegglund said the order doesn’t say people “cannot visit.”

If a business owner doesn’t feel comfortable opening, they don’t have too. 

Gyms and fitness centers can open if they comply with the guidelines.

The city attorney office also said that businesses do not have to present a plan to city officials. They just have a plan ready.

UPDATE: April, 24, 2020, 2:03 p.m.

Wichita County Judge Woody Gossom announced Friday afternoon that face coverings must be worn by all individuals over the age of six.

Wichita Falls Mayor Stephen Santellana issued the “Live Safe, Work Safe” order that will go into effect at 8:00 a.m. April 25, 2020.

Businesses that were deemed non-essential (hair/nail salons, retail stores, restaurants, bars, etc) in Wichita Falls and Wichita County are allowed to reopen as of Saturday at 8 a.m. Each business must present city and county leaders with a sanitization plan.

 Those six and older are required to wear a mask when out in public.
 Businesses must practice health sanitization standards and social distancing practices.
 Social gatherings are limited to no more than ten people.
 Businesses are strongly recommended to screen all employees.

When it comes to churches, city and county leaders are following the executive order of Gov. Greg Abbott.

The order urges the churches to conduct services remotely, but forbid local officials from ordering a house of worship to close to slow the spread of COVID-19.

You can read the full order below.

 

[msommer]

I do think worldometer is way off in it's stats for many areas, but we are only at 173K right now.  Perhaps you are missing a decimal point and a zero as well?

Approx half the world isn't really trying to test for the virus (or is not telling what they are doing). India, China, Indonesia, most of Africa, basically all of South America, large parts of the Middle East.

 

[Otis]

Texas has its first city opening up against Abbott's orders. To be fair this city has been in front of this pandemic as much as possible. The city quarantined itself when the governor and the president were both still calling the virus a hoax. I hope this opening up doesn't backfire. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texomashomepage.com/news/local-news/officials-hold-meeting-to-discuss-wichita-county-and-city-orders/amp/

All non-essential businesses in Wichita County to open, face coverings must be worn

UPDATE: April 24, 2020, 4:34 p.m.

Following questions about how the city is allowed to go against Governor Greg Abbott’s executive order for nonessential businesses the following statement was given by the Wichita Falls Public Information Office.

For those wondering how the city/county can contradict Gov. Greg Abbott’s executive order, this is the city’s statement.

“The City, based on its research, believes it has the authority to take this action. However, it is ultimately the individual business’s choice to open or not, based on their interpretation of the Governor’s orders. “

The Wichita Falls city attorney’s office said legally, they are allowed to open hair/nail salons, spas, gyms, bars, and restaurants because the governor’s executive order says people should “avoid visiting” these locations.

City Attorney Kinley Hegglund said the order doesn’t say people “cannot visit.”

If a business owner doesn’t feel comfortable opening, they don’t have too. 

Gyms and fitness centers can open if they comply with the guidelines.

The city attorney office also said that businesses do not have to present a plan to city officials. They just have a plan ready.

UPDATE: April, 24, 2020, 2:03 p.m.

Wichita County Judge Woody Gossom announced Friday afternoon that face coverings must be worn by all individuals over the age of six.

Wichita Falls Mayor Stephen Santellana issued the “Live Safe, Work Safe” order that will go into effect at 8:00 a.m. April 25, 2020.

Businesses that were deemed non-essential (hair/nail salons, retail stores, restaurants, bars, etc) in Wichita Falls and Wichita County are allowed to reopen as of Saturday at 8 a.m. Each business must present city and county leaders with a sanitization plan.

 Those six and older are required to wear a mask when out in public.
 Businesses must practice health sanitization standards and social distancing practices.
 Social gatherings are limited to no more than ten people.
 Businesses are strongly recommended to screen all employees.

When it comes to churches, city and county leaders are following the executive order of Gov. Greg Abbott.

The order urges the churches to conduct services remotely, but forbid local officials from ordering a house of worship to close to slow the spread of COVID-19.

You can read the full order below.

Actually seems pretty reasonable to me. Seems we are all going to head in a similar direction soon, which is good. 
 

The one problem I still can’t figure out is places with huge crowds in tight spaces. Concerts and sporting events and, more personal to me, mass transit like the NYC subway and LIRR. I don’t see how you flood mass transit with people again. I also don’t see how you keep it “light” unless businesses in NYC and other high congestion areas with lots of commuting remain closed or only half open or something. 

 

[Sammy3469]

Actually seems pretty reasonable to me. Seems we are all going to head in a similar direction soon, which is good. 
 

The one problem I still can’t figure out is places with huge crowds in tight spaces. Concerts and sporting events and, more personal to me, mass transit like the NYC subway and LIRR. I don’t see how you flood mass transit with people again. I also don’t see how you keep it “light” unless businesses in NYC and other high congestion areas with lots of commuting remain closed or only half open or something. 

I know at least one big bank is planning on just traders and at best 25% of staff with a return to cubes with plexiglass to the ceilings. 

I know my company is looking at 25-33% staffing at best (and I think that’s optimistic).  We basically have to reconfigure our entire floor as we were “open concept”.

It’s a nightmare to figure out.

This is one of the reasons I wondered if NYC would bounce back any time soon.  You really can’t socially distance and work in any real numbers.  That doesn’t even get into how do you manage your the elevators.  

 

[Dezbelief]

Actually seems pretty reasonable to me. Seems we are all going to head in a similar direction soon, which is good. 
 

The one problem I still can’t figure out is places with huge crowds in tight spaces. Concerts and sporting events and, more personal to me, mass transit like the NYC subway and LIRR. I don’t see how you flood mass transit with people again. I also don’t see how you keep it “light” unless businesses in NYC and other high congestion areas with lots of commuting remain closed or only half open or something. 

Mass transit is going to be next to impossible to make safe from the coronavirus. 

 

[Jayrod]

Approx half the world isn't really trying to test for the virus (or is not telling what they are doing). India, China, Indonesia, most of Africa, basically all of South America, large parts of the Middle East.

This.

Real numbers are significantly higher than what is being reported. No one has any idea how high, but some pockets have noticeable differences between increases in deaths and reported COVID deaths.

 

[tri-man 47]

Blanket dates don't make sense for many adjacent states, unless interstate travel is banned.  For example, Montana borders the entire west side of North Dakota, but these 2 states are 10 weeks apart.  I understand this area is sparsely populated, but it would suck being a small business owner in ND, knowing that just 100 yards away, another store gets to open 10 weeks earlier.  Regional openings make much more sense.

Good point!  But then I wonder - where does it end?  By extension, are we only as strong as our weakest link?  As one poster responded above, if we're wrong, we could be "dead wrong."  Such difficult decisions.

 

[TheWinz]

Actually seems pretty reasonable to me. Seems we are all going to head in a similar direction soon, which is good. 
 

The one problem I still can’t figure out is places with huge crowds in tight spaces. Concerts and sporting events and, more personal to me, mass transit like the NYC subway and LIRR. I don’t see how you flood mass transit with people again. I also don’t see how you keep it “light” unless businesses in NYC and other high congestion areas with lots of commuting remain closed or only half open or something. 

New York has more deaths than 46 states COMBINED!  Social distancing is literally impossible no matter what you do in sardine-packed areas.

 

[msommer]

Seems like the most opportune time to make strides in completing road construction/repairs.  Especially in places like here in Michigan where they are so bad.  Seems that activity has social distancing built in, not many vehicles on the road, good for road construction workers to get a paycheck.  Governor "Fix the Damn Roads" Whitmer, I assume, has funds set aside to do this since this was her main campaign platform.  What am I missing?

Do workers generally stand close to each other when fixing roads? From my anecdotal experience there generally seems to be one guy doing something on a machine and then another 6-8 guys standing around him smoking/chatting.....

 

[jobarules]

Actually seems pretty reasonable to me. Seems we are all going to head in a similar direction soon, which is good. 
 

The one problem I still can’t figure out is places with huge crowds in tight spaces. Concerts and sporting events and, more personal to me, mass transit like the NYC subway and LIRR. I don’t see how you flood mass transit with people again. I also don’t see how you keep it “light” unless businesses in NYC and other high congestion areas with lots of commuting remain closed or only half open or something. 

The subway is why numbers will never reach the low levels needed to reach phase 3. I think in NYC we are going to have to live with higher levels if we want an economy. 

 

[GoBirds]

Do workers generally stand close to each other when fixing roads? From my anecdotal experience there generally seems to be one guy doing something on a machine and then another 6-8 guys standing around him smoking/chatting.....

Hmmm, how could they ever fix this if this generalization was even true? I feel like there’s a way. 

 

[cosjobs]

Of course hoarders got a hold of all of these by me so i had to buy the clorox  urinal cakes and break them apart. 

You can usually get those slightly used in any public bathroom

 

[jobarules]

Maybe these Washington IHME models should stop being used. They were way overestimating deaths early and now seem to be underestimating deaths. I know models are just projections and only as good as the data but they consistently seem to be wrong. 

 

[cosjobs]

Ingelsby, from the John Hopkins / Bloomberg School of health on Chris Wallace this morning:

58-100K total deaths in the next month

Currently 150K tests/day. Not nearly the scale to do business testing

Hydroxychloroqinine (sp?) - No one should take this unless participating in a clinical trial.

 

[gump]

All In Challenge update...up to $20M raised.  Dinner with DJ Khaled and backstage at SNL the latest prizes.

 

[Man In The Box]

I haven't been in this thread for a while.  However, I'm going to share some personal stuff here.

My brother just turned 48.  He been afflicted with liver cancer for the last year or so.  The other day, he was putting a pot away in the kitchen and his arm went Dave Dravecky and broke.  It turns out the cancer has reached his bones.

As if that weren't bad enough, they take him to the hospital where they discover he also has COVID-19.   At this point, it's a matter of which one gets him first.

I'm so sorry Tom. We lost my brother to liver cancer three years ago, he was 40. Such an awful disease. My heart goes out to you and your family.

 

[ROCKET]

Do workers generally stand close to each other when fixing roads? From my anecdotal experience there generally seems to be one guy doing something on a machine and then another 6-8 guys standing around him smoking/chatting.....

Other than the standing/smoking how is this any different than a typical office?

 

[msommer]

The dynamics of NYC produced a rate of virus spread that no other area of the country could possibly reproduce. 

Not sure about that. Quite apart from China we have no idea what is going on in a large part of the world where testing simply isn't done in anyway near the numbers that seem to be required to map the spread of the disease. Someone who comes close though might be the UK. I don't have the breakdown NYC to London so NY state to UK will have to suffice.

NY has so far 1,117/1m inhabitants death per capita. they've done approx 40K tests per 1m inhabitants. In comparison, the UK has done approx 25% of the tests per capita compared to NY, but the keen eyed observer will note that the UK only has 299 deaths per 1m inhabitant. Fake news, right? Except the UK doesn't yet count deaths at anywhere else than the hospital. Not at home, not in nursing homes. Currently we have no idea how many deaths that is, but I've seen ranges from 33% (DK) to 50% (NJ) of total deaths in nursing homes, so that takes the UK at least close to NJ. And that's with far less testing...

My point is merely that I'm not sure there's anything inherently unique about NYC that couldn't be recreated without us knowing it in Sao Paulo, Tehran, Mumbai, Lima, Guayaquil or elsewhere where tests are hard to come by

 

[msommer]

Most countries numbers are worldometer are completely useless.

In fairness this is not due to a flaw in worldometer, but either in the reporting done by the country itself or in the lack of test done by the country itself (of living and dead)

 

[msommer]

I got a coupon for some Lysol.

I'd be worried if there was a syringe attached

 

[msommer]

Other than the standing/smoking how is this any different than a typical office?

In my experience a coffee break happens infrequently. YMMV

 

[jobarules]

I do think some people are overreacting with social distancing. My son hasn't left the house in 6 weeks. His cousins also haven't left the house in 6 weeks. They are all perfectly healthy. My wife floated the idea last week with her sister about hanging out with adults social distancing in backyard and kids playing together. Sister was totally against it. I don't get it. None of us have left the house except for food shopping so the risk is VERY low. How long does this restriction go on though? When we start opening things up you can make the case that the risks will be higher. So this kid won't be able to play with his cousins for how long? I can see a lot of families arguing about this in the upcoming months. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Other than the standing/smoking how is this any different than a typical office?

It's outdoors.  Knowing what we know about how this virus spreads, outdoor activities are safer than indoor activities, and it's a difference-in-kind not difference-in-degree increase in safety.

 

[jobarules]

2200 deaths today. 22 freaking hundred. We are so far away from returning to anything even resembling normal. 

Agreed. Gonna blow my that 60k death number. That being said is there a specific number we should be shooting for for shelter in place to be lifted? Or was shelter in place supposed to not overwhelm the hospitals. I wish we had the answer. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

I do think some people are overreacting with social distancing. My son hasn't left the house in 6 weeks. His cousins also haven't left the house in 6 weeks. They are all perfectly healthy. My wife floated the idea last week with her sister about hanging out with adults social distancing in backyard and kids playing together. Sister was totally against it. I don't get it. None of us have left the house except for food shopping so the risk is VERY low. How long does this restriction go on though? When we start opening things up you can make the case that the risks will be higher. So this kid won't be able to play with his cousins for how long? I can see a lot of families arguing about this in the upcoming months. 

I started letting my kids be outside with other kids when the original safer at home order was supposed to expire. My son had two friends over yesterday for a bonfire. We had a tree fall in the storm wednesday. I got it cut into pieces and they hauled it over to our huge fire pit area. 

My wife and daughter are going to play with her sister and kids today. Beautiful outside. 

Locking my kids inside for weeks on end with no socialization is not something I plan on doing any more. Was torn between being a rule follower and engaging in behavior i completely disagree with since the risk to kids is minimal. Without actual data and any plan being presented for the extension I have moved on from caring about being a rule follower regarding this issue. I wont let them trespass into park areas that are closed or onto school fields that are posted closed, but otherwise dont care. 

Going to start going to lowes and getting some stuff done around my house now too. Which is allowed and based on what I have been seeing in the parking lot pretty much everyday ( i live right down the street from one so I run by often) everybody else seems to be going there for "essentials". 

 

[Kal El]

Other than the standing/smoking how is this any different than a typical office?

They're outside, away from recycled air, and usually when standing around with one guy digging, it's to take turns so they don't get exhausted, or because the hole isn't wide enough for two.

 

[msommer]

Agreed. Gonna blow my that 60k death number. That being said is there a specific number we should be shooting for for shelter in place to be lifted? Or was shelter in place supposed to not overwhelm the hospitals. I wish we had the answer. 

I think, given your fractitious setup, that it will be state dependent (and that too will be a clustereff since interstate travel is allowed). It ought to be dependent on the expected degree of open ICU beds/ventilators and based on a solid knowledge of how the virus is spreading ie. lots and lots of testing. That would mean testing people with and without symptoms, regularly

 

[JAA]

It's weird.  I have 2 sons.  One is deployed over in the middle east right now.  He was in Iraq when the Iranian missiles hit.  We have always been super proud of his sacrifices for our country.  The other son is 19, has dyslexia and struggled hard through school his entire life.  He is still finding his way.  He works in the grocery section at the super walmart here in town.  I'm awfully proud of his efforts right now as well. Never thought I'd be proud of someone working in grocery.  But he goes in every day and puts himself at risk so everyone else can benefit.  I won't drop the hero title on either of them.  But I am proud of what they both are doing.  I can't express enough of important our grocery/retail young folks are in these situations.  

Thank you for sharing.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Veterans are suffering horribly in this crisis.

• Soldiers Home in Holyoke, western Mass - 75 dead/65 from Covid 19. 85 residents have tested positive, while 60 residents have tested negative, and 8 have pending tests. As it relates to staff, 81 employees have tested positive.

• State Veterans Home in Stony Brook, Long Island COVID-19 death toll at Stony Brook veterans home climbs to 52 350 beds, sixty-five residents have tested positive for the virus. Fifty-seven of 126 staff members who have been tested for the virus have tested positive, and 23 have recovered and returned to work. Obtaining PPE for staff has been an ongoing issue. 

• Veterans Home in Reserve, LA- 144 residents, 43 deaths in the past 30 days (previous month it was 7), 24 confirmed Covid 19 deaths. 68 residents have tested positive for COVID-19, 6 remain hospitalized (including one who has recovered from COVID), 34 are being treated at the veterans home, 4 have recovered. 47 other residents have tested negative and the results on six others were inconclusive. Louisiana veterans home reports 43 deaths in 30 days

 

[JAA]

Texas has its first city opening up against Abbott's orders. To be fair this city has been in front of this pandemic as much as possible. The city quarantined itself when the governor and the president were both still calling the virus a hoax. I hope this opening up doesn't backfire. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texomashomepage.com/news/local-news/officials-hold-meeting-to-discuss-wichita-county-and-city-orders/amp/

All non-essential businesses in Wichita County to open, face coverings must be worn

UPDATE: April 24, 2020, 4:34 p.m.

Following questions about how the city is allowed to go against Governor Greg Abbott’s executive order for nonessential businesses the following statement was given by the Wichita Falls Public Information Office.

For those wondering how the city/county can contradict Gov. Greg Abbott’s executive order, this is the city’s statement.

“The City, based on its research, believes it has the authority to take this action. However, it is ultimately the individual business’s choice to open or not, based on their interpretation of the Governor’s orders. “

The Wichita Falls city attorney’s office said legally, they are allowed to open hair/nail salons, spas, gyms, bars, and restaurants because the governor’s executive order says people should “avoid visiting” these locations.

City Attorney Kinley Hegglund said the order doesn’t say people “cannot visit.”

If a business owner doesn’t feel comfortable opening, they don’t have too. 

Gyms and fitness centers can open if they comply with the guidelines.

The city attorney office also said that businesses do not have to present a plan to city officials. They just have a plan ready.

UPDATE: April, 24, 2020, 2:03 p.m.

Wichita County Judge Woody Gossom announced Friday afternoon that face coverings must be worn by all individuals over the age of six.

Wichita Falls Mayor Stephen Santellana issued the “Live Safe, Work Safe” order that will go into effect at 8:00 a.m. April 25, 2020.

Businesses that were deemed non-essential (hair/nail salons, retail stores, restaurants, bars, etc) in Wichita Falls and Wichita County are allowed to reopen as of Saturday at 8 a.m. Each business must present city and county leaders with a sanitization plan.

 Those six and older are required to wear a mask when out in public.
 Businesses must practice health sanitization standards and social distancing practices.
 Social gatherings are limited to no more than ten people.
 Businesses are strongly recommended to screen all employees.

When it comes to churches, city and county leaders are following the executive order of Gov. Greg Abbott.

The order urges the churches to conduct services remotely, but forbid local officials from ordering a house of worship to close to slow the spread of COVID-19.

You can read the full order below.

Texas is not taking this seriously IMHO.  They are testing 4th least out of every state in the nation.  Considering how much population and money the state has they should be embarrassed.  Just my opinion here.

I think our fed govt orders are pretty good.  That said, we need more more more more testing.  Get.  More.  Testing. !.