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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (3 Viewers)

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NorvilleBarnes said:
Went to three places today and I think mask usage (in the Tampa area) is actually on the decline. Last week it seemed like 90% of the people in Target had a mask. Today it seemed like about 50% and even lower at the other two places. Of course this is anecdotal but it was a visible difference.
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Distancing still occuring I hope?

 
matuski said:
NorvilleBarnes said:
Went to three places today and I think mask usage (in the Tampa area) is actually on the decline. Last week it seemed like 90% of the people in Target had a mask. Today it seemed like about 50% and even lower at the other two places. Of course this is anecdotal but it was a visible difference.
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Distancing still occuring I hope?
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About the same or maybe a slight decline. Better in the places that have clearly marked spots on the floor for a line.

 
matuski said:
If you are symptomatic, you are doing more good wearing a mask.  I would argue you are doing a larger wrong by being out at all.. but for the sake of this talk.

If you are not symptomatic, wearing a mask wrong.. as wrong as most people I am seeing now daily?  You are not doing much if any good.  

If you just nail wearing your PPE in a public space (very hard to do), you are accomplishing something.
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Thanx for the reply.  So, you are saying wearing a mask is doing more good for symptomatic people, even if worn wrong.  Let's now move on to asymptomatic ones.  I am asymptomatic but have not been tested (I may have it, maybe not).  Are you saying wearing a mask wrong is going to help spread the virus or limit it, if I am positive? 

 
TheWinz said:
Thanx for the reply.  So, you are saying wearing a mask is doing more good for symptomatic people, even if worn wrong.  Let's now move on to asymptomatic ones.  I am asymptomatic but have not been tested (I may have it, maybe not).  Are you saying wearing a mask wrong is going to help spread the virus or limit it, if I am positive? 
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If you are following general social distancing, and taking otherwise courteous precautions (sneeze into elbow, etc)... I just dont understand what the benefit is if you arent doing it right.

eta - you are not WRONG.  You aren't a horrible person.  You are doing what you are told.... it is just brutal to watch some of you seemingly do everything you can to make an alleged precaution into just another risk.

 
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matuski said:
If you are following general social distancing, and taking otherwise courteous precautions (sneeze into elbow, etc)... I just dont understand what the benefit is if you arent doing it right.

eta - you are not WRONG.  You aren't a horrible person.  You are doing what you are told.... it is just brutal to watch some of you seemingly do everything you can to make an alleged precaution into just another risk.
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My whole point of asking - wearing a mask, no matter how badly you wear it, still LIMITS the spread.  FTR, I also am trained & qualified on everything from a basic mask to full on SCBA gear.  My job depends on it.  If I fail a yearly CBT 3 times, I am fired, no questions asked.  So yeah, I wear my mask the right way, even though my wife made it from an old t-shirt.   :D

 
Atomic Punk said:
There is currently no mandatory, or even recommended, use of masks in Canada according to the national website.

Im not commenting on the efficacy of masks but rather the attempt by some, including many on the last few pages, to belittle others that aren’t wearing them, even though they have no idea of that persons particular location/situation. 
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As I said before I do not assign any blame to people not wearing a mask. Doctors and the media have messed up this messaging so bad. 

I found this article interesting. 

People will demand studies or irrefutable proof that masks work but then provide zero proof for why they dont work outside of anecdotal or psychological. 

You can see this very thing with matuski in the last however many posts. Asks for proof from others but then also cant provide any regarding his thoughts. 

That article presents links to the relevant information. That studies show that masks can block viral particles. 

That should have been enough proof for doctors that masks should be worn. The article also points out that nobody asks for RCS's showing that washing your hands for 20 seconds is better than 10 regarding getting sick. It was based on data like this checking for virus particles after different time intervals. 

Also points out how keeping a 6 foot distance wasnt questioned either. Nobody is saying well if you are really tall 6 feet isnt enough or how it is impossible to always stay six feet away so it doesnt help. 

 
matuski said:
Restaurants are open here too (TX).  We wore our masks in to be seated then removed them when we sat, servers wore masks.
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Exactly as I would expect. Can’t wear a mask while eating or at a bar. THAT is ridiculous and shouldn’t be expected. And also why restaurants and bars are the toughest to reopen safely.

 
parasaurolophus said:
People will demand studies or irrefutable proof that masks work but then provide zero proof for why they dont work outside of anecdotal or psychological. 

You can see this very thing with matuski in the last however many posts. Asks for proof from others but then also cant provide any regarding his thoughts. 
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You are trying very hard to misrepresent my posting.  Unfortunate, but entirely expected here.

There is extensive evidence on PPE efficacy WHEN USED PROPERLY.  It is assumed that not using it properly would not lead to these efficacious results.

All of you, and I mean damn near ALL of you not using it properly, cannot use the studies on PPE as a logical argument.  :shrug:

eta - I love the argument where you demand proof of a negative  :lmao:

 
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Grahamburn said:
I was just reading through the thread and so many posters are acting like a mask is some kind of all encompassing virus annihilator.  They most certainly aren't.  Especially for the healthy general public.

Anyway.  I'll keep wearing mine when I go out so I don't get hauled in for manslaughter. 
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Masks aren’t a cure-all, save-all. Far from it. They are a tool in preventing the further spread of the virus, especially to the most vulnerable parts of our population. And to prove my general point, how do you even know you are part of the ‘healthy general public’? Have you been tested recently?

 
@parasaurolophus

HAHAHAHA

I almost missed you trying to post an article discrediting the evidence of hand washing.

I mean.. only centuries worth?  Nevermind the common sense of it.  Off the top of my head dating back to the 1600s plagues?

It is the single most important thing you can do.  Not for covid.. for anything.  Lets attack that?  Good call.

eta - can't wait to tell my surgeon tomorrow at the scrub sink.. hey what evidence is there for this step? :lmao:

 
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matuski said:
@parasaurolophus

HAHAHAHA

I almost missed you trying to post an article discrediting the evidence of hand washing efficacy.

I mean.. only centuries worth?  Nevermind the common sense of it.

It is the single most important thing you can do.  Lets attack that?  Good call.
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Agreed.  Clean hands are doing more to limit the spread versus masks.  We are human.  Almost everything we do involves our hands.  If you had COVID of the nutsack, you're gonna spread it by fondling yourself.

 
matuski said:
@parasaurolophus

HAHAHAHA

I almost missed you trying to post an article discrediting the evidence of hand washing.

I mean.. only centuries worth?  Nevermind the common sense of it.  Off the top of my head dating back to the 1600s plagues?

It is the single most important thing you can do.  Not for covid.. for anything.  Lets attack that?  Good call.

eta - can't wait to tell my surgeon tomorrow at the scrub sink.. hey what evidence is there for this step? :lmao:
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I am sorry you didnt read the article and somehow came up with such a silly conclusion. 

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
Went to three places today and I think mask usage (in the Tampa area) is actually on the decline. Last week it seemed like 90% of the people in Target had a mask. Today it seemed like about 50% and even lower at the other two places. Of course this is anecdotal but it was a visible difference.
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That kind of sucks.  I'll have to go back to wearing a mask.  If everyone else would just wear their mask, I wouldn't have to.

 
parasaurolophus said:
That should have been enough proof for doctors that masks should be worn. The article also points out that nobody asks for RCS's showing that washing your hands for 20 seconds is better than 10 regarding getting sick. It was based on data like this checking for virus particles after different time intervals. 
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To clarify here since @matuski was so confused and clearly couldnt be bothered to read the article, the point is that they didnt demand rcs to prove that washing your hands for 20 seconds was more effective than ten. Simulations showing that more particles were on your hands after 10 seconds than there were after 20 was good enough. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
To clarify here since @matuski was so confused and clearly couldnt be bothered to read the article, the point is that they didnt demand rcs to prove that washing your hands for 20 seconds was more effective than ten. Simulations showing that more particles were on your hands after 10 seconds than there were after 20 was good enough. 
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Titel of the article:

No one complained about the lack of evidence for 20-second hand-washing. 

 
If that article then went on to purport and support the evidence of hand washing.. then what is the point :lmao:

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT WASHING YOUR HANDS MORE IS BETTER?

Wtf @parasaurolophus

 
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matuski said:
If that article then went on to purport and support the evidence of hand washing.. then what is the point :lmao:

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT WASHING YOUR HANDS MORE IS BETTER?

Wtf @parasaurolophus
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When they say "evidence" in that byline they mean in the context of evidence based medicine. 

So they aren't contradicting themselves when they then link to a study that shows washing for 20 seconds gets rid of more particles than washing for 10.

Evidence in that context means no RCS. As in there is no study that exposes people to the same amount of virus and then has group A wash for 10 seconds and group B wash for 20 ten times a day. and then they see how many people got sick or how sick.

They(meaning doctors not the writers) are making the logical conclusion that more bacteria and viruses on your hands is a less desirable outcome. 

The writers then point out 16 studies with masks showing that they limit the particles on the outbound and on the inbound but because there was no RCS showing that this led to fewer people being sick somehow doctors arent willing to accept that fewer particles coming out and fewer particles going in is sufficient to reco wearing a mask.

Hence the "double standard"

 
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JAA said:
Who is afraid to go to the ER?  I’ve not heard or read one specific instance of this. 
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If I was sent to be checked out for covid, I'd only be concerned if it's a busy night and I'm waiting a long time to be tested.

For other issues, my fear has always been the long wait time to get labs or scans back and then the wait to see the doc. I'm not patient and think negatively while waiting.

I've mostly gone in for serious infections. The ER is pretty sterile but still pts come through with all kinds of stuff. Getting a room to yourself doesn't happen often so anxiety over what is the roommate in for creates anxiety because my immune system is overloaded and susceptible now.

So I do have some fear because so far it's always been bad news with a few days or more being admitted. With covid I'd seek the testing set ups around here and only go to the ER if I have a very high fever or can't breathe well.

 
Yeah, gloves don't even serve any rational purpose.  You can dip your bare hands directly into a bowl of coronavirus and nothing bad will happen assuming you wash them afterward.  It's a virus, not a toxic chemical.

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
Went to three places today and I think mask usage (in the Tampa area) is actually on the decline. Last week it seemed like 90% of the people in Target had a mask. Today it seemed like about 50% and even lower at the other two places. Of course this is anecdotal but it was a visible difference.
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Similar in the New Orleans suburbs ... at least in the places I’ve gone recently. Also anecdotal, of course.

 
My 75-year-old diabetic dad went to eat at the Olive Garden yesterday. Sat in a room with 6 other people. “I missed their salad. Got the spaghetti with 2 meatballs. Took half home”. 
 

I figure a zoom funeral would save on expenses at least. 

 
Atomic Punk said:
I just don’t get these arguments, as they are so location specific. If I lived in a large metro center where I cannot social distance then of course I’ll wear a mask. If I live where I live - a Canadian province the size of ND, SD and MN combined, with only 260 cases, most of which have already recovered and social distancing is the norm - why would I wear one. It isn’t mandatory nor is it even being recommended for common use. I have only left the house three times in the last 6 weeks and I would peg the mask wearers as less than 10% and I do not think anyone looks down at those wearing them or those not wearing them.

I don’t think talking down to those that may be living with completely different circumstances, does anything to add value.
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And yet...here we are

 
parasaurolophus said:
new genetic analysis of the virus that causes Covid-19 taken from more than 7,600 patients around the world shows it has been circulating in people since late last year, and must have spread extremely quickly after the first infection.

They also found genetic evidence that supports suspicions the virus was infecting people in Europe, the US and elsewhere weeks or even months before the first official cases were reported in January and February.
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Also from the article:

Balloux and colleagues pulled viral sequences from a giant global database that scientists around the world are using to share data. They looked at samples taken at different times and from different places, and said they indicate that the virus first started infecting people at the end of last year.

"This rules out any scenario that assumes SARSCoV-2 may have been in circulation long before it was identified, and hence have already infected large proportions of the population," Balloux's team wrote in their report, published in the journal Infection, Genetics and Evolution.

That is one piece of bad news. Some doctors had hoped the virus was circulating for many months and may have quietly infected many more people than has been reported. That would offer the hope that there might be some immunity already built up in some populations.

"Everyone was hoping for that. I was too," Balloux said.

Their findings pour cold water on such an idea. At the most, 10% of the global population has been exposed to the virus, Balloux estimated.

 
JAA said:
Who is afraid to go to the ER?  I’ve not heard or read one specific instance of this. 
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I would absolutely expect people to be fearful of going to the ER. They still may have to depending on the emergency. 

But I have no doubt if it's something 6 months ago they might be on the fence about whether something was serious enough for the ER, today they probably do not go. 

 
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