*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (16 Viewers)

[belljr]

welp - after our initial surge back in march/april - our area has been pretty low (minus a nursing home that "skews" our numbers town wise.

School started 6 days ago.

An individual has tested positive.....  Contact tracing is ongoing.  

sigh

persepective my town - 516 out of 41000

42 deaths - i think 30 were early on from a nursing home

my county 7163 out of 445000

 

[sho nuff]

Sounds like it's possibly being blown out of proportion.  Twitter thread

That from an investigative journalist locally.

 

[Doug B]

Sounds like it's possibly being blown out of proportion.  Twitter thread

That was my impression initially, too, though I didn't want to get sucked into a debate.

 

[bostonfred]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mass-parents-knew-kid-had-coronavirus-sent-him-1st-day-n1240295

This is in Attleboro MA.  Kid had tested positive and parents knew but still sent them to school. 

 

[bostonfred]

How many people died of cancer or regular flu or car crashes during the last few years? Those would be more comparable than any military engagement. 

That's a much better comparison I agree.

About 60,000 people die of colon cancer per year. People still allow a doctor to stick their finger up their ###, or spend a day prepping with a horrible drink that makes you #### your brains out for a doctor to knock them out and put a camera up their ### while they are unconscious. 

Under 40,000 people die in car accidents each year in the US. There are still seat belt laws and compulsory car insurance laws and laws against speeding and drunk driving. 

About 60,000 people died in the worst year of the flu in recent history. 

There were more covid deaths in the US in the six months from March to August than colon cancer, lung cancer and the flu kill in a full year combined. 

We routinely accept major inconveniences in the public health interest and we should do the same thing with Covid-19.

 

[perbach]

Over 2,000 positives reported today in Wisconsin...a new high.    The positive cases have been steadily increasing ever since we were directed to wear masks about 6 weeks ago.   

Weird.....

 

[belljr]

2 cases in our school as of now, going to remote tomorrow

 

[parasaurolophus]

Over 2,000 positives reported today in Wisconsin...a new high.    The positive cases have been steadily increasing ever since we were directed to wear masks about 6 weeks ago.   

Weird.....

August 10th there were over 400 hospitalizations. Today there are 347. We were below 300 last week. 

7 day case average was in a consistent down trend from mask mandate to just before labor day so your data is incorrect. (Went from 886 all the way down to 674 September 3rd)

Labor day and college parties coming home to roost right now. 

 

[culdeus]

Does feel like hit a bottom here and are pulling back up.  A little worrying that unlike last time deaths and cases seem to be decoupling in the wrong direction. 

 

[Dr_Zaius]

Does feel like hit a bottom here and are pulling back up.  A little worrying that unlike last time deaths and cases seem to be decoupling in the wrong direction. 

You have to be careful with the deaths as it's usually date reported vs. actual date of death, and it looks like a lot of the Southern states are behind and going through their backlogs from the summer peak.  Hospitalizations still seem to be trending down nicely, which may be the best thing to look at.  That said, I agree it does seem that some state's cases are creeping back up after several weeks of good progress.

 

[tjnc09]

I appreciate all of the people scared to go outside.  Cheap hotels, vacations, less traffic.  It's been wonderful.

 

[proteus126]

WHO warns of 'very serious situation' in Europe, with 'alarming rates' of virus transmission

Updated 11:05 AM ET, Thu September 17, 2020

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/17/europe/coronavirus-europe-who-second-wave-intl/index.html

The World Health Organization (WHO) has warned that coronavirus cases are surging alarmingly in Europe, as a "very serious situation" unfolds across the continent.

What's wrong with Spain, France, UK, Netherlands, Israel, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark?  It is like they have given up!  What is wrong with their societies to cause this?  They all had this in the spring, controlled it, but are not taking it seriously now.  2nd wave.  Why can't they be more like Sweden and Italy, who have kept control [or who might have some degree of herd immunity slowing the spread]?

[Ah, nice to get that out - got tired of hearing all the self-loathing in July when the US was blowing up]

 

[beer 30]

Over 2,000 positives reported today in Wisconsin...a new high.    The positive cases have been steadily increasing ever since we were directed to wear masks about 6 weeks ago.   

Weird.....

Yep, it's those damn masks, I can't believe we are still fallen for that tired story line. We all know masks don't make a difference and in most cases only exacerbate the issue! #sheeple

 

[parasaurolophus]

You have to be careful with the deaths as it's usually date reported vs. actual date of death, and it looks like a lot of the Southern states are behind and going through their backlogs from the summer peak.  Hospitalizations still seem to be trending down nicely, which may be the best thing to look at.  That said, I agree it does seem that some state's cases are creeping back up after several weeks of good progress.

This is the most frustrating thing about all the data reporting. 

If you had a death report come in confirming a covid death from May, that shouldnt be listed as a new death. Add it to the total. Add it to the bar graph on the day it happened. Do not call it a new death. 

Most of the data is a joke, but that one is especially bad.

 

[dawgtrails]

I appreciate all of the people scared to go outside.  Cheap hotels, vacations, less traffic.  It's been wonderful.

There are definitely people that have taken this to a ridiculous level, although some of them have compromised immune systems or have loved ones they care for who do. I sense a bit of sarcasm in your tone, and that is not very kind of you.

 

[BassNBrew]

What's wrong with Spain, France, UK, Netherlands, Israel, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark?  It is like they have given up!  What is wrong with their societies to cause this?  They all had this in the spring, controlled it, but are not taking it seriously now.  2nd wave.  Why can't they be more like Sweden and Italy, who have kept control [or who might have some degree of herd immunity slowing the spread]?

[Ah, nice to get that out - got tired of hearing all the self-loathing in July when the US was blowing up]

Turn on the Tour De France and it makes out beach situation look tame.  Maybe the Murica posters can comment further.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

This is the most frustrating thing about all the data reporting. 

If you had a death report come in confirming a covid death from May, that shouldnt be listed as a new death. Add it to the total. Add it to the bar graph on the day it happened. Do not call it a new death. 

Most of the data is a joke, but that one is especially bad.

It really is maddening.  For some of the states dudes on twitter seem to be the best place to get curves by actual date, which is crazy.  Also, guaranteed when a state finishes going through old deaths and dumps them all on one day, some idiot reporter will announce "OMG DEATHS ARE SPIKING11!!!1!"

 

[beer 30]

This is the most frustrating thing about all the data reporting. 

If you had a death report come in confirming a covid death from May, that shouldnt be listed as a new death. Add it to the total. Add it to the bar graph on the day it happened. Do not call it a new death. 

Most of the data is a joke, but that one is especially bad.

Yea any more I take the stats with a  grain of salt unfortunately.

 

[Rodrigo Duterte]

I appreciate all of the people scared to go outside.  Cheap hotels, vacations, less traffic.  It's been wonderful.

So cool!  Proud of ya, tiger.

 

[perbach]

I appreciate all of the people scared to go outside.  Cheap hotels, vacations, less traffic.  It's been wonderful.

It has been awesome.   Bars are not as packed as they used to be either.   The mask mandate has been a godsend for millions of us who enjoy getting out but hate crowds.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Turn on the Tour De France and it makes out beach situation look tame.  Maybe the Murica posters can comment further.

Roadside crowds with inconsistent mask usage,, like crowds everywhere, aren’t a great idea.

 

[Don Hutson]

Yep, it's those damn masks, I can't believe we are still fallen for that tired story line. We all know masks don't make a difference and in most cases only exacerbate the issue! #sheeple

Are you being sarcastic?  Obviously, masks help.  All of that moisture in your mask could be in the air.  Covid is in the air.  It's not 100% effective.  It's not 0% effective.  It's probably 20% effective.  A 20 percent decrease in Covid transmission will help tremendously in the goal of reducing the R number from 3 to 1.

 

[beer 30]

Are you being sarcastic?  Obviously, masks help.  All of that moisture in your mask could be in the air.  Covid is in the air.  It's not 100% effective.  It's not 0% effective.  It's probably 20% effective.  A 20 percent decrease in Covid transmission will help tremendously in the goal of reducing the R number from 3 to 1.

Yea...little bit

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Are you being sarcastic?  Obviously, masks help.  All of that moisture in your mask could be in the air.  Covid is in the air.  It's not 100% effective.  It's not 0% effective.  It's probably 20% effective.  A 20 percent decrease in Covid transmission will help tremendously in the goal of reducing the R number from 3 to 1.

One of the problems with the world today is you can't really tell what is satire anymore. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

Vitamin d has been talked about a lot in here. 

“If you are deficient in Vitamin-D, that does have an impact on your susceptibility to infection,” Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in an interview posted on Instagram last week. “So I would not mind recommending—and I do it myself—taking vitamin-D supplements.”

 

[Don Hutson]

The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine might be done for.  Two patients developed a rare spinal cord issue.

Human trials of Oxford vaccine on hold in the US over spinal-cord disease fears

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/20/human-trials-oxford-vaccine-hold-us-spinal-cord-disease-fears/

 

[culdeus]

How do you stop a trial of a vaccine you gave to a bunch of people and are waiting to see if it works?  

Isn't the correct phrasing to say we won't be taking this one to production?

 

[parasaurolophus]

Cdc changes guidance. 

Masks now listed above washing hands and disinfecting surfaces. Using air purifiers is now official guidance. 

Link

Web archive showing version from a couple days ago

 

[Jayrod]

There are definitely people that have taken this to a ridiculous level, although some of them have compromised immune systems or have loved ones they care for who do. I sense a bit of sarcasm in your tone, and that is not very kind of you.

My MILs sister (aunt-in-law?) has gone full blown cray-cray.

She lost her husband a year ago to cancer, doesn't have a job (and has more than enough $) and lives in Oregon.  She has lost her mind over COVID-19 and is self quarantining for "2 years".  On the rare occasions she has had to go out, she wears gloves, a mask and keeps a 13 ft minimum distance from all people.

This week her father died.  The only reason she even came to Missouri was because she had left Oregon due to the wildfires and had driven to Utah already.  She was in town at a hotel, but refused to come to the funeral.  She came to the burial and stood 25 feet from everyone.  Her sister had to do everything for the arrangements, but write the obit.  She wouldn't even visit with the dozens of relatives that came from hundreds of miles away and refused to help clear out the retirement home or help with setup and breakdown for the services.

Most of the family was super pissed with how selfish she has been.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

Seems to me, to help stop the spread of this thing, humans could use a touch more of this kind of selfish and a bit less of the anti-mask selfish.

 

[belljr]

I side with the "crazy" sister a little.  I've missed 2 funerals so far. Granted it wasn't my father

Told my sister in law she can't stay with us when she came from Florida for other SiL memorial.

 

[proteus126]

My MILs sister (aunt-in-law?) has gone full blown cray-cray.

She lost her husband a year ago to cancer, doesn't have a job (and has more than enough $) and lives in Oregon.  She has lost her mind over COVID-19 and is self quarantining for "2 years".  On the rare occasions she has had to go out, she wears gloves, a mask and keeps a 13 ft minimum distance from all people.

This week her father died.  The only reason she even came to Missouri was because she had left Oregon due to the wildfires and had driven to Utah already.  She was in town at a hotel, but refused to come to the funeral.  She came to the burial and stood 25 feet from everyone.  Her sister had to do everything for the arrangements, but write the obit.  She wouldn't even visit with the dozens of relatives that came from hundreds of miles away and refused to help clear out the retirement home or help with setup and breakdown for the services.

Most of the family was super pissed with how selfish she has been.

Some people are going to be as cray-cray as they can afford to be.  I've seen a number of financially secure older-middle-aged white women in my neighborhood go about as nuts as your Aunt in law.  So scared of dying they quit living, and wealthy enough that they can indulge and nurture their fears.  That kind of self-harm won't go away when the pandemic has faded.  Additionally, in many cases family and friends won't be there for them when they emerge.

Quite a contrast to the tradespeople who are out there every day wearing a mask and delivering stuff, working in stores, cooking food, working construction, fixing HVACs, etc.  Getting on with life.  Balancing precaution with need to be out and about.  Wearing a mask all day while working sucks, and I work indoors in the sciences, not outdoors.  My hat is off to anyone work has to work in a public-facing job right now.  Nice see their matter-of-fact attitudes of doing their jobs, with fear under control and yet with a healthy respect for the pandemic.

 

[beer 30]

Vitamin d has been talked about a lot in here. 

“If you are deficient in Vitamin-D, that does have an impact on your susceptibility to infection,” Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in an interview posted on Instagram last week. “So I would not mind recommending—and I do it myself—taking vitamin-D supplements.”

I mean I guess, if you believe that guy. *

* - this is purely satirical, I myself, take a vitamin D supplement and wholly support it. Please do  not act upon my above response, it is meant to bring levity and not professional opinion as I am an accountant.

 

[top dog]

Cdc changes guidance. 

Masks now listed above washing hands and disinfecting surfaces. Using air purifiers is now official guidance. 

Link

Web archive showing version from a couple days ago

AND... The CDC retracted that information. No wonder people don't believe the sources.

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-says-coronavirus-spreads-mainly-034950288.html

CDC removes statement on airborne virus transmission, saying it was posted in error

The Centers for Disease Control says it posted new guidance on airborne transmission in error and has removed the language.

“A draft version of proposed changes to these recommendations was posted in error to the agency’s official website. CDC is currently updating its recommendations regarding airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19). Once this process has been completed, the update language will be posted,” the CDC said.The new recommendations had stated that the coronavirus spreads most commonly in the air, through droplets or other tiny respiratory particles that apparently can remain

suspended and inhaled.

 

[parasaurolophus]

AND... The CDC retracted that information. No wonder people don't believe the sources.

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-says-coronavirus-spreads-mainly-034950288.html

Omg. So dumb. This is just like when it was reported that they were changing guidance on masks. They made sure to say that wasnt true.

And then changed guidance on masks. 

 

[Doug B]

Who's benefitting from all this CDC back-and-forth? I'm not sure how either side is getting a political advantage through these very recent guidance changes.

And, from top dog's recent link:

The new recommendations had stated that the coronavirus spreads most commonly in the air ... 

The CDC put this out in April. We covered it at length in this thread for weeks. Is the CDC's official position now that it's NOT spread most commonly through the air? Or what?

What's going on here? I know there's an ongoing political power struggle between a few agencies/individuals, and maybe we don't want to get into that in this thread. But what the heck?

 

[beer 30]

Omg. So dumb. This is just like when it was reported that they were changing guidance on masks. They made sure to say that wasnt true.

And then changed guidance on masks. 

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T BE COVID FREE!!!!!

Seriously, this is ridiculous. There was a time the world looked to the CDC & WHO for guidance during times like these. There is a level of incompetence there now I'm not used to seeing, or maybe I've just never paid that close attention? I know they do good work, not trying to come across as condemning but stuff like this just further erodes any trust in their releases to the common man.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

Bureaucracies can’t just release a document draft by accident and leave it posted, even if the information is absolutely correct. A number of cogs have to lay hands on the document and approve the text. Multiple people sign off on a lower level before the upper tier muckity mucks approve and sign. Then to post it there is a request made to the media branch. And that has its own chain of approvals. 
 

I work for a State agency and I have seen a press release held up over an internal dispute over one word.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Bureaucracies can’t just release a document draft by accident and leave it posted, even if the information is absolutely correct. A number of cogs have to lay hands on the document and approve the text. Multiple people sign off on a lower level before the upper tier muckity mucks approve and sign. Then to post it there is a request made to the media branch. And that has its own chain of approvals. 
 

I work for a State agency and I have seen a press release held up over an internal dispute over one word.

So make the page an error page temporarily then. Dont revert to known incorrect guidance. 

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

So make the page an error page temporarily then. Dont revert to known incorrect guidance. 

Imagine there is one clearly defined path toward resolving a situation. Now imagine that you can’t navigate that path due to a War and Peace sized document of policies, many of which contradict each other. 
 

Welcome to government.

 

[dgreen]

Bureaucracies can’t just release a document draft by accident and leave it posted, even if the information is absolutely correct. A number of cogs have to lay hands on the document and approve the text. Multiple people sign off on a lower level before the upper tier muckity mucks approve and sign. Then to post it there is a request made to the media branch. And that has its own chain of approvals. 
 

I work for a State agency and I have seen a press release held up over an internal dispute over one word.

I’m not following you here. My assumption is that it was up there because it did receive the necessary signatures through the agency’s approved process. Are you suggesting it was accidentally released before those things happened so it was removed and they will put it back up once the process is complete?

 

[top dog]

Who's benefitting from all this CDC back-and-forth? I'm not sure how either side is getting a political advantage through these very recent guidance changes.

And, from top dog's recent link:

The CDC put this out in April. We covered it at length in this thread for weeks. Is the CDC's official position now that it's NOT spread most commonly through the air? Or what?

What's going on here? I know there's an ongoing political power struggle between a few agencies/individuals, and maybe we don't want to get into that in this thread. But what the heck?

I think the debate really is "droplets" vs. "aerosols". To try and simplify this (and anyone feel free to correct me, I'm not in the medical fields):

CDC Established guidance -> Spread by larger droplets (ie. sneeze, cough), typically fall to floor/surface within about 6 ft. 

CDC Retracted guidance -> Spread by smaller aerosols which remain suspended longer than droplets, can travel over 6 ft.

 

[Doug B]

I think the debate really is "droplets" vs. "aerosols". To try and simplify this (and anyone feel free to correct me, I'm not in the medical fields):

CDC Established guidance -> Spread by larger droplets (ie. sneeze, cough), typically fall to floor/surface within about 6 ft. 

CDC Retracted guidance -> Spread by smaller aerosols which remain suspended longer than droplets, can travel over 6 ft.

There should be no debate -- both are already well-known to spread COVID-19 and have been for several months.

Exhaled aerosols collect in indoor spaces without sufficient space to disperse aerosols, without sufficient HVAC to help disperse aerosols, and with little to no air exchange with the outdoors (typically via HVAC).

Droplets are more a concern when around people you can tell are sick (obvious and frequent coughing, for example). Droplets can also come into play with shouting, singing, and (probably) eating in close proximity to others without sufficient ventilation.

 

[parasaurolophus]

There should be no debate -- both are already well-known to spread COVID-19 and have been for several months.

Exhaled aerosols collect in indoor spaces without sufficient space to disperse aerosols, without sufficient HVAC to help disperse aerosols, and with little to no air exchange with the outdoors (typically via HVAC).

Droplets are more a concern when around people you can tell are sick (obvious and frequent coughing, for example). Droplets can also come into play with shouting, singing, and (probably) eating in close proximity to others without sufficient ventilation.

They might be well known to me and you and others in here, but I don't think you realize how much of a debate this has been in the medical and scientific community. 

 

[Doug B]

They might be well known to me and you and others in here, but I don't think you realize how much of a debate this has been in the medical and scientific community. 

A real scientific debate, or a political debate about a scientific matter?

There are actually scientists studying this stuff who think exhaled aerosols are no danger whatsoever regarding COVID-19 transmission? Or else aren't much of a danger? If that's known to be true, then matuski has been right about masks all along.

 

[AndrewClark]

Good bud just tested positive. 

We spent the entire day together exactly 16 days ago in my home and in his car. 

I should be fine? 

Luckily enough, we had dinner plans (double date at that) this past weekend but I backed out. 

 

[Doug B]

Good bud just tested positive. 

We spent the entire day together exactly 16 days ago in my home and in his car. 

I should be fine? 

You could have it asymptomatically. In your shoes, unless local testing is difficult and slow (say, results come back in 2 weeks), I would get tested.

 

[AndrewClark]

You could have it asymptomatically. In your shoes, unless local testing is difficult and slow (say, results come back in 2 weeks), I would get tested.

OK will do. I'd be considered an at risk person so just trying to be careful. 

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

I’m not following you here. My assumption is that it was up there because it did receive the necessary signatures through the agency’s approved process. Are you suggesting it was accidentally released before those things happened so it was removed and they will put it back up once the process is complete?

With approved changes, yes, that is my expectation.

 

[Doug B]

@Cold Dead Hands , @parasaurolophus and all ... check out this ridiculousness (link to thread in Political Forum). Seems like a lot more afoot than "getting changes approved."
 

NIH official to 'retire' after being ID'd as author of anti-Fauci posts on right-wing blog (CNN, 9/21/2020)

A public affairs official at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases will "retire" after a news report identified him as the anonymous author of blog posts on a conservative website that disparaged Dr. Anthony Fauci and mocked the use of masks, a spokesperson for the health agency said Monday.

The Daily Beast reported Monday that William Crews, who worked in NIAID's communications branch, is a managing editor working under a pseudonym for the right-wing opinion website RedState who had mocked Fauci as a "mask Nazi" and described wearing face coverings as "a political statement."

"NIAID first learned of this matter this morning, and Mr. Crews has informed us of his intention to retire," a NIAID spokesperson told CNN. "We have no further comments on this as it is a personnel matter."

The NIAID spokesperson then referred CNN to policies at NIAID's parent agency, the National Institutes of Health, and federal ethics regulations about using government time and equipment for unauthorized purposes.

An NIH official familiar with the matter told CNN that the agency confirmed The Daily Beast's report that Crews was the person writing for RedState.

Phone calls and emails to Crews were not returned. CNN also sent an email to the RedState account identified by The Daily Beast as belonging to Crews, but did not receive an immediate response.

Jonathan Garthwaite, the vice president of RedState's parent company, Townhall Media, also did not respond to an email seeking comment.

The Daily Beast's Lachlan Markay, who broke the story for the news website, said he was able to identify Crews as the RedState editor through public records, social media postings and, internal NIH records.

"It illustrates the extent to which the response to the pandemic has become deeply politicized, even within the agencies at the front lines of fighting it," Markay wrote. "Crews isn't just a civil servant anonymously disagreeing with his bosses online; he's actively undermining their work and even suggesting retribution against them."