I disagree that it is as pat as all that. Brain chemistry, pleasure centers, serotonin sensitivity, endorphin synthesis, etc. ... the path to a healthy lifestyle is not equally physiologically available to everyone. And that's before we even get into sociological influences upon health.How so? If he chooses to be unhealthy but stays at home or wears a mask, then his bad health choices are much less likely to affect others (cause him to catch Covid, get seriously sick, and take up a hospital bed).
Really no common ground here. No personal issues with you guys, just don't accept your worldview on this particular topic.explain how they don't belongYeah, but you're throwing three things into a hat together that don't really belong. Different life perspectives, I guess.
Don't get me started about how we put a celebrity like Lizzo on a pedestal and actually teach her young fans how it's great to love your body whatever shape it is...I gave up being nice about physical fitness years ago. Being nice about it is generally not effective. It's an enabler.
#### or get off the pot.
So stay the #### home then.I disagree that it is as pat as all that. Brain chemistry, pleasure centers, serotonin sensitivity, endorphin synthesis, etc. ... the path to a healthy lifestyle is not equally physiologically available to everyone. And that's before we even get into sociological influences upon health.
The information in this particular article is thought-provoking (and local!) -- thanks for the link. Actually drill down a bit into the biological mechanisms and doesn't proselytize.Substantially changing your own unique probabilities though - from everything I've gathered this is not debatable.
Also not an option for everyone. Your life is not their life. My life is not their life. Can't throw covering rules for all people over all kinds of broad realities.So stay the #### home then.I disagree that it is as pat as all that. Brain chemistry, pleasure centers, serotonin sensitivity, endorphin synthesis, etc. ... the path to a healthy lifestyle is not equally physiologically available to everyone. And that's before we even get into sociological influences upon health.
I'm not angry at you. And for different reasons, I'm not angry at a fool who has contributed to us being where we are right now. I know you, and others, in here mean well. They don't. So why the lack of reaction? Anger isn't a healthy way to live life. So I don't. Accept that we are a nation of fat, selfish, and stupid. Remove those people from your social circles. Positively influence those that remain. Then decision make accordingly.I will just say that IMO people's anger is very misplaced if they are more pissed at people with co-morbidities or people showing care and empathy towards those people vs. Joe American who can't be bothered to take precautions or stop throwing parties.
Yes, it is part of the equation. 6mo ago people were saying that the US could be hit harder than some because of our collective health. I think it would be ignorant to suggest that if we step back and look at the world as a whole that we are seeing infections and deaths by multiple factors more solely because of our health. It is how we responding to the virus, or more accurately how we collectively couldn't be bothered to take decent measures for a few weeks.
In many parts of the country, we did take decent measures for a few weeks. In other parts, we didn't. The virus has returned in both types of places, both in the U.S. and internationally. I don't think even with a Wuhan-style lockdown it would have made a difference over a few weeks.I will just say that IMO people's anger is very misplaced if they are more pissed at people with co-morbidities or people showing care and empathy towards those people vs. Joe American who can't be bothered to take precautions or stop throwing parties.
Yes, it is part of the equation. 6mo ago people were saying that the US could be hit harder than some because of our collective health. I think it would be ignorant to suggest that if we step back and look at the world as a whole that we are seeing infections and deaths by multiple factors more solely because of our health. It is how we responding to the virus, or more accurately how we collectively couldn't be bothered to take decent measures for a few weeks.
Yes, but they actually did things right early on once they realized what "right" was and got it significantly under control. They were then able to open up significantly for the last few months. Surely you've seen the curve where we shot back up and their's stayed incredibly low.Europe thought they had the virus contained and now it is exploding just like in the US or worse. Unless we follow what China is doing I don't see how this can be stopped without lockdowns that are enforced and that will not happen.
Meh, put the cheese steak down and go run a mile (not you specifically Doug).I disagree that it is as pat as all that. Brain chemistry, pleasure centers, serotonin sensitivity, endorphin synthesis, etc. ... the path to a healthy lifestyle is not equally physiologically available to everyone. And that's before we even get into sociological influences upon health.
Says a Brown's fan, you know anger all too well my friendAnger isn't a healthy way to live life.
It wouldn't have been enough by itself, you're right. You'd also have to have no HIPAA, all cell-phone carriers forced to have a location-tracking app, and insane (for the U.S.) levels of contract tracing. Would also have to remove COVID patients from private residences, sometimes forcibly. National Guardsmen vetting drivers in the streets, telling people -- "Nope -- you went to the grocery three days ago. Go home, or go to the slammer!"I don't think even with a Wuhan-style lockdown it would have made a difference over a few weeks.
I 100% agree with this. The first few months of this pandemic I sat around and ate a lot and felt sorry for myself a bit. Then at some point I took the bull by the horns, stopped reading so much about it and decided that getting in shape was the best way I could help myself. So I'm at a weight I've only been at once in 20 years and hoping to get down to a level I haven't been to since I was 21. A worldwide push for better health would be a wonderful thing. It wouldn't mean we shouldn't wear masks. Just because I've lost a bunch of weight doesn't mean I now have the right to go out and infect others or that I can live a risky life-style, but I've significantly lowered my risk for when/if I get this thing.Yea and I think this is what Grue is trying to point out. Regardless of your stance on the virus, the vast majority of our populace is fat and out of shape, both huge comorbidities that effect how your body handles this virus. We have to make a case for promoting healthier lifestyles to combat this in conjunction with the other protocols we've seen that have an impact (masks, hand washing, distancing).
I'm encouraged by the amount of people I see out and about now as opposed to the 'before time' but it's still a small minority as opposed to the entire population. We've gotten better at treatment, why are we not promoting a healthier lifestyle as hard as we are other methods? Afraid of offending people? Screw PC when it comes to this. And for the record, I'm considered moderately obese according to my ####### scale every got damn morning I get on it so I'm not tossing rocks.
Nope, I agree with that 100% and congratulations on getting after it! That's awesome! I know a lot of folks have taken their personal health seriously during this time and it's great to see. I feel about exercise the same way I do about voting, I don't care how it gets done or who you vote for, just do it. The benefits far outweigh any drawbacks IMO.I 100% agree with this. The first few months of this pandemic I sat around and ate a lot and felt sorry for myself a bit. Then at some point I took the bull by the horns, stopped reading so much about it and decided that getting in shape was the best way I could help myself. So I'm at a weight I've only been at once in 20 years and hoping to get down to a level I haven't been to since I was 21. A worldwide push for better health would be a wonderful thing. It wouldn't mean we shouldn't wear masks. Just because I've lost a bunch of weight doesn't mean I now have the right to go out and infect others or that I can live a risky life-style, but I've significantly lowered my risk for when/if I get this thing.
Bad assumption. The risk is way higher than flu for older people, including those who are otherwise healthy. Immunologic function wanes as you age, independent of cardiovascular fitness. And even if they do everything “right”, most elderly people have at least one high risk comorbidity - genetics and behavior play a role in just about every disease.You're right, it absolutely does not keep you from getting infected. But while I have absolutely no statistical data to back this up, I would guess that the odds are extremely low that it's much worse than a bad case of the flu for a person under 70 who's otherwise physically fit. Not zero obviously, but extremely low.
And I didn't mean that they brought the virus on themselves, but rather the severity of its effects. It doesn't take Nostradamus to know that you're better positioned to fight off ANY illness (foreseen or otherwise) if you take care of yourself.
While good choices are certainly important, the abundance of cheap, hypercaloric, nutrient poor processed foods makes meal decisions problematic for those with limited time and financial resources. I’m not letting unhealthy people off the hook, but coupled with inadequate education, it’s easy to understand, and maybe empathize a little with those who end up on the wrong path.No one in the right mind will argue that there is any magic bullet to this thing. Substantially changing your own unique probabilities though - from everything I've gathered this is not debatable. And this isn't unique to covid - it's relevant for any illness. The problem is the vast majority of the people in this country are not healthy. Most by their own poor decision making.
What constitutes a “large margin”? The mortality rate for the US is roughly 50X that of Japan...yet they seem to be taking it more seriously.Cut the fatality rate here by a large margin and you think that it would be handled the same?
No way.
What constitutes a “large margin”? The mortality rate for the US is roughly 50X that of Japan...yet they seem to be taking it more seriously.
It's about priorities. Limited time is just code for saying I'm not making my health a priority. There is a reason I said most though. Unfortunately not everyone has access to good, cheap, healthy food. I dont sympathize for those who say they lack time, but I do with those who have financial/accessibility constraints.While good choices are certainly important, the abundance of cheap, hypercaloric, nutrient poor processed foods makes meal decisions problematic for those with limited time and financial resources. I’m not letting unhealthy people off the hook, but coupled with inadequate education, it’s easy to understand, and maybe empathize a little with those who end up on the wrong path.
Super insightful, but to be expected, I guess.Its almost like the US is a different country.
I get what you are saying, and I try my best. I am not walking around like Otis triggered 24/7.I'm not angry at you. And for different reasons, I'm not angry at a fool who has contributed to us being where we are right now. I know you, and others, in here mean well. They don't. So why the lack of reaction? Anger isn't a healthy way to live life. So I don't. Accept that we are a nation of fat, selfish, and stupid. Remove those people from your social circles. Positively influence those that remain. Then decision make accordingly.
You, specifically, can do the right things. But in the grand scheme of things it does not matter. Not in our society today with this particular virus anyway.
Yes, this is a great point. While I wish this was talked about more in general, this is also about protecting yourself more, not really what we are talking about. Being healthy is not going help you not spread this virus to other people any less. It is a factor in why our death rate is higher I am sure, but it's not as though we aren't seeing this spread throughout football team, baseball teams, etc.. Dudes that are 100x more in shape than I am.I 100% agree with this. The first few months of this pandemic I sat around and ate a lot and felt sorry for myself a bit. Then at some point I took the bull by the horns, stopped reading so much about it and decided that getting in shape was the best way I could help myself. So I'm at a weight I've only been at once in 20 years and hoping to get down to a level I haven't been to since I was 21. A worldwide push for better health would be a wonderful thing. It wouldn't mean we shouldn't wear masks. Just because I've lost a bunch of weight doesn't mean I now have the right to go out and infect others or that I can live a risky life-style, but I've significantly lowered my risk for when/if I get this thing.
Its almost like the US is a different country.
This is great to see, nice work turning a negative situation to a positive for you.I 100% agree with this. The first few months of this pandemic I sat around and ate a lot and felt sorry for myself a bit. Then at some point I took the bull by the horns, stopped reading so much about it and decided that getting in shape was the best way I could help myself. So I'm at a weight I've only been at once in 20 years and hoping to get down to a level I haven't been to since I was 21. A worldwide push for better health would be a wonderful thing. It wouldn't mean we shouldn't wear masks. Just because I've lost a bunch of weight doesn't mean I now have the right to go out and infect others or that I can live a risky life-style, but I've significantly lowered my risk for when/if I get this thing.
We have kids aged 10, 8, and 4. I get it. These 7+ months have been hard and there is no end in sight. But...adapt or die. Rather than negatively expend your energy on why this sucks (it does) be creative finding positive outlets, especially ones that engage your child.I get what you are saying, and I try my best. I am not walking around like Otis triggered 24/7.
That said, I will be honest and admit my faults - I get pissed when I see people come into the store without a mask giving 0 ####s, and chances are those people are not caring about our safe distance guidelines. This has nothing to do with my social circle - that is basically nothing. Like I said above, I think it's a mentality of not caring about people around you and after 6months and WI climbing yet again, I am done. Combine that with having to deal with my 5 year old who is miserable all day because he hates online school - to the point where she cries near daily. So yeah - my anger is not a lifestyle, but it is increasing month after month and it's directed not at the people who for whatever reason I can't be certain of have comorbidities, it's directed at the people who can't be bothered to act in a way that helps keep this at bay and will help us all get back to our lives quicker. Like somebody pointed out in the PSF - these are also the same people who seem to whine the most that stuff isn't open.
We will just have to agree to disagree. I would be on board with this if I truly believed we did the best we could or we are doing the best we can currently. I am currently not willing to let my emotions go as we are staring at doing this for 1 year or more and people are just shrugging their shoulders about it. It didn't have to be this way.We have kids aged 10, 8, and 4. I get it. These 7+ months have been hard and there is no end in sight. But...adapt or die. Rather than negatively expend your energy on why this sucks (it does) be creative finding positive outlets, especially ones that engage your child.
Control what you can control.. We have no control over the dumb. They are dumb no matter if you expend all of or zero energy on them. We can only control ourselves and influence those around us.
You're welcome.Super insightful, but to be expected, I guess.
Great questions. Would love to hear answers from any true experts. Have texted my BIL, whose best friend is an expert in infectious disease. Will gladly share his reply when I receive it. Interested in any other perspectives.I haven’t kept up on this thread, so apologies if this was already posted. Fauci today outlines that the first vaccines will not prevent people from catching the virus. They will help prevent the symptoms that people get and make it easier to treat them. The vaccine won’t kill the virus. LINK
My question to the doctors in the house is whether that would require the same two weeks of quarantine if someone vaccinated caught it and could they still spread it? Along those lines, would others that were vaccinated be just as likely to still catch it as now? At that point it sounds like the hope is to limit the severity of symptoms when people get it. And if the vaccine doesn’t have the desired effect on some people then they will be in the same situation as now
Best wishes man. My cousin (basically brother) and his wife and 2 kids all got tested last week. Both of them are teachers. They were at a birthday gathering where someone tested positive.Kid has a runny nose and is sneezing. No fever. About to enter the world of testing. School won't let her go.
What science would that be?Once a vaccine comes out it will be ugly. The anti-vaxxers in this case may have the science behind them but pressure will be to take the shot. I personally will probably wait a year to see how others are faring and m preparing for the onslaught.
Maybe more of an accumulation of evidence (and lack of science) that producing a safe and effective vaccine in 9 months isn't likely based on past experience. When remediesivir gets approved and the science isn't behind it I'm not holding out hope that a vaccine will be better.What science would that be?
A rushed vaccine that isn't truly a vaccine according toWhat science would that be?Once a vaccine comes out it will be ugly. The anti-vaxxers in this case may have the science behind them but pressure will be to take the shot. I personally will probably wait a year to see how others are faring and m preparing for the onslaught.
I haven’t kept up on this thread, so apologies if this was already posted. Fauci today outlines that the first vaccines will not prevent people from catching the virus. They will help prevent the symptoms that people get and make it easier to treat them. The vaccine won’t kill the virus. LINK
My question to the doctors in the house is whether that would require the same two weeks of quarantine if someone vaccinated caught it and could they still spread it? Along those lines, would others that were vaccinated be just as likely to still catch it as now? At that point it sounds like the hope is to limit the severity of symptoms when people get it. And if the vaccine doesn’t have the desired effect on some people then they will be in the same situation as now
Wasn't the most fun experience, saying I get results back likely end of tomorrow which is fine. Opted against the rapid test as the school doesn't accept that anyways.Kid has a runny nose and is sneezing. No fever. About to enter the world of testing. School won't let her go.
Not to knock personal responsibility at all but we have so much public policy that directly leads to widespread negative outcomes. We subsidize wheat, sugar and red meat. It's cheaper to buy a Mcdouble than a decent size tomato. Personal responsibility yes but lets clear the way with decent public policy.shader said:I 100% agree with this. The first few months of this pandemic I sat around and ate a lot and felt sorry for myself a bit. Then at some point I took the bull by the horns, stopped reading so much about it and decided that getting in shape was the best way I could help myself. So I'm at a weight I've only been at once in 20 years and hoping to get down to a level I haven't been to since I was 21. A worldwide push for better health would be a wonderful thing. It wouldn't mean we shouldn't wear masks. Just because I've lost a bunch of weight doesn't mean I now have the right to go out and infect others or that I can live a risky life-style, but I've significantly lowered my risk for when/if I get this thing.
I am so torn. With all this going on, and us seemingly getting an email a week about a positive case at the school district we are in (despite there being no live school), we just got an email from our son's basketball coach that the board voted to have a winter season and they are going to start that up with some COVID protocols in place.1385 hospigalizations in WI now. 5200 new cases. 65 deaths. All records.
Positive thoughts your way - how old is your kid? How did she handle the test?culdeus said:Kid has a runny nose and is sneezing. No fever. About to enter the world of testing. School won't let her go.
They said it was like a wierd tickle. Got both of them done so they can both go back.Positive thoughts your way - how old is your kid? How did she handle the test?