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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (20 Viewers)

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The Z Machine said:
Sad, but likely true. 
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Over the next 6 months most people are going to come in contact with someone who is positive on at least a monthly basis.   How many times can you quarantine and expect to keep your job? How many times can your kid quarantine and still function in school well enough to pass their grade?  How many times can you quarantine before you blow your own head off?

Going out on a limb, but I am guessing the vast majority of people at this point are prepared for the fallout of whatever happens with this virus in exchange for living an actual life with as little detriment to their careers and their kids development as possible.

Right or wrong that's where it looks like we are at.  Honestly, I cant blame people for feeling that way.   Everything about how Covid has been handled since day 1 has been botched by every level of the government, CDC, and every other person of any kind of authority imaginable.  

Many of us in this thread want to see this handled better, want to see the public be more responsible and act right, and want good outcomes.  It isnt happening.  It isnt going to happen.

I truly believe we are at the point where any and all plans moving forward should be made with the understanding that the public is not going to follow any of these guidelines.  

We can piss and moan about it but at some point accepting reality is more productive.

 
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Biff84 said:
This i just don’t get. Events, sure, but bars and restaurants you know what you’re getting yourself into. You’re not going to be masked the entire time you’re eating or drinking. It’s a risk and you can choose if you want to take it. Having everyone vaccinated will only make a minimal difference.
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It gets even better. Employees are not required to be vaccinated. Two years into this mess and we still come up with nonsensical rules.

 
There's a discussion going on in the Political Forum's COVID thread that I'd like to pick up over here and get some feedback. This is as good a jumping off point as any, and I will quote the relevant posts below to set the stage:

Terminalxylem said:
What specifically has changed about your attitude/behavior in the age of omicron?

fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I think the ease with which omicron spreads makes the “stay vigilant so I don’t infect anyone else” argument a lot less powerful.  For most of the pandemic very few of my relatives or friends in my social circle ever got Covid. So I really felt a responsibility to take serious precautions not to spread it to them.  But now I know lots of people in my social circles that have gotten it.  I’m not convinced that I can make any difference in the amount of spread of the virus anymore.  It doesn’t really matter if I spread Covid to somebody that was just going to get it anyway.

That’s also some of what I meant about having a greater understanding of some other people’s perspectives from earlier in the pandemic.  Some folks here live in social circles where basically everybody they know has gotten Covid at least once.  It’s hard to convince someone to take precautions to stop the spread to people that are just going to get it anyway from somewhere else.

Terminalxylem said:
I think you’re underestimating your ability to mitigate the risk of getting infected. I’m not advocating avoiding all human contact, but it may be reasonable at least to wear a surgical mask in public, and avoid large gatherings/crowded areas until the surge eases off. This is especially true in places where healthcare infrastructure is overwhelmed - IIRC, you live in DC, correct? From what I gather, hospitals are struggling there atm.

But I understand different perspectives exist, particularly when everyone you know has already been infected. I can assure you this isn’t the case everywhere, however. As an example, I have only one close friend who has been infected, and a handful of acquaintances and coworkers, out of 100+ people with whom I come in contact. Considering most of them are healthcare workers, they have a much higher exposure risk than average.  So clearly, infection is not a foregone conclusion.
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I think the ease with which omicron spreads makes the “stay vigilant so I don’t infect anyone else” argument a lot less powerful.  For most of the pandemic very few of my relatives or friends in my social circle ever got Covid. So I really felt a responsibility to take serious precautions not to spread it to them.  But now I know lots of people in my social circles that have gotten it.  I’m not convinced that I can make any difference in the amount of spread of the virus anymore.  It doesn’t really matter if I spread Covid to somebody that was just going to get it anyway.

Doug B said:
I'm bolding the part that most hits home for my immediate sphere -- the three most careful families we know of (to include ourselves) have or still are going through COVID waves in their homes.

To be sure, we all let our guard down in some ways around Christmas and New Years. Two of the families -- my own and my sister-in-law's got together with two other careful-ish family households on Christmas Day. The next week, my son spent three days & nights with some super-careful family friends (wrote about them in the FFA thread, comorbidities out the yin-yang). The super-careful family and my son went to see the new Spiderman film IN the theater on 12/30. My careful sister- and brother-in-law did the same thing on the same day (I believe different theaters, though).

Also the week after Christmas: my family had to scrap an outdoor-dining date with vaxxed out-of-town friends, so at the last minute my family of four ended up eating indoors (large room to ourselves) with the friends. Two days later, my wife and I (sans kids) ate outdoors with those same out-of-town friends, my super-careful SIL + BIL, and another couple we rarely see (I'd say they're careful-ish).

So ... I guess some careful people were being less careful than they could have conceivably been. I don't know -- joining fully-vaxxed (and mostly boosted) households for Christmas didn't seem capital R "risky". Going to see a movie in person in a 1/4 capacity theater also didn't seem capital R "risky".

Connecting all the dots now that a bunch of folks have been PCR-tested and gotten results ... everyone that ended up testing positive went to see Spiderman in a theater on 12/30. Several others (including my wife and I) had symptoms but tested negative on a PCR :shrug:

At this point, I don't know what to think. It will be a long time before I can comfortably enter retail space or a grocery store without a mask. But I no longer think that's strictly a coldly logical position -- there's definitely some inertia and "can't hurt" mentality lingering on my part.

Weirdly, if I were to know definitely that someone caught COVID from me and then suffered a severe outcome ... I'd feel guilt if I were around them indoors + unmasked, but feel absolved if I were with them outdoors and/or masked. Not logical, but there you go.
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My experience has been vaguely similar. Until very recently, I knew a grand total of five people who had covid.  Namely:

1) A lady in another office who I work with a lot on one dimension of my job.  No idea how she got it or how sick she was, except I know she was never hospitalized or anything.

2) My sister and her boyfriend.  They got tired of the pandemic and just started going out to bars and nightclubs again last fall (fall 2020).  I didn't find out about this until months later.  Both were pretty sick but nothing too bad.

3) My secretary and her husband.  They both got it the week before they were eligible for vaccination, which kind of shook up everybody in the office.  She was very sick but recovered at home.  He need antibodies but was okay after a short hospital stay.  Both were high-risk because of BMI considerations.

That's it.  I'm sure there are people who I vaguely know from church or something who got covid and I just never knew about it, but you get the idea.

Since this Thanksgiving, I've lost track of all the people who have either tested positive or gotten sick and were presumptively positive.  It's literally an every-day thing to find out who in my unit is out of commission for the next few days.  It's extremely annoying, but every single one of these people (presumably) is vaccinated and they've all been just fine which is reason to be thankful.  If the OG strain had been this contagious the pandemic would have been a total ####show.  

 
We've been cautious overall thru the pandemic and I'd really like to get through the next ~4 weeks or so (the O wave is starting to receed in our area already) with no one in my house getting it.  I figure by March it's harder to get again and the pills will be more available if you get unlucky.  By putting it off this long we've made our range of outcomes look miles better than they would have been in Spring of 2020 and putting it off one or two more months makes material improvements to that.

But...

We visited my family for Xmas with my brother going out nightly (he got it less than a week after we left), my sister's entire fam (super careful) got it right before Xmas, and my kid's (fully masked) school reported 13 cases in the first week back from 3 weeks off.  So I'm resigned to us not making it another month.  I figure almost everyone in the school will get it next week and unless we get really lucky so will my household.  It makes taking a hard line on other stuff impossible when you know that it's likely to happen anyhow.  We did what we could.  It was a run.

 
The Covid surge in south Florida and the entire state seem to have peaked. This is based on hospitalizations  from Jackson Health System's daily twitter update and the Florida Hospital Association's website.

At Jackson, it's been consistent for a while. About 50% are being diagnosed with Covid after being admitted for other care, such as surgery. About 20% are vaxxed, half of those are immunocompromised transplant patients. The unvaxxed are taxing the ICUs for treating COVID symptoms. 

https://twitter.com/JacksonHealth/status/1482351345441116161?s=20

https://www.fha.org/covid-19.html

https://twitter.com/david_delaz/status/1478784185225596931?t=fX8NtGGZ1pUPk7UNAUmr-g&s=19

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
We've been cautious overall thru the pandemic and I'd really like to get through the next ~4 weeks or so (the O wave is starting to receed in our area already) with no one in my house getting it.  I figure by March it's harder to get again and the pills will be more available if you get unlucky.  By putting it off this long we've made our range of outcomes look miles better than they would have been in Spring of 2020 and putting it off one or two more months makes material improvements to that.

But...

We visited my family for Xmas with my brother going out nightly (he got it less than a week after we left), my sister's entire fam (super careful) got it right before Xmas, and my kid's (fully masked) school reported 13 cases in the first week back from 3 weeks off.  So I'm resigned to us not making it another month.  I figure almost everyone in the school will get it next week and unless we get really lucky so will my household.  It makes taking a hard line on other stuff impossible when you know that it's likely to happen anyhow.  We did what we could.  It was a run.
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I have essentially the same thinking as your first paragraph.  The only real vector for my family to get infected right now is via school.  We kept the kids home the first week back from break, and have sent them with KN95 masks (which may or may not work great for kids, but are better than cloth).  My wife takes the kids and has to enter the building and crowded hallways for drop off, but other than that we aren't interacting with people indoors.

Are we all going to get exposed and/or infected at some point?  Yes.  This will be here forever, like the other circulating coronaviruses.  But I am not volunteering to get it this wave.  The more vaccine induced immunity and memory my body has, the better.  So when I get it, it really is just a cold.  Jab me again - who cares.

 
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I've just been using a simple metric since vaccinated. If reported cases are above 100 per 100k in a county I'm in, I will not do indoor activities where people are expected to be maskless (bars and restaurants mainly) unless it is with people I know are vaccinated.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I have essentially the same thinking as your first paragraph.  The only real vector for my family to get infected right now is via school.  We kept the kids home the first week back from break, and have sent them with KN95 masks (which may or may not work great for kids, but are better than cloth).  My wife takes the kids and has to enter the building and crowded hallways for drop off, but other than that we aren't interacting with people indoors.

Are we all going to get exposed and/or infected at some point?  Yes.  This will be here forever, like the other circulating coronaviruses.  But I am not volunteering to get it this wave.  The more vaccine induced immunity and memory my body has, the better.  So when I get it, it really is just a cold.  Jab me again - who cares.
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This is where i am at as well.  We have been pretty cautious and really the only vector for us is school at this point.  Prior to omicron i was traveling pretty heavy for work, but i was taking all the right precautions(strong well sealed N95 mask worn everywhere and often the only masked person in meetings, etc.)  But now ive put travel on hold.  Ill likely get back out there in March or when Hospitalizations settle down.  I know we will get it.  But being immunocompromised i would prefer not to get it when it will be challenging to get the right treatment if i end up hospitalized.  So for now, we are hunkered down and im hoping the other families in our kids class are being responsible. 

 
We were hoping to go see my mom in early Feb for her birthday, or have her come down here (NJ). But it’s not going to happen while everything is still this contagious.

 
Fully 50% of my sister's school is out with positive or a household positive.  They will come back from MLK on Wednesday rather than Tuesday and have dramatically shortened the stay at home periods for anyone.  So more or less anyone that was declared positive prior to Friday can come back Wednesday with no fever.  No test requirement, and they are discouraging people getting tests without symptoms.

It's amazing how people have done a 180.  Going to watch the Cowboys game tomorrow with someone that tested + yesterday.  And others are coming that haven't had a + test themselves yet, but just don't care.  It's chicken pox parties of my youth.  Out and about zero masks anywhere.  

 
culdeus said:
It's amazing how people have done a 180.  Going to watch the Cowboys game tomorrow with someone that tested + yesterday.  And others are coming that haven't had a + test themselves yet, but just don't care.  It's chicken pox parties of my youth.  Out and about zero masks anywhere
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That all seems like a recipe to overwhelm a health care system. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I definitely would not do this.  (Not telling you what to do, just that this particular part is well past my own personal risk threshold.)
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I wouldn't either, but he did just get over Covid, so he's probably as safe as anyone for the immediate future. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I definitely would not do this.  (Not telling you what to do, just that this particular part is well past my own personal risk threshold.)
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I had it over new years and have been - since 1/8 or so.  Short of something really odd, I don't think you can get reinfected with like delta or something if that turns out to be his flavor or vice versa.

 
culdeus said:
I had it over new years and have been - since 1/8 or so.  Short of something really odd, I don't think you can get reinfected with like delta or something if that turns out to be his flavor or vice versa.
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Who cares about the poor slob sitting in the next seat over.  Or behind him at the concession.  
 

Cool!

 
The Z Machine said:
Doug B said:
Culdeus can explain for sure ... but I took it that he was attending a TV-watching hangout at a friend's place, not going to JerryWorld.
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I read it as going to the stadium. 
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I was basing it off of the phrasing he used:

"Going to watch the Cowboys game tomorrow with someone that tested + yesterday."

versus

"Going to the Cowboys game tomorrow with someone that tested + yesterday."

...

For me, personally: if I'm telling someone I'm attending a football game in the stadium, the natural way for me to describe the activity is "I'm going to the game". If instead I were dropping by a friend's house to watch the same game on TV, I'd naturally say "I'm going to watch the game at Joe's house".

 

 
I’m somehow still avoiding this wave despite my fears of work and school coming true all at once. Earlier this week we got a notification of a non-close contact for put Pre-K daughter. On Thursday her teacher was out sick with COVID and apparently several of her classmates are sick. Friday morning my wife texts me that she’s showing definite symptoms and my wife is having mild symptoms as well.

At the exact same time I get a text from the other pharmacist saying he’s positive with pretty rough symptoms. He worked Mon-Wed with all the rest of the employees both only briefly with me. So if we were still doing ‘close contacts’, the pharmacy would have been shutdown for several days.

About 5 minutes after those texts I find out the nurse that regularly helps us with shots had also called out, I’m sure with COVID because they cancelled her shifts for a week. She was the main immunizer on Wednesday and my staff pharmacist was on Tuesday. So those two days everyone that received a vaccine may have been exposed. One person from Tuesday called and said he was having long lasting vaccine side effects but was describing all the typical COVID symptoms. Today the nurse they found as a replacement had a horrible raspy voice and sounded like death. She even seemed to have labored breathing. I’d be shocked if she wasn’t positive.

I have felt all the minor symptoms but tough to tell if it’s just in my head or just regular weakness, congestion, etc. Last night my symptomatic daughter and myself tested negative on home tests. Her symptoms have got worse but nothing serious. Wife has said she’s got some symptoms. My other daughter and the rest of the pharmacy team is still good. Went to do a rapid PCR test after work to make sure I should still be working. Got to the front and they tell me that they ran out but could reschedule at a different location tomorrow. Went with a rapid antigen test and was negative again. Really just a waste of my time and money.

I’m still assuming that my daughter is positive. It’s possible she’s sick with something else but with all the cases around her, I doubt it.

 
WHO approves two new treatments for COVID-19: All you need to know about Baricitinib and Sotrovimab

 (WHO) has approved two new, growing the arsenal of tools along with vaccines to stave off severe illness and death from the virus.

 

Baricitinib is a drug commonly used to treat rheumatoid arthritis.

Baricitinib is a type of drug known as an Janus kinase (JAK) inhibitor and was shown to have similar effects as other arthritis drugs called interleukin-6 (IL-6) inhibitors, or monoclonal antibodies.
When used in combination with corticosteroids, baricitinib was shown to be more effective than IL-6 inhibitors.

The WHO guidelines noted that evidence shows baricitinib improves survival rate and reduces the need for ventilation, with no observed increase in adverse effects.

 

The WHO also stated that GlaxoSmithKline and Vir Biotechnology, Inc's designed Sotrovimab can be used on people with non-serious COVID-19 at highest risk of hospitalisation, such as the elderly, people with immune-deficiencies or chronic diseases such as diabetes.

Sotrovimab is a monoclonal antibody drug that appears to be effective against the highly transmissible Omicron variant. It is a single monoclonal antibody that works by binding to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, thereby preventing the virus from attaching to and entering human cellshttps://www.firstpost.com/health/who-approves-two-new-treatments-for-covid-19-all-you-need-to-know-about-baricitinib-and-sotrovimab-10284471.html

 
Has anyone traveled to UK recently?  I'm not sure how their 0-2 day test works.  We are fully vaccinated, so per their new guidance we don't have to quarantine and a lateral flow test can be taken.  Whatever that means.

 
culdeus said:
Fully 50% of my sister's school is out with positive or a household positive.  They will come back from MLK on Wednesday rather than Tuesday and have dramatically shortened the stay at home periods for anyone.  So more or less anyone that was declared positive prior to Friday can come back Wednesday with no fever.  No test requirement, and they are discouraging people getting tests without symptoms.

It's amazing how people have done a 180.  Going to watch the Cowboys game tomorrow with someone that tested + yesterday.  And others are coming that haven't had a + test themselves yet, but just don't care.  It's chicken pox parties of my youth.  Out and about zero masks anywhere.  
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We ready to call this one over and done yet? You’re about due for another proclamation. 

 
culdeus said:
I had it over new years and have been - since 1/8 or so.  Short of something really odd, I don't think you can get reinfected with like delta or something if that turns out to be his flavor or vice versa.
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yeah, you can.  Not sure if I posted the story of my extended family in this thread or not.  Long story short....they all had covid several months ago (august or sept?  time is one big blur for me these days)....wife's aunt in the hospital etc.  Her aunt has it again.  Fortunately, not bad enough for hospital this time.  She just came off her oxygen at Christmas.

 
According to our health department . Transmission rate dropped another...  .2 in one day... And 7 day average dropped 32% (I know this doesn't mean much anymore)

Hopeful light at end of tunnel for everyone

 
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belljr said:
According to our health department . Transmission rate dropped another...  .2 in one day... And 7 day average dropped 32% (I know this doesn't mean much anymore)

Hopeful light at end of tunnel for everyone
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Locally, things definitely slowing down anecdotally. I'll look at numbers this week and see if it shows the same. 

Finally.

 
Last weekend my hospital unit blew up.  25 inpatient covids which is the max.  Right now only about 15.

Small sample size but hopefully it means something.

 
Maryland hospitals are starting to slow down a bit.  This variant has burned through the state so fast and infected so many people that hopefully this is the beginning of the end.  Being vaccinated reduces your risk of getting really sick significantly and being boosted almost eliminates the risk.  Hopefully the combination of people continuing to get boosted combined with natural immunity from this variant makes Covid a seasonal flu like annoyance. 

 
gianmarco said:
Locally, things definitely slowing down anecdotally. I'll look at numbers this week and see if it shows the same. 

Finally.
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ghostguy123 said:
Last weekend my hospital unit blew up.  25 inpatient covids which is the max.  Right now only about 15.

Small sample size but hopefully it means something.
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We’ve been hovering around 100-110 for about a week. That’s about 40 short of our pandemic max, but quintuple our census from a month ago. The unit still has beds, but med/surg consistently over 100% capacity, and the ER keeps creating “virtual beds” in the hallway, waiting room, outside lanai, etc. 

And the “with covid” patients are sick as hell.

 
Terminalxylem said:
We’ve been hovering around 100-110 for about a week. That’s about 40 short of our pandemic max, but quintuple our census from a month ago. The unit still has beds, but med/surg consistently over 100% capacity, and the ER keeps creating “virtual beds” in the hallway, waiting room, outside lanai, etc. 

And the “with covid” patients are sick as hell.
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We've been at the highest census in our history the last two weeks.  Fully 1/4 of the patients are in the hospital for covid and even more are in the hospital with covid.  And like everywhere else, the unvaxxed are the one doing poorly and requiring intensive care, oxygen, and vents.  The ED is constantly on alert with tens of patients waiting for beds.  Our OP surgery area has been shut down and is being used to house covid patients now.  

Thanks to all you've who've gotten vaxxed and double thanks to all who've been boosted.  I can't imagine how many millions would have died if this variant hit with no vaccines available. 

 
Doug B said:
There's a discussion going on in the Political Forum's COVID thread that I'd like to pick up over here and get some feedback. This is as good a jumping off point as any, and I will quote the relevant posts below to set the stage:
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My behavior remains the same though perception of that behavior clearly hasn't.  We have kept it simple the whole time.  Stay away from large groups of people.  Keep distance from people best you can while in stores etc.  Wash hands consistently and often.  Wear a mask when in groups of people inside.  NONE of that has changed for us.  The only thing we've changed is types of masks.  Now that we can get better masks, we got away from the cloth ones.  

 
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