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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (20 Viewers)

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Biff84 said:
Slight change of discussion - justified concern or ‘Karen’?

We just finished up a week + of playing the ‘do we have it’ game. Our Pre-K daughter got strong cold symptoms, my wife mild cold/flu symptoms, myself some chills and body aches and our 1st grader nothing at all. The pre-K teacher was out sick with COVID and around 15 of the students in that class also tested positive. Obviously our first thought was the teacher spread it to our daughter who gave it to us. The problem is that none of us tested positive on home tests or PCR. Despite that I still assume that we all got it.

Now recovered and bringing the girls back to school we’re seeing nothing change. The school claims that masks are required but they have a no-questions opt out for children, parents and students which result in 10-20% wearing masks. Upon the CDC changes and Omicron raging they sent out new guidelines for post exposure with kids - able to return to school after 5 days of asymptomatic but required to wear a mask for 5 days with no opt-out option. In the guidelines they even say that if they can’t wear a mask they can quarantine at home for those 5 days.

None of that is happening. Neither the kids nor the parents are following the rules and the teacher came back after 5 days even though she was clearly still symptomatic. She’s coughing all the time, pale and looks exhausted. She wears a flimsy cloth mask that she sometimes wears over her nose. Several of the students also seem to still be symptomatic.

At what point do you reach out and ask them why they’re not following the protocol they sent out or do you stay silent and hope for the best? My wife wants to raise the issue and/or pull her out for the next week or so. I’ve been talking her down from there but after re-reading the current protocols, I kinda want to call them out privately. The lack of restrictions and enforcement is due to them fearing pushback on masks from parents. I almost feel like someone needs to speak up on this side or nothing will ever enforced.
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Justified concern. I would keep any complaint relevant to this specific situation, though. Expanding it to their overall non-policy, given the constraints they’re up against, likely won’t accomplish anything other than raising their hackles and alienating them.

 
At the pickleball courts yesterday. One of my buddies shows up, haven't seen him in a month or so.

"Hey Tom, where ya been?"

"Oh, I had the ####."

"What ####?"

"Virus ####."

"Did you go in the hospital?"

"No. Not that bad."

"I know this is a personal question but did you get the vax and boost?"

"Vax. No boost. Wife got both and she had it just as bad as me."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My wife seeing me hanging around today. "Aren't you going to pickleball?"

Me. "Uh, thinking about it..."

Neither of us has had it yet (that we know of). And really don't want it. More and more folks I know are getting it.

 
culdeus said:
The fallacy here is that the flu shot is a best guess at what might be the dominant flu strain.  The Covid shot took dead aim at not only what we knew was it, but things about it that didn't even exist yet.  And worked spectacularly well.  Keep concern trolling though.
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I agree the vaxx worked well yet here we are.  I can't help it that your comments follow zero logic.

Edit to add, your original incoherent and hateful rant got zero response.  You response to me got the nature immunity deniers going though.  Gotta love the science deniers.

 
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jamny said:
You mistake my replying to everyone's comments as if I REALLY care about it. I would have been happy with just my original post without having to explain to everyone that misunderstood.

And I didn't say my doctor told me not to get the booster, he said I didn't need it. In fact I actually clarified that recently when joba said he knew someone whose doctor made that specific advice.
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You've posted far more about that than he has about you taking your doctors advice, so perhaps neither of you REALLY care? 

Yes I know, that's my point- his advice wasn't for you to NOT get the booster, it was that he didn't think it was necessary at that time. It's already been pointed out that things have changed (over a month has passed since you've seen him so you likely aren't as protected, and we've learned a lot more about omicron and booster effectiveness since then), so it's entirely possible that he would advise you to get the booster now.

Really though, I'm highlighting the contrasting semantics. Based on what you wrote, he did not advise you to not get the shot, he essentially said "it's up to you" (my words). That's different from saying "I would advise you to NOT get the shot". Based on your arguments over the vaccine messaging I think you see what I'm getting at, words can be interpreted differently and/or twisted to fit a narrative.

 
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Biff84 said:
Slight change of discussion - justified concern or ‘Karen’?

We just finished up a week + of playing the ‘do we have it’ game. Our Pre-K daughter got strong cold symptoms, my wife mild cold/flu symptoms, myself some chills and body aches and our 1st grader nothing at all. The pre-K teacher was out sick with COVID and around 15 of the students in that class also tested positive. Obviously our first thought was the teacher spread it to our daughter who gave it to us. The problem is that none of us tested positive on home tests or PCR. Despite that I still assume that we all got it.

Now recovered and bringing the girls back to school we’re seeing nothing change. The school claims that masks are required but they have a no-questions opt out for children, parents and students which result in 10-20% wearing masks. Upon the CDC changes and Omicron raging they sent out new guidelines for post exposure with kids - able to return to school after 5 days of asymptomatic but required to wear a mask for 5 days with no opt-out option. In the guidelines they even say that if they can’t wear a mask they can quarantine at home for those 5 days.

None of that is happening. Neither the kids nor the parents are following the rules and the teacher came back after 5 days even though she was clearly still symptomatic. She’s coughing all the time, pale and looks exhausted. She wears a flimsy cloth mask that she sometimes wears over her nose. Several of the students also seem to still be symptomatic.

At what point do you reach out and ask them why they’re not following the protocol they sent out or do you stay silent and hope for the best? My wife wants to raise the issue and/or pull her out for the next week or so. I’ve been talking her down from there but after re-reading the current protocols, I kinda want to call them out privately. The lack of restrictions and enforcement is due to them fearing pushback on masks from parents. I almost feel like someone needs to speak up on this side or nothing will ever enforced.
Click to expand...
IMO it's certainly a justified concern, however based on the numbers you've given I'm guessing you're firmly in the minority in your area. Thus, calling them out seems highly unlikely to change anything for the better, so I'd probably just do what you need to do to keep your family safe and hope for the best.

If you can find a few other parents who feel the same way there could be strength in numbers, but unfortunately it seems you would be more likely to piss the teacher/administrators/other parents off than you are to get them to comply.

 
humpback said:
IMO it's certainly a justified concern, however based on the numbers you've given I'm guessing you're firmly in the minority in your area. Thus, calling them out seems highly unlikely to change anything for the better, so I'd probably just do what you need to do to keep your family safe and hope for the best.
Click to expand...
This.

You would not be being a Karen, but I think you need to be realistic on the question of whether there is any upside to be gained. Seems like we're past the time of thinking any "governing body" (and I'll include schools administrators in that) has the courage to anger 30%. Maybe it's just an obnoxious 20%. Still, we're in every man/woman/child for themselves territory with this thing. Efforts to fight that reality just seem like wasted energy. Your complaint will be duly noted, as the person you speak with thinks to him/herself how glad they are to be fending off the rational you vs. an obnoxious freedom fighter.

 
IC FBGCav said:
I agree the vaxx worked well yet here we are.  I can't help it that your comments follow zero logic.

Edit to add, your original incoherent and hateful rant got zero response.  You response to me got the nature immunity deniers going though.  Gotta love the science deniers.
Click to expand...


The issue all along was the vax here wasn't a cure it was a treatment. And broke people's perception of what a vax could be.  Mistaking it for the flu shot or comparisons to it are equally as wrong.  It's in a space that vaccines haven't been before and that's hard for people to grasp but easy to nitpick.  

 
culdeus said:
The issue all along was the vax here wasn't a cure it was a treatment. And broke people's perception of what a vax could be.  Mistaking it for the flu shot or comparisons to it are equally as wrong.  It's in a space that vaccines haven't been before and that's hard for people to grasp but easy to nitpick.  
Click to expand...
i truly believe that if these new vaccines that were created for these new viruses had gone thru the normal stringent 6 years of clinical trials ,that most people would trust it. Vaccines are complex biological products which are given to healthy people. Safety is therefore paramount; vaccine development often entails large, time-consuming and resource-intensive studies in order to detect rare safety issues and to establish vaccine efficacy. You will always have your anti-vaxxers but the way this virus was politicized are people really shocked by the reactions of so many ?

 
If the FDA had said "Sorry Ivan, we're keeping this vaccine off the market for six more years because @ZADO from the internet demands the very best clinical trials" I think I would have become the Joker.

 
Efficacy was established quickly because we were in the middle of a raging pandemic.  All data since public rollout have confirmed efficacy at reducing the chance of bad outcomes. 

Long term studies of the safety are far less vital when tens of thousands are dying every day worldwide.  Short term studies for safety were well established that the vaccines were safe. 

 
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Terminalxylem said:
Although scenario A should always be the better approach, it isn’t the most practical. We have limited resources in reality. It isn’t ideal to be devoting time and money testing everyone who had a cold, transiently thought something tasted funny, and is now using it as justification to drag their feet getting boosted. Especially when there is no single gold standard for immune testing, and healthcare providers are already inundated. While I don’t agree with scare tactics or bullying either, some level of paternalism probably works better on a population level.
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You could very well be right.  I tend to lean more towards the side that if you treat people like untrustworthy children, that is the way they will tend to behave, much more so than if you treat them like competent adults.  But that being said, I haven't had a job that dealt with the general public in decades, and a former coworker when we had these type of discussions would always counter with "the lowest common denominator is pretty low."

IvanKaramazov said:
If the FDA had said "Sorry Ivan, we're keeping this vaccine off the market for six more years because @ZADO from the internet demands the very best clinical trials" I think I would have become the Joker.
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[insert And. Here. We. Go meme here]

You're right about this, but the idiocy of our policy is the old joke about "that which is not forbidden is mandatory."  We told people who would have been willing to take the shots in Spring or Summer of 2020, "Sorry, that would be illegal because [mumble mumble]."  Then later we turned on a dime and told the people who wanted to wait longer "Nope, we've seen enough."  I read the legal paper that I had to sign at the pharmacy before vaccination, and the way that thing was worded was comical in light of the coming mandates.  Basically made it sound like I was signing up for some mystery bottle of medicine from a travelling medic lol.  

 
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ZADO said:
i truly believe that if these new vaccines that were created for these new viruses had gone thru the normal stringent 6 years of clinical trials ,that most people would trust it. Vaccines are complex biological products which are given to healthy people. Safety is therefore paramount; vaccine development often entails large, time-consuming and resource-intensive studies in order to detect rare safety issues and to establish vaccine efficacy.
Click to expand...
This is why I liken it to living in a house while it's being built -- IMHO, we simply didn't have time to wait for a business-as-usual vaccine timeline.

When you say "time-consuming" ... in "non-emergency" vaccine development, a lot of that time had been inactive time where nothing was happening. In response to an active pandemic, there were always methods, techniques, and protocols to get to the finish line of vaccine development much quicker.


 

 
Got booster yesterday.

Arm's sore as #### and I've grown a tail.

Asked the pharmacist administering the shot about any next boosts...."not yet...per current guidelines"

 
[icon] said:
Sigh. 

Thread derailed by the usual suspects... over the same topics.... again and again. 
 
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seriously.  last two pages are just garbage.

PSA:  if you can't resist responding to low value posts, please do the rest of us a favor and start using ignore.

 
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Oof. I spoke to soon the other day when I tested positive that my symptoms were gone...

I've been asleep pretty much 75% of the time since Wednesday.  Fever won't go away.  It's negligible now (99.0) but man am I tired.  Not even tired really, more "loopy" like in a fog. Cough isn't horrible but worse when I lay down at night.  Never lost smell or taste or had headaches or anything but just dint feel like doing anything.  Fever started last Sunday morning, went away for a bit and now 6 days in just can't get back to normal. 

Wife's symptoms nearly identical and started 2 days after mine. For both of us I'd say not as bad as flu but definitely longer lasting. I've lost 10 lbs, which I needed to lose anyway but just not eating. Both of us vaxxed but not boosted.  I've missed the entire 1st official week of soccer practice.  Games start in 2 weeks and I can't even collect my thoughts enough to put a session together.

 
Doug B said:
This is why I liken it to living in a house while it's being built -- IMHO, we simply didn't have time to wait for a business-as-usual vaccine timeline.

When you say "time-consuming" ... in "non-emergency" vaccine development, a lot of that time had been inactive time where nothing was happening. In response to an active pandemic, there were always methods, techniques, and protocols to get to the finish line of vaccine development much quicker.


 
Click to expand...
When i post something like that  i`m merely suggesting this is the mindset of those you are all arguing with about getting vaxxed. I`m not suggesting dont get vaccinated. Everyone should do what makes them feel comfortable.

 
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El Floppo said:
Got booster yesterday.

Arm's sore as #### and I've grown a tail.

Asked the pharmacist administering the shot about any next boosts...."not yet...per current guidelines"
Click to expand...
In the last 30 minutes, feels like I fell down a hole. This is as bad as I felt when I had COVID a couple weeks ago...maybe worse. Super sore/achey, headache and probably a fever. And the tail is twitching something terrible.

 
Judge Smails said:
I admire those that stick to their principals and are willing to die for the cause.  Latest - Meatloaf. "If I die I die".  Me? I prefer to be around for my grandkids.  To each their own.
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thats sad, although i did read that Meat Loaf had health problems throughout his career.

 
Dr_Zaius said:
You could very well be right.  I tend to lean more towards the side that if you treat people like untrustworthy children, that is the way they will tend to behave, much more so than if you treat them like competent adults.  But that being said, I haven't had a job that dealt with the general public in decades, and a former coworker when we had these type of discussions would always counter with "the lowest common denominator is pretty low."

[insert And. Here. We. Go meme here]

You're right about this, but the idiocy of our policy is the old joke about "that which is not forbidden is mandatory."  We told people who would have been willing to take the shots in Spring or Summer of 2020, "Sorry, that would be illegal because [mumble mumble]."  Then later we turned on a dime and told the people who wanted to wait longer "Nope, we've seen enough."  I read the legal paper that I had to sign at the pharmacy before vaccination, and the way that thing was worded was comical in light of the coming mandates.  Basically made it sound like I was signing up for some mystery bottle of medicine from a travelling medic lol.  
Click to expand...
I like treating people like intelligent adults, too. But if the pandemic has taught me anything, it’s that approach gives a segment of our population way, way too much credit. Compounding matters, our collective understanding of basic math and science is extremely lacking. I wouldn’t expect more personal responsibility to overcome those problems.

It’s popular to attribute this mess to failed policy and/or social media, but a lot of the blame rests squarely on our shoulders. We can certainly do better, but it doesn’t appear we have the will to do so.

 
culdeus said:
The issue all along was the vax here wasn't a cure it was a treatment. And broke people's perception of what a vax could be.  Mistaking it for the flu shot or comparisons to it are equally as wrong.  It's in a space that vaccines haven't been before and that's hard for people to grasp but easy to nitpick.  
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with this but I knew from the jump that the shots were not sterilizing.  I think it was huge mistake not looking into/doing major research on any and all treatment to support what the shot does.  

 
ZADO said:
Ive never put anyone on ignore , i just scroll past if im not interested in what they say.
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So you ignore posts the old fashioned way. That’s your prerogative, but those of us who use the feature are saving dramatically on scroll wheel wear-and-tear.

 
Terminalxylem said:
It’s popular to attribute this mess to failed policy and/or social media, but a lot of the blame rests squarely on our shoulders. We can certainly do better, but it doesn’t appear we have the will to do so.
Click to expand...
How?  So if the US was 100% vaccinated, Omicron wouldn't have the same effect coming from South Africa?  

 
I see the CDC has at some point in the last several months added "well fitted" to the mask wearing recommendations.

Weird, how many times has this thread tried to chase me off over this crazy important detail?

@[icon] most recently.

 
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Terminalxylem said:
So you ignore posts the old fashioned way. That’s your prerogative, but those of us who use the feature are saving dramatically on scroll wheel wear-and-tear.
Click to expand...


You have to scroll past ignored posts just the same don't you?

Are you really saving scroll wheel wear and tear?

 
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Judge Smails said:
"This could be due in large part to the fact that vaccines began wearing off around the time delta spread, according to the study."
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I wonder if they knew the vaccines wear off so soon in all the clinical studies they did ,or if we are the clinical studies happening in real time 

 
matuski said:
You have to scroll past ignored posts just the same don't you?

Are you really saving scroll wheel wear and tear?
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It was a joke. I just think it’s a little silly to imply there is something more noble or manly about those who forego the ignore function.

It is nice to have walls of text like GG’s relegated to a single line though.

 
ZADO said:
I`m old enough to remember the 1976 swine flu fiasco 
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What do you remember?

FTR, only 450 people developed Gillian Barre associated with the vaccine, an increased risk of 1 in 100000, or 0.001%. How do you think that compares to the unvaccinated people who’ve succumbed to covid-19?

 
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Anyone know if Flowflex tests are decent? Had a bunch at Target so I picked up the max allowed of 5. They are individual packed for like 8-9 bucks each.

 
IC FBGCav said:
Cool, please explain how.
Click to expand...
Less infection. Less spread. Less severe disease. Less death. Also, less overwhelmed hospitals, lost productivity, missed school days, etc.

The vaccines are less effective against omicron, but they aren’t useless. Especially if recently boosted.

 
Terminalxylem said:
Less infection. Less spread. Less severe disease. Less death. Also, less overwhelmed hospitals, lost productivity, missed school days, etc.

The vaccines are less effective against omicron, but they aren’t useless. Especially if recently boosted.
Click to expand...
How much less?  We are more vaccinated and boosted than a year ago and stats are worse now.  It doesn't match up with your premise.  

 
IC FBGCav said:
How much less?  We are more vaccinated and boosted than a year ago and stats are worse now.  It doesn't match up with your premise.  
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I don't know why the same facts have to be repeated over and over. Omicron does a better job of evading the vaccines BUT the vaccines still do a pretty great job of limiting the numbers for extreme bad outcomes. 

 
cap'n grunge said:
I don't know why the same facts have to be repeated over and over. Omicron does a better job of evading the vaccines BUT the vaccines still do a pretty great job of limiting the numbers for extreme bad outcomes. 
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with anything you said but it has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.

 
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