*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (32 Viewers)

[Doug B]

... touching on nasal vaccines, etc. (not much good news on that front, as expected)

Must be a blind spot on my part -- I had thought there was legitimate hope with the nasal vaccines. Still, I haven't kept up lately -- It will be a nice catch-up to read Topol's summary.

EDIT: Oh -- I thought you meant that Topol's article said nasal vaccines were at a dead end and weren't going to happen. Upon reading your link, quite the opposite. Quoting Topol's article below:

Nasal Vaccines​

We have to get nasal vaccines into high gear to markedly reduce infections and spread. This week I did a Ground Truths podcast with Shane Crotty, one of the leading US immunologist and virologists, on his landmark paper in Nature. By doing nasal and nasopharyngeal swabs every month in 100 participants throughout a year of the pandemic, his team identified the determinants of nasal (mucosal) immunity, which we aren’t going to get from shots. He, like me and many others, including Akiko Iwasaki, remain quite optimistic we’ll get a successful nasal vaccine. That was reinforced by a report from the Washington University group that developed a nasal vaccine and licensed it to India (where it is approved and used). In hamsters, a widely used and accepted experimental SARS-CoV-2model, their nasal vaccine blocked spread. Besides blocking transmission, it reduced infectious virus titers ~100-fold and 100,000-fold in the upper and lower respiratory tract, respectively, of the primary contact following SARS-CoV-2 exposure. That did not occur with mRNA shots.​

​

The investment of the US for Project NextGen has been minimal to develop nasal vaccines with only 2 programs supported and it’s moving quite slowly. I don’t understand why the Washington University nasal vaccine is not being assessed in the US, including regulatory guidance and oversight. And there are many other candidates from academic labs at Mt. Sinai, Emory ,Yale and others. What a missed opportunity.​

 

[Doug B]

From Covid-19 Peaks to New Viral Threats: What You Need to Know

State of Affairs: August 6

yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com

TL;DR = a lot of Covid around; most regions well above last summer's peak; some approaching this past WINTER'S peak

Anecdotal, but: I had it last month, my wife's just getting over COVID right now, and she was exposed to several carriers at her work. Some more cases beyond those we know about through other family & friends. It's definitely waving through the New Orleans metro.

 

[Doug B]

This thread is the only time I hear anything about Covid anymore, at all. I don't know anyone in real life that's even paying attention to it anymore.

I'm assuming that where you are, few people care to check out their sore throat & cold symptoms. If you don't test for COVID, you never know and you can just curse the "summer colds" going around. No judgment -- a lot around here don't home test upon respiratory symptoms, either.

 

[Peggy]

This thread is the only time I hear anything about Covid anymore, at all. I don't know anyone in real life that's even paying attention to it anymore.

I'm assuming that where you are, few people care to check out their sore throat & cold symptoms. If you don't test for COVID, you never know and you can just curse the "summer colds" going around. No judgment -- a lot around here don't home test upon respiratory symptoms, either.

I can't remember the last time I've been sick, I never get sick, but yeah that's kind of the point if it's not much different than the "summer cold" now why is anyone running around testing for it like it's still the black death.

 

[nirad3]

This new iteration of the Rona is not fun. Ask me how I know.

Got back from a guys' trip to Colorado on the Sunday 11th. Felt fine most of that next week and heard that one of the guys on the trip had tested positive on the 13th (Wednesday). I felt fine, didn't feel the need to test, especially since the tests we had were expired and woulda probably been inconclusive anyways.

Well, come Thursday I was starting to feel off so I bought some new tests. Negative.

Felt worse on Friday - like a truck hit me... vice grip holding my brain, fever and body aches, chills.... so tested again... Positive (not surprising).

Been feeling a little better since then. It just feels like my head is stuffy, ears are plugged up. No real cough, never had a sore throat.

I'm thinking I got it on the plane ride home rather than while in Colorado, just based on timing.

Talked to my doctor buddy and he said this crap is everywhere right now. And I can confirm it's not fun.

 

[Scoresman]

This new iteration of the Rona is not fun. Ask me how I know.

Got back from a guys' trip to Colorado on the Sunday 11th. Felt fine most of that next week and heard that one of the guys on the trip had tested positive on the 13th (Wednesday). I felt fine, didn't feel the need to test, especially since the tests we had were expired and woulda probably been inconclusive anyways.

Well, come Thursday I was starting to feel off so I bought some new tests. Negative.

Felt worse on Friday - like a truck hit me... vice grip holding my brain, fever and body aches, chills.... so tested again... Positive (not surprising).

Been feeling a little better since then. It just feels like my head is stuffy, ears are plugged up. No real cough, never had a sore throat.

I'm thinking I got it on the plane ride home rather than while in Colorado, just based on timing.

Talked to my doctor buddy and he said this crap is everywhere right now. And I can confirm it's not fun.

I keep hearing how the incubation period for COVID keeps getting shorter and shorter with new variants. It was between 2-3 days on average with Omicron. Not sure if Flirt got even shorter. Sounds like Sun-Thursday puts you on the late side of that bell curve but still probably from the flight. Airports are just the worst.

 

[Scoresman]

Also, someone shoot down my new theory.

Did they ever find out whether stomach acid kills COVID? I have chronic acid reflux and a thought occurred to me that if COVID really does "live" in the sinus/throat and if stomach acid kills COVID, that might explain why I have never had it despite numerous exposures. I have the type of reflux that even gets into my sinuses at night. Made me think that this sinus/throat environment I have may not be ideal conditions for COVID to thrive if acid is constantly present there.

 

[nirad3]

Also, someone shoot down my new theory.

Did they ever find out whether stomach acid kills COVID? I have chronic acid reflux and a thought occurred to me that if COVID really does "live" in the sinus/throat and if stomach acid kills COVID, that might explain why I have never had it despite numerous exposures. I have the type of reflux that even gets into my sinuses at night. Made me think that this sinus/throat environment I have may not be ideal conditions for COVID to thrive if acid is constantly present there.

Never heard of that. I have frequent heartburn/reflux. I thought I was "immune" in the early days myself. I avoided it until the Summer of '22 and had a bout with it, which was extremely short and inconsequential to be honest. This version is 100x worse. I have been miserable. Feeling OK today but I had about 48 hours where I felt like the Grim Reaper was hangin' around.

 

[skol asylum]

After successfully avoiding Covid 19 all these years it finally got me. It was a run. Don't feel great but symptoms similar to when I've been sick in the past typical ears, nose, and throat. Low grade fever. Tired.

Started with a scratchy throat Wednesday afternoon. Was at a concert Monday night. Not sure if I could get so fast?

Did telehealth call with primary this afternoon. Called in Paxlovid for me because I'm old, high BP, diabetes, etc.

Can't take until tomorrow because have to be off my statin for 24 hours first. If I'm feeling a lot better tomorrow up to me if I want to take it .

Meanwhile I'm just starting a fantasy draft and I've done zero prep. Thank God for the FBG cheat sheets.

 

[jhib]

This new iteration of the Rona is not fun. Ask me how I know.

Got back from a guys' trip to Colorado on the Sunday 11th. Felt fine most of that next week and heard that one of the guys on the trip had tested positive on the 13th (Wednesday). I felt fine, didn't feel the need to test, especially since the tests we had were expired and woulda probably been inconclusive anyways.

Well, come Thursday I was starting to feel off so I bought some new tests. Negative.

Felt worse on Friday - like a truck hit me... vice grip holding my brain, fever and body aches, chills.... so tested again... Positive (not surprising).

Been feeling a little better since then. It just feels like my head is stuffy, ears are plugged up. No real cough, never had a sore throat.

I'm thinking I got it on the plane ride home rather than while in Colorado, just based on timing.

Talked to my doctor buddy and he said this crap is everywhere right now. And I can confirm it's not fun.

I got it - coincidentally after a trip to Colorado - back at the end of July. My wife got it first and it wasn't too bad for her. No fever, but she definitely knew she was sick, and it wiped her out for a few days anyway with fatigue and just feeling generally off. I got it a couple days later and had 3 days of fever, about a week of congestion, and still have a bit of a lingering cough. Not quite as bad as I had it the first time around in Fall of '22, but funny how it affects people differently.

 

[Scoresman]

After successfully avoiding Covid 19 all these years it finally got me. It was a run. Don't feel great but symptoms similar to when I've been sick in the past typical ears, nose, and throat. Low grade fever. Tired.

Started with a scratchy throat Wednesday afternoon. Was at a concert Monday night. Not sure if I could get so fast?

Did telehealth call with primary this afternoon. Called in Paxlovid for me because I'm old, high BP, diabetes, etc.

Can't take until tomorrow because have to be off my statin for 24 hours first. If I'm feeling a lot better tomorrow up to me if I want to take it .

Meanwhile I'm just starting a fantasy draft and I've done zero prep. Thank God for the FBG cheat sheets.

Yup, 2-3 days is average incubation.

 

[skol asylum]

After successfully avoiding Covid 19 all these years it finally got me. It was a run. Don't feel great but symptoms similar to when I've been sick in the past typical ears, nose, and throat. Low grade fever. Tired.

Started with a scratchy throat Wednesday afternoon. Was at a concert Monday night. Not sure if I could get so fast?

Did telehealth call with primary this afternoon. Called in Paxlovid for me because I'm old, high BP, diabetes, etc.

Can't take until tomorrow because have to be off my statin for 24 hours first. If I'm feeling a lot better tomorrow up to me if I want to take it .

Meanwhile I'm just starting a fantasy draft and I've done zero prep. Thank God for the FBG cheat sheets.

So far:

(6 pts passing TD, 1qb 2rb 3wr 1te 2rwt)
1.4 Tyreek
2.9 London
3.4 Cook
4.9 Hurts
5.4 Godwin

Covid brain or nah?

 

[The Z Machine]

My wife finally caught it, but it was a super mild case. Just a small cough and some effect on her sense of smell.

My 80 year old MIL and 11 year old son have still never caught it.

 

[skol asylum]

I'd like to hear a health expert explain to me the risks because I heard many breakdown exactly what is in the vaccine, how it works, and how it is quickly completely out of your system. Vaccines just don't cause long term issues. They just don't. Covid on the other hand is a terrible contributer to long term health problems.

Well buddy, your gonna get it. EVEYONE will. Every single person on this board will be exposed eventually. Nothing can stop you from getting it. The shot won't stop it. You may end up being asymptomatic but you will get it.

Just wanted to give you your props. It got me. August 2024.

 

[snellman]

I'd like to hear a health expert explain to me the risks because I heard many breakdown exactly what is in the vaccine, how it works, and how it is quickly completely out of your system. Vaccines just don't cause long term issues. They just don't. Covid on the other hand is a terrible contributer to long term health problems.

Well buddy, your gonna get it. EVEYONE will. Every single person on this board will be exposed eventually. Nothing can stop you from getting it. The shot won't stop it. You may end up being asymptomatic but you will get it.

Just wanted to give you your props. It got me. August 2024.

Still have not had it. No Shots.

 

[Scoresman]

Still have not had it although had a decent chance of exposure this weekend with a big fantasy draft and 2 flights. It's an odd argument against the vaccines to say that you will get it eventually. That is true, but entirely misses the point of the vaccines.

Anyway, happy the new shots have been approved and will be available soon!

 

[skol asylum]

Whelp, my wife tested positive and both kids have symptoms. I've very popular about now.

Dumb question. Can you catch it again right away? I led the charge and let's say my body clears it out. Can I catch it again in a few days from one of my family members who I gave it to? I wouldnt think so as the immune system should be still in fighting mode?

 

[Doug B]

Dumb question. Can you catch it again right away? I led the charge and let's say my body clears it out. Can I catch it again in a few days from one of my family members who I gave it to? I wouldnt think so as the immune system should be still in fighting mode?

Unless you're very unusual physiologically ... no, you won't catch it again right away.

 

[skol asylum]

Dumb question. Can you catch it again right away? I led the charge and let's say my body clears it out. Can I catch it again in a few days from one of my family members who I gave it to? I wouldnt think so as the immune system should be still in fighting mode?

Unless you're very unusual physiologically ... no, you won't catch it again right away.

Thanks. Just trying to figure out all the quarantining, masks, etc. Seems at this point everyone is getting it so it will be a moot point.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Dumb question. Can you catch it again right away? I led the charge and let's say my body clears it out. Can I catch it again in a few days from one of my family members who I gave it to? I wouldnt think so as the immune system should be still in fighting mode?

Unless you're very unusual physiologically ... no, you won't catch it again right away.

In 2022 I got the booster, then less than 2 weeks later had covid, then 2-3 weeks after that, I got covid again from a funeral.

 

[Scoresman]

Dumb question. Can you catch it again right away? I led the charge and let's say my body clears it out. Can I catch it again in a few days from one of my family members who I gave it to? I wouldnt think so as the immune system should be still in fighting mode?

Unless you're very unusual physiologically ... no, you won't catch it again right away.

In 2022 I got the booster, then less than 2 weeks later had covid, then 2-3 weeks after that, I got covid again from a funeral.

So I know the vaccines take about 2 weeks to fully kick in. I wonder if you got it within the 2 weeks and then had a rebound which is pretty common. Don't know why the vaccine didn't take care of the rebound though.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Dumb question. Can you catch it again right away? I led the charge and let's say my body clears it out. Can I catch it again in a few days from one of my family members who I gave it to? I wouldnt think so as the immune system should be still in fighting mode?

Unless you're very unusual physiologically ... no, you won't catch it again right away.

In 2022 I got the booster, then less than 2 weeks later had covid, then 2-3 weeks after that, I got covid again from a funeral.

So I know the vaccines take about 2 weeks to fully kick in. I wonder if you got it within the 2 weeks and then had a rebound which is pretty common. Don't know why the vaccine didn't take care of the rebound though.

I think I got 2 different variants based on the timing. Neither had me that sick -- unlike this feb/march where I could not move for 3 days.

 

[Doug B]

In 2022 I got the booster, then less than 2 weeks later had covid, then 2-3 weeks after that, I got covid again from a funeral.

Gotcha. Sounded to me like skol asylum's situation involved household spread, likely passing around the same variant to each other. It would be unusual to get re-infected quickly.

 

[PIK95]

Also, someone shoot down my new theory.

Did they ever find out whether stomach acid kills COVID? I have chronic acid reflux and a thought occurred to me that if COVID really does "live" in the sinus/throat and if stomach acid kills COVID, that might explain why I have never had it despite numerous exposures. I have the type of reflux that even gets into my sinuses at night. Made me think that this sinus/throat environment I have may not be ideal conditions for COVID to thrive if acid is constantly present there.

Do you have Barrets syndrome yet? You better get that sorted out. Good luck.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

So, just enrolled in a 6 month study to test a combined Flu and Covid vaccine. There's no placebo arm, just a Covid vaccine arm, Flu vaccine arm, and combined Covid/Flu vaccine arm. It's a Pfizer study.

No idea which one I got yesterday, but like clockwork, feel like crap today like I always feel after either of those.

Anyway, I'd think this is likely going to be available soon.

Is this going to be available this fall? I'll probably go to a CVS in the next few weeks and get two shots at the same time but I guess a single jab would be preferrable.

 

[Dragons]

So, just enrolled in a 6 month study to test a combined Flu and Covid vaccine. There's no placebo arm, just a Covid vaccine arm, Flu vaccine arm, and combined Covid/Flu vaccine arm. It's a Pfizer study.

No idea which one I got yesterday, but like clockwork, feel like crap today like I always feel after either of those.

Anyway, I'd think this is likely going to be available soon.

Is this going to be available this fall? I'll probably go to a CVS in the next few weeks and get two shots at the same time but I guess a single jab would be preferrable.

Doubt this will be available this fall, since the study appears to run 6 months.

 

[Scoresman]

Well my streak of not ever catching COVID is over. Came back from a weekend trip to Seattle feeling like crud and tested positive this morning. The line on the test is THICK.

So far it feels like a cold with a low grade fever. Weird that my symptoms started with a cough. I thought it started in the sinuses these days. Seemed to get all symptoms together.

Anyway, I’m Netty potting, Xlearing, and am exploring paxlovid.

 

[-fish-]

bunch of people I know have COVID right now. Glad the plane I was just on was nearly empty.

 

[Scoresman]

So I haven’t been keeping up and info out there is conflicting. How long after infection is it advised to get the vaccines? Did they ever figure out if infection is as good for protection as the vax?

I’m thinking my timing for getting this is pretty good. Sounds like I can maybe get the booster in time for the holidays.

 

[culdeus]

Kids school has a bunch out.

 

[Scoresman]

Any neat tips or tricks to get rid of this awful Paxlovid taste? At this point, it's the worst part of all this.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

So I haven’t been keeping up and info out there is conflicting. How long after infection is it advised to get the vaccines? Did they ever figure out if infection is as good for protection as the vax?

I’m thinking my timing for getting this is pretty good. Sounds like I can maybe get the booster in time for the holidays.

I believe 3 months post-infection is still the current guidance. I've still not seen anything indicating that infection is as good as vaccination. The best evidence I've seen indicates that vaccination still gives you a more complete protection than infection. I read a pretty interesting piece on this just last week. Will try to remember to drop a link if I can find it again.

 

[Scoresman]

So I haven’t been keeping up and info out there is conflicting. How long after infection is it advised to get the vaccines? Did they ever figure out if infection is as good for protection as the vax?

I’m thinking my timing for getting this is pretty good. Sounds like I can maybe get the booster in time for the holidays.

I believe 3 months post-infection is still the current guidance. I've still not seen anything indicating that infection is as good as vaccination. The best evidence I've seen indicates that vaccination still gives you a more complete protection than infection. I read a pretty interesting piece on this just last week. Will try to remember to drop a link if I can find it again.

Thanks. I guess I dont understand the 3 month thing if the protection from an infection isnt as good. Why wait so long?

 

[3C's]

Anyone know if the vax this year is the same as last? My (adult) daughter felt like crap from the one last year but there is a caveat. All her previous jabs were Pfizer but the last one was moderna.

 

[Dragons]

Anyone know if the vax this year is the same as last? My (adult) daughter felt like crap from the one last year but there is a caveat. All her previous jabs were Pfizer but the last one was moderna.

Feeling worse with Moderna makes sense. Moderna used the maximum dose that was tolerated. Pfizer used the minimum dose that produced an immune response. I would assume that feature of the vaccines are unchanged, even if they were modified to target a more recent variant. She might want to stick with Pfizer (or try Novavax).

 

[3C's]

Anyone know if the vax this year is the same as last? My (adult) daughter felt like crap from the one last year but there is a caveat. All her previous jabs were Pfizer but the last one was moderna.

Feeling worse with Moderna makes sense. Moderna used the maximum dose that was tolerated. Pfizer used the minimum dose that produced an immune response. I would assume that feature of the vaccines are unchanged, even if they were modified to target a more recent variant. She might want to stick with Pfizer (or try Novavax).

Thanks. I did mention to her that I recalled the dosage of moderna being stronger.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

So I haven’t been keeping up and info out there is conflicting. How long after infection is it advised to get the vaccines? Did they ever figure out if infection is as good for protection as the vax?

I’m thinking my timing for getting this is pretty good. Sounds like I can maybe get the booster in time for the holidays.

I believe 3 months post-infection is still the current guidance. I've still not seen anything indicating that infection is as good as vaccination. The best evidence I've seen indicates that vaccination still gives you a more complete protection than infection. I read a pretty interesting piece on this just last week. Will try to remember to drop a link if I can find it again.

Thanks. I guess I dont understand the 3 month thing if the protection from an infection isnt as good. Why wait so long?

How long after infection should I get my updated COVID shot?

Experts recommend waiting 3 to 6 months after infection before getting your updated COVID-19 shot.

thosenerdygirls.substack.com

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Seafood market samples shed light on COVID's origins

New research on the origin of COVID is "like finishing the last piece of a puzzle showing a picture that has been pretty clear already."

www.futurity.org

 

[Terminalxylem]

Just saw the movie Contagion for the first time. Pretty much spot on how people behaved during the pandemic, a much better depiction than Outbreak.

 

[jamny]

Had my 4th bout of covid. Weakest of them all, basically just a cold. Fwiw, I got the 1st two vax shots in 2021 but none since.

 

[3C's]

Guess we're stuck with that thread title of child pneumonia "fears" forever.

 

[Max Power]

After Action Review of the COVID-19 Pandemic: The Lessons Learned and a Path Forward​

After Action Review of the COVID-19 Pandemic: The Lessons Learned and a Path Forward - United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

oversight.house.gov

PDF:
extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/12.04.2024-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT.pdf


Probably nothing groundbreaking...

- NIH funded gain of function at Wuhan
- Lab Leak was likely the source
- Tons of fraud, waste and abuse in the pandemic response
- Decreased trust in public health officials
- School closures will have enduring affect on a generation of kids

 

[IvanKaramazov]

After Action Review of the COVID-19 Pandemic: The Lessons Learned and a Path Forward​

After Action Review of the COVID-19 Pandemic: The Lessons Learned and a Path Forward - United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

oversight.house.gov

PDF:
extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/12.04.2024-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT.pdf


Probably nothing groundbreaking...

- NIH funded gain of function at Wuhan
- Lab Leak was likely the source
- Tons of fraud, waste and abuse in the pandemic response
- Decreased trust in public health officials
- School closures will have enduring affect on a generation of kids

I still can't believe how little accountability there was for any of this stuff.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Wait, now you guys are trusting what the government is telling you about these events? I strongly recommend you stop letting the US Government be your light on any of this stuff. The studies and science are out there for all to read. Our government was and is woefully bad at this stuff. The last place I'd be looking for the goods is in the hands of the politicians unless all I was out to do was score political points and/or reaffirm a narrative I want to be true. They will provide you all the fodder you can handle in that regard. 99.99999% of it will be ********, but they'll offer it to you anyway.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Wait, now you guys are trusting what the government is telling you about these events? I strongly recommend you stop letting the US Government be your light on any of this stuff. The studies and science are out there for all to read. Our government was and is woefully bad at this stuff. The last place I'd be looking for the goods is in the hands of the politicians unless all I was out to do was score political points and/or reaffirm a narrative I want to be true. They will provide you all the fodder you can handle in that regard. 99.99999% of it will be ********, but they'll offer it to you anyway.

This ^

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Wait, now you guys are trusting what the government is telling you about these events? I strongly recommend you stop letting the US Government be your light on any of this stuff. The studies and science are out there for all to read. Our government was and is woefully bad at this stuff. The last place I'd be looking for the goods is in the hands of the politicians unless all I was out to do was score political points and/or reaffirm a narrative I want to be true. They will provide you all the fodder you can handle in that regard. 99.99999% of it will be ********, but they'll offer it to you anyway.

This ^

This is actually kind of ludicrous. Those of us who were paying attention knew all this stuff already. We didn't need a government report to tell us most of this stuff, but it's nice that other people are starting to catch up.

If one were so inclined, I'm sure one could find posts from me, for example, saying back in 2020 that it was pretty likely that NIH funding was involved in the research that went badly in Wuhan. That was completely predictable, because (a) we've always known that something like this was a possibility with GOF research, and (b) everybody even loosely connected to NIH went into full CYA mode instantly and on cue. If this sort of thing is news to you, should ask yourself why other people noticed this immediately and you didn't. That's a good exercise. I try to do it as often as I can.

For example, if I had been making policy decisions back in 2020 based on the information available to policy-makers at the time, I almost certainly would have supported the kind of soft lockdowns that we did in most parts of the US. In hindsight, I realize now that those were much more socially damaging than I had anticipated, and I would be regretting that decision today. (There were people who were saying that about lockdowns in 2020 -- those people were right and I was wrong, and I should probably tip my cap to them because they have a better intuitive feel for this sort of thing than I do, obviously).

 

[3C's]

You mean a partisan report pointing fingers at the other side shouldn't be trusted? Weird!

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Wait, now you guys are trusting what the government is telling you about these events? I strongly recommend you stop letting the US Government be your light on any of this stuff. The studies and science are out there for all to read. Our government was and is woefully bad at this stuff. The last place I'd be looking for the goods is in the hands of the politicians unless all I was out to do was score political points and/or reaffirm a narrative I want to be true. They will provide you all the fodder you can handle in that regard. 99.99999% of it will be ********, but they'll offer it to you anyway.

This ^

This is actually kind of ludicrous. Those of us who were paying attention knew all this stuff already. We didn't need a government report to tell us most of this stuff, but it's nice that other people are starting to catch up.

If one were so inclined, I'm sure one could find posts from me, for example, saying back in 2020 that it was pretty likely that NIH funding was involved in the research that went badly in Wuhan. That was completely predictable, because (a) we've always known that something like this was a possibility with GOF research, and (b) everybody even loosely connected to NIH went into full CYA mode instantly and on cue. If this sort of thing is news to you, should ask yourself why other people noticed this immediately and you didn't. That's a good exercise. I try to do it as often as I can.

For example, if I had been making policy decisions back in 2020 based on the information available to policy-makers at the time, I almost certainly would have supported the kind of soft lockdowns that we did in most parts of the US. In hindsight, I realize now that those were much more socially damaging than I had anticipated, and I would be regretting that decision today. (There were people who were saying that about lockdowns in 2020 -- those people were right and I was wrong, and I should probably tip my cap to them because they have a better intuitive feel for this sort of thing than I do, obviously).

You are talking about the politics (the "report" presented above) primarily framing "fault". I'm talking about the science. If you're equipped with that info, you don't have to listen to or read partisan hackery nonsense. Its tough for a person like me to watch people completely reject what the government was telling them politically back then be the same people embracing the government now as a source of truth because it now supports some preconceived belief. Doing this only makes things worse and lowers the bar of government behavior moving forward. If we are being honest with ourselves we know that we will never "know" all the facts to come to the correct conclusions regarding sourcing, initial spread etc. We can speculate all we want, but it was dishonest to dismiss out of hand possibilities at the time, given what we knew and what could be established as fact. Ironically, we are STILL in that position. We need to get comfortable with the reality of living in the unknown on this. We aren't ever going to know barring some massive security hack/breach/death bed confession etc. And even then, there will be a segment of the population that finds reason to dismiss the knew information (right or wrong).

 

[IvanKaramazov]

You are talking about the politics (the "report" presented above) primarily framing "fault".

No, I'm really not. I'm interested in the underlying reality -- what actually happened, and how the world actually works. I don't really care who is saying what.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

You are talking about the politics (the "report" presented above) primarily framing "fault".

No, I'm really not. I'm interested in the underlying reality -- what actually happened, and how the world actually works. I don't really care who is saying what.

I'm interested in it to, but we're never going to know. That also means that we shouldn't be shocked even a little bit that people aren't being held accountable. That is completely expected in this situation.