jurb26
Footballguy
Yes all games are included. I did the math myself from Espn. You can do it yourself too.
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Official Dez Bryant (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Carl Eller's Dead Liver
- Start date
JShare87
Footballguy
Has anyone in here ever tried to watch that guy get off the line of scrimmage? It is pretty painful to watch. He is terrible at getting separation. Go watch his games where he is getting jammed off the line. He is a physical freak but has no burst what so ever. Romo doesn't force the ball into coverage. Every time he looks at Dez he is covered because the guy just can't separate. He really needs to work on his agility and the ability to beat press coverage.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
why doesn't green get a wow! when he's only .4% behind garcon?
that's like 2 targets difference on teh year
jurb26
Footballguy
Because I think everyone expected Green, Calvin, Andre to be up there. Garçon and Jackson.... Not so much.
Really? He separated fine on the two other targets he got and the balls were terribly overthrown. The CBs weren't close enough to stop him from catching a good ball. He didn't get much separation on the TD because it was such a short route, but he didn't need it.
Remember last year? He was making great catches all over the place. He almost came down with a miracle catch to beat the Giants (just out of bounds).
What about Jeffrey's TD last night? I have seen Dez make lots of catches like that.
I agree with King of the Jungle further up, it seems like many games Romo plays not to lose because of all the grief he gets about losing games with bad throws. I think that also comes from the coaching. I also agree with jurb that he gets a lot of targets, but I disagree that they are actually trying to get him the ball as much as they could in some games. I don't think Stafford gets satisfied letting Calvin get taken out of the game, they move him around to get him open.
Wait, you comment on his getting separation and you don't watch the games? I had Nicks back when he was good and watched him in the pre-season. That is an example of a guy who lost his ability to separate. The results are slightly different than Dez. I posted in the in game thread that on the first overthrow Gruden mentioned Dez didn't separate which couldn't be farther from the truth. Romo threw it high and late, so he had to stop and leap and the CB still just barely got his hand on the side of Dez while the ball went over his hands. A good throw and the CB never comes close to him and a good move on the safety he's got a 50 yard TD.
Watch a Dallas game and watch a Detroit game and see how often Calvin is in the slot and lined up on different sides. Dez seems like he is on the outside every play. I posted earlier about a game I watched where he was invisible and the announcers actually commented on it and said he is never moved around. One of the next plays (almost like Jerry called it in or the coaches watched the telecast, which would not surprise me one bit) Dez is in the slot and catches a nice 40 yard play down the middle. Rest of the game, same as before.
There is no creativeness at all in the Dallas offense. If you watched last night, you heard the commentators talk about things McCown doing things to get his receivers (including Forte) open. Not once did they ever mention anything Romo did likewise. The only good comments were on running plays that gashed what we knew was an awful run D.
I have no doubt that Dez would be better utilized in other offenses. He might not have Calvin results (like he did last year), but he would open up other options better and be used in many ways creating a better overall offense. The Cowboys have done well in a lot of games, but when they hit adversity, they seem to go into we are going to lose mode. They are odd to watch when they click and when they don't. They seem to have talent, which can win very often, but not often enough to be playoff contenders that can make a run. To me, that is coaching.
Amazing even with the fact that Forte is having a stellar year. They are utilizing their talent well. Notice that the other WRs and even Bennett have dropped off recently as Jeffrey has taken off. They realize their three best players are those guys.jurb26 said:
Marshall and Jeffrey last night got almost 50% of the targets. Witten and Bryant (your two best) got about 28% of the targets. It isn't that Bryant is bad when looking at the entire season, but games like these make you wonder if the coaches understand that being way behind means you should try to utilize your best guys.
No worries, it is just really weird to watch them sometimes. They just seem to lack that winner's spirit. It is hard to quantify, but you just see it in games like last night. You saw McCown about to get sacked and what does he do, throw it up to Jeffrey and trust him. 4th and 9 to stay in the game and the same scenario you see Romo throw the ball in the ground nowhere near Murray. They called a screen play, not a route for Bryant or Witten. Do you think the Bears in that situation don't throw it to Marshall/Jeffrey? No way they don't.
Here is my thesis on the Cowboys having been a huge fan for many years and then switching my allegiance to my local club the Panthers. I loved them with Landry, Dorsett, Staubach, White, etc. when I was a little kid and then watching Jimmy take them to the SB and loving that team. Then, I watched Jerry Jones and his huge ego dismantle what could have been the greatest run ever (wouldn't have surprised me with Jimmy to see them win 4 of 4 instead of 3 of 4) because he felt even he could win the SB as the coach.
I think Switzer winning the SB ruined Jerry because it was his affirmation that he could do it without Jimmy even though they won on the talent of the veterans Jimmy put together and coached up.
That said, I think Jerry cares so much about what is said about him (jealous of Jimmy getting a lot of credit) that the team now is built around that philosophy. Remember Jimmy's prediction about beating the 49ers (a hell of a team at that time)? He basically said that they would do whatever they wanted and grind them down and they did. The current Cowboys team seems to react to media comments about Romo losing games and take what the opposing teams give them. It gets them some wins, but it doesn't create a team that feels like they can control the game and take what they want.
Dez threw some temper tantrums, but I expect that out of WRs. The best ones have a me first, give me the damn ball mentality. They want jump balls and they want to win them. I don't think the rest of the Cowboys team has that mentality. I don't see one bit of Tom Brady's fighting spirit in Romo. I see him have talent to win games, but I don't see him and Garrett as the kind of guys that infuse the rest of the team with confidence that breeds wins and playoff wins. I know people say Peyton lacks what Brady has, but I think he has that same team building confidence. He isn't as fiery, but his WRs and teammates don't have any doubt in him at all.
tl;dr, but it was fun typing it.
I think Switzer winning the SB ruined Jerry because it was his affirmation that he could do it without Jimmy even though they won on the talent of the veterans Jimmy put together and coached up.
That said, I think Jerry cares so much about what is said about him (jealous of Jimmy getting a lot of credit) that the team now is built around that philosophy. Remember Jimmy's prediction about beating the 49ers (a hell of a team at that time)? He basically said that they would do whatever they wanted and grind them down and they did. The current Cowboys team seems to react to media comments about Romo losing games and take what the opposing teams give them. It gets them some wins, but it doesn't create a team that feels like they can control the game and take what they want.
Dez threw some temper tantrums, but I expect that out of WRs. The best ones have a me first, give me the damn ball mentality. They want jump balls and they want to win them. I don't think the rest of the Cowboys team has that mentality. I don't see one bit of Tom Brady's fighting spirit in Romo. I see him have talent to win games, but I don't see him and Garrett as the kind of guys that infuse the rest of the team with confidence that breeds wins and playoff wins. I know people say Peyton lacks what Brady has, but I think he has that same team building confidence. He isn't as fiery, but his WRs and teammates don't have any doubt in him at all.
tl;dr, but it was fun typing it.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Bryant's on pace for 145 targets and 86 - 1118 - 12; are we really crying about how "underutilized" the guy is? It sucks that he had an off game in the FF playoffs, but they were gouging the Bears' on the ground last night. Last night's offensive game plan was just fine, as has been the Dallas offense every time I've seen them. Last night (and most of the issues this year) is pretty much 100% on the defense.
jurb26
Footballguy
On the season Bryant and Witten have 44% of the targets. Murray, also a good option has 49 for another 10.5%. I have no idea where that falls in the scheme of things but it seems reasonable. Again, targets fluctuate from week to week. I don't know why everyone is getting so caught up in a game last night where Romo threw the ball only 20 times.
The General
Footballguy
The way the Cowboys use Dez is maddening. It is what it is at this point in the season.
He's still ok usually fantasy wise,they love that back shoulder throw in the end zone to him, but man it seems like he could dominate games if they used him differently. They just split him way out and let him decoy for large chunks of drives.
The Cowboys offense is ok this year so why change I guess. that D is so bad it doesn't really matter.
He's still ok usually fantasy wise,they love that back shoulder throw in the end zone to him, but man it seems like he could dominate games if they used him differently. They just split him way out and let him decoy for large chunks of drives.
The Cowboys offense is ok this year so why change I guess. that D is so bad it doesn't really matter.
Ned Ryerson
Footballguy
FWIW though the TDs have been great, that 1118 is probably about 300 yards south of what I think people were projecting for him this.
Understood, but that is what seems so odd. A game like this where they fall that far behind and Witten + Bryant have 28% of the targets. They had the first two TDs and it seemed like they were literally ignored after they were tied 14-14 when I would expect them to be the go to guys as they got down more and more. It is like they just gave up like they did against New Orleans at a point where it may be highly unlikely to win, but still possible. Look at the ridiculous finishes yesterday and you see a lot of QBs that refused to give up. Look at those two fourth down plays and I don't see a QB/team that cares about winning, hence the collapses, missed playoffs and 1 playoff win in many year. Just my opinion, but I can see why Dez gets frustrated. He was amped after the TD and I like WRs to be egomaniacs that think they will catch everything and shrug off drops.
smapdi
Footballguy
I truly don't understand their playcalling.
Witten and Dez caught their 2 TD's to tie the game. Why abandon your best 2 players when you are down by multiple scores??
That 4th and 9 play was a disgrace. I turned the game off right after that. That is not a play you call when you're trying to win an important game to make the playoffs. Just terrible. Romo just chucks the ball into the dirt after about "1 mississippi"... It was just a disgrace of a play all around.
I don't care if Murray is averaging 8 ypc, you can't make up a multiple TD deficit with 8-9 min drives using your running game. It's just not possible.
Witten and Dez caught their 2 TD's to tie the game. Why abandon your best 2 players when you are down by multiple scores??
That 4th and 9 play was a disgrace. I turned the game off right after that. That is not a play you call when you're trying to win an important game to make the playoffs. Just terrible. Romo just chucks the ball into the dirt after about "1 mississippi"... It was just a disgrace of a play all around.
I don't care if Murray is averaging 8 ypc, you can't make up a multiple TD deficit with 8-9 min drives using your running game. It's just not possible.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Walked off the field early today and of course the cameras caught him.
smapdi
Footballguy
Game was over... I don't blame him
I would be pretty pissed off if I was him. He dominated that Packer's secondary all game long and made a highlight reel, one handed TD catch thru the defender while being pushed out of bounds to give them them the lead.
He had 11 rec / 153 yards / 1 Highlight TD entering those final 2 drives and Romo just neglects him. I'm sure he was fuming after beating up that secondary all game long & then he just becomes an after thought.
WR's like Bryant thrive off of challenges & exposure. That TD catch he had was a thing of beauty and just illustrates the type of plays he his capable of. I just don't understand why the Cowboy's don't take a page out of DET's playbook and just start airing it out to him & letting him beat out the defender. This is the NFL; rarely is a WR ever going to be wide open. The reason you draft a Dez Bryant in the 1st round is because he doesn't need to be wide open to make plays.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Punk. Dez is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Dez certainly has his problems, but 31 other teams in the league would gladly take him off of Dallas' hands.
Captain Crunk
Footballguy
Andre Johnson walked off the field early a few games back too. I thought that was weak but it didn't get much play here locally, but Dez will get hammered.
Great game though and he helped me into the finals. Hopefully he can have some consistency and do it again next week.
Great game though and he helped me into the finals. Hopefully he can have some consistency and do it again next week.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I think you make some great points here but is the walk off early a sign of poor leadership, meaning do you want your whole team to act like Dez did? I can appreciate his passion and fire, and he probably should not be given a 2nd thought about it but he is a big play making WR who has a star on the side of his helmet, that means he is under a microscope.
Brady cusses out a ref as he walks off the field at the end of the Carolina game and no one bats an eye but Dez leaves the field a moment early and doesn't want to to stick around to shake hands, stop the presses.
For sure.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
not so sure on that. Players like him don't win championships.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
do you think Dez or the Cowboys will win a Super Bowl while he's there?
Yes lets throw on field production out thev window when searching for solutions.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
do you not recall the thread you started about Brady? Lots of people thought that was poor form.
steveski
Footballguy
No, but that's not because of Dez. If they had Megatron, they'd still have no shot.do you think Dez or the Cowboys will win a Super Bowl while he's there?
Yes lets throw on field production out thev window when searching for solutions.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Of course I do, and much like that thread stated time and time again, Dez will get hammered for this and Brady got nothing but understanding from the masses because he was SO INTO the game and the call was so outrageous that Brady was excused for his mishandling after the game. Dez walked off the field when Flynn was taking a knee, so what?
You think Dez is a punk so maybe we should not debate tho topic. You have your POV and I'll have mine on this.
Brady continued to show poor form by cussing in the post game news conference yesterday which kids watch and listen to, doubt many of them would have known about Dez unless the double standard media heads were not tattle telling on him every chance they get.
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Well be sure. He's one of the top 5 receivers on the planet and he has more passion to win than 90% of players in the league. His coaches and teammates love him. He's not just collecting a paycheck. You can hate him all you want, but there's not a team in the league who wouldn't sign him tomorrow if they could.
correct. Not with Romo at QBNo, but that's not because of Dez. If they had Megatron, they'd still have no shot.do you think Dez or the Cowboys will win a Super Bowl while he's there?
Yes lets throw on field production out thev window when searching for solutions.
matuski
Footballguy
No, but Dez Bryant's production on the football field wouldn't even make the list for reasons/excuses why.do you think Dez or the Cowboys will win a Super Bowl while he's there?
Yes lets throw on field production out thev window when searching for solutions.
On your list of reasons the Cowboys won't win a Superbowl any time soon, where does the second best wide receiver the team has ever had rank?
Banger
Footballguy
with that defense and mistake prone QB? not a chance. It's not because of Dez though...he's certainly not losing games for them. He's their only elite player on either side of the ball.do you think Dez or the Cowboys will win a Super Bowl while he's there?
Yes lets throw on field production out thev window when searching for solutions.
He's immature and doesn't handle losing/adversity well but it's certainly not his fault that they implode year after year.
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jurb26
Footballguy
Not really true. They have a RB who is 10th in the NFL in rushing despite missing 2 games. He's easily got the best YPA of any RB in the NFL with over 100 carries at 5.5 and for some reason Dal refuses to use him when the games are on the line. I'd also say that Witten guy isn't bad.with that defense and mistake prone QB? not a chance. It's not because of Dez though...he's certainly not losing games for them. He's their only elite player on either side of the ball.He's immature and doesn't handle losing/adversity well but it's certainly not his fault that they implode year after year.do you think Dez or the Cowboys will win a Super Bowl while he's there?
Yes lets throw on field production out thev window when searching for solutions.
C'mon, really? I'll throw myself in the Dez backers for you, but why is the 17 targets an issue? Murray had 134 yards on 18 carries or 7.4 ypc. That seems pretty impressive. Well, let's look at Dez. 153 yards on 17 targets. Well, that is 9 yards per target. So, every time they threw to Dez, they got 9 yards. Why is that an issue? Did that cause them to squander the game? He produced
Do you remember the last two INTs? Were they throwing it to Dez or were they to Austin and Beasley? Yep, the latter. Did you watch that TD grab? The DB was in better position, yet Dez came down with the ball. Would Beasley or Austin have caught that? No, it would have been another INT if it weren't Bryant.
I wouldn't complain about any touch for Murray or Dez, they produced, period. Game on the line and they went away from the guys who got them there.
Dez will catch a ton of heat, but what about Murray? Was he immature and disrespectful for pulling off his helmet and screaming? I honestly don't blame Bryant. Could he handle it better? Sure. Is he sick of watching his defense suck so bad (like the Lions game) that they can single handedly make them lose the division? Yes. Is he sick of watching balls get thrown to other players and have them end up as game losing INTs? Yes.
Banger
Footballguy
Murray is a good player but he's not the focus of the offense and hasn't proven to be a goto player. Could he be? Not sure but he hasn't shown it yet. Believe me, I like him but he's not in the elite tier of RBs. Witten was...Not really true. They have a RB who is 10th in the NFL in rushing despite missing 2 games. He's easily got the best YPA of any RB in the NFL with over 100 carries at 5.5 and for some reason Dal refuses to use him when the games are on the line.I'd also say that Witten guy isn't bad.with that defense and mistake prone QB? not a chance. It's not because of Dez though...he's certainly not losing games for them. He's their only elite player on either side of the ball.He's immature and doesn't handle losing/adversity well but it's certainly not his fault that they implode year after year.do you think Dez or the Cowboys will win a Super Bowl while he's there?
Yes lets throw on field production out thev window when searching for solutions.
My only point was that Dez is biggest difference maker on the team and Dallas imploding year after year isn't due to him. It's the entire culture, their deer in headlight coach, mistake prone Romo far before I'd place blame at Dez's feet.
ETA...I don't own Dez (traded him last year) and hate the Cowboys so I don't really have a horse in the race...
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Football Menace
Footballguy
Not with Romo at quarterback.do you think Dez or the Cowboys will win a Super Bowl while he's there?
Yes lets throw on field production out thev window when searching for solutions.
Your RB is avg 7.5yds a carry and you check out of a called run play on 2nd and 6 while trying to close out a game? That's situational football 101. And if I stupidly check out of the play and throw in that situation, at the very least I'm looking for Dez or Witten. Romo is just prone to the game killing bonehead play. Period.
jurb26
Footballguy
You clearly don't get it. I was being largely facetious. Every week Bryant doesn't get a load of targets we hear the crying about how he isn't involved enough, though basically no statistical evidence backs that up. We also hear how they would win had he been more involved. Yet, he gets 17 targets, nearly as many as their RB, and they lose... Still. Nobody should be more upset by the wretched play calling by Dal than Murray. What more does this guy have to do to earn touches when the game is on the line? Do you even realize that Murray had only 6 carries in the 2nd half? 4 of which came on the first drive of the half that put them up 19 points. Then, 2 carries the rest of the game.
As I've said before, I don't think Dez is the problem. Many Dez owners, I'm one, are simply delusional though. They act like Dez is the only capable player on the team because that is what's best for their fantasy team. He's not. Dal has major issues on defense first and foremost but they also have awful time management and coaching... Perhaps leadership as well. Romo is awful late in games and in general I think Romo is an average QB at best.
Shutout
Footballguy
Can't agree with that. This team is a 4 win team without Dez Bryant. I agree, his "on the sideline" actions are BAD sometimes and I know that can have a carry-over effect into locker rooms and everything. But there is no way that what he does on the field doesn't help more than his pouting which media jump all over hurts.
The guy makes plays but the team wants to ignore him in critical times. I'd be upset too. Yesterday was strange all the way around because, honestly, they never should have been in the position to even NEED Dez to make a play..which would trickle down to there was no need for him to be upset that it ended as it did.
This one truly starts at the top. He could have sat out the entire second half basically, caught a pass or two in the second half and the Cowboys could have won 38-17 and I guarantee you Dez would have been fine after the game. He's a high torque guy that gets blasted for immaturity but, to me, he's mature; mature enough to recognize when his team is blowing it and you just don't get these chances handed to you.
Shutout
Footballguy
Andre Johnson did the exact same thing a few weeks ago and I guarantee you no one questions his leadership. Very fine line between extreme frustration/passion and being a jerk. Dez won't get the benefit of the doubt and I won't argue that he has earned that level yet, but looking at it as that one situation yesterday, I would say he is justified. That game STUNG for Cowboys fans and should never have went down like that. That's a TOUGH one to swallow as a fan so its got to be brutal as a player.
Shutout
Footballguy
I just did. Totally inexcusable that they game played like that. Dez should have had about three targets in the second half and they should have just run over the Packers and never put that game in that position.
No I do get it and I agree that other owners cry too much about targets. Look at your bolded statement. You are trying to say that Dez got his targets and they still lost. So, he got 153-1TD against the Packers and they score 36 points and your statement seems to point that Dallas would have been better off not throwing to him. That is about as silly a statement as others have made in this thread backing Dez. Murray should be a bit upset, but he shouldn't be upset at any target to Dez. Dez was more productive in his 17 targets than Murray was in his rushes and receptions. So, regardless of you saying Murray should have gotten more, it would have been worse for them if it came out of Dez's pie. Now, not throwing to Austin and Beasley and running the ball, then yes, I agree.
All I will say is that I think we actually agree more than you think. I get it as well. Last week is an example. You are down a ton and while Murray was effective, he cannot get you quick scores and the fact that Dez had 4 targets when your opponent had a lead for most of the game and put up 45 is telling. I think the management and coaching is to blame. They seem to know how to screw things up. They seem to outsmart themselves or allow the opponents to outsmart them. Dez should have had 17 targets last week and Murray should have had more runs this week. Dez could have had less targets, but going away from him this week would have also been a mistake. Again, why have play calls at the end of the game in crunch time that aren't for Dez, aren't for Murray and to a lesser degree aren't for Witten?
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I actually like that he walked off early - Look, this guy is never going to be like a Calvin Johnson leader in the locker room, clearly more towards a T.O., but I don't think he is as poisonous. This is a guy who wants to win & was clearly devastated by a heart-breaking loss.
He walked off with 1:21 to go. The game was over, 3 kneel downs.
He walked off with 1:21 to go. The game was over, 3 kneel downs.
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
Im a Dez owner and I dont think his act really helps the Cowboys, however that team has bigger issues. Tony Romo continues with an amazing ability to choke, and Demarco Murray should have had at least 30 carries yesterday and gone over 200. They routinely forget about Murray even when he is gashing other teams. I dont really condone when Dez gets pissed..........
But I understand (Chris Rock voice)
But I understand (Chris Rock voice)
habsfan
Footballguy
Dez's periodic decisions to not be a "good soldier" in these situations ("leadership" is a mislabel) are ironic. He's trying to protest what is going on with that team but instead of putting the focus on what is really wrong, he makes himself a scapegoat of sorts. Dez walking off the field is on the front page and the Dallas collapse is on page 7...
Johnny Blood
Footballguy
Unless Romo audibled out of 20 other runs as well, blame the coaches.
As for Dez, his behavior has been blown out of proportion since he was drafted. Yes he is a hothead but I never hear him being selfish or undermining teammates. He seems to throw tantrums when they play like crap, not because he isn't getting stats. He seems to be a good team player and a good blocker.
This is from a Packers fan who hates the Cowboys.
Garrett's comments about Romo's audible were a big mistake IMO. That's pathetic.
As for Dez, his behavior has been blown out of proportion since he was drafted. Yes he is a hothead but I never hear him being selfish or undermining teammates. He seems to throw tantrums when they play like crap, not because he isn't getting stats. He seems to be a good team player and a good blocker.
This is from a Packers fan who hates the Cowboys.
Garrett's comments about Romo's audible were a big mistake IMO. That's pathetic.
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