"Official" Donald Trump for President: Great Wall of Mexico (6 Viewers)

[skol asylum]

 

 

[General Malaise]

That quote references the handouts that the lazy get. It doesn't say anything about handouts that people who aren't lazy get. 

What I want to know is how many are lazy vs non-lazy and what is the delineation point between the two.  He said the number was too high....well, how high?  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

To be fair, it's a fair criticism of Walker. 

Sure, lousy way to get GOP votes in a primary though.

 

[Skoo]

A general question since bigotry is the word of the day:  

Is it bigoted to be bigoted against bigots?

Meaning, if a group of people are bigots, is it ok to be "against them"?

Sure is. 

I don't have to be tolerant of intolerance. Nor am I.

The only way things change is if people speak up.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/03/29/corey-lewandowski-battery-michelle-fields/

Palm Beach County State Attorney Dave Aronberg is part of Hillary Clinton’s team.


In case there was any doubt about Hillary Clinton‘s overwhelming Democratic establishment support, her campaign this morning rolled out a 150-member “Florida Leadership Council” that includes most of the state’s big Democratic names — but is a little thin on Palm Beach County support,

Palm Beach County State Attorney Dave Aronberg and Tax Collector Anne Gannon are also part of Clinton’s Florida team.

Yeah good point.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Fun with Trump supporters on Twitter

That's pretty amazing.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

A general question since bigotry is the word of the day:  

Is it bigoted to be bigoted against bigots?

Meaning, if a group of people are bigots, is it ok to be "against them"?

I'll say yes but it's not cool to profile.

 

[shader]

Sure is. 

I don't have to be tolerant of intolerance. Nor am I.

The only way things change is if people speak up.

By the strict definition of the word, we are all bigots in some form or fashion.

Which is why it's annoying that it's become a huge label to put on someone to prove that they are a horrible person.

For all I know Trump is a horrible person and conducts KKK meetings in his basement.  But him wanting to show some restraint on allowing Muslims into the country for awhile seems like an understandable thought, in the aftermath of a horrific terrorist attack.

But label him a bigot, and now you've got anger everywhere.

Of course..we're all bigoted against ISIS, right?  So why is it bigoted if it's against Muslims and not bigoted if it's against ISIS?  Because "society" says so? 

 

[lod01]

 Only 9 pages and it's as if we never missed a beat after page 530 of the other Trump therad. Great job.

SaintsInDome2006 back at it collecting $ from some other campaign for each post he adds to the thread. Anti-Trump's working the racism and bigot angle. Trumpsters taking the highroad and not stooping to those low levels of the anti-Trumps.

 

[flapgreen]

By the strict definition of the word, we are all bigots in some form or fashion.

Which is why it's annoying that it's become a huge label to put on someone to prove that they are a horrible person.

For all I know Trump is a horrible person and conducts KKK meetings in his basement.  But him wanting to show some restraint on allowing Muslims into the country for awhile seems like an understandable thought, in the aftermath of a horrific terrorist attack.

But label him a bigot, and now you've got anger everywhere.

Of course..we're all bigoted against ISIS, right?  So why is it bigoted if it's against Muslims and not bigoted if it's against ISIS?  Because "society" says so? 

Guess is as good as mine 

 

[Ilov80s]

 Only 9 pages and it's as if we never missed a beat after page 530 of the other Trump therad. Great job.

It's tough for Trump supporters. Obviously, the Democrats are going to harass you. However, because Trump is so unpopular with Republicans, Trump fans are getting it from both ends. I am sure this is how McGovern supporters felt in 72. If Donald wins, he will be the most disliked major party candidate since McGovern. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

By the strict definition of the word, we are all bigots in some form or fashion.

Which is why it's annoying that it's become a huge label to put on someone to prove that they are a horrible person.

For all I know Trump is a horrible person and conducts KKK meetings in his basement.  But him wanting to show some restraint on allowing Muslims into the country for awhile seems like an understandable thought, in the aftermath of a horrific terrorist attack.

But label him a bigot, and now you've got anger everywhere.

Of course..we're all bigoted against ISIS, right?  So why is it bigoted if it's against Muslims and not bigoted if it's against ISIS?  Because "society" says so? 

No, it doesn't.

Also, this whole "we're all bigots" thing is a little weird. I think >95% of people use the word to mean negative feelings towards members of a particular minority group (religious, ethnic, gender, sexuality, etc.) rather than towards an ideology or concept. I realize that some dictionary definitions consider it synonymous with "intolerant," but IMO nobody uses the word that way, certainly not those who accuse Trump of being a bigot.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

You do realize that if "they" (whoever they are) ask Christians, many will feel that the Ten Commandments trump the Constitution, right?  And, if "they" ask Catholics, many will feel the Pope's proclamations on things like abortion trump what U.S. law says about it, right?  Are we going to keep them from walking on US soil as well?  Or, do those sit well with you?

I disagree, most Christians do not walk around shoving the 10 Com in folks faces. In fact most Christians acknowledge the 10s and why they were created in the OT, a book which BTW most Evangelicals do not 100% support, many of them say they only implement the New Testament. 

We can have different opinions or feelings about this. I do understand your POV and I respect that.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Is Tobias capable of making a point without be a condescending tool?

He's passionate

 

[Ilov80s]

Is Tobias capable of making a point without be a condescending tool?

No. We should expect more out of such a well known analrapist. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

No. We should expect more out of such a well known analrapist. 

I've had an inflated opinion of myself ever since I shot that "Men With Low Self-Esteem" video.

 

[shader]

No, it doesn't.

Also, this whole "we're all bigots" thing is a little weird. I think >95% of people use the word to mean negative feelings towards members of a particular minority group (religious, ethnic, gender, sexuality, etc.) rather than towards an ideology or concept. I realize that some dictionary definitions consider it synonymous with "intolerant," but IMO nobody uses the word that way, certainly not those who accuse Trump of being a bigot.

It makes sense to me for a politician to say that.  The common denominator in San Bernadino, 9/11, the Boston Massacre, the London bombing, the Paris shooting, Belgium and even Pakistan the other day (not to mention the countless number of terrorist attacks that take place in the Middle East that aren't reported on) is Muslim extremism.  

Now what Trump said was ludicrous and impossible.  But I don't think it stems from bigotry, I think it stems from anger at violence.  I doubt many people in the US just woke up and decided to hate Muslims.  It's not like racism, where there's no reason behind it.  It's not anger against a group of people that can't change what they are, it's anger against a group of people that have a certain set of beliefs.

Also, I never knew Muslims were a minority group.  Aren't there 1.6 billion?  I suppose they are a minority group in the US, but it won't be too long before they are the majority religion worldwide, and I'd say they already are the majority worldwide in terms of active religious worshipers.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

 Only 9 pages and it's as if we never missed a beat after page 530 of the other Trump therad. Great job.

SaintsInDome2006 back at it collecting $ from some other campaign for each post he adds to the thread. Anti-Trump's working the racism and bigot angle. Trumpsters taking the highroad and not stooping to those low levels of the anti-Trumps.

The best part is we have found a core group of folks with some common interests and the parallel running PM thread we have has strengthened some bonds around here. I don't want to speak for the group but it's kind of nice to roll in and see what's happening in the tree house between shifts(life). 

Sidenote: SIDome'06 makes you work a little harder to get your point across but I don't think he is a fisherman. I'd buy(charge it to his bill) him a beer at the bar for sure. 

 

[Skoo]

By the strict definition of the word, we are all bigots in some form or fashion.

Which is why it's annoying that it's become a huge label to put on someone to prove that they are a horrible person.

For all I know Trump is a horrible person and conducts KKK meetings in his basement.  But him wanting to show some restraint on allowing Muslims into the country for awhile seems like an understandable thought, in the aftermath of a horrific terrorist attack.

But label him a bigot, and now you've got anger everywhere.

Of course..we're all bigoted against ISIS, right?  So why is it bigoted if it's against Muslims and not bigoted if it's against ISIS?  Because "society" says so? 

Islam is a religion.

ISIS is a group of terrorists waging war against the West.

Not all Muslims are part of ISIS.

It's okay to be against ISIS, because their members are against us.

Not all Muslims are against us, which is why it is bigoted to paint them all with that brush and then propose to keep all people of that religion out of the country.

This country was founded by PEOPLE ESCAPING RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION. Would be kind of hypocritical of us to start closing our borders to people simply because of their religion.

Clearer now?

 

[skol asylum]

Fun with Trump supporters on Twitter

Apparently she has received a little backlash and can't take the heat. Typical Trumpian response, can dish it but can't take it.

@MontielJoy: Screw all of you, at least I put what's right and know how to apologize when I'm wrong, more than any liberal can or would do.  Screw you!!

@MontielJoy: I feel sorry for you people if this is all you have to do all day.  Must be nice to sit on welfare and be #######s.  Have a nice day!

This is totally different of course then her sitting on Twitter and swearing at magazines and tweeting and retweeting Trump propaganda.

 

[shader]

No, it doesn't.

Also, this whole "we're all bigots" thing is a little weird. I think >95% of people use the word to mean negative feelings towards members of a particular minority group (religious, ethnic, gender, sexuality, etc.) rather than towards an ideology or concept. I realize that some dictionary definitions consider it synonymous with "intolerant," but IMO nobody uses the word that way, certainly not those who accuse Trump of being a bigot.

Another thing...  you can't change your ethnic group.  You can't change your gender. You can change your religion.  

I think that has value in the conversation.  Can't lump gender, ethnic groups and religion in the same bucket, imo.  

 

[General Malaise]

You can't change your gender?  Somebody might want to call the Jenner family....

 

[Skoo]

It makes sense to me for a politician to say that.  The common denominator in San Bernadino, 9/11, the Boston Massacre, the London bombing, the Paris shooting, Belgium and even Pakistan the other day (not to mention the countless number of terrorist attacks that take place in the Middle East that aren't reported on) is Muslim extremism.  

More Americans have been killed since 9/11 by White Christian American Domestic Terrorists than by Muslims.

Funny, I haven't heard anyone talk about kicking them out.

Which isn't to say there aren't violent Muslims who wish us harm. And a lot of them.

But banning ALL people of a particular religion is the antithesis of everything we're supposed to stand for as a country.

"Those who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither" - Ben Franklin

 

[Rubiobot]

this whole thread dominated by anti Trump zealots

only ones missing are  sho/rubiobot & Junior

 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Another thing...  you can't change your ethnic group.  You can't change your gender. You can change your religion.  

I think that has value in the conversation.  Can't lump gender, ethnic groups and religion in the same bucket, imo.  

Yeah that's true, the lines aren't 100% clear between the traits we usually think of as things one can be bigoted against and things like political ideology.  All I can do is default to what I think is the usual usage of the word, which would include bigotry against religions but not against factions or political ideologies, and why I think it's fair to apply to Trump more so than most people. I realize "how people use the word" isn't scientific or something, but that's the best we can do.

 

[The Commish]

That quote references the handouts that the lazy get. It doesn't say anything about handouts that people who aren't lazy get. 

What I want to know is how many are lazy vs non-lazy and what is the delineation point between the two.  He said the number was too high....well, how high?

too...duh

not sure I can assume he meant 2 or two either

 

[shader]

Yeah that's true, the lines aren't 100% clear between the traits we usually think of as things one can be bigoted against and things like political ideology.  All I can do is default to what I think is the usual usage of the word, which would include bigotry against religions but not against factions or political ideologies, and why I think it's fair to apply to Trump more so than most people. I realize "how people use the word" isn't scientific or something, but that's the best we can do.

That's a fair point

 

[Skoo]

It's not even relevant to argue whether or not Trump himself is a bigot.

What matters is that he talks like a bigot, in order to get votes from bigots.

That's enough to make him a pathetic excuse for a human being, whether or not he actually believes any of the BS he spouts.

Has the same effect either way.

 

[shader]

More Americans have been killed since 9/11 by White Christian American Domestic Terrorists than by Muslims.

Funny, I haven't heard anyone talk about kicking them out.

Which isn't to say there aren't violent Muslims who wish us harm. And a lot of them.

But banning ALL people of a particular religion is the antithesis of everything we're supposed to stand for as a country.

"Those who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither" - Ben Franklin

I certainly am not advocating banning all Muslims, nor has anyone that I've read?

 

[Rubiobot]

The thing that blows my mind about the Trump haters is that I think they all would consider Ted Cruz a better option...

That is probably true and it's a reflection of how terrible of a candidate Trump is.

 

[Skoo]

I certainly am not advocating banning all Muslims, nor has anyone that I've read?

Ummm....Donald Trump has said this.

I assumed you knew that when you said " But him wanting to show some restraint on allowing Muslims into the country for awhile seems like an understandable thought, in the aftermath of a horrific terrorist attack"

 

[shader]

Ummm....Donald Trump has said this.

I assumed you knew that when you said " But him wanting to show some restraint on allowing Muslims into the country for awhile seems like an understandable thought, in the aftermath of a horrific terrorist attack"

I was under the impression he was wanting to put a major halt on travel/immigration until the terrorist problem was figured out, not an outright ban of Muslims, of which there are already millions in the country.  Also, I was under the impression it was a temporary thing.

Again, dumb idea, but bigotry?  I wouldn't say so.

 

[Rubiobot]

You can almost rewrite this...

It's really not what the election is about.  

This election is about Democratic leadership looking on helplessly as the monster they created spins completely out of control.  They stopped caring about issues long ago, gathered votes through fear and racial politics, and Hilary is just taking it to the next level.  

Bernie is next level as well, meaning going so far left to get the Hippie folk, that he is un-electable.  

This is what the Democrats started with O. and now they are reaping what they sow.  

 

 

[Skoo]

I was under the impression he was wanting to put a major halt on travel/immigration until the terrorist problem was figured out, not an outright ban of Muslims, of which there are already millions in the country.  Also, I was under the impression it was a temporary thing.

Again, dumb idea, but bigotry?  I wouldn't say so.

Problem with that is, there's no such thing as "figuring out the terrorism problem".

That "temporary" ban could last decades or longer.

You can never completely rid the world of terrorism, which is the point of terrorism. There is no army to fight, no country to invade. Just small groups of people all over the place working independently of each other.

 

[timschochet]

It makes sense to me for a politician to say that.  The common denominator in San Bernadino, 9/11, the Boston Massacre, the London bombing, the Paris shooting, Belgium and even Pakistan the other day (not to mention the countless number of terrorist attacks that take place in the Middle East that aren't reported on) is Muslim extremism.  

Now what Trump said was ludicrous and impossible.  But I don't think it stems from bigotry, I think it stems from anger at violence.  I doubt many people in the US just woke up and decided to hate Muslims.  It's not like racism, where there's no reason behind it.  It's not anger against a group of people that can't change what they are, it's anger against a group of people that have a certain set of beliefs.

Also, I never knew Muslims were a minority group.  Aren't there 1.6 billion?  I suppose they are a minority group in the US, but it won't be too long before they are the majority religion worldwide, and I'd say they already are the majority worldwide in terms of active religious worshipers.

You've just described all bigotry. It never stems from no reason. There are always legitimate reasons for grievance  and anger. Bigotry starts when people let those emotions overcome their reason, and when they lazily apply traits they don't like to large groups of other people. 

 

[Rick James]

Obama put a temporary ban on Iraqi refugees a couple years ago. Jimmy Carter did the same w/ Iranians. 

I don't have any issue with a temporary ban on muslim immigrants.

 

[Eminence]

You've just described all bigotry. It never stems from no reason. There are always legitimate reasons for grievance  and anger. Bigotry starts when people let those emotions overcome their reason, and when they lazily apply traits they don't like to large groups of other people. 

Bigotry - intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Preventing your country from being victims of terrorist attacks is not bigotry. We don't reject Islam, we reject violence. If rejecting violence makes us bigots, I'll be a bigot all day.

 

[shader]

You've just described all bigotry. It never stems from no reason. There are always legitimate reasons for grievance  and anger. Bigotry starts when people let those emotions overcome their reason, and when they lazily apply traits they don't like to large groups of other people. 

Fair points.  I do think that if they had the power, a large group of people in this country would send all Muslims to the middle east...  and perhaps Trump is definitely pandering to those groups. 

 

[Eminence]

Obama put a temporary ban on Iraqi refugees a couple years ago. Jimmy Carter did the same w/ Iranians. 

I don't have any issue with a temporary ban on muslim immigrants.

Only someone out of touch with common sense would disagree with keeping bad guys out.

 

[timschochet]

A 75 year old British woman, who is a Muslim, wishes to come to Los Angeles to see her grandchildren for the first time. Is she to be allowed in, yes or no? And if the answer is no, is this bigotry, yes or no? 

 

[dfsguy]

A 75 year old British woman, who is a Muslim, wishes to come to Los Angeles to see her grandchildren for the first time. Is she to be allowed in, yes or no? And if the answer is no, is this bigotry, yes or no? 

Well if she made it to 75 without blowing herself up I think it'd safe

 

[Hoosier16]

More Americans have been killed since 9/11 by White Christian American Domestic Terrorists than by Muslims.

Funny, I haven't heard anyone talk about kicking them out.

Which isn't to say there aren't violent Muslims who wish us harm. And a lot of them.

But banning ALL people of a particular religion is the antithesis of everything we're supposed to stand for as a country.

"Those who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither" - Ben Franklin

Convenient to use "since" 9/11. Those 3000+ deaths are tough to overcome. In addition, it's interesting how you slipped the word "Christian" in there, suggesting that the domestic terrorist acts were religiously motivated. I'm assuming this is your source. If you click on each individual act, you'll see that few were religiously motivated. So, it doesn't really support your claim to kick out the Christians.

 

[Bucky86]

I disagree, most Christians do not walk around shoving the 10 Com in folks faces. In fact most Christians acknowledge the 10s and why they were created in the OT, a book which BTW most Evangelicals do not 100% support, many of them say they only implement the New Testament. 

We can have different opinions or feelings about this. I do understand your POV and I respect that.

Never happens

 

[Peak]

A 75 year old British woman, who is a Muslim, wishes to come to Los Angeles to see her grandchildren for the first time. Is she to be allowed in, yes or no? And if the answer is no, is this bigotry, yes or no? 

Does she have a VISA? Did she go through the proper channels to come into this country legally for the visit? If so, welcome.

If she smuggled herself via trucking container across a border somewhere and hitchhiked to LA then got caught without documentation - Have a safe trip back home.

 

[Higgs]

A 75 year old British woman, who is a Muslim, wishes to come to Los Angeles to see her grandchildren for the first time. Is she to be allowed in, yes or no? And if the answer is no, is this bigotry, yes or no? 

Yes, but only after a thorough frisking.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Obama put a temporary ban on Iraqi refugees a couple years ago. Jimmy Carter did the same w/ Iranians. 

I don't have any issue with a temporary ban on muslim immigrants.

Ah, yes. Who can forget about the First Amendment to the US Constitution and the protections it affords for the free exercise of nationality?  And let's go back even further, when the very first Europeans made their way to American soil in pursuit of the freedom to be British. I can't believe Obama and Carter would thumb their noses at such important values.

 

[lod01]

Well if she made it to 75 without blowing herself up I think it'd safe

Yeah, we will let her in.

 

[The Commish]

The thing that blows my mind about the Trump haters is that I think they all would consider Ted Cruz a better option...

Trump's an idiot, but Cruz is by far worse.  I don't know but a few who think Cruz is actually "better" than Trump.  I think MOST consider it an argument over who's the tallest midget.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

You've just described all bigotry. It never stems from no reason. There are always legitimate reasons for grievance  and anger. Bigotry starts when people let those emotions overcome their reason, and when they lazily apply traits they don't like to large groups of other people. 

I have not been immune to this during my lifetime, and likely will succumb yet again.  I find it a fault, one of many in my character.  Sadly, as I get older, I seem less intolerant of my own faults, less willing to spend the effort needed for change.  Still, with awareness of my shortcomings, even very minimal awareness; I suppose lies some hope of change.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Bigotry - intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Preventing your country from being victims of terrorist attacks is not bigotry. We don't reject Islam, we reject violence. If rejecting violence makes us bigots, I'll be a bigot all day.

Me, I have never totally rejected violence.  I am not so evolved.