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Official Donald Trump for President thread (3 Viewers)

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BassNBrew said:
:shock:
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 Not sure why it should shock you. I've written it before and I'm dead serious. Military people who endorse Trump will have to answer how they can support a man who has proposed: 

1. Torture

2. The deliberate murder of innocent relatives of terrorists

3. The plunder of resources of nations we invade

All 3 of these items are considered war crimes under the Geneva Convention. We are the nation that designated war crimes at the Nuremberg Trials which were later codified by Geneva (and, I am guessing, our uniform code of military justice). As several high ranking officers have already pointed out, our military has both a legal and moral duty to disobey Trump should he order any of these actions as President. But even now before he becomes President, it is both disgraceful and dishonorable for any military officer to publicly proclaim their support for Trump and in so doing help this man become CIC. 

 
"We're going to rebuild our inner cities because our African-American communities are absolutely in the worst shape that they've ever been in before. Ever. Ever. Ever," 

"You take a look at the inner cities, you get no education, you get no jobs, you get shot walking down the street. They're worse -- I mean, honestly, places like Afghanistan are safer than some of our inner cities, and I think it's resonating."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trump actually said these words.  For real.    

 
timschochet said:
 Not sure why it should shock you. I've written it before and I'm dead serious. Military people who endorse Trump will have to answer how they can support a man who has proposed: 

1. Torture

2. The deliberate murder of innocent relatives of terrorists

3. The plunder of resources of nations we invade

All 3 of these items are considered war crimes under the Geneva Convention. We are the nation that designated war crimes at the Nuremberg Trials which were later codified by Geneva (and, I am guessing, our uniform code of military justice). As several high ranking officers have already pointed out, our military has both a legal and moral duty to disobey Trump should he order any of these actions as President. But even now before he becomes President, it is both disgraceful and dishonorable for any military officer to publicly proclaim their support for Trump and in so doing help this man become CIC. 
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Well they would have the similar problem with Hillary given they are to serve with honor and integrity.  I'll give Hillary an edge here.  Now if I factor in Trump has just flapped his jaws and not committed unlawful acts like Hillary, that makes it pretty much a push.  

If they want to support Trump based on his trade policies or a host of other reasons instead of Hillary, given they are the ones in the line of fire, I'm not going to question their right to do that.  I'm sure they appreciate guys like you questioning their motives.

 
BassNBrew said:
Well they would have the similar problem with Hillary given they are to serve with honor and integrity.  I'll give Hillary an edge here.  Now if I factor in Trump has just flapped his jaws and not committed unlawful acts like Hillary, that makes it pretty much a push.  

If they want to support Trump based on his trade policies or a host of other reasons instead of Hillary, given they are the ones in the line of fire, I'm not going to question their right to do that.  I'm sure they appreciate guys like you questioning their motives.
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 I really don't care if they appreciate it  or not. 

And, without getting into the "false equivalency" argument, even if I accepted fully your characterization of Hillary Clinton, there is a significant difference. If Hillary is s corrupt liar she brings dishonor only to herself, not to the military who serve under her. But if Trump does the stuff he's promised he brings dishonor not only to himself but to our whole nation and specifically to any military officers who carry out his orders.  This is why in his case and his case alone they (the military) have a moral obligation not to support him. 

 
timschochet said:
 Hillary is s corrupt liar she brings dishonor

if Trump does the stuff he's promised 
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That pretty much sums it up.

In the first case Hillary has a history of being a corrupt liar in gov't capacities.

In the latter, Trump has as much of a chance of doing this stuff and Obama cutting our health insurance costs by $2400 a year.

 
Link
 
Kellyanne Conway said she's not worried about the Washington Post report that said on four occasions the Donald J. Trump Foundation cut checks to settle suits in a controversial and potentially illegal tactic, given that the foundation is funded primarily with other donors' money, not his own, according to the Post review of legal documents and interviews.
"Trump is using his charities to benefit his businesses, which is against the law," Washington Post reporter David Fahrenthold told CNN's John Berman and Kate Bolduan of his report.
The most substantial donation was $100,000 to Fisher House, a veterans' charity, as part of a settlement with the city of Palm Beach, Florida, home to Trump's Mar-a-Lago Club.
Conway defended the donation as a settlement because of a flag Trump wanted to raise at the Mar-a-Lago.
 

"I think this is a classic Donald Trump," she told CNN's Erin Burnett on "OutFront." "He wanted to raise the American flag as high as he possibly could over Mar-a-Lago. I think a lot of Americans at this point would applaud that. And of course the county said he couldn't do that, it had to be smaller, so they started assessing a $1,250 fine. So the way they wanted to settle it was for Trump to donate $100,000 to a veteran's group."
 
And another check for $158,000 was distributed from the foundation as a way for a Trump golf course to settle another lawsuit, according to the Post.
"I've been talking to the people who are responsible for the Trump Foundation to get some facts and some figures," she said. "It's very important for people to understand what happened in these cases. Donations went to veterans groups ... How did the Mar-a-Lago benefit from him giving $100,000 to veterans? The veterans benefited and I think that's great and I applaud him for doing that."
 
Burnett said: "Well, the business benefited by the lawsuit going away and being settled, right? That would be how the business benefited."
 
"Well, there are many lawsuits everyday against people ... I think you're making things up based on facts as they are not reported in this story, which also uses a lot of conditional phrasing, I'd like to point out," Conway said.
 
Conway also added that Trump frequently is "signing checks privately to help people" from his own bank account separate from the foundation,
"You can only imagine how many people have asked Mr. Trump for his time and his resources and his connections and his money privately, and he does that and he doesn't have cameras in there, it doesn't go through foundations," she said.
Burnett pointed that the public could verify those donations if Trump released his tax returns, to which Conway didn't directly respond.
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The media built him up and now they're going to tear him down.  Have a feeling it's going to be a very difficult 6 weeks or so for Donald.

 
bananafish said:
Posting anti-Hillary rants have earned me two timeouts on this board yet I would take her a thousand times over over this charlatan.

Hillary is disingenuous and power hungry. Trump is simply a con artist. It's a whole nother level of moral turpitude.
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EXfunckingxactly!

Hillary is Claire from House of Cards. Trump is sort of a combo of Frank Abagnale, Jr. and Tommy Flanagan

 
timschochet said:
 I really don't care if they appreciate it  or not. 

And, without getting into the "false equivalency" argument, even if I accepted fully your characterization of Hillary Clinton, there is a significant difference. If Hillary is s corrupt liar she brings dishonor only to herself, not to the military who serve under her. But if Trump does the stuff he's promised he brings dishonor not only to himself but to our whole nation and specifically to any military officers who carry out his orders.  This is why in his case and his case alone they (the military) have a moral obligation not to support him. 
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I have 5 members of my family still serving in the military, 1 a marine pilot, 1 an Air Force MP, and 3 Air Force flight personnel. Everyone of them and their friends are fully supportive of Trump. None of them respect Obama and believe Hillary would be just as bad if not worse.

 
jerry jones said:
I have 5 members of my family still serving in the military, 1 a marine pilot, 1 an Air Force MP, and 3 Air Force flight personnel. Everyone of them and their friends are fully supportive of Trump. None of them respect Obama and believe Hillary would be just as bad if not worse.
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I, for one, am fully supportive of and thankful for their service. I'm also proud of the rights they fight for to respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with their opinions. I'm also unsure what your point is. Plenty of misinformed ignorance in our armed forces. 

 
cstu said:
The media built him up and now they're going to tear him down.  Have a feeling it's going to be a very difficult 6 weeks or so for Donald.
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We'll see.  He's tough to get at because there's just so much material that it becomes background noise and the public and media can't focus on one or two things. 

Denial of Service attack is a great analogy for this weird phenomenon, but I saw possibly an even better one last night:  Three Stooges Syndrome.  It's perfect, right down to Trump as the most famous villain in American pop culture history.

"Mr. Burns, you are the sickest man in America.  You have everything."

"That sounds like bad news."

"Well you'd think so, but all of your diseases are in perfect balance."

 
I do get the sense that some of David Fahrenthold's incredible stuff on the Trump Foundation is starting to break into the public consciousness though.  He's on CNN and the Today Show today and the Trump campaign felt compelled to issue an angry non-denial of his reporting last night.

 
jerry jones said:
I have 5 members of my family still serving in the military, 1 a marine pilot, 1 an Air Force MP, and 3 Air Force flight personnel. Everyone of them and their friends are fully supportive of Trump. None of them respect Obama and believe Hillary would be just as bad if not worse.
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Please thank them for their service. Perhaps they're not aware that Trump would have them violate the Geneva Convention in the ways I listed. If they ARE aware of this, and either approve of it or are willing to tolerate it, then I am sad for them; they are dishonoring themselves. 

 
Stephen Hawking and 375 scientists write open letter condemning Trump for his ignorance on climate change and his stated intent to walk away from the Paris Accords: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/21/politics/scientists-open-letter-trump-climate-change/index.html?client=safari

I continue to believe this is a key issue which could have an impact on the election if it's raised during the debate. Most of the public, IMO, is unaware just how clueless Trump is about this issue. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I do get the sense that some of David Fahrenthold's incredible stuff on the Trump Foundation is starting to break into the public consciousness though.  He's on CNN and the Today Show today and the Trump campaign felt compelled to issue an angry non-denial of his reporting last night.
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Seeing a 4 foot painting is easy to understand.

I do find it funny a Fahrenthold's twitter follower found it on TripAdvisor after he asked for help.

 
timschochet said:
Please thank them for their service. Perhaps they're not aware that Trump would have them violate the Geneva Convention in the ways I listed. If they ARE aware of this, and either approve of it or are willing to tolerate it, then I am sad for them; they are dishonoring themselves. 
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:yawn:

 
Sammy3469 said:
Seeing a 4 foot painting is easy to understand.

I do find it funny a Fahrenthold's twitter follower found it on TripAdvisor after he asked for help.
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Yup. And giving a cancer charity other people's charitable donations, and then making them pay you to use your ballroom while you collect an award from them giving out other people's money is fairly easy to understand. As is using other  people's charitable donations to fight petty political battles. And lying to everyone about being a charitable guy is maybe the easiest to understand.  Bragging about being charitable when you're not is universally considered sleazy and dishonest.  And it ties to the refusal to release tax returns too.

That's why I think this stuff is the way to go.  Pointing out how dumb and insane he is on stuff like climate change seems like a weak strategy to me, because a lot of people are equally dumb and obsessed with ridiculous conspiracy theories when it comes to policy issues.

 
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TobiasFunke said:
Yup. And giving a cancer charity other people's charitable donations, and then making them pay you to use your ballroom while you collect an award from them giving out other people's money is fairly easy to understand. As is using other  people's charitable donations to fight petty political battles. And lying about being a charitable guy is maybe the easiest to understand. 

That's why I think this stuff is the way to go.  Pointing out how dumb and insane he is on stuff like climate change seems like a weak strategy to me, because a lot of people are equally dumb and obsessed with ridiculous conspiracy theories when it comes to policy issues.
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Yup. The vast majority of people don't understand climate change. But the vast majority do understand using charitable donations for personal gain is wrong.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Yup. And giving a cancer charity other people's charitable donations, and then making them pay you to use your ballroom while you collect an award from them giving out other people's money is fairly easy to understand. As is using other  people's charitable donations to fight petty political battles. And lying about being a charitable guy is maybe the easiest to understand. 

That's why I think this stuff is the way to go.  Pointing out how dumb and insane he is on stuff like climate change seems like a weak strategy to me, because a lot of people are equally dumb and obsessed with ridiculous conspiracy theories when it comes to policy issues.
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Well I hope you're right but I disagree. The polls suggest most of the public already has a dim view of Trump's character (and Hillary's). In both cases these attitudes are cemented and are not likely to change much before November. 

What IS fluid, at least in relative terms, is the public's lack of knowledge about Trump's specific policy proposals, because he flip flops so often and doesn't talk about them much beyond immigration and trade. That's why climate change could be a turning point, because the public is very concerned about this issue and largely on the side of the Democrats. 

 
Question for the Trumpkins:

Given that Trump likes to sue the #### out of people, why have there been no libel suits for all of this "false reporting"?

 
whitem0nkey said:
538 poll

They now have trump at 43%.

This making me real nervous, I feel like he is 2 out of 3 good debates away from the office.1 month ago he was at 11%. 
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It's terrifying.

I wonder what they're looking at. All the most recent info (the Pennsylania poll, the Florida poll, the Survey Monkey national poll) show Hillary rebounding. Maybe 538 hasn't taken that into account yet? I sure hope so.

 
timschochet said:
It's terrifying.

I wonder what they're looking at. All the most recent info (the Pennsylania poll, the Florida poll, the Survey Monkey national poll) show Hillary rebounding. Maybe 538 hasn't taken that into account yet? I sure hope so.
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Unfortunately, probably their page hits. Just like the rest of the media with their ratings obsession with Trump, the closer this race appears, the better for all of them financially. They're all guilty of it. CNN puts their little bites together promoting the debates, and they prop Trump up to appear like he's a respectable, accepted part of this, meanwhile he's a disgusting, bigoted con-artist who is appealing to the lowest of the low in this country. I don't blame Trump for it, I really don't. I blame the media and the dim-wits for allowing this charade and insult of a candidate to have gotten this far.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
Unfortunately, probably their page hits. Just like the rest of the media with their ratings obsession with Trump, the closer this race appears, the better for all of them financially. They're all guilty of it. CNN puts their little bites together promoting the debates, and they prop Trump up to appear like he's a respectable, accepted part of this, meanwhile he's a disgusting, bigoted con-artist who is appealing to the lowest of the low in this country. I don't blame Trump for it, I really don't. I blame the media and the dim-wits for allowing this charade and insult of a candidate to have gotten this far.
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I have no idea how accurate it is, but his adjustment for the trendline movement seems fairly large right now (2.2% against Clinton in FL for instance and 1.8% nationally).  I noticed it the other day.  It made sense after her health scare, but is still pricing that in even with polls that were in the field completely after that weekend.  

 
bananafish said:
I realize that it's mostly shtick in this thread but real life Trumpies have to be some of the most gullible people on Earth. There isn't one credible story of Trump showing any genuine integrity and 1000s of them conning people (and many of those were where he was trying to fake having integrity).

It really is sad the way he uses people. And they just line up for more.
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Sad and gullible really sum it up well.

I prefer to not think that people are spiteful hateful bigots who hate a lot of things like Mexicans, Muslims and Hillary and that's why they support him.

I really prefer not to think that.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
The plan is for rich people who want to deduct nanny services, listen to what they said closely. Damn right it excludes single mothers, and all families who take the standard deduction.
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While I agree with your larger point, saying that it would exclude people who take the standard deduction is not accurate as I understand it.  They pitched it as an above-the-line deduction so it would be available to people who take the standard deduction.  Of course many of those taxpayers wouldn't really benefit from it anyway because they already have no federal tax liability.  They would actually most likely be harmed in the end assuming this would mean the end of Child and Dependent Care Tax CREDIT, which is refundable.  

 
MattFancy said:
Yup. The vast majority of people don't understand climate change. But the vast majority do understand using charitable donations for personal gain is wrong.
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Which will make the mismanagement of the Haiti earthquake relief fund a compelling narrative 

 
Sammy3469 said:
I have no idea how accurate it is, but his adjustment for the trendline movement seems fairly large right now (2.2% against Clinton in FL for instance and 1.8% nationally).  I noticed it the other day.  It made sense after her health scare, but is still pricing that in even with polls that were in the field completely after that weekend.  
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It takes a few days for the 538 model to react to specific polls.  That's why Hillary's bounce after the convention was a steady climb up.  Silver's discussed this.  Let me see if I can find it.

 
timschochet said:
It's terrifying.

I wonder what they're looking at. All the most recent info (the Pennsylania poll, the Florida poll, the Survey Monkey national poll) show Hillary rebounding. Maybe 538 hasn't taken that into account yet? I sure hope so.
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Last week, we got a LOT of polls with bad numbers for Clinton. This week, numbers are better numbers for her, but not very many polls. Also, today we got polls showing Trump +3 in Nevada, +1 in North Carolina, TIED in Maine. A long way from being uniformly good for Clinton.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
The plan is for rich people who want to deduct nanny services, listen to what they said closely. Damn right it excludes single mothers, and all families who take the standard deduction.
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In that interview Ivanka did with Cosmo that she got up and walked away from because the questions got too hard, the Cosmo reporter also brought up that the policy proposal excluded same-sex couples, and was not flexible enough to accommodate the growing number of families where the father is the stay-at-home parent.  It would, however, subsidize families who hire a nanny or two to help out a stay-at-home mom.

 
rodg12 said:
It takes a few days for the 538 model to react to specific polls.  That's why Hillary's bounce after the convention was a steady climb up.  Silver's discussed this.  Let me see if I can find it.
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Which makes sense when you are dealing with big events with somewhat lasting effect.  It's a little different when your dealing with sharp moves that may be quickly fleeting.  

It's yet to be seen how big of an effect last weekend had, so I can understand why he has that correction and why it's so big.

 
cstu said:
The media built him up and now they're going to tear him down.  Have a feeling it's going to be a very difficult 6 weeks or so for Donald.
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They have been tearing him down for months. There have been probably 15 things that would have ended another politician. 

 
whitem0nkey said:
538 poll

They now have trump at 43%.

This making me real nervous, I feel like he is 2 out of 3 good debates away from the office.1 month ago he was at 11%. 
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It should definitely make us all nervous, but lemme try to help out just a little bit:

The principle behind 538 is that no one poll all that useful as a prediction tool, that it's better to aggregate all the polling information to come up with a few of where things are going.  They used to be the only ones doing that, but now there's others.  And I would argue that the same principle should apply to aggregators who analyze all the data and trends- you get a better picture if you look at all of them.  Of them, 538 is the lowest on Clinton's chances at the moment.  You can see them all here about halfway down the page in "win probability."  The others all have her between 63% and 81%.  The one with 81% is the Princeton Election Consortium, which has a very good reputation.

And as you'd expect, the betting markets put the numbers somewhere in the middle of all this too, making Clinton about a 2-1 favorite (66%). Although obviously they can also account for expected debate performances, or the increasingly slim possibility of America finally pulling its head out of its collective ###.

 
Nate Silver has Trump going from 3% chance of winning to 48% chance now.

And he's not spending any money...when is he going to start running some TV ads? 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I do get the sense that some of David Fahrenthold's incredible stuff on the Trump Foundation is starting to break into the public consciousness though.  He's on CNN and the Today Show today and the Trump campaign felt compelled to issue an angry non-denial of his reporting last night.
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Also helps that he did well in his TV appearances.  He didn't come off like some conspiracy theory nutjob, but as a smart person reporting the results of his research.  

The panel shows on CNN last night were fun.  Watching the Trump surrogates try to defend Trump's (indirect) claim that African-Americans have it worse now that during slavery or Jim Crow was a blast.  At one point, Jeffrey Gold tried to bring up Thomas Jefferson's ownership of slaves because Jefferson was a Democrat and so is Hillary Clinton.  

The surrogate the media hasn't tamed yet is Kellyanne Conway.  She has that Debate Club Champion ability to say 200-250 words without taking a breath, so stopping her after a lie comes off like interrupting her because she sounds like she's still mid-thought.

 
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