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***Official*** Dwayne Washington, RB, DET (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JFS171
- Start date
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
If Gordon went down do you think Woodhead would get increased carries? Nope... Role players are role players bruh.
Exactly, and his roll was Huge.
So why will it diminish? If anything it gets larger.
Jed
Footballguy
Crazysight
Footballguy
rjv
Footballguy
I went at 30% at first then 5 min before deadline I went to 35% and got him. I saw the next highest bid was 33%. It's a 16 team PPR league who I know most of the members and this league is very aware of the situations in the nfl.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Im starting him with confidence this week.
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Wow! I chose Washington over several others and got him on waivers for Woodhead. He's on my bench; I'd be happy to be able to use him on bye weeks.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Thats not important.
Thomas Rawls, D. Henry, Foster, Richard. Don't worry....Im stacked everywhere else.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I know everyones dying to k ow what my situation is... but in honestly I think it helps others make decisions knowing where everyone else is coming from. I've been back and forth with him and CAP. I'm starting him with some pretty good confidence honestly. Considering my options, I have no choice.
I am trying to see if I can pry Matthews for Tyrrell Williams. He wants Devante Parker, and I could probably get him for Parker but I am not so sure I like that trade.
So that's where I stand... Unless I can pull off a trade I have Washington starting and Bell coming back next week, and I'm in need of a bye week fill in. Hoping Washington can be that and I'm confident he will be by the time my two rbs have byes
I am trying to see if I can pry Matthews for Tyrrell Williams. He wants Devante Parker, and I could probably get him for Parker but I am not so sure I like that trade.
So that's where I stand... Unless I can pull off a trade I have Washington starting and Bell coming back next week, and I'm in need of a bye week fill in. Hoping Washington can be that and I'm confident he will be by the time my two rbs have byes
mquinnjr
Footballguy
In terms of market prices based on 4 leagues I'm in, one of which is dynasty, I bid $22 in a 12-team redraft PPR league and no one else bid. Picked up in a 10 team dynasty PPR with 25 man rosters, and an additional 2x 10 team standard redraft with 0 opposition. I love it, and talking to people in these leagues to get a pulse check everyone who has Riddick is/was doing cartwheels. All aboard
rjv
Footballguy
All aboard as well. I'm not feeling bad on how much I had to pay to get him but this is what FF is all about. Could be a flop OR could be the next CJ Anderson from 2014.In terms of market prices based on 4 leagues I'm in, one of which is dynasty, I bid $22 in a 12-team redraft PPR league and no one else bid. Picked up in a 10 team dynasty PPR with 25 man rosters, and an additional 2x 10 team standard redraft with 0 opposition. I love it, and talking to people in these leagues to get a pulse check everyone who has Riddick is/was doing cartwheels. All aboard
I originally had 25% on him on Monday until the news broke that AA was on IR. I increased to 35% and the next highest bid was 26%. Luckily i increased my bid and yes he is starting this week over an injured Foster, Charles, Dion Lewis and my late round RBs. 12 team 20 man roster does not leave a lot available on waivers. Most all other players mentioned to pick up this week were on teams already.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
On 90 career attempts Riddick is averaging 3.2 ypc.....Washington could fall forward for 3.2 ypc.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
So let me try and wrap my head around what is going thru the mindset of people...
-Riddick has been in the Detroit system for quite some time, has lots of game experience, was an integral part of the game plan going into the season to begin with, he's probably played 500-1,000 offensive snaps over his short career? He sort of played his way on to the field and also others around him got injured and fumbled, etc...
-Washington is a rookie drafted in the 7th round out of Washington stands 6'2/225 and runs a 4.44...I had to read that again and the light bulb just went POP, I got it and I now see what you all are looking at here...wow.
What is the story here? He had good stats in college on a per touch basis but he never carried the load. He won't be asked to do so here either. My guess is he will see a small share of the touches for a couple weeks but even a 65/35 split at some point, Detroit is all over the place as a team. 50/TD with a couple catches on a good week is my guess, wouldn't get overly excited. If you have suffered major injuries and many have, I can see trying to get him but this is no sure thing.
-Riddick has been in the Detroit system for quite some time, has lots of game experience, was an integral part of the game plan going into the season to begin with, he's probably played 500-1,000 offensive snaps over his short career? He sort of played his way on to the field and also others around him got injured and fumbled, etc...
-Washington is a rookie drafted in the 7th round out of Washington stands 6'2/225 and runs a 4.44...I had to read that again and the light bulb just went POP, I got it and I now see what you all are looking at here...wow.
What is the story here? He had good stats in college on a per touch basis but he never carried the load. He won't be asked to do so here either. My guess is he will see a small share of the touches for a couple weeks but even a 65/35 split at some point, Detroit is all over the place as a team. 50/TD with a couple catches on a good week is my guess, wouldn't get overly excited. If you have suffered major injuries and many have, I can see trying to get him but this is no sure thing.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yeah you have a reasonable analysis here. I think his floor is goal line carries and 30 yards. His ceiling is getting 60-70% of the rushing attempts as the split has been with Abdullah and Riddick. If Abdullah was valued as a potential RB2 moreso 3, I see no reason why Washington can't fill that roll eventually and even surpass it with 1- goal line carries and 2- return yards.
I said this in a different thread, if people think they have David Johnson they will be sorely disappointed. But he's not C-Mike, overhyped from the get go and will amount to JUG.
The attraction is goal line looks, so the potential to score every week, and the opportunity to become something greater with a larger share of the load. Ceiling is very high and floor still has him as a decent bye week fill in. Not to mention, Riddick could go down any time making him a true bell cow. Granted yes, anyone can go down any time, but Riddick isn't necessarily known for being ironman
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Watching Washington in the x-season and last game I find it hard to believe he lasted until the 7th rd and probably would have been undrafted had the Lions not taken him. Seems to have it all, power, size and speed and he falls forward, Abdulah was worthless in short yardage situation and he always got stuffed.
rjv
Footballguy
Totally agree MOP,but isn't that the entire point on playing FF? FF is never a sure thing, but sometimes you need to spend money to maybe get a chance on getting as close to a sure thing in FF. Besides CJ Anderson was undrafted, and look and him now and how many ppl whiffed on him in 2014, and didn't spend what they needed to to get him. Washington was drafted in the 7th und,from watching him I have no idea how he lasted that long,so diamonds can be found anywhere especially RBs.
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rjv
Footballguy
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
These are the type of guys that win leagues. Id much rather pay for upside than pay for Asiata for example. Every year there are guys that come out of nowhere.....maybe Washington is that guy maybe he isn't. Id rather pay to play than sit there with lots of FAB dollars at the end of the year wondering if I should spend 40% on turds.
He looks smooth. Few carries I watched he had patience following blocks and finding seams. If he can shoe ball security and pass protection he can be a bellow.
Comparing to David Johnson is fair. Similar metrics. Both played wr also. Both were not initial starters on their teams. Dwayne will need to Earn the trust of coaches. If he does no reason he can't perform like DJ. There have upgraded the line. They have multiple receiving threats and a good QB so no stacking the box against him. He is also a good pass catcher so can stay in on passing downs and doesn't tip defense off for run or passing play..
Remember Chris Johnson was the lead back last year for Arizona. DJ only took over due to injury.
Comparing to David Johnson is fair. Similar metrics. Both played wr also. Both were not initial starters on their teams. Dwayne will need to Earn the trust of coaches. If he does no reason he can't perform like DJ. There have upgraded the line. They have multiple receiving threats and a good QB so no stacking the box against him. He is also a good pass catcher so can stay in on passing downs and doesn't tip defense off for run or passing play..
Remember Chris Johnson was the lead back last year for Arizona. DJ only took over due to injury.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
And here is where I would have some differing POV. Abdullah was an incredible talent in college, IMO he was better than Duke Johnson coming out and so when I look at Washington and see that he didn't make it happen consistently in college but then he is expected in the NFL to just fill Abdullah's shoes.
I feel comfortable in saying that it might be a leap. I see some nice reception totals for a college RB in Washington however that could simply translate to 3rd down duties. At the same time Riddick doesn't have the position completely on lock down but I also think Detroit is planning on a major increase in his volume.
It's not as easy as filling Abdullah's shoes. I understand AA frustrated owners and now they are really upset because he is gone for the season.
Intangibles/TeaLeaves/MOPVooDoo...I have to admit I like the story. He can catch and that makes him valuable, he has speed and that makes him dangerous in open space, he has size and that makes him even more dangerous when he is trying to be brought down by a Corner/Safety. The door is open for someone to make a huge impact in the Lions' offense which has talent at the skill spots. Abdullah was a completely different back, a lot smaller IMO, perhaps Washington's size will work to his advantage. A poor man's Spencer Ware in the making?
Banger
Footballguy
That's the situation that I come back to as well. The guy has the measurables but supposedly it's other parts of his game that need work so it may take some time to gain the trust and work himself into the role like David Johnson. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and I expect that if he becomes a significant factor it's not going to happen this weekend but over the weeks to come. At the end of the day though it's really not that hard as his role will be dictated by what he does on the field on Sunday's. If he goes out there and makes plays and looks much better side by side in comparison to Riddick he'll garner more touches.
The exciting part for me is that he's the next man up with a good skill set on a team with some offensive talent....these are the exact situations that I try to line my roster with. Sometimes they hit, often times they don't but when they do they can win you a championship. Fingers crossed...
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Here is an interesting comparison:
Karlos Williams: 6'1", 230lbs, 40: 4.48, Bench: 16, 3 Cone: 7.16, Shuttle: 4.46 Source
Dwayne Washington: 6'2", 222lbs, 40: 4.44, Bench: 21, 3 Cone: 6.9, Shuttle: 4.24 Source
Now I'm not saying that Washington is going to put up 5.6 YPC & 7 TDs. I watched those games and Karlos would come in after Shady needed a breather and just had a knack for finding the end zone. He was fresh and had good burst. It is possible that Detroit could be in a similar situation depending on how the team uses the RBs (Riddick gets them down the field and Washington comes in for a breather as they approach the red zone). But that's expecting a lot. He seems to have pretty good vision from what little action I've seen of him, so it appears as though he is more than a freakish athlete and may actually be a football player.
Just thought I'd share the comparison. A lot of people were high on Karlos, until he got high, and fat.
Karlos Williams: 6'1", 230lbs, 40: 4.48, Bench: 16, 3 Cone: 7.16, Shuttle: 4.46 Source
Dwayne Washington: 6'2", 222lbs, 40: 4.44, Bench: 21, 3 Cone: 6.9, Shuttle: 4.24 Source
Now I'm not saying that Washington is going to put up 5.6 YPC & 7 TDs. I watched those games and Karlos would come in after Shady needed a breather and just had a knack for finding the end zone. He was fresh and had good burst. It is possible that Detroit could be in a similar situation depending on how the team uses the RBs (Riddick gets them down the field and Washington comes in for a breather as they approach the red zone). But that's expecting a lot. He seems to have pretty good vision from what little action I've seen of him, so it appears as though he is more than a freakish athlete and may actually be a football player.
Just thought I'd share the comparison. A lot of people were high on Karlos, until he got high, and fat.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yeah, I find myself agreeing with you on most of your posts, which makes me feel like maybe I do know what I'm talking about most of the time...And here is where I would have some differing POV. Abdullah was an incredible talent in college, IMO he was better than Duke Johnson coming out and so when I look at Washington and see that he didn't make it happen consistently in college but then he is expected in the NFL to just fill Abdullah's shoes.
I feel comfortable in saying that it might be a leap. I see some nice reception totals for a college RB in Washington however that could simply translate to 3rd down duties. At the same time Riddick doesn't have the position completely on lock down but I also think Detroit is planning on a major increase in his volume.
It's not as easy as filling Abdullah's shoes. I understand AA frustrated owners and now they are really upset because he is gone for the season.
Intangibles/TeaLeaves/MOPVooDoo...I have to admit I like the story. He can catch and that makes him valuable, he has speed and that makes him dangerous in open space, he has size and that makes him even more dangerous when he is trying to be brought down by a Corner/Safety. The door is open for someone to make a huge impact in the Lions' offense which has talent at the skill spots. Abdullah was a completely different back, a lot smaller IMO, perhaps Washington's size will work to his advantage. A poor man's Spencer Ware in the making?
I don't necessarily feel like college success breeds NFL success. It's all how you're used and the system. Teams should draft for their system but often times miss. One thing I find a problem for players going from college to pro is many college players survive on their superior athleticism in college and are just faster and quicker so they perform well. Get to the NFL and suddenly everyone is fast and quick and suddenly athleticism isn't enough. Maybe this is the block Abdullah is experiencing transitioning to the NFL. It could be how he's used as well; maybe Detroit doesn't use him to his full effectiveness. SD uses Woodhead to his 100% capability which is why he is/was so effective.
Washington seems like a potential exciting player. Every year there are diamonds that come out of the late rounds or being undrafted and this has the looks of one of those guys. If he falls flat on his face at least I tried and I'm no worse than I was the minute Abdullah hurt his foot.
To respond to someone earlier who asked me about the FAAB dollars... I got him for free and in hindsight I wish I put any money on him. The reason I do this is because everyone in my league hoards money and then you have people putting 90-100% down on a guy who fills in for another who goes down right before fantasy playoffs. I know my league and I know most people are 18 hours behind me and I was pretty confident I knew more about Abdullah's status with my medical background in sports medicine than the average Joe in my league. I was dumb not to put more on him because I could have lost him if someone put down 1%... what can I say, I like to live on the wild side.
JFS171
Footballguy
Posting it one last time for effect... it's not just the size and speed. It's the size, speed, and AGILITY in that package of size and speed. The decision tree, based solely on combine metrics gives him a 78% chance of finishing as a top-12 RB1 in PPR in his first 3 years in the league. Think about that... now add in the situation -- offense is rolling, his biggest competition for inside carries just went out for the season. His other primary competition on the team has 90 CAREER CARRIES (that's it) with a career YPC of 3.2. Riddick's career high in carries came last season with a whopping 43. He's already halfway there this season through two games.
I have no doubt that Riddick gets more work, but I also don't think the Lions really want to pound Riddick between the tackles. Abdullah got 17 touches in the first game -- a track meet against Indy. He had 6 touches in the first half against Tennessee before getting injured (on 4 total possessions for the Lions). My guess moving forward, initially, is that Washington gets somewhere between 10-15 touches (8-12 carries & 2-3 catches) plus goal line work while Riddick gets 12-15 touches (8-10 carries, 5-6 catches). Over time, that may morph into Riddick keeping his 5-7 catches but only 5-8 carries, while Washington starts getting 15-18 carries and 4-5 passes himself.
The thing to keep in mind here... Washington is a *freak* athlete who's looked very good in his limited time on the field. If he explodes, it's impossible to put that genie back in the bottle. All it takes is a few chunk plays in his early opportunities before he starts getting more and more work and you end up with a bell cow back. Sure David Johnson is the upside here, but the downside is a committee back on a good offense with goal line carries. That's pretty good... and if Riddick goes down, holy cow.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
JFS171
Footballguy
VaTerp
Footballguy
Obviously we don't know yet what kind of player Washington will be. And I would argue that we are still figuring out what kind of player Ware is. That said, it seems a bit limiting to say "a poor man's Spencer Ware" even with the ridiculous point per touch pace that Ware is producing right now.. A poor man's Spencer Ware in the making?
Also, in terms of comparison I think the combine analysis from below I found from a Dwayne Washington google search that led me to a Reddit thread is very interesting:
David Johnson NFL.com Combine Analysis
STRENGTHS Looks good on the hoof. Possesses a big body and falls forward for additional yards. Smooth pass-catcher out of the backfield and is a mismatch for linebackers. Has been a consistent weapon out of the backfield while in college. Uses an effective jump cut on inside runs to change direction and can string a couple of them together on the same run. Has good long speed when he gets into space.
WEAKNESSES Long-strider. Doesn't always look like he has the foot quickness to burst through the hole consistently. Allows defenders to get a hand on him through the replace and isn't a classic finisher. Tends to hit the brakes too hard in order to make his cuts. Questionable vision. Looks to make cuts instead of keeping the run play-side. Scouts want to see more fire in his play demeanor. Play strength and blocking are problems. Goes down too easily.
Dwayne Washington NFL.com Combine Analysis
STRENGTHS Possesses rare combination of size and speed. Flashes the juice once he hits it onto second level. Has a rush of 68 yards or more in each of his three seasons despite limited carries. Has enough early wiggle. Has athletic traits that cannot be ignored. Former wide receiver with ability to destroy linebackers matched up on him out of the backfield. Able to threaten the seam as pass catcher.
WEAKNESSES Long strider. Struggles to make quick, decisive cuts. Poor feel for the right running track on stretch plays. Looks for cutback lanes that arent there. Will run up blockers back and has very little feel between tackles. Scatback who fails to run to his size. Plagued by fumbles putting ball on the ground 10 times in 227 career carries. Lost starting job this season and missed final three games due to injury. Has struggled to stay healthy during time at Washington.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I just made him my new RB6 on the end of my bench. Had to cut one Washington to get another Washington.
VaTerp
Footballguy
FTR- I'm not saying I think Washington will produce on a level with David Johnson or Spencer Ware or anyone else. I would not be surprised by any number of outcomes both short and long term.
But I am more than intrigued. I'm trying to remember an unhyped college RB whose game speed and athleticism stood out like Williams highlight reel does to me. The last one I can think of is Chris Johnson.
I think this kid can be special and too many people are caught up on where someone is drafted. He likely slid to the 7th round for a number of reasons, health being chief among them. But again I see a special runner here and Im excited to see what he does with this opportunity.
But I am more than intrigued. I'm trying to remember an unhyped college RB whose game speed and athleticism stood out like Williams highlight reel does to me. The last one I can think of is Chris Johnson.
I think this kid can be special and too many people are caught up on where someone is drafted. He likely slid to the 7th round for a number of reasons, health being chief among them. But again I see a special runner here and Im excited to see what he does with this opportunity.
Dismattle
Footballguy
https://youtu.be/2V16Z8Xw5Ts
I like the extra gear.. I seem to see clips where he has more than a step in distance.. I believe in the Pros he wont have that extra step, but theres still extra room..
Skip to 2:44 youll see him basically gas the defenders who appeared to be gaining an angle at one point
Id suggest reading the rest of the posts, and locate Waldmans video (if needed)
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I come away with a few takes from that video.
1. Those holes he is running thru on some of those monster runs, he is untouched and so I just am saying that he isn't breaking tackles and you typically need to do that in the NFL. Not saying he can't.
2. He is not a natural runner, he kind of looks like a WR getting an endaround in his approach towards the line. I'm not sure he has the natural patience a RB typically would have.
3. I can see where Detroit can exploit him on the passing game. He looks very good destroying a LB in coverage or blowing by a Safety or you can see what he does. He will make a mint int he passing game if they can get him into space. This guy might be big but he doesn't crave contact.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I'd take a look at the cutups in SSND film room thread. I think you'll see both patience in letting his blockers setup and some breaking arm tackles.
I've been tempering enthusiasm on this guy from day one, but I'm starting to come around. Getting caught up in the hype. He's got some talent, now it's meeting the opportunity.
Also, my backs are Freeman/Ingram/Duke/Henry so I'm definitely receptive to the idea of something miraculous going down. So there's that.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
I follow the Pac 12 pretty closely and I don't remember him at Washington. This sounds like the second coming of CMike. That being said, I stashed him on the end of my bench in a couple leagues because of this thread.
Dismattle
Footballguy
So ya say hes gifted, but may need coaching up?
I aint gonna argue that a bit..
Would ya like to see him learn on the job is maybe the question
Or taking the field in 3rd n long situations only
btw Gale Sayers was a long strider..
I know some may be gringing when they hear long strider
I aint gonna argue that a bit..
Would ya like to see him learn on the job is maybe the question
Or taking the field in 3rd n long situations only
btw Gale Sayers was a long strider..
I know some may be gringing when they hear long strider
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Only played three years and the Huskies sucked so people probably don't remember anyone from those years.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I love the hype. I have no idea how Washington is going to do. Is Detroit going to give him a fair amount of touches? Will Washington produce?
I snagged Washington off of waivers yesterday and am still thrilled. He is staying on my bench this week. The details if anyone cares: McCoy and Gio are starting. Ajayi and Washington sit.
I snagged Washington off of waivers yesterday and am still thrilled. He is staying on my bench this week. The details if anyone cares: McCoy and Gio are starting. Ajayi and Washington sit.
VaTerp
Footballguy
Like Waldman said in the RSP, there are acquirable skills for RBs and it seems to me that most of the questions on Washington are things that can be coached and acquired.
What a RB cant acquire is the elite size, speed, and athleticism combo that Washington has.
To MOP's comment that he's not a natural runner. I can see how people would feel that way. But I don't agree. He has a long stride and is a bit upright but to me he looks like a natural runner with pretty good instincts.
What a RB cant acquire is the elite size, speed, and athleticism combo that Washington has.
To MOP's comment that he's not a natural runner. I can see how people would feel that way. But I don't agree. He has a long stride and is a bit upright but to me he looks like a natural runner with pretty good instincts.
Vicktimized
Footballguy
I don't think his running ability is in great question here. He's an unknown, and no sure thing, but he looks like a guy who will be productive if he gets the carries.
The question that will make or break him is exactly how raw is he in terms of the other elements of playing running back? Can he pass protect? Does he run within the scheme? Because last season proved these things are of pretty major importance to Caldwell given how stubborn Detroit was with Bell last season. It's one thing to be active on game day and get some situational carries. It's another thing completely to be the guy trusted to do it all. This is also a pass-heavy team, so while I'd add Washington everywhere I can since his upside warrants it, I also won't be shocked to see Zenner get his share of the action, too.
The question that will make or break him is exactly how raw is he in terms of the other elements of playing running back? Can he pass protect? Does he run within the scheme? Because last season proved these things are of pretty major importance to Caldwell given how stubborn Detroit was with Bell last season. It's one thing to be active on game day and get some situational carries. It's another thing completely to be the guy trusted to do it all. This is also a pass-heavy team, so while I'd add Washington everywhere I can since his upside warrants it, I also won't be shocked to see Zenner get his share of the action, too.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
You do know that Washington is a far superior receiver to zenner?? He also passed him on the depth chart in just a few weeks.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Jed
Footballguy
Dismattle
Footballguy
Thats the perfect move.. right thing to do!
Its the injuries and "under performers" that may lead some of us astray..
Guys like Hill are playing their home opener, but its Denver! (Fask)
Cobb hasnt had a decent game..
list goes on...
We do know he is supposed too see some gametime..
Think hes the type who only need 10-12 opportunity's
