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Official EJ Manuel (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter PinkydaPimp
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cstu
Footballguy
You're not seriously going claim that Eli had an incredible college career, are you?
You're not seriously going to claim that having comparable stats means they are comparable QB's, are you?You're not seriously going claim that Eli had an incredible college career, are you?
cstu
Footballguy
No, obviously Eli was a better QB in college but there were still a lot of questions about him. If his name wasn't Manning there's no way he goes before Rivers and Roethlisberger IMO.You're not seriously going to claim that having comparable stats means they are comparable QB's, are you?You're not seriously going claim that Eli had an incredible college career, are you?
Then what's the point in throwing out the stats if you agree that Eli was obviously better?No, obviously Eli was a better QB in college but there were still a lot of questions about him. If his name wasn't Manning there's no way he goes before Rivers and Roethlisberger IMO.You're not seriously going to claim that having comparable stats means they are comparable QB's, are you?You're not seriously going claim that Eli had an incredible college career, are you?
Where he would have been drafted if his name wasn't Manning is debatable, but entirely irrelevant here. All 3 of them were better than EJ.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Can we just agree that EJ was not, nor is he likely ever to be, as good as a potential hall of fame qb and two other above average franchise QBs?Then what's the point in throwing out the stats if you agree that Eli was obviously better? Where he would have been drafted if his name wasn't Manning is debatable, but entirely irrelevant here. All 3 of them were better than EJ.No, obviously Eli was a better QB in college but there were still a lot of questions about him. If his name wasn't Manning there's no way he goes before Rivers and Roethlisberger IMO.You're not seriously going to claim that having comparable stats means they are comparable QB's, are you?You're not seriously going claim that Eli had an incredible college career, are you?
Which has not a lot to do with whether he should start in Buffalo this year. I suspect the staff would like him to win the job but they're prepared for him not to.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Rex is going to ruin this kid like he has every other Qb he's ever touched.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
For me, it's because you are claiming these guys are somehow a quantum leap above Manuel in terms of their early prospects. Eli's college passing stats were better, but not in a different time zone. Now his NFL stats are in the same area as well. Stats don't tell the whole story, which you rightly point out. But the burden of proof is on the guy making the big claim. No one is disagreeing that the other guys were better pure throwing prospects heading into their careers. But to say they aren't in the same ballpark is a stretch, and the point that some guys improve dramatically given a little time and development is solid IMO. Manuel had further to go, it makes sense that it might take a little more time, which he really hasn't gotten.Then what's the point in throwing out the stats if you agree that Eli was obviously better?No, obviously Eli was a better QB in college but there were still a lot of questions about him. If his name wasn't Manning there's no way he goes before Rivers and Roethlisberger IMO.You're not seriously going to claim that having comparable stats means they are comparable QB's, are you?You're not seriously going claim that Eli had an incredible college career, are you?
Where he would have been drafted if his name wasn't Manning is debatable, but entirely irrelevant here. All 3 of them were better than EJ.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I gotta say, I don't like his chances. I mean to be honest, I think he's going to follow the Christian Ponder career path of being overdrafted, and then flaming out. And to be quite honest, the suckness of Ponder and Manuel is ruining my confidence in Winston as well.
Let's see- one guy was the Maxwell Award winner (best overall player in college football), the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award winner, was the conference offensive player of the year, was 3rd in the Heisman voting, and was the top prospect and #1 overall draft pick in one of the best QB draft classes in history. The other won zero awards of note and wasn't even on the radar for most, and despite being severely over-drafted by Buffalo, was widely considered not the top prospect in one of the worst QB draft classes in history.For me, it's because you are claiming these guys are somehow a quantum leap above Manuel in terms of their early prospects. Eli's college passing stats were better, but not in a different time zone. Now his NFL stats are in the same area as well. Stats don't tell the whole story, which you rightly point out. But the burden of proof is on the guy making the big claim. No one is disagreeing that the other guys were better pure throwing prospects heading into their careers. But to say they aren't in the same ballpark is a stretch, and the point that some guys improve dramatically given a little time and development is solid IMO. Manuel had further to go, it makes sense that it might take a little more time, which he really hasn't gotten.Then what's the point in throwing out the stats if you agree that Eli was obviously better?No, obviously Eli was a better QB in college but there were still a lot of questions about him. If his name wasn't Manning there's no way he goes before Rivers and Roethlisberger IMO.You're not seriously going to claim that having comparable stats means they are comparable QB's, are you?You're not seriously going claim that Eli had an incredible college career, are you?
Where he would have been drafted if his name wasn't Manning is debatable, but entirely irrelevant here. All 3 of them were better than EJ.
I'm not even a big Eli fan, but they weren't in the same ballpark as prospects.
cstu
Footballguy
So ridiculous that he won those awards, must be nice to have the last name Manning. Both Rivers and Roethlisberger destroyed him in every category. 3rd in Heisman despite both of those guys being more deserving.
FUBAR
Footballguy
has a nope - http://www.hustlebelt.com/2012/7/16/3161704/heisman-trophy-winners-mid-american-conference
Who's this topic about anyway?
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He was playing with a bunch of nobodies in the SEC, and the only time since 1963 they have even shared a piece of the conference title was that season under Eli. But all that matters is the stats!
Rational people can at least debate the merits of Eli vs. Rivers vs. Ben coming out, but no one in their right mind would put EJ near that group. After all, that is the topic of this thread.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Probably just offseason optimistic talk, but Sammy Watkins was speaking very highly of Manuel today. Said that his footwork is "completely different" and several times said that EJ is "his guy." We shall see.
But if EJ were to take a big step forward, that would be a huge plus for the Bills.
@JoeBuscaglia: #Bills Sammy Watkins: EJ is my guy. I believe in him 100%
@JoeBuscaglia: #Bills Sammy Watkins: EJ is stepping up. He's come back and worked on his footsteps. A different guy.
But if EJ were to take a big step forward, that would be a huge plus for the Bills.
@JoeBuscaglia: #Bills Sammy Watkins: EJ is my guy. I believe in him 100%
@JoeBuscaglia: #Bills Sammy Watkins: EJ is stepping up. He's come back and worked on his footsteps. A different guy.
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Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Sammy was also quoted as saying whether Manuel starts or is the back up he will have improved as a player. So I am not entirely sure what to make of that talk. He is endorsing Manuel like a good teammate should do, but the proof will come on the field.
cstu
Footballguy
OC Zed
Footballguy
Improving his footwork could go a long way to improving his accuracy. If that happens, Manuel suddenly becomes a solid NFL quarterback. The guy already has a quick release, good arm and showed a lot of improvement last year in reading through his progressions. If he eliminates the buckshot throws, then he's a whole new player.GroveDiesel said:
ETA: IF
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Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I am not disputing he could still improve. But he was not good at reading through his progressions in year 1 and it did not improve in year 2. It was one of the reasons he was benched.
FUBAR
Footballguy
There's clearly reason to be skeptical but maybe riding the bench last year will help. He's cheap enough in most leagues to take a chance on.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I'm not sure that's completely true. I think there were quite a few times where he went through progressions and simply made the wrong decision. That mostly occurred when he seemed too scared to throw it to a receiver downfield and instead settled for something short and very conservative. This article has several examples of that: http://billsmafia.com/2015/04/09/an-all-22-breakdown-of-buffalo-bills-qb-ej-manuel-does-he-have-what-it-takes/
That's exactly what frustrated Bills fans over and over last year. He would see a downfield receiver with a step on his guy but move on to his next read and dump it down. So the big questions are: 1) Was that from EJ, or was it because the coaching staff scared him into being overly conservative? And 2) Can it be corrected?
For #1, I think looking at the overall gameplans, Marrone's personality, his penchant for punting inside the opponent 40 even late in the game with short yardage to go, and everything we've heard about Marrone since he left; I think the odds are pretty good that a lot of the blame for Manuel's reluctance to "let it rip" lies on Marrone.
That being said, there's no way to know if Manuel can overcome that. That whole process is about being confident and not thinking too much during a play. A QB has to trust himself and trust what he sees based off of his understanding of the offense and his film work of the defense. All of that is a combination of confidence and what is commonly referred to as "slowing the game down."
When EJ played in the 2 minute drill, that was often when you saw him at his best. Suddenly he looked confident and threw the ball with confidence. He didn't have time to overthink things, he just went out and threw the ball. If he really does improve his footwork and can play with that type of confidence all the time, I think he really could improve into a competent QB.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Thanks for the reply.
I would argue that looking off open WR's to throw check downs and dump offs is not a positive in year 1 to year 2 and I would not mention it as a positive to say he better went through his progressions which I really don't think was the case.
I read the article and watched the clips. In those highlighted clips he is only able to look competent when he is throwing to his first read. It is something that is apparent when watching him through the start of his career both in year 1 and year 2.
I think he has looked good at time in 2 min drill but once again it is due to hit my first read or tuck it and gain some yardage with my legs. I think he has the ability to be an ok NFL qb, but there is a ton of work and development that needs to happen still.
cstu
Footballguy
Manuel trade market, good one.
Steve Grogan
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
EJ Manuel calls Buffalo Bills' offense 'sweet'
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492465/article/ej-manuel-calls-buffalo-bills-offense-sweet
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492465/article/ej-manuel-calls-buffalo-bills-offense-sweet
cstu
Footballguy
schooner44
Footballguy
EJ can improve his footwork and throwing motion all he wants. That will help him overall but his lack of accuracy isn't his biggest issue (as most perople like to say). His lack of field vision is, by far and away, his biggest detriment as a QB. In his 4 games started last year, he could've went 4-0 if his field vision was just slightly better. There are things he should see and doesn't and things he doesn't see but he should (insert JJ Watt joke here).
My prediction is that either EJ wins the job out of camp or gets cut. If doesn't win the job, I think Cassel does and Tyrod Taylor steps into the backup role.
My prediction is that either EJ wins the job out of camp or gets cut. If doesn't win the job, I think Cassel does and Tyrod Taylor steps into the backup role.
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Casting Couch
Footballguy
And your OC has extensive experience with vision lacking QBs. See Kaepernick, Colin.
cstu
Footballguy
I tend to agree with this. EJ was a boom/bust player when he can into the league and if he can't show improvement going into his 3rd year I think they will give up the experiment.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Agreed. I'm not holding my breath on his accuracy improving, but if he'd just throw the ball and let the play-makers go get it, that could do a lot for his confidence/production.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Trade block.
For a former first round pick who couldn't beat out cassell.
if he doesn't win the job, nobody is trading for him. Someone will sign him after the bills drop him (if he isn't starting).
Faust
MVP
Is Matt Cassel destined for backup role with the Bills?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492925/article/is-matt-cassel-destined-for-backup-role-with-the-bills
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492925/article/is-matt-cassel-destined-for-backup-role-with-the-bills
FUBAR
Footballguy
lod01
Footballguy
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Carucci is completely guessing here. This is a non story as there is going to be a competition for the job. Rex will play the guy that he feels will give him the best chance to win the game. That may be Manuel but there is so much to play out that Carucci making a claim at this stage one way or the other is about as valuable as you or I guessing as to who will start week 1.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I guess I don't get the hate on Manuel. Through four weeks (when he got pulled) he had more fantasy points than NFL starters:
Geno
Tannehill
Cam
Carr
And outside of Geno nobody is calling for any of those heads. Maybe he didn't look great but he wasn't Manziel either. Heck he's younger than Cam or Tannehill and they are both very safe. I know it's fantasy point and that doesn't matter to NFL coaches, but let's face it both coaches and fantasy owners love yards, touchdowns, and rushing. He was doing at a decent level for a guy with less than 16 NFL starts.
Geno
Tannehill
Cam
Carr
And outside of Geno nobody is calling for any of those heads. Maybe he didn't look great but he wasn't Manziel either. Heck he's younger than Cam or Tannehill and they are both very safe. I know it's fantasy point and that doesn't matter to NFL coaches, but let's face it both coaches and fantasy owners love yards, touchdowns, and rushing. He was doing at a decent level for a guy with less than 16 NFL starts.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If I was an NFL quarterback, I wouldn't want to hang my hat on "better than Geno Smith."Sabertooth said:
I'm hopeful that EJ will still develop, and I think the Bills would be foolish to completely give up on him given that they don't have Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young sitting on their bench. But the odds are very clearly against that at this point, and I don't think it qualifies as "hate" to acknowledge as much.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Hate is a figure of speech. Anyway it just seems premature to give up on a guy so quickly. Are the jags giving up on Bortles already?
Zyphros
Footballguy
I don't get the hate either. My old roommate was a huge Bills fan so we watched all their games during the EJ Manuel era and he didn't all that bad. Sure he dinked and dunked a lot and the INT's were a bit high, but there wasn't anything glaring that needed to be fixed. He could have been developed better and sat at first but he didn't look as bad as people are saying. This year is important for him to show progress, and you never know with the Bills. They could dump him early and we may never know how good he might have been, either way it's way too premature to be talking about letting him go.
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