I think I know who you are talking about - because there is one person, as I mentioned, that might get into the conversation. However he wouldnt have made it to me later, or way too many people sleepin on the job.I do think the general talent pool at 3rd is as short as any position. (Then again, ive been wrong beforeNot a consensus, and I will debate this, but only once the guy that I think is the best ever at 3rd is taken.Mike Schmidt (write up)
Best Third Baseman EVER. (is it safe to say this is consensus?)
They have a lot of metrics on baseball-reference.com. I don't know about a quick formula as far as HRs, but they've got comparing OPS and ERA across eras down to a science.Who are Davearm and The Fanatic? The funny thing was I thought about today's numbers when typing out Schmidts. I mean, what would he (and any other number of players) have done today? Likewise, a player in the dead ball era would have more power numbers now. Players in the late '60's will have an even arger disadvantage batting in general. Players that have the benefit of 90's-now have inflated offense stats... but the pitching numbers are so skewed.Sure hope Davearm and The Fanatic don't read this thread.If baseball is really serious about their steroid policy this year, I'm really interested in seeing what Bonds can do when off the juice. In my opinion, what he does this year defines his career. If he even does .300/27/90 I will back the accomplishments of his roid years and never mention them again.Mike Schmidt - best 3rd baseman ever, and someone who hit 550 homers in an era where batters were not favored (8 home run crowns). 10 Straight Gold gloves at the hot corner is nice, too.
Is there someone objectively, or a source online that can give us a "clue" what the sabre metrics are: Something like:
30 HRs in 1930 vs 60 vs 80 vs 00
Do the same for average, era and such. Obviously the formulas exist because whatifsports and such using one or another. It would be nice to have an agreement on a guy that hit 30 hrs in an era that would equate to 50 today to use as example without the certain to occur "you cant just add 20 more hrs to a guy.. he hit what he hit"
Anyone know of such a source?
I disagree completely. I mean, do you know how FAT John Goodman is? No f'n way.From what I've read, Babe was a lot better of a baserunner than people realize.Because Ruth can't run. Bonds would be a good choice, but I just can't stand him.I understand that..I just don't understand how you see Koufax as more of a cornerstone to that team than Ruth is.I am building a team, not a Hall of Fame. Why have 16 TEAMS if just want to know who are the best players in order?Koufax was a machine in his prime, one of the top-3 lefties ever, and put up some absolutely disgusting stats..but he wasn't the second-best player of all-time. You could argue he wasn't even the second-best lefty of all-time. Spock had Mays AND Ruth to choose from there and really screwed the pooch.
Perhaps, but before HR's became popular with Ruth's arrival, baseball was played much, much differently. I was predicting that the 16 owners would pick big parks, and for the most part I was right, so I'm valuing players that can play baseball pre 1920's style when the ball parks were huge. While Ruth could still jack em out of the big parks, there's no way he puts up the career he had without all the owners bringing in the fences like the did in the 20's, so I didn't value him as the best.From what I've read, Babe was a lot better of a baserunner than people realize.Because Ruth can't run. Bonds would be a good choice, but I just can't stand him.I understand that..I just don't understand how you see Koufax as more of a cornerstone to that team than Ruth is.I am building a team, not a Hall of Fame. Why have 16 TEAMS if just want to know who are the best players in order?Koufax was a machine in his prime, one of the top-3 lefties ever, and put up some absolutely disgusting stats..but he wasn't the second-best player of all-time. You could argue he wasn't even the second-best lefty of all-time. Spock had Mays AND Ruth to choose from there and really screwed the pooch.
:rotflmao:I disagree completely. I mean, do you know how FAT John Goodman is? No f'n way.From what I've read, Babe was a lot better of a baserunner than people realize.Because Ruth can't run. Bonds would be a good choice, but I just can't stand him.I understand that..I just don't understand how you see Koufax as more of a cornerstone to that team than Ruth is.I am building a team, not a Hall of Fame. Why have 16 TEAMS if just want to know who are the best players in order?Koufax was a machine in his prime, one of the top-3 lefties ever, and put up some absolutely disgusting stats..but he wasn't the second-best player of all-time. You could argue he wasn't even the second-best lefty of all-time. Spock had Mays AND Ruth to choose from there and really screwed the pooch.
They had a spirited debate on who was the best 3Bman ever, and Mike Schmidt provided fodder for both sides.Who are Davearm and The Fanatic?
Yeah, I did see those stats there. But we so often say 30 HRs for 5 straight years. or, hit 40 three times. Well, if that is in 1964, 67, and 69 that is like hitting 50+ now... if you get my drift. Basically, I do not want to go to the "My player would be comparable to Y player from today or better" when I know someone (err, NipsThey have a lot of metrics on baseball-reference.com. I don't know about a quick formula as far as HRs, but they've got comparing OPS and ERA across eras down to a science.Who are Davearm and The Fanatic? The funny thing was I thought about today's numbers when typing out Schmidts. I mean, what would he (and any other number of players) have done today? Likewise, a player in the dead ball era would have more power numbers now. Players in the late '60's will have an even arger disadvantage batting in general. Players that have the benefit of 90's-now have inflated offense stats... but the pitching numbers are so skewed.Sure hope Davearm and The Fanatic don't read this thread.If baseball is really serious about their steroid policy this year, I'm really interested in seeing what Bonds can do when off the juice. In my opinion, what he does this year defines his career. If he even does .300/27/90 I will back the accomplishments of his roid years and never mention them again.Mike Schmidt - best 3rd baseman ever, and someone who hit 550 homers in an era where batters were not favored (8 home run crowns). 10 Straight Gold gloves at the hot corner is nice, too.
Is there someone objectively, or a source online that can give us a "clue" what the sabre metrics are: Something like:
30 HRs in 1930 vs 60 vs 80 vs 00
Do the same for average, era and such. Obviously the formulas exist because whatifsports and such using one or another. It would be nice to have an agreement on a guy that hit 30 hrs in an era that would equate to 50 today to use as example without the certain to occur "you cant just add 20 more hrs to a guy.. he hit what he hit"
Anyone know of such a source?
I agree. There were alot of years that third base is where you put your lumbering oaf with a strong arm, quick hands, but couldn't go one step to his right or left. The real studs at 3B will shrink up really quick.I think I know who you are talking about - because there is one person, as I mentioned, that might get into the conversation. However he wouldnt have made it to me later, or way too many people sleepin on the job.I do think the general talent pool at 3rd is as short as any position. (Then again, ive been wrong beforeNot a consensus, and I will debate this, but only once the guy that I think is the best ever at 3rd is taken.Mike Schmidt (write up)
Best Third Baseman EVER. (is it safe to say this is consensus?))
Great pick.GOD ####### DAMNIT!#######IT!UCONN selects:Tris Speaker-OFI didn't see that Pedro selection coming..looking forward to seeing the hot coals brought out for that.
, Thanks.Then again, Ruth absolutely changed the game. That is why he may be the one position player that towers above all other players and pitchers alike.Perhaps, but before HR's became popular with Ruth's arrival, baseball was played much, much differently. I was predicting that the 16 owners would pick big parks, and for the most part I was right, so I'm valuing players that can play baseball pre 1920's style when the ball parks were huge. While Ruth could still jack em out of the big parks, there's no way he puts up the career he had without all the owners bringing in the fences like the did in the 20's, so I didn't value him as the best.From what I've read, Babe was a lot better of a baserunner than people realize.Because Ruth can't run. Bonds would be a good choice, but I just can't stand him.I understand that..I just don't understand how you see Koufax as more of a cornerstone to that team than Ruth is.I am building a team, not a Hall of Fame. Why have 16 TEAMS if just want to know who are the best players in order?Koufax was a machine in his prime, one of the top-3 lefties ever, and put up some absolutely disgusting stats..but he wasn't the second-best player of all-time. You could argue he wasn't even the second-best lefty of all-time. Spock had Mays AND Ruth to choose from there and really screwed the pooch.
Sir, can we please keep name calling down to a min until that person is selected.Thanks.I've read accounts of how Ruth was a surprisingly good athlete with incredible strength. Hands, wrists and forearm power generating damn good bat speed. No question he didn't take care of himself and train like today's players. I'm sure even XXX XXXX is a better defensive outfielder but his hitting is no fluke. Baseball was played different but don't let anyone tell you that pitchers didn't throw hard back then. They did. No raised pitching mounds back then either.

No DH.Reminder - are we going DH in these games?
I'm not contesting that Ruth was the greatest player of all time. I completely agree. But if our teams are supposed to be playing in ball parks that were used before Ruth changed the game and the owners altered the size of the ballparks, the style of baseball played pre Ruth would have an advatage in these huge ballparks to "Earl Weaver - wait for the three run homer" style of baseball, don't you think?Then again, Ruth absolutely changed the game. That is why he may be the one position player that towers above all other players and pitchers alike.Perhaps, but before HR's became popular with Ruth's arrival, baseball was played much, much differently. I was predicting that the 16 owners would pick big parks, and for the most part I was right, so I'm valuing players that can play baseball pre 1920's style when the ball parks were huge. While Ruth could still jack em out of the big parks, there's no way he puts up the career he had without all the owners bringing in the fences like the did in the 20's, so I didn't value him as the best.From what I've read, Babe was a lot better of a baserunner than people realize.Because Ruth can't run. Bonds would be a good choice, but I just can't stand him.I understand that..I just don't understand how you see Koufax as more of a cornerstone to that team than Ruth is.I am building a team, not a Hall of Fame. Why have 16 TEAMS if just want to know who are the best players in order?Koufax was a machine in his prime, one of the top-3 lefties ever, and put up some absolutely disgusting stats..but he wasn't the second-best player of all-time. You could argue he wasn't even the second-best lefty of all-time. Spock had Mays AND Ruth to choose from there and really screwed the pooch.
Good points. Ruth did usher in a hitters era. Historically, there is NO career that even comes CLOSE to Ruth. Bonds is a spec in that way. Ability and numbers wise might be a little different story. I wonder if what we are seeing today is reminiscent of what they saw when HRs skyrocketed back with Ruth and Gehrig and then Foxx and all. Would those guys hit even MORE today? Or would it be about what we see today? I am REALLY juicing for spring training to start. Lets finish this draft in Florida! (not like we will finish before then anyway)I've read accounts of how Ruth was a surprisingly good athlete with incredible strength. Hands, wrists and forearm power generating damn good bat speed. No question he didn't take care of himself and train like today's players. I'm sure even Lew Ford is a better defensive outfielder but his hitting is no fluke. Baseball was played different but don't let anyone tell you that pitchers didn't throw hard back then. They did. No raised pitching mounds back then either.
I will agree that if they are ridiculously large ballparks it will have a bit effect. But remember, Yankee stadium was friendly in some ways, and evil in others. Ruth would have got his, one way or another, in any era. Dead era he would have hit 16-20 hrs at least when guys hit 7-10 for the lead league. But Ruth would probably also bat above .400. At least.I'm not contesting that Ruth was the greatest player of all time. I completely agree. But if our teams are supposed to be playing in ball parks that were used before Ruth changed the game and the owners altered the size of the ballparks, the style of baseball played pre Ruth would have an advatage in these huge ballparks to "Earl Weaver - wait for the three run homer" style of baseball, don't you think?Then again, Ruth absolutely changed the game. That is why he may be the one position player that towers above all other players and pitchers alike.Perhaps, but before HR's became popular with Ruth's arrival, baseball was played much, much differently. I was predicting that the 16 owners would pick big parks, and for the most part I was right, so I'm valuing players that can play baseball pre 1920's style when the ball parks were huge. While Ruth could still jack em out of the big parks, there's no way he puts up the career he had without all the owners bringing in the fences like the did in the 20's, so I didn't value him as the best.From what I've read, Babe was a lot better of a baserunner than people realize.Because Ruth can't run. Bonds would be a good choice, but I just can't stand him.I understand that..I just don't understand how you see Koufax as more of a cornerstone to that team than Ruth is.I am building a team, not a Hall of Fame. Why have 16 TEAMS if just want to know who are the best players in order?Koufax was a machine in his prime, one of the top-3 lefties ever, and put up some absolutely disgusting stats..but he wasn't the second-best player of all-time. You could argue he wasn't even the second-best lefty of all-time. Spock had Mays AND Ruth to choose from there and really screwed the pooch.
Uncovered your 3rd round nugget did I?Sir, can we please keep name calling down to a min until that person is selected.Thanks.I've read accounts of how Ruth was a surprisingly good athlete with incredible strength. Hands, wrists and forearm power generating damn good bat speed. No question he didn't take care of himself and train like today's players. I'm sure even XXX XXXX is a better defensive outfielder but his hitting is no fluke. Baseball was played different but don't let anyone tell you that pitchers didn't throw hard back then. They did. No raised pitching mounds back then either.![]()
well, hell that really drops Edgar down my list.......Reminder - are we going DH in these games?Jesus no.
:rotflmao:Completely agree. But an ace pitcher in one of these ballparks is also gonna drop the production of Aaron, Mays, Mantle as well. Not so much so though for speedsters like Henderson. If I was gonna take the best available player, I take Ruth. However, I'm predicting what the other 15 owners are gonna do, which included predicting the size of stadiums they'll take and predicting that they would take left handed hitting power hitters early. So my resulting strategy says take a dominant left hander.Dead era he would have hit 16-20 hrs at least when guys hit 7-10 for the lead league. But Ruth would probably also bat above .400. At least.
fourth.Uncovered your 3rd round nugget did I?Sir, can we please keep name calling down to a min until that person is selected.Thanks.I've read accounts of how Ruth was a surprisingly good athlete with incredible strength. Hands, wrists and forearm power generating damn good bat speed. No question he didn't take care of himself and train like today's players. I'm sure even XXX XXXX is a better defensive outfielder but his hitting is no fluke. Baseball was played different but don't let anyone tell you that pitchers didn't throw hard back then. They did. No raised pitching mounds back then either.![]()
Greedy *******. Like we'd let him slip to the 4th round.fourth.Uncovered your 3rd round nugget did I?Sir, can we please keep name calling down to a min until that person is selected.Thanks.I've read accounts of how Ruth was a surprisingly good athlete with incredible strength. Hands, wrists and forearm power generating damn good bat speed. No question he didn't take care of himself and train like today's players. I'm sure even XXX XXXX is a better defensive outfielder but his hitting is no fluke. Baseball was played different but don't let anyone tell you that pitchers didn't throw hard back then. They did. No raised pitching mounds back then either.![]()

Interesting..I see where you're working from there, but I still refuse to see the value in Koufax that early.Do you not think there was an outside chance of him getting back to you? I don't think he'd be off the board yet, personally.Completely agree. But an ace pitcher in one of these ballparks is also gonna drop the production of Aaron, Mays, Mantle as well. Not so much so though for speedsters like Henderson. If I was gonna take the best available player, I take Ruth. However, I'm predicting what the other 15 owners are gonna do, which included predicting the size of stadiums they'll take and predicting that they would take left handed hitting power hitters early. So my resulting strategy says take a dominant left hander.Dead era he would have hit 16-20 hrs at least when guys hit 7-10 for the lead league. But Ruth would probably also bat above .400. At least.
:rotflmao:I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys. That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.
We'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys. That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.
I nominate KingAirWe'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys. That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.
Obviously, we do not disagree on that start.Completely agree. But an ace pitcher in one of these ballparks is also gonna drop the production of Aaron, Mays, Mantle as well. Not so much so though for speedsters like Henderson. If I was gonna take the best available player, I take Ruth. However, I'm predicting what the other 15 owners are gonna do, which included predicting the size of stadiums they'll take and predicting that they would take left handed hitting power hitters early. So my resulting strategy says take a dominant left hander.Dead era he would have hit 16-20 hrs at least when guys hit 7-10 for the lead league. But Ruth would probably also bat above .400. At least.

:rotflmao: having 2 teams would be nice,I nominate KingAirWe'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys. That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.

What are you talking about? I think he did a great job of picking for me while I was suspended, and I think a nice way to thank him would be to give Nipsey's team to him. Don't you agree?:rotflmao: having 2 teams would be nice,I nominate KingAirWe'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys. That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.![]()
Koufax is a unique case. Unmatched for 5 years. But what about all those preceeding years?Some will look at the whole career, some just at those 5 years... my guess is most will look at some balance of both.I agree he may have been taken before other pitchers that are "considered" better... although I would rather have the original Koufax than "todays" Koufax in Pedro. Certainly more than Clemons. In that light, he probably would no longer be on the board. Again, though - if you look at the final figure far more than those 5 years, it is a different story entirely.Interesting..I see where you're working from there, but I still refuse to see the value in Koufax that early.Do you not think there was an outside chance of him getting back to you? I don't think he'd be off the board yet, personally.Completely agree. But an ace pitcher in one of these ballparks is also gonna drop the production of Aaron, Mays, Mantle as well. Not so much so though for speedsters like Henderson. If I was gonna take the best available player, I take Ruth. However, I'm predicting what the other 15 owners are gonna do, which included predicting the size of stadiums they'll take and predicting that they would take left handed hitting power hitters early. So my resulting strategy says take a dominant left hander.Dead era he would have hit 16-20 hrs at least when guys hit 7-10 for the lead league. But Ruth would probably also bat above .400. At least.
lol. I assumed he was an "alias"...if he's a separate person sure, he'd be a great replacement for somebody.What are you talking about? I think he did a great job of picking for me while I was suspended, and I think a nice way to thank him would be to give Nipsey's team to him. Don't you agree?:rotflmao: having 2 teams would be nice,I nominate KingAirWe'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys. That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.![]()
No, I don't think a dominant left hander would have been available at my next pick at 2-15 (31st pick overall). The best thing for me to have done would have been to trade down. Was that an option?Interesting..I see where you're working from there, but I still refuse to see the value in Koufax that early.Do you not think there was an outside chance of him getting back to you? I don't think he'd be off the board yet, personally.Completely agree. But an ace pitcher in one of these ballparks is also gonna drop the production of Aaron, Mays, Mantle as well. Not so much so though for speedsters like Henderson. If I was gonna take the best available player, I take Ruth. However, I'm predicting what the other 15 owners are gonna do, which included predicting the size of stadiums they'll take and predicting that they would take left handed hitting power hitters early. So my resulting strategy says take a dominant left hander.Dead era he would have hit 16-20 hrs at least when guys hit 7-10 for the lead league. But Ruth would probably also bat above .400. At least.
Who is this Nipsey you talk about? (and is this Syracuse coach any good, when you find him)We'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys. That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.
what's that, a tv show or something?I assumed he was an "alias"
I can't be replaced as I've invested way too much into my picks already. See you next Tuesday. Trust me, it'll be worth the wait as my picks are going to be really good.We'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys.
That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.
He's head of the LeBron James and Shawn Marion fan clubs.Who is this Nipsey you talk about? (and is this Syracuse coach any good, when you find him)We'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys. That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.
fixedI can't be replaced as I've invested way too much into my pick picks already.
what's that, a tv show or something?I assumed he was an "alias"
Where's Pickles? I'm gonna be gone again for awhile in the pm (proboably from about 6 pm until much later...like 11 or 12, f'n date night), anyway. As it is we're a little too far from me to get a short list going. Hope it's close enough by then...if not I'll be back to pick in the late pm.Might take me until Tuesday to find some of these guys on my cheat sheet.....when I get around to making one that is.I can't be replaced as I've invested way too much into my picks already. See you next Tuesday. Trust me, it'll be worth the wait as my picks are going to be really good.We'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys.
That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.![]()
Just waiting for the car service to pick me up and I'm gone. Please get your picks ready in advance so we don't have to ####### wait on Tuesday.
Ok. But (seriously) who the hell is Sean Marion?He's head of the LeBron James and Shawn Marion fan clubs.Who is this Nipsey you talk about? (and is this Syracuse coach any good, when you find him)We'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys. That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.
Oh, I've got one made for all positions + pitchers. Did you guys want it? I'll tell you what, I'll just post it here in the forum. I guess I should paste it in a new post. BRBMight take me until Tuesday to find some of these guys on my cheat sheet.....when I get around to making one that is.I can't be replaced as I've invested way too much into my picks already. See you next Tuesday. Trust me, it'll be worth the wait as my picks are going to be really good.We'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys.
That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.![]()
Just waiting for the car service to pick me up and I'm gone. Please get your picks ready in advance so we don't have to ####### wait on Tuesday.
The 3rd best player on the Suns but a vintage NBA god.Ok. But (seriously) who the hell is Sean Marion?He's head of the LeBron James and Shawn Marion fan clubs.Who is this Nipsey you talk about? (and is this Syracuse coach any good, when you find him)We'll miss ya. So who replaces Nipsey?I have my next top 3 players (I pick in three picks), but am going out of town until next Tuesday. I really don't want to PM cappella my picks as I pick again in round three after he has two picks, and he'll probably take one of my guys. That being said, I'll see you next tuesday, and we'll resume then. Thanks all.
Can we agree that it really wasn't 5 years of dominance? If you say five years, you have to include the 1962 season where he was 14-7 with a 2.62 ERA. Nice season, but not unmatched by any means.Koufax is a unique case. Unmatched for 5 years. But what about all those preceeding years?Again, though - if you look at the final figure far more than those 5 years, it is a different story entirely.