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*****OFFICIAL FORMULA ONE GRAND PRIX THREAD***** (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter cosjobs
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
PIK95
Footballguy
I think he did it on purpose, but maybe. It was funny either way. Especially considering he slowed down at the end and still got fast lap.
I think the decision/transition is being handled about as well as it can. Raikkonen had the spotlight for his retirement, Bottas will now get some time as the lead story, and then Russell will have his day.
The remaining question seems to be who will replace Russell at Williams, and I suppose whether Williams will stay with Mercedes engines (that seems to be a sticking point to allowing Albon to go to Williams).
The remaining question seems to be who will replace Russell at Williams, and I suppose whether Williams will stay with Mercedes engines (that seems to be a sticking point to allowing Albon to go to Williams).
Eephus
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
Oh. He was one of my favorites in the early Netflix specials. Guy sort of vanished from that point.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
And now, for the next step in this choreographed dance, Russell is introduced as the next Mercedes driver.
ETA: Elsewhere in F1, Alpha Tauri announced on Tuesday that they were continuing with Frenchman Pierre Gasly and Japan's Yuki Tsunoda in 2022.
ETA: Elsewhere in F1, Alpha Tauri announced on Tuesday that they were continuing with Frenchman Pierre Gasly and Japan's Yuki Tsunoda in 2022.
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Eephus
Footballguy
Albon to Williams confirmed.
It's a good landing spot away from Red Bull politics. Latifi seems like a good teammate who doesn't play games or pose much of a challenge on pace. Their 2022 car has as good a chance to improve as any of the backmarkers, maybe better with a Mercedes PU.
It's a good landing spot away from Red Bull politics. Latifi seems like a good teammate who doesn't play games or pose much of a challenge on pace. Their 2022 car has as good a chance to improve as any of the backmarkers, maybe better with a Mercedes PU.
Is Latifi confirmed? Any news about Williams switching to the new RB power unit?
I do think it’s good for Albon. That 2nd seat at RB is such a pressure cooker and they never seem interested in helping that driver along.
Ah found an article:
Williams did not say whether Albon would retain links with Red Bull into next season, but Capito said: "He is a Williams driver in 2022 and we decide what he is doing and what he is not doing."
A Red Bull spokesperson said: 'We have released Alex to become a Williams Racing driver in 2022 but retain a relationship with him that includes future options."
Latifi staying, sounds like Williams are not ready to swap PUs just yet and have worked out any issues between RB and Mercedes over Albon’s involvement.
Williams did not say whether Albon would retain links with Red Bull into next season, but Capito said: "He is a Williams driver in 2022 and we decide what he is doing and what he is not doing."
A Red Bull spokesperson said: 'We have released Alex to become a Williams Racing driver in 2022 but retain a relationship with him that includes future options."
Latifi staying, sounds like Williams are not ready to swap PUs just yet and have worked out any issues between RB and Mercedes over Albon’s involvement.
Mercedes with a little strategery this weekend. They have a pace advantage over Red Bull at Monza, but Bottas will be taking on an entire new PU and will start at the back of the grid.
But the grid penalty does not take place until the race and in the meantime Bottas will start the qualifying sprint race from pole position and hope to deny Verstappen a point or two in the process.
All indications are that Lewis and Verstappen will each have the same grid penalty at some point for using a 4th PU before the end of the season.
But the grid penalty does not take place until the race and in the meantime Bottas will start the qualifying sprint race from pole position and hope to deny Verstappen a point or two in the process.
All indications are that Lewis and Verstappen will each have the same grid penalty at some point for using a 4th PU before the end of the season.
Eephus
Footballguy
Very happy for Bottas after the week he's had (and the day he'll have starting in the back on Sunday).
It would be awesome if HAM and VER take new engines the same weekend.
I think Max should be fine.After watching qualifying today, I think Max is gonna have a tough weekend for sure. I expect a boat race, with Lewis way out in front. Unless he gets engine failure or a crash of course.
Hamilton will be favored for sure, but with Bottas’ penalty the race on Sunday should be Hamilton, Verstappen with a chance for Red Bull grabbing the fastest lap point in the end.
PIK95
Footballguy
Yeah, but that was one heck of a twenty seconds. The track is fast, but pretty boring imo.
Great race for McLaren and Bottas. Max will not be happy with the result - but at the start of the weekend, and certainly after his pit stop, he would have expected to lose points to Hamilton. So, coming out even is probably a minor victory for Verstappen. Mercedes did extend their Constructor's lead.
Max never seems to be one to back out of a challenge, and it appears that Lewis is tired of being the one to back out. Nice to see the Halo work again.
Max never seems to be one to back out of a challenge, and it appears that Lewis is tired of being the one to back out. Nice to see the Halo work again.
Post-Race: Verstappen has been deemed to have caused the incident by race stewards and received a three-place grid penalty for the next race - the Russian Grand Prix in Sochi on 26 September.
It will be interesting if Verstappen and/or Hamilton take their engine penalties as well next race. Assuming both teams think they will need a 4th engine, it seems that the time to take the Penalty is when you are already taking a penalty. Maybe Hamilton waits - but parts of his PU might have been damaged in the collision today.
It will be interesting if Verstappen and/or Hamilton take their engine penalties as well next race. Assuming both teams think they will need a 4th engine, it seems that the time to take the Penalty is when you are already taking a penalty. Maybe Hamilton waits - but parts of his PU might have been damaged in the collision today.
Eephus
Footballguy
I'm disappointed RIC didn't give me a post-race shoutout for the bulletin board material.
Terrific result for McLaren who had the field covered even without the collision at the first chicane. It's hard for new fans of the sport to appreciate the Woking's team journey from the top to the bottom to the top over the past decade.
culdeus
Footballguy
PIK95
Footballguy
I am very surprised by this. As a Lewis hater, of course I have Red Bull Colored glasses on. But even the pundits blamed Lewis for this one in real time and until the end of the race. Watch it while pretending that Max isn't there. Lewis went out of his way to go in an unnatural direction, and would have possibly driven off the edge of the track if Max locked up (or wasn't there). So strange.Sinn Fein said:
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This is how Horner described it:
“First of all, we shouldn’t have been in that position because we had a poor pit stop,” added Horner. “But Max had the momentum, he had enough space around – I think Lewis gave him enough around the run in to Turn 1 and our opinion would be that Lewis perhaps closed him too much into Turn 2. You can see [Max has] got the momentum into Turn 1, Lewis gives him enough space there, Max alongside, and then obviously an incident.
“I think [Max] earned enough to be given a bit more space to work with on the left there. You can probably argue it from both sides, but if you’re taking the middle ground with it, you’d call it a racing incident.”
And, if that's the best defense he can muster - its pretty clearly Max's fault, and the stewards saw it the same way.
And after several hours of deliberating, it was deemed Verstappen was at fault as his pass was “attempted too late for him to have the right to racing room” – and he was handed a three-place grid penalty plus two penalty points – the first on his licence in this 12-month period.
“The Stewards heard from the driver of car 33 (Max Verstappen), the driver of car 44 (Lewis Hamilton) and team representatives, reviewed the video evidence and determined that the driver of Car 33 was predominantly to blame for the collision with Car 44 at Turn 2,” said the stewards in a statement.
“Car 44 was exiting the pits. Car 33 was on the main straight. At the 50m board before Turn 1, Car 44 was significantly ahead of Car 33. Car 33 braked late and started to move alongside Car 44, although at no point in the sequence does Car 33 get any further forward than just behind the front wheel of Car 44.
“During the hearing the driver of Car 33 asserted that the cause of the incident was the driver of Car 44 opening the steering after Turn 1 and “squeezing” him to the apex of turn 2. The driver of Car 44 asserted that the driver of Car 33 attempted to pass very late and should have given up the corner either by backing off sooner, or by turning left behind the kerb.
READ MORE: Hamilton says Verstappen 'obviously knew he wasn't going to make the corner' after Monza crash
“The Stewards observed on CCTV footage that the driver of Car 44 was driving an avoiding line, although his position caused Car 33 to go onto the kerb. But further, the Stewards observed that Car 33 was not at all alongside Car 44 until significantly into the entry into Turn 1.
“In the opinion of the Stewards, this manoeuvre was attempted too late for the driver of Car 33 to have “the right to racing room”. While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was reasonable and therefore find that the driver of Car 33 was predominantly to blame for the incident.
“In coming to the penalty the Stewards emphasise that they have only considered the incident itself and not the consequences thereof.”
“The Stewards heard from the driver of car 33 (Max Verstappen), the driver of car 44 (Lewis Hamilton) and team representatives, reviewed the video evidence and determined that the driver of Car 33 was predominantly to blame for the collision with Car 44 at Turn 2,” said the stewards in a statement.
“Car 44 was exiting the pits. Car 33 was on the main straight. At the 50m board before Turn 1, Car 44 was significantly ahead of Car 33. Car 33 braked late and started to move alongside Car 44, although at no point in the sequence does Car 33 get any further forward than just behind the front wheel of Car 44.
“During the hearing the driver of Car 33 asserted that the cause of the incident was the driver of Car 44 opening the steering after Turn 1 and “squeezing” him to the apex of turn 2. The driver of Car 44 asserted that the driver of Car 33 attempted to pass very late and should have given up the corner either by backing off sooner, or by turning left behind the kerb.
READ MORE: Hamilton says Verstappen 'obviously knew he wasn't going to make the corner' after Monza crash
“The Stewards observed on CCTV footage that the driver of Car 44 was driving an avoiding line, although his position caused Car 33 to go onto the kerb. But further, the Stewards observed that Car 33 was not at all alongside Car 44 until significantly into the entry into Turn 1.
“In the opinion of the Stewards, this manoeuvre was attempted too late for the driver of Car 33 to have “the right to racing room”. While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was reasonable and therefore find that the driver of Car 33 was predominantly to blame for the incident.
“In coming to the penalty the Stewards emphasise that they have only considered the incident itself and not the consequences thereof.”
PIK95
Footballguy
What's wrong with that defense? He's right. Max got closed out into the second turn.
PIK95
Footballguy
In the opinion of the Stewards, this manoeuvre was attempted too late for the driver of Car 33 to have “the right to racing room”. While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was reasonable and therefore find that the driver of Car 33 was predominantly to blame for the incident."
So they are saying they were both at fault, but more Max. I watched it about ten times, and I disagree. Too bad my opponent means nothing.
The big story is how the halo probably saved Lewis's life. That worked perfectly.
So they are saying they were both at fault, but more Max. I watched it about ten times, and I disagree. Too bad my opponent means nothing.
The big story is how the halo probably saved Lewis's life. That worked perfectly.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
They’re basically saying Max shouldn’t have tried to pass in Turn 1 and that by doing so he didn’t give himself enough room in Turn 2 knowing Lewis was there and had position.
PIK95
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I mean they have to be right in that point since he didn’t get by him in that turn. Once he doesn’t get past, Lewis’s natural line doesn’t give Max room and it’s incumbent on Max to then back out before entering turn 2. He didn’t.
PIK95
Footballguy
I don't agree Lewis stayed on his natural line. Don't agree at all on that.I mean they have to be right in that point since he didn’t get by him in that turn. Once he doesn’t get past, Lewis’s natural line doesn’t give Max room and it’s incumbent on Max to then back out before entering turn 2. He didn’t.
The funny thing is that during the broadcast, they were all over Lewis with blame. Replays backing it up. Not once did they even suggest Max was at fault. I know they are just pundits, but they have forgotten more about this stuff than I will ever know.
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Eephus
Footballguy
The Netflix Schumacher documentary is out.
It's definitely worth a watch for F1 fans but it's a pretty dull film IMO. I think a lot of that comes down to the subject who's just never been that interesting to me. He was a superb driver but his single minded nature doesn't make for fascinating viewing. His wife Corrina seems like a lovely woman but she reveals little about the man that we didn't know already from his public life.
It's definitely worth a watch for F1 fans but it's a pretty dull film IMO. I think a lot of that comes down to the subject who's just never been that interesting to me. He was a superb driver but his single minded nature doesn't make for fascinating viewing. His wife Corrina seems like a lovely woman but she reveals little about the man that we didn't know already from his public life.
PIK95
Footballguy
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Eephus
Footballguy
Senna was the more complex, interesting protagonist that's for sure. One of the many things lost at Tamburello was the budding rivalry between he and Schumi. Williams and Benetton were evenly matched in 1994 and 95. You have to believe Senna would have gotten more out of the Williams than the inexperienced Damon or Coulthard did.
The Schumacher film spent a good 10-15 minutes on Senna's death and the crisis of confidence that followed. It was one of the more effective ways the film humanized Michael.
No race until next weekend. It's Sochi so don't get your hopes up.
PIK95
Footballguy
I pretty much stopped watching for a bit the day he died. That was my hey day of watching fwiw. In 1994 Drew Bledsoe was my hero. Senna was my dads. He was an ###, but he loved Senna so much.
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Back to race weekend.
Semi-interesting developments:
1. Verstappen will take on a new PU this weekend, putting him at the back of the grid.
2. Toto - on behalf of Hamilton - announces that he (Hamilton) will not be backing out of challenges this season - i.e. expect more "racing incidents" between the two championship contenders.
3. Rain expected for qualifying.
Also - I know Bottas has the PU upgrade, but he seems to be racing better now that his future in F1 has been sorted.
Hamilton will likely need the same PU upgrade at some point. I am sure Mercedes are looking at the calendar to figure out the best spot to take that penalty. I thought maybe they would want to do it at the same time as Max - but it seems like they will try to maximize the difference in the two drivers this weekend.
Semi-interesting developments:
1. Verstappen will take on a new PU this weekend, putting him at the back of the grid.
2. Toto - on behalf of Hamilton - announces that he (Hamilton) will not be backing out of challenges this season - i.e. expect more "racing incidents" between the two championship contenders.
3. Rain expected for qualifying.
Also - I know Bottas has the PU upgrade, but he seems to be racing better now that his future in F1 has been sorted.
Hamilton will likely need the same PU upgrade at some point. I am sure Mercedes are looking at the calendar to figure out the best spot to take that penalty. I thought maybe they would want to do it at the same time as Max - but it seems like they will try to maximize the difference in the two drivers this weekend.
Eephus
Footballguy
The organizers have already shuffled the weekend schedule due to the expected rain. There's been some discussion about moving F1 qualifying to Sunday morning.
The weekend calendar is especially congested because both Formula 2 and 3 have full three race programs to squeeze in between the showers (F3 was rescheduled from CoTA). The organizers already had to move the Saturday F3 sprint race to Friday with Red Bull affiliated driver Dennis Hauger of Norway clinching the championship.
The weekend calendar is especially congested because both Formula 2 and 3 have full three race programs to squeeze in between the showers (F3 was rescheduled from CoTA). The organizers already had to move the Saturday F3 sprint race to Friday with Red Bull affiliated driver Dennis Hauger of Norway clinching the championship.
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