Official Great Works Draft (3 Viewers)

[timschochet]

Well, Timmy. Since none of the ideas you just mentioned have been selected and my choice "produced a parallel revolution in political thought," I'll stick with my choice since it encompasses all of it. . Thanks for helping us.

Well, Misfitty. I appreciate your persistence, but no, you don't get to stick with your choice. You get to appeal, or repick. Sticking with your choice is not an option.

 

[timschochet]

I hate to do this, knowing the crap I'm going to get, but...Misfit Blondes, the Industrial Revolution is not a philosophical or political idea. You cannot select it in this category. As a matter of fact, I don't think this is eligible for ANY category. I rule it's out. Pick again, please.

The industrial revolution came about when new agricultural techniques were developed and British Parliament passed the Enclosure laws to take lands away from tenant farmers and turned the lands into large private farms worked by a much smaller force. This really increased the agricultural production. This sent all of the then unemployed to the cities and they became factory workers. And any rise in the availability of food causes population spikes which was perfect for this new way of life. Definitely a purely political idea constructed by Parliament.

Thank you for your argument. I'm afraid it's unconvincing. But I appreciate the effort.

 

[timschochet]

Well, Timmy. Since none of the ideas you just mentioned have been selected and my choice "produced a parallel revolution in political thought," I'll stick with my choice since it encompasses all of it. . Thanks for helping us.

Well, Misfitty. I appreciate your persistence, but no, you don't get to stick with your choice. You get to appeal, or repick. Sticking with your choice is not an option.

Sticking with my choice is what I'm doing. You even backed it up yourself by quoting the part from the article on political philosophy that stated it "produced a parallel revolution in political thought."

You're free to stick with your choice in your own mind, I suppose. It will never show up on the OP and will not be considered as a valid pick by the judges. If you don't choose to make an alternative pick, that slot will simply be left blank. If this is good with you, then it works for me.

 

[BobbyLayne]

The industrial revolution came about when new agricultural techniques were developed and British Parliament passed the Enclosure laws to take lands away from tenant farmers and turned the lands into large private farms worked by a much smaller force. This really increased the agricultural production. This sent all of the then unemployed to the cities and they became factory workers. And any rise in the availability of food causes population spikes which was perfect for this new way of life. Definitely a purely political idea constructed by Parliament.

I nominate the above for the fiction category.Richard Arkwright's factory system (first in the world), the Bridgewater Canal, and a host of inventions - Watt's steam engine, the wheelgate, High's spinning jenny, Kay's flying shuttle, Crompton's spinning mule, Fitch's steam boat, etc - those were the driving forces, not Parliment.You guys should have just drafted Lancashire. Oh wait...you did.

 

[Mister CIA]

I've never read the book, but I did read the Wiki description. Never once is it described as a novel. I'm going to say Ok as non fiction.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, might want to re-check that. Read "Genre(s)" in table to the right.

Oops. You're right, I didn't see that. OK, this is ruled out as a nonfiction. You may take it as fiction or a wildcard, or repick.

I'd like to repick if I may. I already have too many choices as it is to select from for my remaining wildcard selections. Not sure what I want at the moment so I'll do the re-do later.Apologies for the inadvertent spotlight. I was thinking this fell under non-fiction much like Machiavelli's The Prince and other philosophical/political works.

 

[timschochet]

I've never read the book, but I did read the Wiki description. Never once is it described as a novel. I'm going to say Ok as non fiction.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, might want to re-check that. Read "Genre(s)" in table to the right.

Oops. You're right, I didn't see that. OK, this is ruled out as a nonfiction. You may take it as fiction or a wildcard, or repick.

I'd like to repick if I may. I already have too many choices as it is to select from for my remaining wildcard selections. Not sure what I want at the moment so I'll do the re-do later.Apologies for the inadvertent spotlight. I was thinking this fell under non-fiction much like Machiavelli's The Prince and other philosophical/political works.

No problem. Repick whenever you're ready.

 

[Mister CIA]

I hear ya. I was drunk for about 5 3/4 of the 6 years I was in the Navy, dang lucky I never got one.No offense to anyone who has a tat, but that is often (generally speaking) a youthful indiscretion later regretted.

Same here, six years and one month. My working book title is 20,000 Beers and Beneath the Sea - If I wasn't poking holes in the ocean, I was pouring beer. Never once had the urge to get a tattoo.

Bubble head? Tin cans here.

Yep, slept with the fish.

 

[rodg12]

More ridiculousness from MfB. At least your other episodes had a shred (ever so tiny as it was) of merit. This is blatantly ridiculous. Draft a period in history as a philosophical/political idea?

 

[Chiwawa]

The industrial revolution came about when new agricultural techniques were developed and British Parliament passed the Enclosure laws to take lands away from tenant farmers and turned the lands into large private farms worked by a much smaller force. This really increased the agricultural production. This sent all of the then unemployed to the cities and they became factory workers. And any rise in the availability of food causes population spikes which was perfect for this new way of life. Definitely a purely political idea constructed by Parliament.

I nominate the above for the fiction category.Richard Arkwright's factory system (first in the world), the Bridgewater Canal, and a host of inventions - Watt's steam engine, the wheelgate, High's spinning jenny, Kay's flying shuttle, Crompton's spinning mule, Fitch's steam boat, etc - those were the driving forces, not Parliment.You guys should have just drafted Lancashire. Oh wait...you did.

those inventions were very important in the industrial revolution no doubt but they did not start the ball rolling. They do no good if there are no people to work them.

 

[timschochet]

"Dad, I need to write about a political or philosophical idea for a school report."

"How about the Industrial Revolution?"

"Umm- is that really an idea? Isn't it more like an event?"

"Whatever. Your teacher will never know the difference."

"Yeah, but don't you think-"

"Look son, I'd love to stay and talk, but your mother and I have Broadway tickets for tonight, and we gotta run."

"Really? Are you going to see The Immaculate Reception?"

"No can do. That show's sold out for months. No, we're going to see Wrestlemania instead."

 

[BobbyLayne]

More ridiculousness from MfB. At least your other episodes had a shred (ever so tiny as it was) of merit. This is blatantly ridiculous. Draft a period in history as a philosophical/political idea?

Then again... We let Anborn/Norwood draft a topic and a 2,700 year history as a Scientific Discovery.Who effing cares? Let them have it. You think Yankee23Fan is going to have any issues with giving them 1 point for drafting outside the boundary of the category?

 

[Chiwawa]

More ridiculousness from MfB. At least your other episodes had a shred (ever so tiny as it was) of merit. This is blatantly ridiculous. Draft a period in history as a philosophical/political idea?

anything you find to read on it clearly proves it was so much more than "a period in history".

 

[rodg12]

Well, Timmy. Since none of the ideas you just mentioned have been selected and my choice "produced a parallel revolution in political thought," I'll stick with my choice since it encompasses all of it. .

Thanks for helping us.

Well, Misfitty. I appreciate your persistence, but no, you don't get to stick with your choice. You get to appeal, or repick. Sticking with your choice is not an option.

Sticking with my choice is what I'm doing. You even backed it up yourself by quoting the part from the article on political philosophy that stated it "produced a parallel revolution in political thought."

You're free to stick with your choice in your own mind, I suppose. It will never show up on the OP and will not be considered as a valid pick by the judges. If you don't choose to make an alternative pick, that slot will simply be left blank. If this is good with you, then it works for me.

I'm just using what I've found plus the argument you made to support it. None of the other ideas have been selected and mine is a parallel thought, seems to me that the first one counts and that's mine.

The Industrial Revolution is not a thought.

 

[Mister CIA]

I read this about fifteen years ago and was at once fascinated and bored out of my mind. This is one of those works that probably has to be read twice to (more) fully understand the author's point because it's shrouded within prose that painfully details a cross-country motorcycle ride across the northern plains of the U.S. I'm quite sure there's irony involved where I felt the book was tedious.

If I recall correctly, he made a point that a long time ago, truth prevailed over quality. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I defer to previous statement about the boring-### motorcycle ride as my excuse. Still, if I am wrong that's okay because I've gotten a lot of mileage over ruminating on quality vs truth.

42.09 - Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsg, Non-fiction

One of my favorite books, ...but Non-fiction?ETA: Also, I can't say I agree with the bolded.

Yeah, I should have wiki-ed first so that I half-### sounded like I knew something about what I read.

He argues that although rational thought may find truth (or The Truth) it may not be valid for all experiences. Therefore, what is needed is an approach to viewing life that is more varied and inclusive and has a wider range of application. He makes a thorough case that originally the Greeks did not distinguish between "Quality" and "Truth" – they were one and the same – and that the divorce was, in fact, artificial (though needed at the time) and is now a source of much frustration and unhappiness in the world, particularly overall dissatisfaction with modern life.

Pirsig aims towards a perception of the world that embraces both sides, the rational and the romantic. This means encompassing "irrational" sources of wisdom and understanding as well as science, reason and technology. In particular, this must include bursts of creativity and intuition that seemingly come from nowhere and are not (in his view) rationally explicable. Pirsig seeks to demonstrate that rationality and Zen-like "being in the moment" can harmoniously coexist. He suggests such a combination of rationality and romanticism can potentially bring a higher quality of life.

Now it's coming back, slowly.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I read this about fifteen years ago and was at once fascinated and bored out of my mind. This is one of those works that probably has to be read twice to (more) fully understand the author's point because it's shrouded within prose that painfully details a cross-country motorcycle ride across the northern plains of the U.S. I'm quite sure there's irony involved where I felt the book was tedious.

If I recall correctly, he made a point that a long time ago, truth prevailed over quality. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I defer to previous statement about the boring-### motorcycle ride as my excuse. Still, if I am wrong that's okay because I've gotten a lot of mileage over ruminating on quality vs truth.

42.09 - Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsg, Non-fiction

One of my favorite books, ...but Non-fiction?ETA: Also, I can't say I agree with the bolded.

Yeah, I should have wiki-ed first so that I half-### sounded like I knew something about what I read.

He argues that although rational thought may find truth (or The Truth) it may not be valid for all experiences. Therefore, what is needed is an approach to viewing life that is more varied and inclusive and has a wider range of application. He makes a thorough case that originally the Greeks did not distinguish between "Quality" and "Truth" – they were one and the same – and that the divorce was, in fact, artificial (though needed at the time) and is now a source of much frustration and unhappiness in the world, particularly overall dissatisfaction with modern life.

Pirsig aims towards a perception of the world that embraces both sides, the rational and the romantic. This means encompassing "irrational" sources of wisdom and understanding as well as science, reason and technology. In particular, this must include bursts of creativity and intuition that seemingly come from nowhere and are not (in his view) rationally explicable. Pirsig seeks to demonstrate that rationality and Zen-like "being in the moment" can harmoniously coexist. He suggests such a combination of rationality and romanticism can potentially bring a higher quality of life.

Now it's coming back, slowly.

I'm pretty sure I was stoned everyday the summer I read it ('77 or '78...its a little hazy).Upon further reflection (and with perfect 20-20 hindsight), its prolly not a great pick for this draft.

Its still a great read - the perfect book to be reading on a road trip. Or when you're on a get-away-from-it-all retreat.

I think my lists have a lot of personal favs but when push comes to shove I end up taking something else.

 

[BobbyLayne]

The industrial revolution came about when new agricultural techniques were developed and British Parliament passed the Enclosure laws to take lands away from tenant farmers and turned the lands into large private farms worked by a much smaller force. This really increased the agricultural production. This sent all of the then unemployed to the cities and they became factory workers. And any rise in the availability of food causes population spikes which was perfect for this new way of life. Definitely a purely political idea constructed by Parliament.

I nominate the above for the fiction category.Richard Arkwright's factory system (first in the world), the Bridgewater Canal, and a host of inventions - Watt's steam engine, the wheelgate, High's spinning jenny, Kay's flying shuttle, Crompton's spinning mule, Fitch's steam boat, etc - those were the driving forces, not Parliment.You guys should have just drafted Lancashire. Oh wait...you did.

those inventions were very important in the industrial revolution no doubt but they did not start the ball rolling. They do no good if there are no people to work them.

Inclosure Acts were nothing new; they go all the way back to the four Norman Kings.The areas of England affected by the Inclosure* Acts were mainly the counties of the Midlands, East Anglia and Central Southern England.Would you like me to post a link showing where the East and West Midlands and East Anglia are in relation to the Lancashire, the heart of the Industrial Revolution? You were only off by four counties.If you are going persist, bring it a little stronger than that.*enclosure is the modern spelling; they were called Inclosure 1760-1850.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Timeline

- 1733 Flying shuttle invented by John Kay - an improvement to looms that enabled weavers to weave faster.

- 1742 Cotton mills were first opened in England.

- 1764 Spinning jenny invented by James Hargreaves - the first machine to improve upon the spinning wheel.

- 1764 Water frame invented by Richard Arkwright - the first powered textile machine.

- 1769 Arkwright patented the water frame.

- 1770 Hargreaves patented the Spinning Jenny.

- 1773 The first all-cotton textiles were produced in factories.

- 1779 Crompton invented the spinning mule that allowed for greater control over the weaving process.

- 1801 Inclosure Act (tidied up a lot of small inclosures); next major Inclusure Act by Parliment was in 1845.

This line of reasoning doesn't seem to be working out for you, Chiwawa.

Matters not, its just obfuscation on your part.

The real issue is whether the Industrial Revolution is an idea or political philosophy.

It is not.

There were parallel developments in political thought and political philosophy developed as a reaction to the Industrial Revolution.

But the Parlimentary tail wasn't wagging the Revolutionary dog.

 

[Big Rocks]

"Dad, I need to write about a political or philosophical idea for a school report."

"How about the Industrial Revolution?"

"Umm- is that really an idea? Isn't it more like an event?"

"Whatever. Your teacher will never know the difference."

"Yeah, but don't you think-"

"Look son, I'd love to stay and talk, but your mother and I have Broadway tickets for tonight, and we gotta run."

"Really? Are you going to see The Immaculate Reception?"

"No can do. That show's sold out for months. No, we're going to see Wrestlemania instead."

 

[Postradamus]

Zen and the Art of MM is definitely a non-fiction book in the vein of philosophy IMO.

 

[Fennis]

OK, after much thought, here is my idea for judging. I think this would be both fun, and fair:1. We have the category judges evaluate, and this will set a playoff order, as we've done before.2. We'll have a daily playoff as we've done before, EXCEPT: voting will be by post here, and it will be invite only- invites being restricted to those who are either directly involved in the draft, or people who tell us they want to be involved beforehand, and are vouched for by at least three drafters. Everyone else who attempts to vote will be ignored. And again, you have to post in the thread to make your vote. What do you guys think?

If I'm not around, any suggestions which hint of either apathy or anarchy, gets my vote.Personally I would prefer no playoff matchups.

On the agenda for the next Team Fennis board meeting is a shareholder proposal to forfeit any and all playoff match-ups.

 

[El Floppo]

The Industrial Revolution is not a thought.

Wait a sec... I just thought about it- so it must be a thought.

 

[TidesofWar]

I will be occupied all day with a Board Meeting, Golf outing, and what looks to be shaping up as a boring stuffy, dinner

Therefore, pursuant to the theme and tenor of this undertaking, please skip me and I will catch up tonight as I can.

Hit 'em straight, and Salut!

 

[PatsWillWin]

 

[BobbyLayne]

Off autoskip today, but ToW and I are 19-20 picks away...

 

[Yankee23Fan]

More ridiculousness from MfB. At least your other episodes had a shred (ever so tiny as it was) of merit. This is blatantly ridiculous. Draft a period in history as a philosophical/political idea?

Then again... We let Anborn/Norwood draft a topic and a 2,700 year history as a Scientific Discovery.Who effing cares? Let them have it. You think Yankee23Fan is going to have any issues with giving them 1 point for drafting outside the boundary of the category?

There is such a thing as trying too hard to think outside the box and drowing in the ocean it's floating in.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

tim - not a huge fan of any voting for judging purposes. Let the judges do their thing and add up the rankings as such. The only thing we all have to make sure of is that each judge does the ranking in the same 20-19-18 point format you want - then it's simple math.

I would add to that, that instead of a judge just posting their rankings, that some discussion on them would help. For my categories I am going to post my tiers without rank and look for input on that, and then after I've gotten input show my initial, not set in stone, rankings and again look for feedback. Only after that step am I going to post my final rankings and be prepared to defend them accordingly if need be. In this exercise is where most of the fun will be anyway.

As for some form of judging above the judges, again, no votes. I also would shy away from then having to rank everyone else's team because the work involved is huge. How about instead, once the judges post their final rankings, the other 19 drafters rank the judges. They can use whatever criteria they want to rank them, although we would want the focus to be on the reasonablness of their final rankings. Once that is done, add up those 19 different scores for each of the 20 judges and use that as some kind of multiplier for their rankings.

Granted, that is way too mathy for some, but in the end I'm looking for more discussion in the judging stage then worrying about the "winning" stage. The past two competition portions of the drafts didn't go swimmingly anyway.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I vote no to extra rounds but I'll tag along and keep going if they happen.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

43.14 Industrial Revolution - Philosophical Political SomethingorOther.

You guys are trying waaay too hard.

 

[rodg12]

42.09 - Team CIA (repick needed)

43.14 - Misfit Blondes (repick needed)

Skipped

39.19 - Tirnan (autoskip if not around)

40.02 - Tirnan (autoskip if not around)

40.11 - Thatguy (autoskip)

41.06 - Abrantes (autoskip)

41.10 - thatguy (autoskip)

41.19 - Tirnan (autoskip if not around - Get Better GB)

42.02 - Tirnan (autoskip)

42.11 - Thatguy (autoskip)

42.15 - Abrantes (autoskip)

42.16 - Doug B (autoskip)

43.05 - Doug B (autoskip)

43.06 - Abrantes (autoskip)

43.10 - thatguy (autoskip after time out)

43.11 - El Floppo (autoskip after 15 min.)

43.12 - Mister CIA (autoskip)

43.15 - Bob Lee Swagger - UP

43.16 - Scott Norwood - On Deck

43.17 - DC Thunder - In The Hole

43.18 - Genedoc

43.19 - Tirnan (autoskip)

43.20 - Yankee23 Fan

 

[DCThunder]

43.14 Industrial Revolution - Philosophical Political SomethingorOther.

You guys are trying waaay too hard.

The Industrial Revolution is kind of like the Holy Roman Empire. Niether Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.

 

[krista4]

OK, after much thought, here is my idea for judging. I think this would be both fun, and fair:

1. We have the category judges evaluate, and this will set a playoff order, as we've done before.

2. We'll have a daily playoff as we've done before, EXCEPT: voting will be by post here, and it will be invite only- invites being restricted to those who are either directly involved in the draft, or people who tell us they want to be involved beforehand, and are vouched for by at least three drafters. Everyone else who attempts to vote will be ignored. And again, you have to post in the thread to make your vote.

What do you guys think?

If I'm not around, any suggestions which hint of either apathy or anarchy, gets my vote.Personally I would prefer no playoff matchups.

Although I prefer no judging at all, if we have it I'd rather leave it at that. No need to declare a "winner" through playoff matchups, which despite your best efforts will be manipulated anyway.

 

[krista4]

I've never read the book, but I did read the Wiki description. Never once is it described as a novel. I'm going to say Ok as non fiction.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, might want to re-check that. Read "Genre(s)" in table to the right.

Oops. You're right, I didn't see that. OK, this is ruled out as a nonfiction. You may take it as fiction or a wildcard, or repick.

I'd like to repick if I may. I already have too many choices as it is to select from for my remaining wildcard selections. Not sure what I want at the moment so I'll do the re-do later.Apologies for the inadvertent spotlight. I was thinking this fell under non-fiction much like Machiavelli's The Prince and other philosophical/political works.

I'm not sure why it couldn't.

 

[krista4]

These last two pages have been gold.

 

[Uncle Humuna]

I've never read the book, but I did read the Wiki description. Never once is it described as a novel. I'm going to say Ok as non fiction.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, might want to re-check that. Read "Genre(s)" in table to the right.

Oops. You're right, I didn't see that. OK, this is ruled out as a nonfiction. You may take it as fiction or a wildcard, or repick.

I'd like to repick if I may. I already have too many choices as it is to select from for my remaining wildcard selections. Not sure what I want at the moment so I'll do the re-do later.Apologies for the inadvertent spotlight. I was thinking this fell under non-fiction much like Machiavelli's The Prince and other philosophical/political works.

I'm not sure why it couldn't.

 

[krista4]

I'm not a fan of having a judging of the judges again. Though I "won" the ranking last time ( ), I wasn't a fan then either as I think it takes this whole thing to a level of silliness beyond where we've managed to go already. I'd seriously reconsider my willingness to judge any category if we're doing this.

 

[Doug B]

Getting these make-up picks in quick ... didn't see them in the OP:

42.16 - Showboat, Play [5]

43.5 - The Jazz Singer (1927), Movie [4]

 

[Doug B]

Dammit ... what did Misfit do now? :tsktsk:

 

[timschochet]

Good morning everyone. I've bought into your logic. We will keep this very simple. Judging each category, that's it. No contest afterwards. No judging of judges. Judges should give details and be willing to discuss and defend their rankings, in order to have a fun and interesting discussion. And that will be it.

 

[krista4]

Getting these make-up picks in quick ... didn't see them in the OP:

42.16 - Showboat, Play [5]

43.5 - The Jazz Singer (1927), Movie [4]

Showboat

 

[krista4]

tim, could we ask you to rethink your ruling on CIA's Zen choice? It seems at least Hummus, Postradamus, and I think it doesn't differ from other philosophical works drafted in non-fiction.

 

[krista4]

Good morning everyone. I've bought into your logic. We will keep this very simple. Judging each category, that's it. No contest afterwards. No judging of judges. Judges should give details and be willing to discuss and defend their rankings, in order to have a fun and interesting discussion. And that will be it.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I'm not a fan of having a judging of the judges again.

lol you guys did what now?

 

[Doug B]

2. We'll have a daily playoff as we've done before, EXCEPT: voting will be by post here, and it will be invite only- invites being restricted to those who are either directly involved in the draft, or people who tell us they want to be involved beforehand, and are vouched for by at least three drafters. Everyone else who attempts to vote will be ignored. And again, you have to post in the thread to make your vote. What do you guys think?

Anything but open FFA voting. The p:e:rps that ruined those votes would just repeat the same old.

 

[timschochet]

Showboat was an early musical by Hammerstein and his first partner, Jerome Kern. It featured the first Black singer in Broadway history, Paul Robeson, a former star college football player with a magnificent voice who later became a Communist and went to live in the Soviet Union. He is also featured in the first movie version.

It doesn't make my top ten musicals, mainly because I don't believe the quality of music and story is quite up there with the other musicals in the top ten. But obviously it represents a significant moment in American culture.

 

[Doug B]

Good morning everyone. I've bought into your logic. We will keep this very simple. Judging each category, that's it. No contest afterwards. No judging of judges. Judges should give details and be willing to discuss and defend their rankings, in order to have a fun and interesting discussion. And that will be it.

That works, too.

 

[PatsWillWin]

2. We'll have a daily playoff as we've done before, EXCEPT: voting will be by post here, and it will be invite only- invites being restricted to those who are either directly involved in the draft, or people who tell us they want to be involved beforehand, and are vouched for by at least three drafters. Everyone else who attempts to vote will be ignored. And again, you have to post in the thread to make your vote.

What do you guys think?

Anything but open FFA voting. The p:e:rps that ruined those votes would just repeat the same old.

Maybe you guys should start your own secret forum.

 

[El Floppo]

I would add to that, that instead of a judge just posting their rankings, that some discussion on them would help. For my categories I am going to post my tiers without rank and look for input on that, and then after I've gotten input show my initial, not set in stone, rankings and again look for feedback. Only after that step am I going to post my final rankings and be prepared to defend them accordingly if need be. In this exercise is where most of the fun will be anyway.

I hadnt thought about going this route, but I like it- will most definitely generate discussion... and ultimately, that'll be more entertaining/rewarding than "winning" (even though I've already got that wrapped up).

 

[Doug B]

Showboat was an early musical by Hammerstein and his first partner, Jerome Kern. It featured the first Black singer in Broadway history, Paul Robeson, a former star college football player with a magnificent voice who later became a Communist and went to live in the Soviet Union. He is also featured in the first movie version.

It doesn't make my top ten musicals, mainly because I don't believe the quality of music and story is quite up there with the other musicals in the top ten. But obviously it represents a significant moment in American culture.

There's a "musical" that I bet you'll like better that I considered here. Counter to my expectations, it seems not to be classified as a musical play at all upon further research. Thought that might cause a tizzy, so I put it off for now. Waiting to see if someone else takes it at some point.

 

[timschochet]

tim, could we ask you to rethink your ruling on CIA's Zen choice? It seems at least Hummus, Postradamus, and I think it doesn't differ from other philosophical works drafted in non-fiction.

I've never read it. But under the Wiki description, it clearly says, Philosophical Novel.Now that had to be pointed out to me. Under the actual description, there is no mention that it is a novel, and in fact it sounds like it is not a novel. So my original ruling was to let it stand.

I don't care one way or the other. Obviously it's not a traditional "novel", and really belongs more under discussion in the "non-fiction" category. But so long as somebody objects, then I don't see how I can allow it. There were at least 4 objections.

 

[timschochet]

Showboat was an early musical by Hammerstein and his first partner, Jerome Kern. It featured the first Black singer in Broadway history, Paul Robeson, a former star college football player with a magnificent voice who later became a Communist and went to live in the Soviet Union. He is also featured in the first movie version.

It doesn't make my top ten musicals, mainly because I don't believe the quality of music and story is quite up there with the other musicals in the top ten. But obviously it represents a significant moment in American culture.

There's a "musical" that I bet you'll like better that I considered here. Counter to my expectations, it seems not to be classified as a musical play at all upon further research. Thought that might cause a tizzy, so I put it off for now. Waiting to see if someone else takes it at some point.

Just want to add that I don't "dislike" Showboat. I've seen it on stage in a revival, and I enjoyed it. I just don't have it in my top ten.