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***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (2 Viewers)

I'm not sure I have a problem with the news organizations publishing the addresses of gun owners. It lets the criminals know which houses are going to be easy to invade, and which ones will have a gun pointed at them.
:lmao:
My linkLooks like others are feeling the same as I do.
I'm not sure what's better: the mealy-mouthness of simultaneously trying to say that this makes it more likely that a house not on this list will be robbed ("Easy target!!!") and that a house on this list will be targeted ("People can sell guns!!!") or that nobody discusses that this is a list of people with handgun permits which neither guarantees that they'll have a gun in their house (they could have the permit, and just not gotten a gun or sold it) or guarantees that someone on this list doesn't have a gun in their house (they could have a shotgun which they don't need a permit for).
 
nobody discusses that this is a list of people with handgun permits which neither guarantees that they'll have a gun in their house (they could have the permit, and just not gotten a gun or sold it) or guarantees that someone on this list doesn't have a gun in their house (they could have a shotgun which they don't need a permit for).
This sorta cuts both ways though. The list isn't that useful if it doesn't give a good approximation of who has guns.
 
If you don't want to help the criminals, you probably shouldn't be reposting that.Enabler.
I just wanted to point out one of your crazy hypotheticals.
What did you just point out?
That a map of gun owners could never be published since it was a crazy hypothetical, oh wait...
Where did I say that as one of my crazy hypotheticals?
short term memory problems?
Do you see these gun maps as a tool that could be used by criminals in the "home robbery" business? Both for picking soft targets as well as identifying targets that could have a substantial amount of valuables?
We probably should do away with income taxes. Filing that with the government just gives criminals a guidebook on who to rob. Or we could stop trying to guide our national policies on crazy hypotheticals that would never come true. But for this thread, I'll bet on the first one.
 
If you don't want to help the criminals, you probably shouldn't be reposting that.Enabler.
I just wanted to point out one of your crazy hypotheticals.
What did you just point out?
That a map of gun owners could never be published since it was a crazy hypothetical, oh wait...
Where did I say that as one of my crazy hypotheticals?
short term memory problems?
Do you see these gun maps as a tool that could be used by criminals in the "home robbery" business? Both for picking soft targets as well as identifying targets that could have a substantial amount of valuables?
We probably should do away with income taxes. Filing that with the government just gives criminals a guidebook on who to rob. Or we could stop trying to guide our national policies on crazy hypotheticals that would never come true. But for this thread, I'll bet on the first one.
The publishing of the map wasn't the crazy hypothetical part.ETA: Although I was more thinking of a gun registration list which would not have to be a matter of public record so would not be something so easily publishable.

 
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nobody discusses that this is a list of people with handgun permits which neither guarantees that they'll have a gun in their house (they could have the permit, and just not gotten a gun or sold it) or guarantees that someone on this list doesn't have a gun in their house (they could have a shotgun which they don't need a permit for).
This sorta cuts both ways though. The list isn't that useful if it doesn't give a good approximation of who has guns.
Sure, but I never defended the usefulness of the map. Although I would say that it is some approximation of gun ownership, moreso than something like owning a Volvo. Although come to think of it, owning a Volvo would probably be a pretty decent indicator, too.
 
I thought it was widely known Feinstein wants to ban all guns but that seems to not be the case.

This was back during the first AWB when she said this

That is sad. You need to wake up to reality. One world statist agenda is on the wish list of "public servants" like Feinstein. Go look at what just happened in Egypt for a dose of what will happen to America once these fools use the media to convince asleep at the wheel americans that turning in their guns and trusting despots is a good idea. My goodness.

 
Is there some reason we all think that these registrations can't be made private? Like taxes? Or are we all just ssuming they wikk be public.

 
'Henry Ford said:
Is there some reason people with gun permits thought that this information was supposed to be made private? Like taxes? Or are we all just assuming they will become public?
Fixed that for you.Currently there is no exemption in the FOIA and I have not read anything stating that a new exemption would be made if this legislation passes.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States)This isn't a new concern/issue:http://www.prairiestateoutdoors.com/index.php?/pso/article/attorney_general_illinois_should_release_foid_card_list/
 
'Power Monster said:
I thought it was widely known Feinstein wants to ban all guns but that seems to not be the case.

This was back during the first AWB when she said this

When you use the phrase "one world statist agenda" in reference to a centrist Dem like Feinstein, you show yourself to be extremist and lose all credibility. I'm betting youre also a Birther and that you fear the Blaxk Helicopters.
 
I have learned one thing with all this talk about guns, I did not have the correct load sequence in my Judge. Now the correct sequence for me is PDX1 for the first shot (more spread with the BB's than just 000 buck), 000 buck for the second shot (in case they only got hit with the bb's on first shot) .45long colt for third shot (in case you have to shoot though a wall or furniture) then finish up with two more rounds of 000 buck.

I want to thank Tim for helping me think about the sequencing of ammunition I want to use.

 
I have learned one thing with all this talk about guns, I did not have the correct load sequence in my Judge. Now the correct sequence for me is PDX1 for the first shot (more spread with the BB's than just 000 buck), 000 buck for the second shot (in case they only got hit with the bb's on first shot) .45long colt for third shot (in case you have to shoot though a wall or furniture) then finish up with two more rounds of 000 buck.

I want to thank Tim for helping me think about the sequencing of ammunition I want to use.

You're welcome. Please don't kill the next girl scout that rings your doorbell. Try to only wound her if you can.
 
I have learned one thing with all this talk about guns, I did not have the correct load sequence in my Judge. Now the correct sequence for me is PDX1 for the first shot (more spread with the BB's than just 000 buck), 000 buck for the second shot (in case they only got hit with the bb's on first shot) .45long colt for third shot (in case you have to shoot though a wall or furniture) then finish up with two more rounds of 000 buck.

I want to thank Tim for helping me think about the sequencing of ammunition I want to use.

Is penetration really adequate with shot from the Judge? I heard the short barrel didn't allow enough velocity for adequate depth of penetration. I always heard that #4 buck or smaller would be great for snake, or the like, but inadequate for larger targets. I'd stick with the long colt for defensive rounds in that gun. Review of Judge.
 
Was thinking about getting a few extra 30 rounds mags for my Glock 21 while they are still cheap(and legal).

If nothing else it's a good investment.

Might also grab another handgun but not sure what I want.I do love the Glock so I may stick with that.

 
'Henry Ford said:
Is there some reason people with gun permits thought that this information was supposed to be made private? Like taxes? Or are we all just assuming they will become public?
Fixed that for you.Currently there is no exemption in the FOIA and I have not read anything stating that a new exemption would be made if this legislation passes.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States)This isn't a new concern/issue:http://www.prairiestateoutdoors.com/index.php?/pso/article/attorney_general_illinois_should_release_foid_card_list/
I'm not talking about any current measures or bills. We're talking theoretical fixes in here.
 
I have learned one thing with all this talk about guns, I did not have the correct load sequence in my Judge. Now the correct sequence for me is PDX1 for the first shot (more spread with the BB's than just 000 buck), 000 buck for the second shot (in case they only got hit with the bb's on first shot) .45long colt for third shot (in case you have to shoot though a wall or furniture) then finish up with two more rounds of 000 buck.

I want to thank Tim for helping me think about the sequencing of ammunition I want to use.

The PDX1 has 3 discs in front of 12 BB's. My concern is on the first shot it may be in very quick response to a threat. If all 3 discs miss I want some kind of attention getter with the spread of the BB's. The 2nd shot is 000 buck and will be a quick followup after the PDX1. Watch the link, the first shot is PDX1 and the 2nd is 000 Buck. They are both devastating. I have seen that review numerous times, it was the reason I stayed away from the judge at first, but for a car gun, at short range it is by far my first choice of defense. I have seen hundreds of video reviews on the Judge. 000 buck will tear someone up at 21 feet or less and is my 1st choice. Thank you for your interest.

 
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I have learned one thing with all this talk about guns, I did not have the correct load sequence in my Judge. Now the correct sequence for me is PDX1 for the first shot (more spread with the BB's than just 000 buck), 000 buck for the second shot (in case they only got hit with the bb's on first shot) .45long colt for third shot (in case you have to shoot though a wall or furniture) then finish up with two more rounds of 000 buck.

I want to thank Tim for helping me think about the sequencing of ammunition I want to use.

Little girl came to the door a few hours ago selling GS cookies...Was awkward when I had to put my piece down to write down what I wanted. Her mom was horrified.
 
I thought it was widely known Feinstein wants to ban all guns but that seems to not be the case.

This was back during the first AWB when she said this

My dear fellow, I rebuke that notion. I hardly think that the concept of holding a "public servant" to protecting my Constitutional rights is akin to being an extremist. You lost all credibility here today. You sit here and support stooges like Feinstein and her ilk? Why they have done such a great job in their wonderful stats of California by driving it into a pit. To think that people like my grandfather and many other brave Americans fought for YOUR freedom on foreign soil just so folks like Feinstein can piss on the Constitution.

People better take care when they take an oath especially when they start suggesting treasonous ideas. Despots are dangerous and they have no interest in serving this country to protect American freedoms. They are self serving statists that will sell their very souls for global agendas. Start paying attention if you think there isn't a global agenda and snap out of it. Absolute power corrupts absolutely...

 
I thought it was widely known Feinstein wants to ban all guns but that seems to not be the case.

This was back during the first AWB when she said this

I give you so much credit for the sacrifice you... waait, your grandfather? You want some kind credibility because two generations ago someone whose middle name you probably don't know went and served?
 
http://wap.wsbtv.com/site.htm?targetUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsbtv.com%2Fnews%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fwoman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder%2FnTm7s%2F

This demonstrates why arbitrarily mandating any round capacity limit for magazines is a bad idea. The attacker was shot in the face and neck 5 times at point blank range and was still physically able to move, run away and drive meaning he had enough energy to attack the woman with the now empty gun had he wanted to or had there been accomplices. People, even well trained people, can miss. There are sometimes multiple targets (attackers). 1 shot does not equal 1 kill even at point blank range and many times it takes multiple direct hits to stop a single aggressive attacker. Mandating any magazine maximum capacities limits the ability of people to defend themselves without proving that it can demonstrably save enough lives to warrant implementing such a ban.

 
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http://wap.wsbtv.com/site.htm?targetUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsbtv.com%2Fnews%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fwoman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder%2FnTm7s%2FThis demonstrates why arbitrarily mandating any round capacity limit for magazines is a bad idea. The attacker was shot in the face and neck 5 times at point blank range and was still physically able to move, run away and drive meaning he had enough energy to attack the woman with the now empty gun had he wanted to or had there been accomplices. People, even well trained people, can miss. There are sometimes multiple targets (attackers). 1 shot does not equal 1 kill even at point blank range and many times it takes multiple direct hits to stop a single aggressive attacker. Mandating any magazine maximum capacities limits the ability of people to defend themselves without proving that it can demonstrably save enough lives to warrant implementing such a ban.
I've been told my many people here that half-blind, arthritic grandmothers can change out magazines in a matter of seconds with only 4 1/2 minutes of training so I don't see how this is a problem.Or only slightly more seriously, yes, anything which limits the number of people one of your Evil Persons can kill in a short amount of time will also limit the number of people a Good Person can kill in that same short amount of time. I don't see how that demonstrates the soundness of the policy one way or another.Not that anybody cares, but another 4 people died by gunfire today in Aurora, CO. But the real threat is the fascist government taking over The People unless they're armed to resist tyranny.
 
http://wap.wsbtv.com/site.htm?targetUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsbtv.com%2Fnews%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fwoman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder%2FnTm7s%2FThis demonstrates why arbitrarily mandating any round capacity limit for magazines is a bad idea. The attacker was shot in the face and neck 5 times at point blank range and was still physically able to move, run away and drive meaning he had enough energy to attack the woman with the now empty gun had he wanted to or had there been accomplices. People, even well trained people, can miss. There are sometimes multiple targets (attackers). 1 shot does not equal 1 kill even at point blank range and many times it takes multiple direct hits to stop a single aggressive attacker. Mandating any magazine maximum capacities limits the ability of people to defend themselves without proving that it can demonstrably save enough lives to warrant implementing such a ban.
I've been told my many people here that half-blind, arthritic grandmothers can change out magazines in a matter of seconds with only 4 1/2 minutes of training so I don't see how this is a problem.Or only slightly more seriously, yes, anything which limits the number of people one of your Evil Persons can kill in a short amount of time will also limit the number of people a Good Person can kill in that same short amount of time. I don't see how that demonstrates the soundness of the policy one way or another.Not that anybody cares, but another 4 people died by gunfire today in Aurora, CO. But the real threat is the fascist government taking over The People unless they're armed to resist tyranny.
:rolleyes:
 
http://wap.wsbtv.com/site.htm?targetUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsbtv.com%2Fnews%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fwoman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder%2FnTm7s%2FThis demonstrates why arbitrarily mandating any round capacity limit for magazines is a bad idea. The attacker was shot in the face and neck 5 times at point blank range and was still physically able to move, run away and drive meaning he had enough energy to attack the woman with the now empty gun had he wanted to or had there been accomplices. People, even well trained people, can miss. There are sometimes multiple targets (attackers). 1 shot does not equal 1 kill even at point blank range and many times it takes multiple direct hits to stop a single aggressive attacker. Mandating any magazine maximum capacities limits the ability of people to defend themselves without proving that it can demonstrably save enough lives to warrant implementing such a ban.
I've been told my many people here that half-blind, arthritic grandmothers can change out magazines in a matter of seconds with only 4 1/2 minutes of training so I don't see how this is a problem.Or only slightly more seriously, yes, anything which limits the number of people one of your Evil Persons can kill in a short amount of time will also limit the number of people a Good Person can kill in that same short amount of time. I don't see how that demonstrates the soundness of the policy one way or another.Not that anybody cares, but another 4 people died by gunfire today in Aurora, CO. But the real threat is the fascist government taking over The People unless they're armed to resist tyranny.
You don't know the difference between a .38 revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic do you.Your ignorance is astounding, but not surprising.
 
http://wap.wsbtv.com/site.htm?targetUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsbtv.com%2Fnews%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fwoman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder%2FnTm7s%2FThis demonstrates why arbitrarily mandating any round capacity limit for magazines is a bad idea. The attacker was shot in the face and neck 5 times at point blank range and was still physically able to move, run away and drive meaning he had enough energy to attack the woman with the now empty gun had he wanted to or had there been accomplices. People, even well trained people, can miss. There are sometimes multiple targets (attackers). 1 shot does not equal 1 kill even at point blank range and many times it takes multiple direct hits to stop a single aggressive attacker. Mandating any magazine maximum capacities limits the ability of people to defend themselves without proving that it can demonstrably save enough lives to warrant implementing such a ban.
I've been told my many people here that half-blind, arthritic grandmothers can change out magazines in a matter of seconds with only 4 1/2 minutes of training so I don't see how this is a problem.Or only slightly more seriously, yes, anything which limits the number of people one of your Evil Persons can kill in a short amount of time will also limit the number of people a Good Person can kill in that same short amount of time. I don't see how that demonstrates the soundness of the policy one way or another.Not that anybody cares, but another 4 people died by gunfire today in Aurora, CO. But the real threat is the fascist government taking over The People unless they're armed to resist tyranny.
By the way she is not half-blind but is arthritic and yes can change a magazine in seconds and if you were to pose a threat to her, my money would be on her. By a long shot. (pun intended)
 
http://wap.wsbtv.com...uder%2FnTm7s%2F

This demonstrates why arbitrarily mandating any round capacity limit for magazines is a bad idea. The attacker was shot in the face and neck 5 times at point blank range and was still physically able to move, run away and drive meaning he had enough energy to attack the woman with the now empty gun had he wanted to or had there been accomplices. People, even well trained people, can miss. There are sometimes multiple targets (attackers). 1 shot does not equal 1 kill even at point blank range and many times it takes multiple direct hits to stop a single aggressive attacker. Mandating any magazine maximum capacities limits the ability of people to defend themselves without proving that it can demonstrably save enough lives to warrant implementing such a ban.
I've been told my many people here that half-blind, arthritic grandmothers can change out magazines in a matter of seconds with only 4 1/2 minutes of training so I don't see how this is a problem.Or only slightly more seriously, yes, anything which limits the number of people one of your Evil Persons can kill in a short amount of time will also limit the number of people a Good Person can kill in that same short amount of time. I don't see how that demonstrates the soundness of the policy one way or another.

Not that anybody cares, but another 4 people died by gunfire today in Aurora, CO. But the real threat is the fascist government taking over The People unless they're armed to resist tyranny.
The difference is your evil guy, if he isn't illegally using high capacity magazines, will still have plenty of time to change out those magazines against his unarmed victims. He'll still kill the same number of victims.However, the good guy might get shot by the evil guy when he has to change out magazines because the evil guy,shockingly, will probably still be using high capacity magazines.

 
All this talk about limiting honest citizens access to guns, how much is being discussed about gang crimes and criminal ownership? What will any of these new laws do to help that? If we're going to talk gun laws I think that should be part of the equation.

 
All this talk about limiting honest citizens access to guns, how much is being discussed about gang crimes and criminal ownership? What will any of these new laws do to help that? If we're going to talk gun laws I think that should be part of the equation.
Registration suggestions are primarily aimed at weakening the black market for guns and making them more difficult for criminals to get.
 
Ok this is silly but what do grabbers say about this?My link. Honest answers appreciated. I really don't get it. If the goal is to stop deaths, why don't we try to stop this before taking away people's rights?

 
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Not that anyone cares

Mom shoots intruder 5 times

News

January 5, 2013

By: Effie Orfanides

An Atlanta, GA mom shot an intruder 5 times after he discovered the place where she and her children had been hiding. The woman, who remains unidentified, put her life on the line to protect her twins and her story has made national news. On Jan. 6, FOX 8 reported that a man broke into the woman's house and was shot by the woman when he approached the crawlspace where she and her kids were hiding.

"The alleged burglar, Paul Ali Slater, eventually found the family’s hiding space. The woman fired six shots, five of which struck Slater in the face and neck. The man fled the home and ran to a nearby home," FOX 8 reported. His injuries sound serious but, according to the report, he did not die.

The mom who shot the intruder 5 times obviously felt as though she needed to take extreme measures to keep her family safe. It is unknown if the intruder possessed any weapons or if he further threatened the family in any way. Regardless, the mom did what she had to do. She took matters in to her own hands as soon as he got close to her and her kids.

The mom and her twins were not injured in the incident according to the report. Although it was a very scary situation, it sounds like the mom did the right thing. She is definitely a hero to her kids and to other moms (and dads) who would do anything to keep their kids safe.

When a mom shoots an intruder 5 times, it is considered self-defense in most cases. It is highly unlikely that the woman will be charged.
My LinkSo she fired 5 rounds into this scumbag and he still was able to get away.

 
Whenever you guys get tired of arguing against largely fictitious opponents who want to take all of your guns away, we can return to discussing the pluses/minuses of reasonable gun control measures.

 
Whenever you guys get tired of arguing against largely fictitious opponents who want to take all of your guns away, we can return to discussing the pluses/minuses of reasonable gun control measures.
is largely fictitious?And here I thought she was a real person.

 
Whenever you guys get tired of arguing against largely fictitious opponents who want to take all of your guns away, we can return to discussing the pluses/minuses of reasonable gun control measures.
I don't understand what that video is supposed to prove. Feinstein was complaining that the AWB did not include assault weapons already owned. So what? And what does it have to do with my post?
 
FTR, I disagree with Senstor Feinstein about banning assault rifles. But she has always been very consistent in her position on this. She is a believer in the 2nd Amendment- banning these sorts of rifles has nothing to do with that amendment. Ms. Feinstein has never attempted to ban all firearms, nor has she ever been disingenuous about this issue (or any other issue I'm aware of.) She is a woman of high integrity and strong moral character, and I'm proud she is my senator.

 
Ok this is silly but what do grabbers say about this?My link. Honest answers appreciated. I really don't get it. If the goal is to stop deaths, why don't we try to stop this before taking away people's rights?
We all know the answer to this. The mass shooting is sensational. The mass shooting is a scary thought. Recently it was aimed at out most precious and defenseless. So what if it is a small percentage of our nation's murders. So what if you're more likely to be hit by lightening. It's terrifying and gets a hell of a lot more pub than the bar fight that ended with someone dead just because he was stabbed with a broken beer bottle, or hit his head too hard on the pavement after getting KO'd. EVERYONE wants to prevent mass shootings like this from happening again, especially at a school, but we have maybe a half dozen in the senate and a bunch more representatives who have been ONLY anti-gun their entire careers who jumped on this subject before the blood had dried. They went back to the same bills that have been shot down year after year by both parties, and have been seen as overboard and even ridiculous by the general public because they had a good tragedy to use. Aurora was still fresh in our minds when Sandy Hook happened and the anti-gun media and the anti-gun politicians were in our ears for hours and hours, day after day, week after week. It is an underhanded, brainwash tactic, that works very well on a population that is plugged into the media all day long (and quite a few of us in our sleep too -- just nod and smile if you go to sleep with the TV on). Now we can give our problem a name: Bushmaster. AR-15. Assault rifle. Large capacity magazine. Don't worry about the fact that any gun used in a crime covered by the left-wing media is an AR-15 if it has a pistol grip, or a black synthetic stock and/or handguard, or a detachable magazine capable of holding 30, 20, 10 or 6 rounds, or "a shoulder thing that goes up." Don't worry about the fact that they call almost any semi automatic pistol used in a crime a Glock, even if it was a SIG, or Walther, or Colt and whether or not it had a safety, or a magazine that held 33, 16, 10 or 6.It's sensationalism, and it works. It's been working since the Spanish-American War. Yellow journalism has become the standard, and these are the effects.

 
Ok this is silly but what do grabbers say about this?My link. Honest answers appreciated. I really don't get it. If the goal is to stop deaths, why don't we try to stop this before taking away people's rights?
We all know the answer to this. The mass shooting is sensational. The mass shooting is a scary thought. Recently it was aimed at out most precious and defenseless. So what if it is a small percentage of our nation's murders. So what if you're more likely to be hit by lightening. It's terrifying and gets a hell of a lot more pub than the bar fight that ended with someone dead just because he was stabbed with a broken beer bottle, or hit his head too hard on the pavement after getting KO'd. EVERYONE wants to prevent mass shootings like this from happening again, especially at a school, but we have maybe a half dozen in the senate and a bunch more representatives who have been ONLY anti-gun their entire careers who jumped on this subject before the blood had dried. They went back to the same bills that have been shot down year after year by both parties, and have been seen as overboard and even ridiculous by the general public because they had a good tragedy to use. Aurora was still fresh in our minds when Sandy Hook happened and the anti-gun media and the anti-gun politicians were in our ears for hours and hours, day after day, week after week. It is an underhanded, brainwash tactic, that works very well on a population that is plugged into the media all day long (and quite a few of us in our sleep too -- just nod and smile if you go to sleep with the TV on). Now we can give our problem a name: Bushmaster. AR-15. Assault rifle. Large capacity magazine. Don't worry about the fact that any gun used in a crime covered by the left-wing media is an AR-15 if it has a pistol grip, or a black synthetic stock and/or handguard, or a detachable magazine capable of holding 30, 20, 10 or 6 rounds, or "a shoulder thing that goes up." Don't worry about the fact that they call almost any semi automatic pistol used in a crime a Glock, even if it was a SIG, or Walther, or Colt and whether or not it had a safety, or a magazine that held 33, 16, 10 or 6.It's sensationalism, and it works. It's been working since the Spanish-American War. Yellow journalism has become the standard, and these are the effects.
:goodposting: I call it the Mob-ocracy at work.

 
Not that anyone cares

Mom shoots intruder 5 times

News

January 5, 2013

By: Effie Orfanides

An Atlanta, GA mom shot an intruder 5 times after he discovered the place where she and her children had been hiding. The woman, who remains unidentified, put her life on the line to protect her twins and her story has made national news. On Jan. 6, FOX 8 reported that a man broke into the woman's house and was shot by the woman when he approached the crawlspace where she and her kids were hiding.

"The alleged burglar, Paul Ali Slater, eventually found the family’s hiding space. The woman fired six shots, five of which struck Slater in the face and neck. The man fled the home and ran to a nearby home," FOX 8 reported. His injuries sound serious but, according to the report, he did not die.

The mom who shot the intruder 5 times obviously felt as though she needed to take extreme measures to keep her family safe. It is unknown if the intruder possessed any weapons or if he further threatened the family in any way. Regardless, the mom did what she had to do. She took matters in to her own hands as soon as he got close to her and her kids.

The mom and her twins were not injured in the incident according to the report. Although it was a very scary situation, it sounds like the mom did the right thing. She is definitely a hero to her kids and to other moms (and dads) who would do anything to keep their kids safe.

When a mom shoots an intruder 5 times, it is considered self-defense in most cases. It is highly unlikely that the woman will be charged.
My LinkSo she fired 5 rounds into this scumbag and he still was able to get away.
That's the type of handgun that were getting so many police killed that they made a move to 9mm, .45 and .40 caliber semi-auto handguns for duty use. .38 revolvers were quite often underpowered and under supplied to be reliable as a defensive weapon. Did it work? Sure. Plenty of times. Was it adequate? Not nearly. It needed to make a bigger hole at higher velocity and more follow up shots to make up for misses and ineffective hits. It's too bad that people think what is OK to save a cop's life is too good to save my kid's lives too.
 
FTR, I disagree with Senstor Feinstein about banning assault rifles. But she has always been very consistent in her position on this. She is a believer in the 2nd Amendment- banning these sorts of rifles has nothing to do with that amendment. Ms. Feinstein has never attempted to ban all firearms, nor has she ever been disingenuous about this issue (or any other issue I'm aware of.) She is a woman of high integrity and strong moral character, and I'm proud she is my senator.
:bs:
 
FTR, I disagree with Senstor Feinstein about banning assault rifles. But she has always been very consistent in her position on this. She is a believer in the 2nd Amendment- banning these sorts of rifles has nothing to do with that amendment. Ms. Feinstein has never attempted to ban all firearms, nor has she ever been disingenuous about this issue (or any other issue I'm aware of.) She is a woman of high integrity and strong moral character, and I'm proud she is my senator.
I think we're zeroing in on the problem. You're proud she's your senator? So, you're Californian too? Let me guess... San Francisco? Bay area at least? Or is it LA/SD? I'm starting to think this is less about Republican vs Democrat or even liberal vs conservative. I'm thinking this is more about urban vs suburban vs rural. No offense meant, and is only a generalization so doesn't apply to everyone, but I'd guess most of the anti-gun argument is coming from the cities where stricter gun policies have been an issue for a hundred years and so are more desensitized to these infringements. Most of the pro-gun crowd is from more rural areas where guns are more common than gun laws and the fence-riders are more suburban.ChopMeat, care to disclose? Cincinnati, or Cleveland?
 
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Be careful what you wish for, gun grabbers. Molon Labe.

If the statists push through with their plan, we’re possibly looking into a nation of a thousand Sarajevos and Groznys where a war will rip this nation to shreds and cause a horror from which we may never recover.

If you aren’t familiar with these analogies, allow me a moment to explain.

Once one of the most tolerant and ethnically-integrated cities in the world before the break-up of Yugoslavia, Sarajevo suffered the longest siege in modern military history, lasting 3 years, 10 months, 3 weeks and 3 days. The long and short of it is that the Serbs attacked Sarajevo with modern military weapons that included artillery, anti-aircraft guns, tanks, mortars, rockets, and the other nasty toys of a modern military in the possession of their 18,000 man army. Opposing them were roughly 70,000 poorly-armed Bosnian soldiers and militiamen armed with a hodgepodge of small arms including World War-era rifles, AK-47s, and hunting and formal target rifles.

The Siege of Sarajevo was a conflict of a heavily-armed but numerically inferior Serbian force against a lightly-armed but numerically superior Bosnian force. It became a sniper’s war, where innocent civilians bore the brunt of the brutality, terrorism, starvation, and death.

As noted in John West’s Fry The Brain: The Art of Urban Sniping and its Role in Modern Guerrilla Warfare, while the Serbians inflicted a significant number of casualties with a constant shelling of the city, a concerted effort was made by both sides to use relatively untrained snipers to shape the urban battlefield. Uniformed Serbian snipers didn’t just shoot Bosnian defenders of the city, but made a concerted effort to murder every man, woman and child in the city that crossed their path in an effort to terrorize Sarajevans into surrender. The Bosnians sniped back in a war that had former neighbors and friends killing one another.
 
Intentions...

2nd Amendment / Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in

Chris W. Cox

Published 4:00 am, Sunday, March 7, 2004

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/2nd-Amendment-Mr-and-Mrs-America-turn-them-2813319.php#ixzz2HDKQgXAv

The ban on semi-automatic firearms -- which an anti-gun Congress redefined as "assault weapons" in the 1994 crime bill -- will expire Sept. 13. A drumbeat has begun in the national media to "reauthorize" the ban, and some politicians are dancing to that familiar beat.

In the House, HR2038 has been introduced by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y. Instead of a "reauthorization" of the earlier ban, McCarthy wants to ban millions more guns and begin a backdoor national registration scheme. All told, HR2038 is a giant step closer to the goal stated by the assault-weapons ban sponsor, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., on CBS "60 Minutes": "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them -- Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in -- I would have done it."

"Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in." Those are the only words gun owners should ever need to remember. Never has the anti-gun agenda been stated more succinctly or more honestly. Now Feinstein is back trying to keep alive the ban inflicted on law-abiding Americans. Joined by comrades such as Sens. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., she introduced S1034, "Assault Weapons Ban Reauthorization Act of 2003." It makes the Clinton gun ban permanent and also bans the importation of large-capacity magazines.

Certainly Feinstein's bill is less "ambitious" than McCarthy's and undoubtedly will be portrayed as a "reasonable," and "common-sense" alternative by firearm-phobic editorial writers. The truth, of course, lies elsewhere, as Schumer confessed to the Los Angeles Times: "We know if we push it too far, we'll have no bill." Translation: "Don't threaten Mr. and Mrs. America too much." Don't remind them that the semi-automatic firearms they own for self-defense, hunting and target shooting function identically to those "assault weapons" you want to ban.

The "assault weapon" debate, as we saw in 1994, is ruled by emotion, not by fact, and therefore it was a tailor-made issue of the ethically challenged Clinton administration and its allies. But the truth can not be buried forever, not even in Washington. That's exactly why in the elections following enactment of the ban, gun owners went to the polls in great numbers and unseated the first speaker of the House in 134 years. That's why Bill Clinton told the Cleveland Plain Dealer: "the fight for the assault weapons ban cost 20 members their seats in Congress." That's why in March 1996, 239 members of the House of Representatives voted across party lines to repeal the Clinton gun ban.

The debate is not really about so-called "assault weapons." It's about banning guns. It's about gun prohibitionists searching for the easiest target of opportunity. They're going after guns claiming, without a shred of credible evidence, that these guns are the "weapons of choice" of criminals. It's a lie. A day after Clinton signed his gun-banning crime bill into law, a Washington Post editorial admitted: "Assault weapons play a part in only a small percentage of crime. The provision is mainly symbolic; its virtue will be if it turns out to be, as hoped, a stepping stone to broader gun control."

In the words of the radical Violence Policy Center: "The public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons -- anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun -- can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons." Machine guns were, of course, effectively banned in 1934.

Jacob Sullum, a senior editor at Reason magazine, captures the issue well: "The 'assault weapon' ban sets a dangerous precedent precisely because the justification for it is so weak. It suggests that you don't need a good reason to limit the right to keep and bear arms, and it invites further restrictions down the road. As far as the gun banners are concerned, that is the whole point."
You guys are refusing to admit that their intentions are aimed at all semiautomatic weapons (at a minimum) and are only proposing legislation that they have a chance in hell of getting passed. Gun registration is the tip of the iceberg and you are purposefully being oblivious if you claim you don't see it.
 
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'Cookiemonster said:
'timschochet said:
FTR, I disagree with Senstor Feinstein about banning assault rifles. But she has always been very consistent in her position on this. She is a believer in the 2nd Amendment- banning these sorts of rifles has nothing to do with that amendment. Ms. Feinstein has never attempted to ban all firearms, nor has she ever been disingenuous about this issue (or any other issue I'm aware of.) She is a woman of high integrity and strong moral character, and I'm proud she is my senator.
:bs:
Why is that B.S.? Where would you propose it stop? Or, are you in the camp/cult of folks who believe the 2nd Amendment is without exception and if folks want to own rocket launchers, hand grenades, missile launchers, nukes, etc. if they have the means. If you don't believe that, how is prohibition of such ownership not an infringement on individual rights?
 
'Cookiemonster said:
'timschochet said:
FTR, I disagree with Senstor Feinstein about banning assault rifles. But she has always been very consistent in her position on this. She is a believer in the 2nd Amendment- banning these sorts of rifles has nothing to do with that amendment. Ms. Feinstein has never attempted to ban all firearms, nor has she ever been disingenuous about this issue (or any other issue I'm aware of.) She is a woman of high integrity and strong moral character, and I'm proud she is my senator.
I think we're zeroing in on the problem. You're proud she's your senator? So, you're Californian too? Let me guess... San Francisco? Bay area at least? Or is it LA/SD? I'm starting to think this is less about Republican vs Democrat or even liberal vs conservative. I'm thinking this is more about urban vs suburban vs rural. No offense meant, and is only a generalization so doesn't apply to everyone, but I'd guess most of the anti-gun argument is coming from the cities where stricter gun policies have been an issue for a hundred years and so are more desensitized to these infringements. Most of the pro-gun crowd is from more rural areas where guns are more common than gun laws and the fence-riders are more suburban.ChopMeat, care to disclose? Cincinnati, or Cleveland?
I'm from Orange County. It's the conservative bastion of California. Chris Cox, who wrote the editorial someone just posted, is from Orange County. I agree with you that there are urban vs. rural divisions on this issue.
 
Anyhow, all of the 109 pages of this thread so far are a prologue. It's all based on speculation, and that includes Feinstein's proposed bill. Very shortly President Obama will give his State of the Union Address- at that time he will have the recommendations of Biden's group, and Obama will either make very specific proposals for new laws, or he won't. I suspect he will, and these proposals will include a ban on high capacity magazines and a closure of the private sales loophole. Once these proposals are made, then we can discuss the probability of their passage and whether or not they will be effective.

 

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