Slingblade
Footballguy
Won't happen.
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***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ATC1
- Start date
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
jonessed
Footballguy
He's pretty limited on what he can accomplish with an executive order. If it is anything substantial it will likely be appealed to the courts and even if it passes that test it will only be temporary in nature. Gun rights advocates should be ecstatic if this is all he can come up with.
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timschochet
Footballguy
I think ChopMeat and Slingblade are the same guy.
boots11234
Footballguy
I think this whole gun thing is a red herring. Sure the left wants to ban guns, old news, but this distracts both sides from the state of the economy. Everyone's taxes just went up (payroll tax), the Dems are discussing raising other taxes too and let me tell you you cannot support this level of government by only taxing the "rich". Yet everyone is worried about guns, or to be more precise when guns kill white people. Yet both Dems and repubs in the middle class are going to take it in the ###! Yet this distraction shifts focus from the real problems this country faces. Not to mention how EVERYONES healthcare premiums are going up double digits because of Obamacare. Yet we discuss banning ar15's which account for less then 1% of all gun deaths. Obama is a genius, fools everyone with this issue while we as a nation crumble. Wow.
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timschochet
Footballguy
If you go to FreeRepublic.com, you can find a lot of people who agree with you about this. Furthermore, they speculate that Obama planned the whole Newtown shootings with this in mind (and to take away everyone's guns.)
timschochet
Footballguy
He wants no restrictions whatsoever. You want all guns removed. Your contributions to the discussion are about the same, really.
boots11234
Footballguy
That's some crazy stuff, I'm no even going to dignify a response to it but it's tough to deny the state of the economy and increasing taxes the on middle class. Obama is too smart not to realize that this must happen in order to further his agenda. Sadly most middle class Dems don't and focus on GUNS GUNS GUNS! Genius really.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Actually, the problem has been not enough focus on reasonable restrictions on firearms. The Dems have been pretty acquiescent on this issue for quite some time. That's going to change. And, they are going to get plenty of help from Republicans, too. Sandy Hook changed things. Not a complete 180. But, I guarantee there will be far more widesweeping restrictions on firearm access than ever before. And, it's a direct result of Sandy Hook that there will be bipartisan support (albeit more Democrat than Republican, for sure).
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Mr Two Cents
Footballguy
317,000,000 as a conservative estimate.
boots11234
Footballguy
I will go on record here to say that not much will change after all is said and done. There are MANY dems who enjoy guns and will not fall for the hype. Which dem said about 10 years ago that the reason bush won was because of gun control attempts?. Dems should beware the fire or they will get burned.
jonessed
Footballguy
The fact that Obama had to come out with the executive order threat means they aren't getting much traction in Congress. Boehner obviously isn't going to bring anything up for a vote without majority Republican support so any legislation will have to overcome that hurdle.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Actually, if we wanted to do this as a nation, it wouldn't be that difficult. Here's how I would handle it:1. Once the law was passed, every gun owner would have 90 days to register with a national database. You could do this one of 3 ways: on the internet, by telephone, or at the post office. I would keep the fees cheap: $10 for a handgun, $25 for a rifle. You enter your name, address, type of weapon, and serial number. 2. Every year you would need to renew the registration for each firearm. 3. There will be NO police search without probable cause. However, after the 90 day period, if you are caught possessing an unregistered gun, you will have broken the law. First time, you pay $100 fine. Second time, it's a misdemeanor on your record, and the unregistered firearm(s) are seized. Very easy.
Mr Two Cents
Footballguy
Hope he tries to come up with all kinds of executive orders to bypass the 2nd Amendment. It would be the biggest mistake he could ever conceive of. If this happens you will see America as never before, he will lose the Senate easily in the 2014 elections.Talk about pissing in Middle Americas Cheerios, we would have an American Spring. Waking up a sleeping giant would seem to be the last thing he would want to do for his legacy. He would be treading on thin ice with America. The Tea Party had an historic impact in 2010 election, that would be nothing compared to this would bring in 2014.
Mr Two Cents
Footballguy
You really, really don't understand Tim, the vast majority of Americans would not register with a national database, even if you paid them $25 per gun and threatened 100 Million with jail. You seriously have no clue how seriously this would be taken. I will say this right here right now there is no way that a National Database would ever even get 10% of the weapons. You ever hit a wasps nest with a stick, that is what you are looking at doing.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I think you overestimate the craziness of the gun owners based on your own POV. Most are reasonable and want reasonable protections and restrictions. Not all of them are whack jobs.
Great now you are a whack job if you don't want to send the government every year another $35x however many guns you have. Liberals are power hungry tyrants. Save the ####### children my ###.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't think most people would disobey the law. If they did, they're crazier than I supposed. But I don't believe that will happen. My proof? In all of the countries that enjoy private ownership of guns, such as Israel, nobody seems to have a problem with this.
5 digit know nothing
Footballguy
yeah a per gun / annual tax aka penalty for owning something that we are rightfully entitled too will not fly
this just wreaks of big brother
it's not the solution
this just wreaks of big brother
it's not the solution
Why would the shooter be nervous and panicked?
Mr Two Cents
Footballguy
I believe you are incorrect and you should use the word passionate not crazy. Also we don't "enjoy private ownership" it is a Right granted to us by our Founding Fathers and not to be "infringed" upon by the state or federal government. You can have your background checks and your closing of the "gun show" loophole but you will not get a national or state database. Even Cuomo is not suggesting that and he vows "Cuomo Vows to ‘Enact the Toughest Assault Weapon Ban in the Nation, Period!’"
So put your pipe down and try to deal with reality, because you are NOT going to be happy when all is said and done. Because of "nutjobs" like you, America is arming at a pace never before seen. How many millions of high capacity magazines do you think have flown off the shelves in the last month?Here is an email I received just this evening:
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
I am not a liberal and certainly not power hungry. But, I do love children and most certainly blame the NRA and the Alex Jones crazies of the world for fostering conditions and environment that threatens them. There are reasonable measures regarding background checks, a national database, and limitations on the types of firearms that would be positive steps in the right direction. And, for their safety, my family's safety, and the safety of my neighbors, I'm tired of all the acquiescing to insane people in determining policy on firearms. And, for those concerned, the second amendment will survive, as it should.
Mr Two Cents
Footballguy
5 digit know nothing
Footballguy
Once they have sent the goverment $ and put in the national database we will all be safe.
timschochet
Footballguy
I simply refuse to believe that the majority of responsible gun owners in this country are as extremist and paranoid as some of the posters in this thread represent them to be, especially Mr. Two Cents and Slingblade. Guess we'll find out fairly quickly...
the moops
Footballguy
You pay taxes on a whole host of things that you own.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
This
Mr Two Cents
Footballguy
More good news for you Tim.
You say that like its a good thing.
timschochet
Footballguy
Guess they'll have to change the law then.
Mr Two Cents
Footballguy
Reality can really bite you in the backside can't it. Like Pelosi said we will find out what is in it after we pass it.
timschochet
Footballguy
If it's true, yet another reason I really dislike that law.
the moops
Footballguy
Don't think there was a hint of good or bad in my post. Just a fact.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
Lucky for us, more and more Americans have become much more educated on firearms in the last month and realize how asinine bans on firearms with specific cosmetic features would be.
5 digit know nothing
Footballguy
It's just another reason why gun owners will not comply."So you want to know about every gun I own AND you want to charge me for telling you AND you want to tax me on each one I report on an annual basis?"
You are nutty if you think the next line out of their mouths will be "Where do I sign up?"
Seriously this is the War on Drugs 2.0, except now people will be looking to buy guns illegally instead of drugs to avoid all of this costly red tape.
I'm really curious if this were to go through what the penalty would be for someone defending their life as well as their family's life with an unregistered weapon in their home, a weapon that never left their home, and was solely there for self defense.
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tommyboy
Footballguy
not really. You're so delusional you gloss over the fact that Obama has done all of the above and expanded Bush's anti-terror measures to include his own private kill list of drone strike recipients. But since there's a D next to his name, not important anymore
5 digit know nothing
Footballguy
This is what the gun grabbers (GGs) don't get. The GGs always think of guns in terms of cars. If a law gets passed that says you have to register your gun the GGs think of it like registering a car. Furthermore they think people are crazy if they disobey the law and not register their gun since they would be crazy to try to get away with this with their car. Well guess what? People aren't going around driving their guns around in the streets out in the open where Johnny Law can easily pull them over. Now that's not to say 100% of the gun owners won't comply, you'll get compliance just not anywhere near the numbers you are dreaming about.
Prison. They are criminals for not registering their weapons.
Slingblade
Footballguy
Gun stamps.
Blick
Footballguy
God bless her and her family. I'm sure she wishes it wouldn't have happened that way.I'm glad her and her family are safe.
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boots11234
Footballguy
Novice, this is a very misleading sentence. I'm guessing she unloaded the revolver in a matter of 1 to 2 seconds. She probably kept pulling the trigger even after it was empty, as is often the case in high stress shootings even with law enforcement. There is no way he would have had time to beg before she was finished filling his face full of lead. If that we're your wife and kids wouldn't you wish she would have done the same. Even if you don't like guns you have to acknowledge this is exactly how these types of situations are hoped to go down.
timschochet
Footballguy
Here are some facts regarding the private sales loophole from the Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence:
http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/guntrafficking#CityNY
PROBLEM: Weak U.S. gun laws make it easy for traffickers to divert guns from the legal market to the criminal market. Major trafficking channels include: 1) diversions directly from corrupt and negligent licensed gun dealers and 2) private sales exempt from Brady background checks at gun shows and elsewhere.DID YOU KNOW? Substantial numbers of guns are diverted from a relatively small number of corrupt and/or negligent gun dealers to the illegal market.
[*]Only 1 percent of gun dealers account for almost 60 percent of crime guns recovered by police and later traced (ATF, February 2000, p. A-23).
[*]94 percent of licensed dealers approached as part of undercover stings at gun shows in Ohio, Tennessee, and Nevada, completed sales to people who appeared to be criminals or straw purchasers (Mayors Against Illegal Guns, p. 7).
[*]A survey of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) trafficking investigations over an 18-month period showed:
- 40,365 guns trafficked directly by corrupt or negligent gun dealers (ATF, June 2000, p. 13)
- 25,741 guns trafficked by straw purchasers buying guns at corrupt or negligent gun dealers (ATF, June 2000, p. 13).
[*]In one year, at least 30,000 guns were “lost” out of gun dealer inventories (Brady Center, 2008).
[*]Many guns are recovered in crime shortly after their first retail purchase. Thirty-four (34) percent of crime guns recovered in 1999 had been purchased new at a gun dealer within the past 3 years. (Pierce, p. 38). A short “time-to-crime” is regarded by ATF as a strong indicator that a gun has been trafficked (ATF, February 2000, p. 22).
[*]Guns with a short “time-to-crime” are disproportionately represented among crime guns. Guns manufactured and sold 3 years prior to recovery by police in crime make up 34 percent of recovered and traced crime guns, but only 14 percent of the U.S. gunstock. (Pierce, p. 38).
[*]Guns sold as part of a multiple sale at a gun dealer (more than one gun at a time), were up to 64 percent more likely to be used in crime than guns not part of such sales (Koper, p. 6).
DID YOU KNOW? Private sales exempt from Brady background checks are a substantial problem in trafficking of guns from the legal to the illegal market:
[*]63 percent of private sellers approached as part of undercover stings at gun shows in Ohio, Tennessee, and Nevada, sold guns to purchasers who stated they probably could not pass a background check (Mayors Against Illegal Guns, p. 6).
[*]“No-check” sales account for an estimated 40 percent of gun sales in the U.S. (National Institute of Justice).
[*]ATF gun trafficking investigations revealed that over an 18-month period:
- Trafficking by unregulated private sellers accounted for 22,508 guns (ATF, June 2000, p. 13);
- Trafficking in firearms at gun shows and flea markets, where background checks are not required for every sale, accounted for 25,862 guns (ATF, June 2000, p. 13).
[*]You can see direct photographic and video evidence of assault weapons and other guns for sale without background checks at gun shows from multiple sources:
- Virginia Tech survivor Colin Goddard visited gun shows in the summer of 2009 and caught
.To see a diagram of gun trafficking, click here.
SOLUTION: We make it too easy for dangerous people to obtain dangerous weapons. There are only a few gun control laws on the books, and even those have loopholes. We should make it harder for convicted felons, the dangerously mentally ill, and youth to get the guns in the first place. We can do this by passing effective laws that make sense.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/guntrafficking#CityNY
PROBLEM: Weak U.S. gun laws make it easy for traffickers to divert guns from the legal market to the criminal market. Major trafficking channels include: 1) diversions directly from corrupt and negligent licensed gun dealers and 2) private sales exempt from Brady background checks at gun shows and elsewhere.DID YOU KNOW? Substantial numbers of guns are diverted from a relatively small number of corrupt and/or negligent gun dealers to the illegal market.
[*]Only 1 percent of gun dealers account for almost 60 percent of crime guns recovered by police and later traced (ATF, February 2000, p. A-23).
[*]94 percent of licensed dealers approached as part of undercover stings at gun shows in Ohio, Tennessee, and Nevada, completed sales to people who appeared to be criminals or straw purchasers (Mayors Against Illegal Guns, p. 7).
[*]A survey of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) trafficking investigations over an 18-month period showed:
- 40,365 guns trafficked directly by corrupt or negligent gun dealers (ATF, June 2000, p. 13)
- 25,741 guns trafficked by straw purchasers buying guns at corrupt or negligent gun dealers (ATF, June 2000, p. 13).
[*]In one year, at least 30,000 guns were “lost” out of gun dealer inventories (Brady Center, 2008).
[*]Many guns are recovered in crime shortly after their first retail purchase. Thirty-four (34) percent of crime guns recovered in 1999 had been purchased new at a gun dealer within the past 3 years. (Pierce, p. 38). A short “time-to-crime” is regarded by ATF as a strong indicator that a gun has been trafficked (ATF, February 2000, p. 22).
[*]Guns with a short “time-to-crime” are disproportionately represented among crime guns. Guns manufactured and sold 3 years prior to recovery by police in crime make up 34 percent of recovered and traced crime guns, but only 14 percent of the U.S. gunstock. (Pierce, p. 38).
[*]Guns sold as part of a multiple sale at a gun dealer (more than one gun at a time), were up to 64 percent more likely to be used in crime than guns not part of such sales (Koper, p. 6).
DID YOU KNOW? Private sales exempt from Brady background checks are a substantial problem in trafficking of guns from the legal to the illegal market:
[*]63 percent of private sellers approached as part of undercover stings at gun shows in Ohio, Tennessee, and Nevada, sold guns to purchasers who stated they probably could not pass a background check (Mayors Against Illegal Guns, p. 6).
[*]“No-check” sales account for an estimated 40 percent of gun sales in the U.S. (National Institute of Justice).
[*]ATF gun trafficking investigations revealed that over an 18-month period:
- Trafficking by unregulated private sellers accounted for 22,508 guns (ATF, June 2000, p. 13);
- Trafficking in firearms at gun shows and flea markets, where background checks are not required for every sale, accounted for 25,862 guns (ATF, June 2000, p. 13).
[*]You can see direct photographic and video evidence of assault weapons and other guns for sale without background checks at gun shows from multiple sources:
- Virginia Tech survivor Colin Goddard visited gun shows in the summer of 2009 and caught
.To see a diagram of gun trafficking, click here.
SOLUTION: We make it too easy for dangerous people to obtain dangerous weapons. There are only a few gun control laws on the books, and even those have loopholes. We should make it harder for convicted felons, the dangerously mentally ill, and youth to get the guns in the first place. We can do this by passing effective laws that make sense.
timschochet
Footballguy
According to today's Washington Post:
Mr. Obama supports steps including reinstating a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines and closing loopholes that enable many gun buyers to avoid background checks. But the White House will likely recommend that Congress go further by requiring universal background checks for gun buyers and establishing a national gun database, reports CBS News White House correspondent Bill Plante. Senior administration officials tell CBS News the president is likely to unveil his ideas to reduce gun violence next week. He will also push his gun control agenda in his State of the Union address next month.
Not a fan of the ban, but major
on the rest of it.
Mr. Obama supports steps including reinstating a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines and closing loopholes that enable many gun buyers to avoid background checks. But the White House will likely recommend that Congress go further by requiring universal background checks for gun buyers and establishing a national gun database, reports CBS News White House correspondent Bill Plante. Senior administration officials tell CBS News the president is likely to unveil his ideas to reduce gun violence next week. He will also push his gun control agenda in his State of the Union address next month.
Not a fan of the ban, but major
on the rest of it.
