***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (3 Viewers)

[moleculo]

Listen, I'm a gun owner, but I'm also open to discussing ideas and not outright pulling an Otis or NRA stance of just crossing my arms and screaming NO to all proposals.

Gun dude lie again. I've considered other compromises. And my original position was never "NO GUNS."

lol...now you are mischaracterizing yourself. Your original position was "Just ban the ####### things."

 

[Otis]

For my GB, Otis:

Rapist shot in the eye

An Ohio man accused of raping a woman at gunpoint appeared in court wearing a bandage over his right eye — an injury suffered after police say the woman shot him in the face before escaping.

I can't fact check all these, but here's the first one I looked at:

That’s where Portman allegedly held a gun to the woman’s head and[..]d her at around 3 a.m. on Sept. 2. But she was able to pry the weapon from him and fire at his face, WKEF said.

 

[ATC1]

As somebody else already pointed out in his case mine was exactly the same in that we had a retired police officer who was in charge of student safety and various other problems that may have occured at the school and he was packing heat.Never once was it an issue and in all honesty it became second nature to see him walking the halls and the parking lot.We all just accepted it and knew if #### hit the fan you would have to deal with him.

Is he uniformed?

 

[tom22406]

As somebody else already pointed out in his case mine was exactly the same in that we had a retired police officer who was in charge of student safety and various other problems that may have occured at the school and he was packing heat.Never once was it an issue and in all honesty it became second nature to see him walking the halls and the parking lot.We all just accepted it and knew if #### hit the fan you would have to deal with him.

Is he uniformed?

Not in our county police ones but yes he did wear a uniform.

 

[tom22406]

Listen, I'm a gun owner, but I'm also open to discussing ideas and not outright pulling an Otis or NRA stance of just crossing my arms and screaming NO to all proposals.

Gun dude lie again. I've considered other compromises. And my original position was never "NO GUNS."

lol...now you are mischaracterizing yourself. Your original position was "Just ban the ####### things."

He has posted so much he forgets half of it

 

[Otis]

Listen, I'm a gun owner, but I'm also open to discussing ideas and not outright pulling an Otis or NRA stance of just crossing my arms and screaming NO to all proposals.

Gun dude lie again. I've considered other compromises. And my original position was never "NO GUNS."

lol...now you are mischaracterizing yourself. Your original position was "Just ban the ####### things."

That's a heated comment. Go read my dozen other posts on the subject re: what I thought was a sensible resolution. I'm not spending my time digging back because you don't care to.

 

[Otis]

Good to see Joe Bryant on board with reality here too, via today's Random Shots

We have enough momentum that we'll be able to improve things in this country a bit regardless of the speed bumps who are too selfish to want that.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

I don't think I have ever seen Otis hipple a thread.

 

[moleculo]

Listen, I'm a gun owner, but I'm also open to discussing ideas and not outright pulling an Otis or NRA stance of just crossing my arms and screaming NO to all proposals.

Gun dude lie again. I've considered other compromises. And my original position was never "NO GUNS."

lol...now you are mischaracterizing yourself. Your original position was "Just ban the ####### things."

That's a heated comment. Go read my dozen other posts on the subject re: what I thought was a sensible resolution. I'm not spending my time digging back because you don't care to.

OIC, heated comments don't count. I did not know that. Moving forward, can you please let me know what is a heated comment and what is rational discussion? Not sure what OtisComments should be taken seriously.

 

[Otis]

I don't think I have ever seen Otis Hipple a thread.

I've actually been doing it a lot in this one. This thread is just too long and convoluted, I don't have nearly the time to devote to keep up with it.

 

[Otis]

Listen, I'm a gun owner, but I'm also open to discussing ideas and not outright pulling an Otis or NRA stance of just crossing my arms and screaming NO to all proposals.

Gun dude lie again. I've considered other compromises. And my original position was never "NO GUNS."

lol...now you are mischaracterizing yourself. Your original position was "Just ban the ####### things."

That's a heated comment. Go read my dozen other posts on the subject re: what I thought was a sensible resolution. I'm not spending my time digging back because you don't care to.

OIC, heated comments don't count. I did not know that. Moving forward, can you please let me know what is a heated comment and what is rational discussion? Not sure what OtisComments should be taken seriously.

If you'd been reading the thread I promise it wouldn't be difficult for you at all.

 

[Otis]

By the way...



TACTICAL!

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Reading through bits and of this thread I find it comical some people's frame of mind and how they view guns.

I live in Canada and don't own a gun. I have the right to own a gun however by choice I don't feel the need to own one. My dad owns a couple of rifles that he uses for hunting, but in no way does my dad see the gun as a way to defend himself or feel the need to carry it on him to defend himself against other human life. The fact that many are defending that right as the reason to own a gun is dumb.

The fact that many citizens in the states walk around with a gun on them or in their vehicle just because is ridiculous and gross. I don't care if it is your right, it is just plain wrong.

What type of a life does one lead in America where they feel they need to own a gun that they will shoot at another person to defend themselves? Seriously!? Seriously some of you on here actually walk around feeling more safe because you have that gun on you?

Many on here are saying that you can't stop crazy people killing so taking out more guns would not matter. I am sure it has been mentioned periodically through this whole thread but if someone wanted to kill you yourself, your gun would not do you any good either. That person would shoot you before you shot them. There is something clearly wrong with your society if you feel the need to own a gun for self defence.

People should be able to own certain type of guns, but the laws should be much more strict then they are now and the main purpose of those guns should be used for hunting. No average joe in today's America should own a gun with the sole purpose of protecting themselves. That is a definitely a society that needs to change its way of thinking if that is the case.

I don't know one friend of mine that owns a gun in Canada for the purpose of defending themselves. The quicker Americans realize that backward level of thinking the better off you will be.

 

[moleculo]

By the way...



TACTICAL!

gonna judge this one as a heated comment on the basis of font size.

 

[Gr00vus]

Some food for thought (sorry if this was posted already), here's a Slate article on technologies to make guns safer, and some opinion on why such things haven't been adopted yet.

What would the problems be with a grip recognition based firing restrictor, or the rfid proximity restrictor?

 

[ATC1]

Reading through bits and of this thread I find it comical some people's frame of mind and how they view guns.I live in Canada and don't own a gun. I have the right to own a gun however by choice I don't feel the need to own one. My dad owns a couple of rifles that he uses for hunting, but in no way does my dad see the gun as a way to defend himself or feel the need to carry it on him to defend himself against other human life. The fact that many are defending that right as the reason to own a gun is dumb. The fact that many citizens in the states walk around with a gun on them or in their vehicle just because is ridiculous and gross. I don't care if it is your right, it is just plain wrong.What type of a life does one lead in America where they feel they need to own a gun that they will shoot at another person to defend themselves? Seriously!? Seriously some of you on here actually walk around feeling more safe because you have that gun on you? Many on here are saying that you can't stop crazy people killing so taking out more guns would not matter. I am sure it has been mentioned periodically through this whole thread but if someone wanted to kill you yourself, your gun would not do you any good either. That person would shoot you before you shot them. There is something clearly wrong with your society if you feel the need to own a gun for self defence.People should be able to own certain type of guns, but the laws should be much more strict then they are now and the main purpose of those guns should be used for hunting. No average joe in today's America should own a gun with the sole purpose of protecting themselves. That is a definitely a society that needs to change its way of thinking if that is the case. I don't know one friend of mine that owns a gun in Canada for the purpose of defending themselves. The quicker Americans realize that backward level of thinking the better off you will be.

I wish I lived in Canada and thought like you. I really do. It's too cold there.

 

[kentric]

Reading through bits and of this thread I find it comical some people's frame of mind and how they view guns.I live in Canada and don't own a gun. I have the right to own a gun however by choice I don't feel the need to own one. My dad owns a couple of rifles that he uses for hunting, but in no way does my dad see the gun as a way to defend himself or feel the need to carry it on him to defend himself against other human life. The fact that many are defending that right as the reason to own a gun is dumb. The fact that many citizens in the states walk around with a gun on them or in their vehicle just because is ridiculous and gross. I don't care if it is your right, it is just plain wrong.What type of a life does one lead in America where they feel they need to own a gun that they will shoot at another person to defend themselves? Seriously!? Seriously some of you on here actually walk around feeling more safe because you have that gun on you? Many on here are saying that you can't stop crazy people killing so taking out more guns would not matter. I am sure it has been mentioned periodically through this whole thread but if someone wanted to kill you yourself, your gun would not do you any good either. That person would shoot you before you shot them. There is something clearly wrong with your society if you feel the need to own a gun for self defence.People should be able to own certain type of guns, but the laws should be much more strict then they are now and the main purpose of those guns should be used for hunting. No average joe in today's America should own a gun with the sole purpose of protecting themselves. That is a definitely a society that needs to change its way of thinking if that is the case. I don't know one friend of mine that owns a gun in Canada for the purpose of defending themselves. The quicker Americans realize that backward level of thinking the better off you will be.

Methinks too many of us saw the original Red Dawn movie at an impressionable age.

 

[butcher boy]

I want to see a chart that tracks gun ownership measured against average penis size by region. I think it would be very telling.

 

[kentric]

I want to see a chart that tracks gun ownership measured against average penis size by region. I think it would be very telling.

Might as well add type of car in there while we're at it.

 

[BassNBrew]

I want to see a chart that tracks gun ownership measured against average penis size by region. I think it would be very telling.

I'd prefer to see a chart depicting ownership measured against boob size. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Power Monster]

I didn't have Power Monster as a BGP alias, did any of you?

My notebook says he goes bat**** crazy from time to time, and then surprises you at other times with his normalness. Just when you start to feel comfortable, he goes and does this again.

Normal? Comfortable? Doesn't it get old thinking that you are appeasing a group of people with opinions on a message board? Comfortable? I am assuming that being comfortable is letting a pack of self serving government theives surround you with a path of freedom and security. In the state that I live in it is taxes upon more taxes and two of the last three governors going to the big house and 1 state rep that became president starting a civil war that turned America into a corporation. Lessons in NEVER to trust "public servants". This nation has failed miserably when it comes to morality and this nation has failed miserably when it comes to checks and balances on a spend happy corrupt beyond belief elect of despots. Looks like I am crazy for seeing facts as they are. Maybe I just don't get it- truth and honesty and being decent to fellow man and woman is just out of touch?

 

[Otis]

By the way...



TACTICAL!

gonna judge this one as a heated comment on the basis of font size.

xThis one is for good clean fun.

 

[Otis]

Reading through bits and of this thread I find it comical some people's frame of mind and how they view guns.I live in Canada and don't own a gun. I have the right to own a gun however by choice I don't feel the need to own one. My dad owns a couple of rifles that he uses for hunting, but in no way does my dad see the gun as a way to defend himself or feel the need to carry it on him to defend himself against other human life. The fact that many are defending that right as the reason to own a gun is dumb. The fact that many citizens in the states walk around with a gun on them or in their vehicle just because is ridiculous and gross. I don't care if it is your right, it is just plain wrong.What type of a life does one lead in America where they feel they need to own a gun that they will shoot at another person to defend themselves? Seriously!? Seriously some of you on here actually walk around feeling more safe because you have that gun on you? Many on here are saying that you can't stop crazy people killing so taking out more guns would not matter. I am sure it has been mentioned periodically through this whole thread but if someone wanted to kill you yourself, your gun would not do you any good either. That person would shoot you before you shot them. There is something clearly wrong with your society if you feel the need to own a gun for self defence.People should be able to own certain type of guns, but the laws should be much more strict then they are now and the main purpose of those guns should be used for hunting. No average joe in today's America should own a gun with the sole purpose of protecting themselves. That is a definitely a society that needs to change its way of thinking if that is the case. I don't know one friend of mine that owns a gun in Canada for the purpose of defending themselves. The quicker Americans realize that backward level of thinking the better off you will be.

Amen. There are a few issues that I think are really embarrassing for the US these days. The gun thing and the attitude and culture underlying it has to be a big one.

 

[butcher boy]

I just read this.

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20121220/stray.bullet.shooting/?cid=hero_media_SFO

Made me want to ask the question, those of you who like walking around in public with guns with an intent to use them if needed as self defense, can you guarantee that you'd never miss your target, thus sending your bullet off to potentially hit someone else? Can you guarantee your bullet will not go through whatever it is you're shooting at and do the same thing?

 

[Otis]

I want to see a chart that tracks gun ownership measured against average penis size by region. I think it would be very telling.

Might as well add type of car in there while we're at it.

If we're taking requests, please add I.Q. I'd be curious.

 

[Mad Cow]

I just read this.http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20121220/stray.bullet.shooting/?cid=hero_media_SFOMade me want to ask the question, those of you who like walking around in public with guns with an intent to use them if needed as self defense, can you guarantee that you'd never miss your target, thus sending your bullet off to potentially hit someone else? Can you guarantee your bullet will not go through whatever it is you're shooting at and do the same thing?

Nope, and there are many dead civilians at the hands of cops missing, as well. The deaths from that shootout in NYC not too long ago were all from cops if my memory serves me, most of them bystanders.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I want to see a chart that tracks gun ownership measured against average penis size by region. I think it would be very telling.

I'll send you a pic.

 

[Mad Cow]

I want to see a chart that tracks gun ownership measured against average penis size by region. I think it would be very telling.

Might as well add type of car in there while we're at it.

If we're taking requests, please add I.Q. I'd be curious.

You ever buy that really big expensive 1911 handgun you were jonesing for in our other thread Otis? Just curious given your interest in this chart.

 

[butcher boy]

I just read this.http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20121220/stray.bullet.shooting/?cid=hero_media_SFOMade me want to ask the question, those of you who like walking around in public with guns with an intent to use them if needed as self defense, can you guarantee that you'd never miss your target, thus sending your bullet off to potentially hit someone else? Can you guarantee your bullet will not go through whatever it is you're shooting at and do the same thing?

Nope, and there are many dead civilians at the hands of cops missing, as well. The deaths from that shootout in NYC not too long ago were all from cops if my memory serves me, most of them bystanders.

Right, so cops missing is a problem, but we kind of need cops. Why do we need to increase the problem by having more civilians wear guns?

 

[17seconds]

Once again.. it's amazing the amount of trust the right wing suddenly has in people once they are legal gun owners.

So legal gun owners are more likely to use that gun violently?

:whoosh:

 

[Power Monster]

I didn't have Power Monster as a BGP alias, did any of you?

My notebook says he goes bat**** crazy from time to time, and then surprises you at other times with his normalness. Just when you start to feel comfortable, he goes and does this again.

Thankfully he's armed.

Just think of where this country would be if it weren't for patriots like him with a small arsenal at home

Try again- I don't even own a gun. I pay my taxes. I have never been arrested. I have no debt because I am a good steward with my money. Patriot? I am certain that you enjoy the freedom of this country but HEY- if you choose to reject your Constitution which was bought with a price have at it. There are plenty of people that will stand in the gap for now. However, I am afraid that the battle will be lost as the mind set of the generations coming of age will be so indoctrinated by the media and the educational system that they will reject the foundations of America; the bond of the family unit; understanding the value of decency; embracing the concept of working hard and being a good steward with wealth and recognizing that being lazy, lustful, free loading, dark and twisted and lovers of things that are demonic and violent is just a path of destructive. You can mock me all you want. Mark my words- we will live to see pure globalism and that means the Constitution will have to go. Global political despots are positioning these events to happe. You will laugh and have some good fun with all your FBG buddies but you cannot argue against truth. By the time you figure it all out you will either gnash your teeth or embrace it as your gospel. All I can say is that I wish you well.

 

[Limp Ditka]

 

[Apple Jack]

I didn't have Power Monster as a BGP alias, did any of you?

My notebook says he goes bat**** crazy from time to time, and then surprises you at other times with his normalness. Just when you start to feel comfortable, he goes and does this again.

Thankfully he's armed.

Just think of where this country would be if it weren't for patriots like him with a small arsenal at home

Try again- I don't even own a gun. I pay my taxes. I have never been arrested. I have no debt because I am a good steward with my money. Patriot? I am certain that you enjoy the freedom of this country but HEY- if you choose to reject your Constitution which was bought with a price have at it. There are plenty of people that will stand in the gap for now. However, I am afraid that the battle will be lost as the mind set of the generations coming of age will be so indoctrinated by the media and the educational system that they will reject the foundations of America; the bond of the family unit; understanding the value of decency; embracing the concept of working hard and being a good steward with wealth and recognizing that being lazy, lustful, free loading, dark and twisted and lovers of things that are demonic and violent is just a path of destructive. You can mock me all you want. Mark my words- we will live to see pure globalism and that means the Constitution will have to go. Global political despots are positioning these events to happe. You will laugh and have some good fun with all your FBG buddies but you cannot argue against truth. By the time you figure it all out you will either gnash your teeth or embrace it as your gospel. All I can say is that I wish you well.

Hey, don't look at us, it was those crazies in 1791 that defiled the Constitution with all their "amendments." Effin' traitors.

 

[Otis]

I want to see a chart that tracks gun ownership measured against average penis size by region. I think it would be very telling.

Might as well add type of car in there while we're at it.

If we're taking requests, please add I.Q. I'd be curious.

You ever buy that really big expensive 1911 handgun you were jonesing for in our other thread Otis? Just curious given your interest in this chart.

Negative. Did further research, further considered the risks of having a gun in my home, and came to my senses.

 

[Otis]

Holy smokes.

 

[Power Monster]

I didn't have Power Monster as a BGP alias, did any of you?

My notebook says he goes bat**** crazy from time to time, and then surprises you at other times with his normalness. Just when you start to feel comfortable, he goes and does this again.

Thankfully he's armed.

Just think of where this country would be if it weren't for patriots like him with a small arsenal at home

Try again- I don't even own a gun. I pay my taxes. I have never been arrested. I have no debt because I am a good steward with my money. Patriot? I am certain that you enjoy the freedom of this country but HEY- if you choose to reject your Constitution which was bought with a price have at it. There are plenty of people that will stand in the gap for now. However, I am afraid that the battle will be lost as the mind set of the generations coming of age will be so indoctrinated by the media and the educational system that they will reject the foundations of America; the bond of the family unit; understanding the value of decency; embracing the concept of working hard and being a good steward with wealth and recognizing that being lazy, lustful, free loading, dark and twisted and lovers of things that are demonic and violent is just a path of destructive. You can mock me all you want. Mark my words- we will live to see pure globalism and that means the Constitution will have to go. Global political despots are positioning these events to happe. You will laugh and have some good fun with all your FBG buddies but you cannot argue against truth. By the time you figure it all out you will either gnash your teeth or embrace it as your gospel. All I can say is that I wish you well.

Hey, don't look at us, it was those crazies in 1791 that defiled the Constitution with all their "amendments." Effin' traitors.

Defiling? Interesting assumption...

 

[Henry Ford]

For my GB, Otis:

New Mexico woman shot intruder

Sandoval grabbed a knife, put the knife to her chin and told her to take off her clothes. The woman told deputies she then reached under her pillow, grabbed a loaded gun and shot him. She fled from her home and called 911.

Officials say Sandoval died at the scene.

No charges have been filed.

Accused Rapist Shot

No charges will be filed against the Cape Girardeau woman who shot and killed a registered sex offender trying to break back into her home.

Rapist shot in the eye

An Ohio man accused of raping a woman at gunpoint appeared in court wearing a bandage over his right eye — an injury suffered after police say the woman shot him in the face before escaping.

28-year-old woman forced to shoot and kill intruder Lisa Goude called police when she noticed a man lurking outside her house at about 1:15 a.m. Just two minutes into the call, the man broke through the glass of a kitchen window and entered the home.

The 28-year-old intruder refused to leave and attempted to enter Goude’s bedroom.

Goude retrieved a handgun and shot the man once before instructing him to leave her home once again. Despite suffering a gunshot wound, the intruder reportedly came at Goude causing her to fire two more rounds.

After suffering two gunshots to the neck and one to the abdomen, the intruder was pronounced dead at the scene.

That last link has 80 pages archiving similar.

DGUs (defensive gun uses) are worth understanding. A DGU is any use by a civilian of a gun, including verbal warnings and just showing the weapon, along with pulling and firing the weapon in thwarting a crime in progress. Some NRA shill did empirical polling and extrapolated an often cited 2.5 million annual DGUs. It is a bogus number. Again the anti gun CDC did their own independent research and claimed only a half million successful DGUs annually. It's a big number.

We average a little over 200 justifiable homicides annually, not always like those linked above regarding women and rapists, but legal lethal self defense nonetheless. 2300 in the last decade. Mass killings will never match the number of people who legally defend themselves under the reasonable belief their life was endangered.

Yeah, I think handguns should be legal pretty much for these exact circumstances, especially in the home.I'm actually even in favor of concealed carry permits for the most part, though I think they should be restricted to those who demonstrate extreme proficiency and good judgment under pressure and there should be extreme sentencing escalators for a concealed carry permit holder who breaks the law with the concealed gun in his/her possession at the time or a non-permit holder who has a concealed weapon.

I guess I'm coming off as anti-gun in this thread. Definitely not. I own a gun, have almost always owned guns, and have pretty often tossed around the idea of getting a permit. Just haven't committed myself to the work necessary to feel like I should do that.

 

[Ned]

I don't know why I keep poking in here, but wow. Pretty disappointed reading some of the comments. Guess I shouldn't be surprised given its the FFA, but I figured some would be above this crap.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I want to see a chart that tracks gun ownership measured against average penis size by region. I think it would be very telling.

Fixed, for accuracy. We know you only added gun ownership as cover for your real motive. nice try.

 

[Borat]

I want to see a chart that tracks gun ownership measured against average penis size by region. I think it would be very telling.

I'm as big as you want me to be, stud. Does that turn you on? What are you wearing? Age/location?

 

[RCon]

I want public schools to remain gun free zones. I don't want teachers or principals armed with guns. I don't care if they're trained with them or not, I don't want them having them. A security guard is a different story, though I'm not sure I want the security guard armed with a lethal weapon around children either.Whatever solution(s) there are to this problem, this particular one is unacceptable to me.

Why is it unacceptable?

 

[Otis]

I want public schools to remain gun free zones. I don't want teachers or principals armed with guns. I don't care if they're trained with them or not, I don't want them having them. A security guard is a different story, though I'm not sure I want the security guard armed with a lethal weapon around children either.Whatever solution(s) there are to this problem, this particular one is unacceptable to me.

Why is it unacceptable?

Do you have children?

 

[17seconds]

I think big trucks are more of a showoff (penis compensation) thing than guns. You don't usually know what guns someone has.

Guns satisfy a desire to feel dominant over other living things.

 

[Borat]

I want public schools to remain gun free zones. I don't want teachers or principals armed with guns. I don't care if they're trained with them or not, I don't want them having them. A security guard is a different story, though I'm not sure I want the security guard armed with a lethal weapon around children either.

Whatever solution(s) there are to this problem, this particular one is unacceptable to me.

Why is it unacceptable?

Do you have children?

Yeah.

 

[Borat]

I think big trucks are more of a showoff (penis compensation) thing than guns. You don't usually know what guns someone has.Guns satisfy a desire to feel dominant over other living things.

Well yeah, obviously. If you, personally, don't agree with someone else's tastes or opinions, it's fairly obvious that it all comes down to the other guy's penis size or need to feel dominant. It just stands to reason.

 

[RCon]

There are teachers out there that used to be in the military. There are teachers out there that used to be police officers.

What percentage of elementary school teachers do you think fall into these two categories? I don't think I've ever met one. I'd be surprised if there were a lot of these.

I imagine just about every male teacher in his 60s is former military, based on the fact that we had a draft at that time. The percentage probably drops heavily for younger teachers.

 

[Borat]

I just read this.http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20121220/stray.bullet.shooting/?cid=hero_media_SFOMade me want to ask the question, those of you who like walking around in public with guns with an intent to use them if needed as self defense, can you guarantee that you'd never miss your target, thus sending your bullet off to potentially hit someone else? Can you guarantee your bullet will not go through whatever it is you're shooting at and do the same thing?

No. Neither can the police. Should they give up their guns too?

 

[Sweet Feet]

I think big trucks are more of a showoff (penis compensation) thing than guns. You don't usually know what guns someone has.Guns satisfy a desire to feel dominant over other living things.

Well yeah, obviously. If you, personally, don't agree with someone else's tastes or opinions, it's fairly obvious that it all comes down to the other guy's penis size or need to feel dominant. It just stands to reason.

 

[Sweet Feet]

Police arrested Jock on charges of aggravated battery with a weapon and shooting within a building. He was released from jail on $20,000 bail.

Only a 20K bond for that?!?

 

[Borat]

Gun guys - you should just link to this

[/thread]