Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (12 Viewers)

[Paulymaggs]

Good riddance, all things Clinton.  Last time I post in here.

 

[jonessed]

Just saw some hand wringing on msnbc, kelly odonnell seriously wondering if, despite them knowing that its a good policy, middle america DOESN'T care about transgendered bathrooms in high school.  Completely unaware, unironic and oblivious. 

The Dems got so far out on platforms and fringes they might have collapsed under their own weight.  You drive through small towns now, every one I see, in just a month, has the blue line pained for police support.  Dems let the GOP make that THEIR issue and thats just the sort of thing that people in the areas that made a difference for Trump care about.  Some sense of normalcy and order. 

It's the economy stupid...

All the Democrats had to do was actually listen, but they couldn't do it.  Too much hubris.

I suspect they will continue to run around calling everybody racists though.  It's that kind of thinking that led to this.

 

[Jayrok]

The emails were the symptom. The actual problem was that people don't like Hillary Clinton, bottom line. Emails were just one of the ways to express that dislike. She acts like she's above people, and Americans ultimately rejected that attitude.

The silent majority has spoken.  They grew tired of her and her campaign's attitude that she was entitled, or next in line to the WH.  They grew tired of the media and pop culture icons in music and hollywood telling everyone how much of a devil Trump was and how anyone voting for him is the same.  This election was a big FU to all that, imo.  That majority showed up and voted.  

Even if Clinton had pulled out a victory late last night, that party would need to take a long look in the mirror to try and figure out why this wasn't a landslide in her favor.  She is genuinely disliked by a lot of people in this country.  IMO, the entitlement attitude and the impression that she gives that she is above the law.  And the controversy surrounding the Clinton Foundation.  People see her and Bill as corrupt politicians.  

 

[BeaverCleaver]

And now some of those on the left may understand why so many of us on the other side used  at many of your posts. 

 

[jon_mx]

I am still anxiously awaiting the beautiful display of fireworks Hillary promised over NYC.   

 

[Gustavo Fring]

At least Bill Clinton can take some of that unused campaign money and start himself a balloon business.  

 

[TobiasFunke]

Yes, I will agree to that. Absolutely happy to meet in the middle, yes. But I hope that is not the entirety of the post-mortum. 

There is plenty of finger-pointing and dissecting to go around. But at the same time, remember that a single paper cut of something like Comey could well have been enough. She's going to win the popular vote.  She is going to lose Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin COMBINED by less than a million votes, assuming she loses Michigan at all. 

Yes, she should have won by a lot more considering the opponent. And yes, she made other strategic mistakes that also could have avoided this result.  But while the post-mortem is going to show plenty of injuries and diseases and other health problems, fixing any one of them likely would have saved her, considering the final margins.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Yes, I will agree to that. Absolutely happy to meet in the middle, yes. But I hope that is not the entirety of the post-mortum. 

I knew you'd agree, just wanted it on the record.

 

[NCCommish]

There is plenty of finger-pointing and dissecting to go around. But at the same time, remember that a single paper cut of something like Comey could well have been enough. She's going to win the popular vote.  She is going to lose Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin COMBINED by less than a million votes, assuming she loses Michigan at all. 

Yes, she should have won by a lot more considering the opponent. And yes, she made other strategic mistakes that also could have avoided this result.  But while the post-mortem is going to show plenty of injuries and diseases and other health problems, fixing any one of them likely would have saved her, considering the final margins.

Only because her opponent was as deeply flawed as she is. I sense people learning the wrong lesson, again.

 

[Daywalker]

There is plenty of finger-pointing and dissecting to go around. But at the same time, remember that a single paper cut of something like Comey could well have been enough. She's going to win the popular vote.  She is going to lose Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin COMBINED by less than a million votes, assuming she loses Michigan at all. 

It's like 115k votes in those three states combined.  Out of 13.5mill votes.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I knew you'd agree, just wanted it on the record.

You bet, happy to.

 

[Chaos Commish]

There is plenty of finger-pointing and dissecting to go around. But at the same time, remember that a single paper cut of something like Comey could well have been enough. She's going to win the popular vote.  She is going to lose Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin COMBINED by less than a million votes, assuming she loses Michigan at all. 

Yes, she should have won by a lot more considering the opponent. And yes, she made other strategic mistakes that also could have avoided this result.  But while the post-mortem is going to show plenty of injuries and diseases and other health problems, fixing any one of them likely would have saved her, considering the final margins.

My morning reaction is that she didn't attack him enough or with enough focus. I wasn't in a battleground state, so I can't be sure of it, but the hot mic tape seemed to vanish in the ether weeks ago. Also I just seem his as such a big target that kicking him for a thousand faults just bruised him up some, where slitting he throat on a single issue may have resonated stronger.

 

[Chaos Commish]

My typing is hungover.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

The press hasn't been an independent arbiter of facts for, what, 30 or more years?  The minute they stepped in bed with the Democrats is the minute they lost any credibility.  It was painfully obvious this election that they were doing everything they could to get their gal elected, but that is how it pretty much is every election.  The Democrats will never know what it's like to have to battle the media day in and day out like the GOP has done for the last 30+ years.  Until that #### changes, they will never hold any credibility anymore.  They need to get back to reporting facts.

There is plenty of objective news out there, and there always has been. Pretty much every conservative media outlet refused to support Trump but because Republicans in general and Trump aggressively and specifically have targeted *all* media we're at a point where facts don't matter. Why should any candidate bother with facts or transparency now? The media will report it and 60 some odd million people won't believe or care. 

If you can't get rid of the press because of the bothersome First Ammendment, just delegitimize it. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[[icon]]

She was the most qualified candidate that the nation has ever seen but failed to get elected because most of the population was too stupid to realize it.

Wait... this is shtick, right? 

 

[Boston]

There is plenty of objective news out there, and there always has been. Pretty much every conservative media outlet refused to support Trump but because Republicans in general and Trump aggressively and specifically have targeted *all* media we're at a point where facts don't matter. Why should any candidate bother with facts or transparency now? The media will report it and 60 some odd million people won't believe or care. 

If you can't get rid of the press because of the bothersome First Ammendment, just delegitimize it. What could possibly go wrong?

Maybe if the members of the media didn't give debate questions to a candidate or didn't let them proofread their stories they would have more credibility...while WikiLeaks was devastating to Hillary it absolutely destroyed the myth that there is not a bias in the mainstream media...

 

[TheAristocrat]

It was never about Comey.  Those votes were set.

This was about nominating a horrible candidate who only desires money and power.  This was about the Clintons and only the Clintons.  And America rejected them.

 

[[icon]]

The FBI crashed the election after voting started.  No big deal.  Just a minor thing.

I'm whining.  Gotcha.

Maybe she shouldn't have committed the act that invited the inquiry. 

Lack of accountability is comical. It's shocking that some of you are able to get by in civilized society. 
 

 

[Adam West]

@timschochet

Nice work boner

Classy. Thanks. 

 

[pantherclub]

It was never about Comey.  Those votes were set.

This was about nominating a horrible candidate who only desires money and power.  This was about the Clintons and only the Clintons.  And America rejected them.

Pretty much this.  People really hate the system but they despise Hillary Clinton.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Classy. Thanks. 

 

[Widbil83]

The beginning of the end for Hillary was her basket of deplorables comment.  I mean Tim even saw how damaging that was at the moment if you go back and read this thread.  Who would have thought insulting millions of potential voters was a bad idea!

 

[Boston]

The beginning of the end for Hillary was her basket of deplorables comment.  I mean Tim even saw how damaging that was at the moment if you go back and read this thread.  Who would have thought insulting millions of potential voters was a bad idea!

Her 47% moment...

 

[Chaos Commish]

It was never about Comey.  Those votes were set.

This was about nominating a horrible candidate who only desires money and power.  This was about the Clintons and only the Clintons.  And America rejected them.

Sorry but there was a massive momentum change following Comey's letter. It happened. Was it happening anyway? No way to be sure. I know it's not quite that simple, but not acknowledging what we all witnessed seems a little revisionist. She lost by a very narrow margin in places that apparently needed just a little push when the FBI pushed.

 

[cobalt_27]

There is plenty of finger-pointing and dissecting to go around. But at the same time, remember that a single paper cut of something like Comey could well have been enough. She's going to win the popular vote.  She is going to lose Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin COMBINED by less than a million votes, assuming she loses Michigan at all. 

Yes, she should have won by a lot more considering the opponent. And yes, she made other strategic mistakes that also could have avoided this result.  But while the post-mortem is going to show plenty of injuries and diseases and other health problems, fixing any one of them likely would have saved her, considering the final margins.

This is all true.  But, you say this with the lesson that Comey is to blame.  If we are to learn anything from this, it is that Hillary was so deeply flawed to begin with that a paper cut was all that was needed for her to lose.  There was a complete and total lack of awareness--and avoidance--to appreciate the foundational baggage Hillary brought with her.  Comey's letter may or may not have had the impact you described, but at what point are you going to acknowledge that that was Hillary's problem to begin with?

 

[Adam West]

You mean the email issue that you spent thousands of posts saying wasn't a real issue?

Mea culpa. 

As it turns out the emails didn't turn out to be anything criminal; I was right about that part. But they confirmed for much of the public the long held feeling that the Clintons were corrupt and untrustworthy. I miscalculated that effect and underrated their importance. 

Again, if I had to do it over, I would have joined those calling on Hillary to withdraw after the email story came up. And when she still ran, I would have supported Bernie Sanders, not because I preferred him, but in the hopes that he might beat Trump. Too late now though. If you want to blame me and people like me have at it. We screwed up. 

 

[Jayrok]

People are pointing to Comey's letter coming out days before the election, and while that may have had some influence for many voters, I think the wikileaks that came out every single day for weeks had more effect on things than people think.  Those were constant jabs at HRC's campaign, showing improprieties (if not corruption) and her people constantly wrote them off and deflected them as "non stories", but it made a lasting impact, imo.  More of one that they want to admit to.  

People read that the Clinton's may have used Foundation/charity money to pay for their daughter's wedding, for instance... true or not, there was evidence that Podesta and others at least talked about it.  Stuff like that sticks in people's crawl.  Anyway, I think those had more of an impact than the FBI director opening and re-closing her investigation.  

 

[Slapdash]

Classy. Thanks. 

You've earned it

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Mea culpa. 

As it turns out the emails didn't turn out to be anything criminal; I was right about that part. But they confirmed for much of the public the long held feeling that the Clintons were corrupt and untrustworthy. I miscalculated that effect and underrated their importance. 

Again, if I had to do it over, I would have joined those calling on Hillary to withdraw after the email story came up. And when she still ran, I would have supported Bernie Sanders, not because I preferred him, but in the hopes that he might beat Trump. Too late now though. If you want to blame me and people like me have at it. We screwed up. 

Will this finally deflate your massive ego?

 

[Parrothead]

Trump's wife looked terrified..  she has to downsize from a swanky 5th Ave Penthouse to the White House.. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Only because her opponent was as deeply flawed as she is. I sense people learning the wrong lesson, again.

Look man, I'm trying to listen to any any all voices in the FFA today. I've posted conciliatory and/or congratulatory messages in every relevant thread, from the Sanders one to the Clinton one to the Trump one to the election one. I've tried to respond to every post responding to one of mine or calling me out by by alias, whether from five minutes ago or six months ago. All this while bummed out and still half-asleep from the fistful of xanax I took to get to sleep last night. If you want to start a brand new slapfight about how I'm "learning the wrong lesson, again" you're gonna have to find another foe.  Or at least give me a week.

 

[jon_mx]

So wikileaks is the new swiftboat?

 

[Boston]

I think the election changed when the Podesta email saying she smelled like cabbage, urine and farts came out...that should sink any candidate...if you can't shower you can't run the country...political science 101...

 

[Slapdash]

Mea culpa. 

As it turns out the emails didn't turn out to be anything criminal; I was right about that part. But they confirmed for much of the public the long held feeling that the Clintons were corrupt and untrustworthy. I miscalculated that effect and underrated their importance. 

Again, if I had to do it over, I would have joined those calling on Hillary to withdraw after the email story came up. And when she still ran, I would have supported Bernie Sanders, not because I preferred him, but in the hopes that he might beat Trump. Too late now though. If you want to blame me and people like me have at it. We screwed up. 

Not really.  Just because she wasn't charged doesn't mean that any other government employee wouldn't be.  Consequences are different for those with power though.

 

[Adam West]

Will this finally deflate your massive ego?

Right about now massive egos seem to be popular. 

 

[MaxThreshold]

Sorry but there was a massive momentum change following Comey's letter. It happened. Was it happening anyway? No way to be sure. I know it's not quite that simple, but not acknowledging what we all witnessed seems a little revisionist. She lost by a very narrow margin in places that apparently needed just a little push when the FBI pushed.

Again, this is a cop-out.  You're not learning anything from this loss except to find more unreasonable excuses.

 

[NCCommish]

Look man, I'm trying to listen to any any all voices in the FFA today. I've posted conciliatory and/or congratulatory messages in every relevant thread, from the Sanders one to the Clinton one to the Trump one to the election one. I've tried to respond to every post responding to one of mine or calling me out by by alias, whether from five minutes ago or six months ago. All this while bummed out and still half-asleep from the fistful of xanax I took to get to sleep last night. If you want to start a brand new slapfight about how I'm "learning the wrong lesson, again" you're gonna have to find another foe.  Or at least give me a week.

Everything isn't about you. I was making a general observation based on what I am reading everywhere. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

This is all true.  But, you say this with the lesson that Comey is to blame.  If we are to learn anything from this, it is that Hillary was so deeply flawed to begin with that a paper cut was all that was needed for her to lose.  There was a complete and total lack of awareness--and avoidance--to appreciate the foundational baggage Hillary brought with her.  Comey's letter may or may not have had the impact you described, but at what point are you going to acknowledge that that was Hillary's problem to begin with?

I may have been literally the very first person in this forum to recognize that the email issue was a problem. I said it within minutes after the story broke. You can ask other people who were in the thread from the start if you don't believe me; I think @SaintsInDome2006 was there. Is that early enough for you? 

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Right about now massive egos seem to be popular. 

Not yours

 

[TobiasFunke]

Everything isn't about you. I was making a general observation based on what I am reading everywhere. 

Gotcha, cool.  When posts are replies to my posts, I assume they're directed at me. 

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Maybe if the members of the media didn't give debate questions to a candidate or didn't let them proofread their stories they would have more credibility...while WikiLeaks was devastating to Hillary it absolutely destroyed the myth that there is not a bias in the mainstream media...

So go get your news from Fox or Breitbart. No bias there. Or maybe Trump's new "official" news channel if we get that now. 

I do think there is a reasonable critique about the seamless blending of news and opinion on Cable news in particular. It gets us back to the central problem though, if we're going to have a free, independent, and for profit press, there is always going to be one side or the other (or both) claiming bias. It's when we --or enough of us-- lose faith in the institution as a whole that we give up one of the primary and necessary checks in defense of liberty. 

 

[cobalt_27]

People are pointing to Comey's letter coming out days before the election, and while that may have had some influence for many voters, I think the wikileaks that came out every single day for weeks had more effect on things than people think.  Those were constant jabs at HRC's campaign, showing improprieties (if not corruption) and her people constantly wrote them off and deflected them as "non stories", but it made a lasting impact, imo.  More of one that they want to admit to.  

People read that the Clinton's may have used Foundation/charity money to pay for their daughter's wedding, for instance... true or not, there was evidence that Podesta and others at least talked about it.  Stuff like that sticks in people's crawl.  Anyway, I think those had more of an impact than the FBI director opening and re-closing her investigation.  

I think the Doug Band memo solidified what people long suspected about the Clintons.  I mean, he provided the exact path and connected all the dots to how they used their political position to profit and then turn back and influence policy again in a very tight, orderly ecosystem.  Right down to the dollar amounts.

 

[Jayrok]

You can say that again.  

 

[Adam West]

Not really.  Just because she wasn't charged doesn't mean that any other government employee wouldn't be.  Consequences are different for those with power though.

Whatever. If there is any positive to last night's outcome, it's that we won't have to discuss the Various Hillary scandals anymore. (Unless, that is, Trump carries out his promise to appoint a special prosecutor.) I don't ever want to discuss them again. Right now I don't ever want to see her face again. 

You win, alright? I concede. 

 

[Phil Elliott]

It's the economy stupid...

All the Democrats had to do was actually listen, but they couldn't do it.  Too much hubris.

I suspect they will continue to run around calling everybody racists though.  It's that kind of thinking that led to this.

Yes, Jobs/economy was the biggest issue. This country has been losing jobs for 20 years. Trump "offered" to stop the migration of jobs outside the US and lower the corporate tax rate (regardless of race/sex/LGBT) and bring jobs back to the US. The pollsters didn't account very well for the silent Trump voters that the media and the liberals were bashing.  Hillary didn't run into any glass ceiling that the mainstream media is projecting this am. She had the whole world/the media/Silicon Valley/establishment (even on the GOP)/White House, DOJ, billions of $ on her side. It was an awful choice of candidates but she has no one else to blame besides herself. The media tried to slow the Trump turnout with the inaccurate "exit polls" in the big swing states, especially Florida and the huge hispanic vote.  

 

[Parrothead]

is she not giving her speech?  I see an empty podium on the live feed-  30 minutes late?  did she just say f it and leave town??

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I may have been literally the very first person in this forum to recognize that the email issue was a problem. I said it within minutes after the story broke. You can ask other people who were in the thread from the start if you don't believe me; I think @SaintsInDome2006 was there. Is that early enough for you? 

True. I remember the discussion, Tobias was critical of Hillary as well. 

 

[Adam West]

Not yours

Good because I don't have one. 

 

[Chaos Commish]

Again, this is a cop-out.  You're not learning anything from this loss except to find more unreasonable excuses.

No it isn't and no I'm not. It happened. I'd never called it the sole reason, let alone a main reason, but it was a breathtaking moment and the shift in energy was palpable. A cop-out would be not acknowledging that. Btw, I am quite happy today. Giddy and giggling. It's freakin' crazy. Trump ran on some unconscionably bad ideas, but I am and always have been anti-current-establishment.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

So wikileaks is the new swiftboat?

No, I think Comey's "we're reopening the investigation, oops, I guess it's nothing" is the new Swiftboat. Russian hacking and influencing the outcome of our election is a whole new deal.