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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (13 Viewers)

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Arsenal of Doom said:
So go get your news from Fox or Breitbart. No bias there. Or maybe Trump's new "official" news channel if we get that now. 

I do think there is a reasonable critique about the seamless blending of news and opinion on Cable news in particular. It gets us back to the central problem though, if we're going to have a free, independent, and for profit press, there is always going to be one side or the other (or both) claiming bias. It's when we --or enough of us-- lose faith in the institution as a whole that we give up one of the primary and necessary checks in defense of liberty. 
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I think you (and many on the left) miss the point about media bias...the Breitbarts, Huffpos, Rush and Maddows are not part of the bias...they are totally upfront with who they are...you know what you are getting with them...if you don't agree with them then turn the channel or don't read it...it is the entities that pretend to be unbiased that aren't...that is where the bias is and it is unacceptable...and it is now very obvious as to who they are...

 
By the way I don't need apologies. I don't need anyone admitting they were wrong. I need fighters. I need people that are going to pick.themselves up, dust themselves off and say " I can do this all day". Yeah you got it wrong. We can ruminate on that for few and get whatever limited solace it brings but we have to get up off the mat. No ten count. Get up.

We have to realize we have to take another approach. We have to worry less about soccer moms and more about parents who can't afford soccer for their kids. Less about rich intellectuals and more about the town's that are dying.

If you are that guy or gal let's get it on. If you aren't sit down and shut up. The rest of us have work to do. So lead or follow but get the hell out of the way.

 
Widbil83 said:
The beginning of the end for Hillary was her basket of deplorables comment.  I mean Tim even saw how damaging that was at the moment if you go back and read this thread.  Who would have thought insulting millions of potential voters was a bad idea!
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Trump had it right.  Insult individuals until the cows come home, but every time you're talking about a large faceless group of people do nothing but praise them.  Every single speech he gave several times repeated "_________ are great.  __________ love me".

It was like he was courting a high school girl.  Treat them like #### with your actual actions but talk about them positively in big generalizations.

 
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Don't know the real reason for Hillary cancelling the fireworks several days prior, but their internals probably knew it wasn't looking good. Right around Florida polls closing, NYT raising Trump's chances of winning to 58% and LAPD indicating "if Trump wins, they are going into riot mode", was when everyone started to realize what was happening. 

 
Boston said:
I think you (and many on the left) miss the point about media bias...the Breitbarts, Huffpos, Rush and Maddows are not part of the bias...they are totally upfront with who they are...you know what you are getting with them...if you don't agree with them then turn the channel or don't read it...it is the entities that pretend to be unbiased that aren't...that is where the bias is and it is unacceptable...and it is now very obvious as to who they are...
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So who gets to decide what press is biased and what isn't? You see the problem? You've had mainly, but not exclusively, the right screaming for years about the bias in media. How do you propose to eliminate or reduce media bias without restricting free speech? 

 
NCCommish said:
By the way I don't need apologies. I don't need anyone admitting they were wrong. I need fighters. I need people that are going to pick.themselves up, dust themselves off and say " I can do this all day". Yeah you got it wrong. We can ruminate on that for few and get whatever limited solace it brings but we have to get up off the mat. No ten count. Get up.

We have to realize we have to take another approach. We have to worry less about soccer moms and more about parents who can't afford soccer for their kids. Less about rich intellectuals and more about the town's that are dying.

If you are that guy or gal let's get it on. If you aren't sit down and shut up. The rest of us have work to do. So lead or follow but get the hell out of the way.
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If you're talking about unified opposition to Trump (assuming he is the President we fear him to be) I'm on board. 

But I can't get behind populism, even to fight populism. As far as I'm concerned it's poison. 

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
So who gets to decide what press is biased and what isn't? You see the problem? You've had mainly, but not exclusively, the right screaming for years about the bias in media. How do you propose to eliminate or reduce media bias without restricting free speech? 
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The media will decide if they want to be perceived as reporting the news or trying to create the news. 

 
NCCommish said:
By the way I don't need apologies. I don't need anyone admitting they were wrong. I need fighters. I need people that are going to pick.themselves up, dust themselves off and say " I can do this all day". Yeah you got it wrong. We can ruminate on that for few and get whatever limited solace it brings but we have to get up off the mat. No ten count. Get up.

We have to realize we have to take another approach. We have to worry less about soccer moms and more about parents who can't afford soccer for their kids. Less about rich intellectuals and more about the town's that are dying.

If you are that guy or gal let's get it on. If you aren't sit down and shut up. The rest of us have work to do. So lead or follow but get the hell out of the way.
Click to expand...
I have my doubts that the Democrats will be able to change their focus from BLM, transgender bathrooms, and climate change to jobs and drug addiction.  I suspect they will try to jam it all together again and completely miss the point.

 
Phil Elliott said:
Don't know the real reason for Hillary cancelling the fireworks several days prior, but their internals probably knew it wasn't looking good. Right around Florida polls closing, NYT raising Trump's chances of winning to 58% and LAPD indicating "if Trump wins, they are going into riot mode", was when everyone started to realize what was happening. 
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The hell was that about? Was that true? 

 
Adam West said:
Whatever. If there is any positive to last night's outcome, it's that we won't have to discuss the Various Hillary scandals anymore. (Unless, that is, Trump carries out his promise to appoint a special prosecutor.) I don't ever want to discuss them again. Right now I don't ever want to see her face again. 

You win, alright? I concede. 
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Certainly doesn't feel like winning today, but I don't think winning was really on the table with either choice.  HRC would have kept the status quo going, but that isn't good enough at this juncture. 

 
jonessed said:
I have my doubts that the Democrats will be able to change their focus from BLM, transgender bathrooms, and climate change to jobs and drug addiction.  I suspect they will try to jam it all together again and completely miss the point.
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I think some incorrect assumptions were made about demographics and what 2008 meant.

 
jonessed said:
I have my doubts that the Democrats will be able to change their focus from BLM, transgender bathrooms, and climate change to jobs and drug addiction.  I suspect they will try to jam it all together again and completely miss the point.
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Then they will cease to exist as a national.party. Can't take working class whites for granted anymore..

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
So who gets to decide what press is biased and what isn't? You see the problem? You've had mainly, but not exclusively, the right screaming for years about the bias in media. How do you propose to eliminate or reduce media bias without restricting free speech? 
Click to expand...
Not sure where you are going with this...no one is saying to shut-down the media or restricting free speech...all some are saying is when they hear something from a particular source they may not believe it anymore...it is a credibility issue...simple as that...

 
NCCommish said:
By the way I don't need apologies. I don't need anyone admitting they were wrong. I need fighters. I need people that are going to pick.themselves up, dust themselves off and say " I can do this all day". Yeah you got it wrong. We can ruminate on that for few and get whatever limited solace it brings but we have to get up off the mat. No ten count. Get up.

We have to realize we have to take another approach. We have to worry less about soccer moms and more about parents who can't afford soccer for their kids. Less about rich intellectuals and more about the town's that are dying.

If you are that guy or gal let's get it on. If you aren't sit down and shut up. The rest of us have work to do. So lead or follow but get the hell out of the way.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of this comes down to the economy.  On paper Obama delivered on unemployment and turning the economy around but what we got was the upper 1% doing extremely well and a bunch of jobs that people can't live on.  Not all jobs are created equal and a lot of those people voted Trump because at least he was addressing speaking about the issue.

 
Daywalker said:
Or look at the evidence first.  They were able to by this past Sunday.  They could have looked at the evidence.  If they find something make it known to congress.  If they don't find anything?   Keep your ####### mouth shut.  This is not difficult.

:wall:
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Like I said, if I understand it correctly, not reporting that new evidence had come to light could've meant jail time for Comey.

It's a combination of the Hatch Act and his previous report to Congress.

 
NCCommish said:
By the way I don't need apologies. I don't need anyone admitting they were wrong. I need fighters. I need people that are going to pick.themselves up, dust themselves off and say " I can do this all day". Yeah you got it wrong. We can ruminate on that for few and get whatever limited solace it brings but we have to get up off the mat. No ten count. Get up.

We have to realize we have to take another approach. We have to worry less about soccer moms and more about parents who can't afford soccer for their kids. Less about rich intellectuals and more about the town's that are dying.

If you are that guy or gal let's get it on. If you aren't sit down and shut up. The rest of us have work to do. So lead or follow but get the hell out of the way.
Click to expand...
I'm all ears. Now, if you don't mind I'm going to prioritize charities that focus on helping refugees first, because I consider that the most pressing need in the wake of a Trump win (and if you think differently I'll listen to your argument on that too).  But I'm open-minded and ready to help.

 
Phil Elliott said:
Don't know the real reason for Hillary cancelling the fireworks several days prior, but their internals probably knew it wasn't looking good. Right around Florida polls closing, NYT raising Trump's chances of winning to 58% and LAPD indicating "if Trump wins, they are going into riot mode", was when everyone started to realize what was happening. 
Click to expand...
I seriously doubt that.  Most of the polls had this race wrong, and there's little reason to think Hillary's internal polling was any better.  My guess is that she thought she had this in the bag, like everybody else did, and that her team was completely stunned at how it turned out.  We'll find out in the coming days when the recriminations get more public.  

 
NCCommish said:
Then they will cease to exist as a national.party. Can't take working class whites for granted anymore..
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24 hours ago, I was thinking the same thing.  Except "they" were Republicans.  

This is really an amazing reversal of political fortune, as horrible as the outcome is.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I seriously doubt that.  Most of the polls had this race wrong, and there's little reason to think Hillary's internal polling was any better.  My guess is that she thought she had this in the bag, like everybody else did, and that her team was completely stunned at how it turned out.  We'll find out in the coming days when the recriminations get more public.  
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I agree.  I think she got steamrolled.  If she had any inkling of this yesterday I dont think Podesta would have been rushed out like that.

 
BassNBrew said:
I think a lot of this comes down to the economy.  On paper Obama delivered on unemployment and turning the economy around but what we got was the upper 1% doing extremely well and a bunch of jobs that people can't live on.  Not all jobs are created equal and a lot of those people voted Trump because at least he was addressing speaking about the issue.
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Right, but the unemployment rate was always a misleading picture of the recovery

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I think some incorrect assumptions were made about demographics and what 2008 meant.
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I think, long term, they were correct assumptions. 

Here is a theory I have had for years: populism trumps all rules in politics. Populist surges on a national basis are pretty rare in this country (Andrew Jackson and Donald Trump and that might be it) but when they happen they are overwhelming. But they don't last. Many of the people who voted for Trump will return to indifference after this election cycle. 

But the Obama coalition will essentially remain. 65% of Latinos voted for Hillary. That's a lower figure than I would have estimated but in a normal election it still represents an untenable result for Republicans. I compared this election earlier to Pete Wilson and Prop 187 and how that changed California. 187 passed and Wilson won re-election. That was a short term victory for Republicans but the negative consequences were long term and right around the corner. I expect the same result here, once the populism wave has passed. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I'm all ears. Now, if you don't mind I'm going to prioritize charities that focus on helping refugees first, because I consider that the most pressing need in the wake of a Trump win (and if you think differently I'll listen to your argument on that too).  But I'm open-minded and ready to help.
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That seems like a good thing to me. But lots of folks are going to need us so be ready.

 
Boston said:
Not sure where you are going with this...no one is saying to shut-down the media or restricting free speech...all some are saying is when they hear something from a particular source they may not believe it anymore...it is a credibility issue...simple as that...
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Right. Trump has essentially set it up that any media that says something bad about him isn't credible, following the long standing Republican lead.

I don't think it's going to get any friendlier between the press and Trump, so I guess we'll see how it goes once he needs to start delivering on all the promises he's made. 

 
NCCommish said:
Then they will cease to exist as a national.party. Can't take working class whites for granted anymore..
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Not sure who all is included in working class whites, but to be fair, it looks like he won every classification of whites.  Men, women, college, or not.

Trump did better with Latino men (33%) and "others" (32%) than Clinton did with white men (31%).

 
Adam West said:
I think, long term, they were correct assumptions. 

Here is a theory I have had for years: populism trumps all rules in politics. Populist surges on a national basis are pretty rare in this country (Andrew Jackson and Donald Trump and that might be it) but when they happen they are overwhelming. But they don't last. Many of the people who voted for Trump will return to indifference after this election cycle. 

But the Obama coalition will essentially remain. 65% of Latinos voted for Hillary. That's a lower figure than I would have estimated but in a normal election it still represents an untenable result for Republicans. I compared this election earlier to Pete Wilson and Prop 187 and how that changed California. 187 passed and Wilson won re-election. That was a short term victory for Republicans but the negative consequences were long term and right around the corner. I expect the same result here, once the populism wave has passed. 
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I think further up I pointed out that apparently the GOP still (still) has a natural foothold in the Hispanic community. They need to take a page from Jack Kemp and Marco Rubio and build on that. Point just being that the Hispanic vote turning hard just did not happen and it doesn't have to.  This 'thing' with the racial divide in the parties is unhealthy anyway.

 
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Adam West said:
I think, long term, they were correct assumptions. 

Here is a theory I have had for years: populism trumps all rules in politics. Populist surges on a national basis are pretty rare in this country (Andrew Jackson and Donald Trump and that might be it) but when they happen they are overwhelming. But they don't last. Many of the people who voted for Trump will return to indifference after this election cycle. 

But the Obama coalition will essentially remain. 65% of Latinos voted for Hillary. That's a lower figure than I would have estimated but in a normal election it still represents an untenable result for Republicans. I compared this election earlier to Pete Wilson and Prop 187 and how that changed California. 187 passed and Wilson won re-election. That was a short term victory for Republicans but the negative consequences were long term and right around the corner. I expect the same result here, once the populism wave has passed. 
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:lol:

 
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