timschochet
Footballguy
I'm good, thanks. Obviously the outcome depresses me, and I am terrified of a Trump presidency. But I hope for the best; what else can I do?
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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
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timschochet
Footballguy
I don't. I hope it is though.It is cute how you still think this will be business as usual under Trump
Zegras11
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
It does not serve our nation well for Congress to further investigate Hillary Clinton. It does not serve our nation well for Obama to give her clemency or a pardon either. Why can't they just leave the damn thing alone? She lost; she's never going to run for anything again. Her career is over.
timschochet
Footballguy
Meaningless but interesting factoid: Hillary won my home of Orange County, California.
Significant because she is the first Democrat to do so in nearly 100 years. Orange County doesn't vote Democrat, ever. It's a red conclave in a larger sea of blue.
Significant because she is the first Democrat to do so in nearly 100 years. Orange County doesn't vote Democrat, ever. It's a red conclave in a larger sea of blue.
Hillary is going to get pardoned, so it is pointless. However,, what Congress should do is reform the campaign and election laws.
I think they should clearly prohibit many of the shenanigans the Clintons pulled over the years. You should not be able to rent out/sell government property (Lincoln Bedroom/Pardons for instance) for political contributions.
The way the foundation operated should also be prohibited. Anybody involved in any organization should not be able to personally recieve money in what even has the potential to be a pay for play scheme. They need to be barred from public service for several years at least.
We also need to lower the bar for criminal prosecution in quid pro quo cases. Hell, I would prohibit things which even have the appearance of being such. It is almost impossible to prosecute under the current law.
The way the Clintons operated and personally gaining fortunes essentially selling political influence was clearly unethical and needs to be clearly prohibited.
I think they should clearly prohibit many of the shenanigans the Clintons pulled over the years. You should not be able to rent out/sell government property (Lincoln Bedroom/Pardons for instance) for political contributions.
The way the foundation operated should also be prohibited. Anybody involved in any organization should not be able to personally recieve money in what even has the potential to be a pay for play scheme. They need to be barred from public service for several years at least.
We also need to lower the bar for criminal prosecution in quid pro quo cases. Hell, I would prohibit things which even have the appearance of being such. It is almost impossible to prosecute under the current law.
The way the Clintons operated and personally gaining fortunes essentially selling political influence was clearly unethical and needs to be clearly prohibited.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
The ruling just applies to the current law and the jury instruction on what constitutes an official act. It does not restrict the ability to expand the law or better define things. Of course I am not a lawyer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
pantherclub
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Exactly. Not getting a job you wanted doesn't mean you are off the hook for any crimes you might have committed.
I am sure she will still skate out of this, like she always does, but she lost the election and she won't be the president; that's good enough for me.
G
Guest
Guest
And is your point that depending on who Tweets an inane few characters on a subject, it inherently negates the truth of the message? Because way I saw it, those leaks proved a incestuous relationship between media and the Clinton campaign and Wikileaks, and largely not our media, played a critical role in exposing truth.
G
Guest
Guest
This! My Facebook feed was 80% a bombardment of memes and shaming from the Left. As I posted there, a future historian may conclude that the real "sides" in 2016 were not R and D, but one group who maintained, "This is who must lead us," even before the primaries, and the other saying, "We want a fair democratic process.""It's almost as if you endlessly call people bigots and racists they'll eventually get fed up and turn on you."
Awesomely, this is the lesson they'll never learn.
Any reaction to the latter or the former's credentials was a game of Whack-a-Mole by the Left and the Right got tired of seeing stars so hung low.
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G
Guest
Guest
A lot of people applaud the symbolism of Hillary's purple. I see it as exactly what's wrong with her. She's what she thinks she needs to be to come off as righteous and sanctimonious. I wish her well and hope she retires and we see her infrequently.
Righetti
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
It is interesting and says as much about Trump as it does Hillary.
I also thought this interesting and it fits what happened in the rest of the country:
2012:
- Romney 541K
- Obama 457K
2016:
- Trump 357K
- Hillary 396K
- That's a pretty significant decrease in turnout for both parties.
Righetti
Footballguy
They knew the true polling was not in their favor which is why they sent Obama to campaign in Michigan last week. The cracks were there, they just hoped to keep it contained when they should have been imploring every democrat and woman in the state to come out to vote
so much for her vaunted ground game
Righetti
Footballguy
derek245583
Footballguy
I heard this morning that roughly 51% of eligible voters voted.
And the popular vote was essentially right down the middle. So 1/4 of the eligible country elected Donald Trump. Seems embarrassingly low to me.
And the popular vote was essentially right down the middle. So 1/4 of the eligible country elected Donald Trump. Seems embarrassingly low to me.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
It seems straightforward to me, the governor received $175,000 in gifts from the owner of a company with business before the state and state facilities were used and access granted. Even though the governor himself did not personally sign some sort of law granting this company benefits from it is pretty clear that the state's top official was for hire and if the people of VA wanted to get this sort of thing out of their official activity I do not see why they should not be able to. I'm for probably ~90% of the limitations and transparency rules in CU, but it seems to me this sort of thing would be more helpful in stemming corruption because all of this is off the books. As I've said before yes campaign contributions are a big deal but when people with influence really want to own a politician they do it off the books with stuff like this (and much bigger). IMO the USSC completely wrested control of what would be considered as 'corruption' from the people and I think it probably shows how they are part of and came out of the same system that is being described here. The people's efforts to control the behavior and standards of their own government was totally stiffarmed.
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MattFancy
Footballguy
Saw the same stats. Out of 231M+ voters: 25.6 voted Hillary, 25.5 voted Trump, and 46.9 did not vote at all. When you look at it like that, it really shows how little support either candidate had from the majority of the country.
Boston
Footballguy
Could not agree with this more...in the big picture I think this election was a big FU to political correctness and the forces of ideological bigotry...many on the left go from 0 to 100mph in two seconds with the name-calling the second you disagree with them...example (and this is one a buddy of mine who ran for State Rep heard a lot of while campaigning)...you are pretty open-minded, could care less whether someone is gay, straight or whatever they choose to do with themselves...yet, you are against 35 year dudes going to the bathroom with your 11 year old daughter at the mall and now suddenly you are a mean-spirited bigot...to many people this type of BS is over-the-line...there needs to be a middle-ground on many issues in this country...and that includes social issues as well...not everyone who disagrees with the left is a far right religious nutjob and having legitimate concerns about issues should not be met with close-minded hatred..."It's almost as if you endlessly call people bigots and racists they'll eventually get fed up and turn on you."
Awesomely, this is the lesson they'll never learn.
The Commish
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't have any real problems with what jon mx is proposing (at least, at first glance) but I'd be extremely surprised if Congress takes up any of it.
Skoo
Footballguy
59.8M for Hillary and 59.6M for Trump.
But yeah, pretty embarrassing considering other 1st world countries routinely get over 90% voter turnout.
Of course they also do simple things like make election day a national holiday, which they should do here IMO. It only happens once every 4 years, we should be doing what we can to let everyone who wants to vote do so.
timschochet
Footballguy
I truly believe that the less people that vote the better as a general rule. That's a tough argument for me to make this morning because the outcome this time around was one that I REALLY did not want. But nonetheless I still think it's better if disinterested people stay away from the voting booth.
Skoo
Footballguy
I guess what I'm really saying is that more people should be interested. And those that are interested shouldn't have to take off of work or stand in line for 3 hours.
I've never waited more than 3 minutes to vote, and this is my 5th Presidential election. Meanwhile others wait for hours every time.
That's not right.
identikit
Footballguy
This is telling.The statistic I nickname 'the dagger':
Of voters who said 'Donald Trump is not qualified to be president', Trump got 19% of the vote.
One in five people who felt he was not capable of doing the job still preferred him to Hillary.
timschochet
Footballguy
I agree. And if that long wait is because white conservative politicians deliberately reduce staffing in minority areas, it's racist as well.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I agree that Election Day should be a National Holiday. No reason not to let people have every chance they can to go out and vote. Now granted, I guess those people could have don absentee ballots if they didn't feel like actually voting. But either way, we should have more than just over 50% of the voting population voting in a major election.
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Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Recently you were supporting hillary's comments in an email that basically said do anything to win.
Truly believe whatever you want, but you are very wrong. Thanks for enabling Trump!
In hindsight, appointing Hillary as SOS is the decision that Obama will regret the most. Allowing the Clintons to remain in power has caused his legacy to be dismantled.
Statorama
Footballguy
Good post. I think a National Holiday would inspire greater turnout than early voting has.
timschochet
Footballguy
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
They already have returned to form! The Crats after a day of crying have returned to their mission statement and are burning their opponents in effigy.
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
Quez
Footballguy
Imo, Trump is going to be stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If he pardonsher, or doesn't go after her, then he risk fractioning his base. True, it's probably better for our country to just let her disappear, bit he ran his campaign on "lock her up". If he doesn't follow through his slim chances of re-election will become even slimmer.
G
Guest
Guest
An apology I wrote on messenger to two of my good friends on FB who happen to be Lesbians and were deeply upset by the election and my posts against Clinton.
Look at This Election Map
I'll own my ranting on more or less a single, issue -- though I went back last night and pruned my political posts back to the first: July 26, 2015, in which I posted that I'd done some digging and if it turned out as it appeared that the email server was to avoid transparency, that plus lack of competition in the primary was going to anger a lot of people. It was prescient 16 months ago, when I maintain the Party shouldn't have become more protective and insular, but asked her to kindly step aside. I know it wasn't going to happen, but I beat this drum consistently and posted more as the mistake became more evident and vexing.
All that said, I also posted advice back in early August to the Left not to poke the bear with Trump supporters with sanctimony. That it was best to mock Trump and not shame all who didn't fall in line with certain ways of thinking.
As the Democrats realign, look at this election map. It's stunning. Whereas population is consolidated largely in the blue, a starting premise for success cannot be trying to convince all that is red that they have it wrong and to kindly stop mouth breathing. You can see how that technique may have backfired.
Lots of lessons to learn. Still, 51% of eligible voters showed to vote and fewer than 50% voted for him. So less than 25% of the electorate did this, and I'd maintain less than half them voted for Trump with conviction.
So it isn't as bad as you think. The answer is to represent and inspire people who weren't.
I've heard this from others elsewhere, but in 2008, Austin was peppered with signs. Skewed Obama, but close. Everywhere you drive, signs everywhere. Fewer in 2012, but still many.
This year, it was all Hillary/Kaine but maybe a half percent of yards and not the 33% or so from 2008.
Please know this was a slow motion train wreck for me for a long time. I saw if coming, I felt it coming, I was upset by the risk and what I believed the strategic and cultural blunders that were tailwinds.
My apologies to both of you personally, whom I adore and respect to no end. I want mainly the same basic things you do, just through a different road. I think that road can be built. I think it will.
Look at This Election Map
I'll own my ranting on more or less a single, issue -- though I went back last night and pruned my political posts back to the first: July 26, 2015, in which I posted that I'd done some digging and if it turned out as it appeared that the email server was to avoid transparency, that plus lack of competition in the primary was going to anger a lot of people. It was prescient 16 months ago, when I maintain the Party shouldn't have become more protective and insular, but asked her to kindly step aside. I know it wasn't going to happen, but I beat this drum consistently and posted more as the mistake became more evident and vexing.
All that said, I also posted advice back in early August to the Left not to poke the bear with Trump supporters with sanctimony. That it was best to mock Trump and not shame all who didn't fall in line with certain ways of thinking.
As the Democrats realign, look at this election map. It's stunning. Whereas population is consolidated largely in the blue, a starting premise for success cannot be trying to convince all that is red that they have it wrong and to kindly stop mouth breathing. You can see how that technique may have backfired.
Lots of lessons to learn. Still, 51% of eligible voters showed to vote and fewer than 50% voted for him. So less than 25% of the electorate did this, and I'd maintain less than half them voted for Trump with conviction.
So it isn't as bad as you think. The answer is to represent and inspire people who weren't.
I've heard this from others elsewhere, but in 2008, Austin was peppered with signs. Skewed Obama, but close. Everywhere you drive, signs everywhere. Fewer in 2012, but still many.
This year, it was all Hillary/Kaine but maybe a half percent of yards and not the 33% or so from 2008.
Please know this was a slow motion train wreck for me for a long time. I saw if coming, I felt it coming, I was upset by the risk and what I believed the strategic and cultural blunders that were tailwinds.
My apologies to both of you personally, whom I adore and respect to no end. I want mainly the same basic things you do, just through a different road. I think that road can be built. I think it will.
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Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
People think it will be great! So you are saying it is going to be better than great.WOW
Boston
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
If Trump carries out his big promises (trade, immigration) I imagine his base will be very happy. I doubt they care about this one too much despite the "lock her up" chants. Hillary was defeated; that's the big deal.
Several pundits predicted that when Trump abandoned the Birther claims about Obama, part of his base would desert him. That didn't happen.
Rick James
Footballguy
can we get a HARD DELETE on this thread once and for all?
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
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Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
No, it's not racist. It's ends justify the means politics. Don't think for a second that rich, white conservatives wouldn't do the exact same thing to poor, white neighborhoods if those poor, white people voted the other way. That is, they cut staffing to neighborhood X not because neighborhood X is minority (that would be racist), but because neighborhood X tends to vote a certain way (sleazy politics, but not racist).
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
9 million fewer people voted for R & D this year in the presidential race.
That wasn't because of physical inability to vote.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
~65K fewer people voted for Hillary than Obama in Orange County. Did you guys put up a literacy test or something? Made people buy Rams tickets to vote maybe?
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
First I want to thank you for motivating me into becoming politically active. I was a uninformed a political person but the nastiness of the left representatives on this board towards their fellow americans was utterly disgusting. If it wasn't for your condescending arrogant insulting put downs of americans I would not have voted at all since I had not voted since Bush Sr. , or more importantly become a Trump volunteer and gotten hundreds of people to the booths for Trump. You are absolutely correct that it is better for "you" that the less people voting it better. Because the deplorable, irredeemable un americans are the ones who were not voting.
The mocking derision, blatant corruption, intellectual put downs, racial and cultural insults hand delivered you a big Trump right between the cheeks.
It was a pleasure cancelling your and hundreds of Clinton votes in a swing state. You tim, caused this, you.
I know you won't get it but in 4 year maybe you democrats can try a different slogan because "Let them eat cake" has historically been a loser.
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