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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (8 Viewers)

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squistion said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
squistion said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
And while there is nothing that indicates that the email from Blumenthal (who was not a government employee) was marked classified at the time Clinton received it
:whistle:
Redux

If you don't understand that the name of a foreign CIA human intelligence source is Classified, you're too ignorant to be President. If you understand it but forward that information on an unsecured server then you are far too reckless to be President.
But not too ignorant or reckless to be Vice President, like **** Cheney (see Scooter Libby and Valerie Plame). :hophead:
**** Cheney was not the leaker, it was Richard Armitage. Scooter Libby got in trouble for lying to investigators. The Democrats spent a couple of years and tens of millions of dollars investigating. So I guess we can all agree that outing a CIA operative and misleading investigators is a bad thing.
No, it was Libby:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_Libby

In August 2005, as revealed in grand jury testimony audiotapes played during the trial and reported in many news accounts, Libby testified that he met with Judith Miller, a reporter with the New York Times, on July 8, 2003, and discussed Plame with her.[75]
But Cheney was behind it (unless you believe Scooter went rogue). And Valerie Plame among many others thought so:

http://q13fox.com/2014/10/29/former-cia-operative-valerie-plane-who-was-outed-calls-cheney-a-traitor/

Former outed CIA operative Valerie Plame calls Cheney a traitor

SEATTLE Valerie Plame says former Vice President **** Cheney is a traitor for allegedly having outed her in 2003 as an undercover CIA operative overseas.

Its now been more than a decade since Plame found herself in the center of a political firestorm.

The incident began when Plames husband, former U.S. diplomat Joseph Wilson, was sent to Niger by the George W. Bush administration to investigate claims that Iraq had arranged to buy and import uranium from Niger. Wilson reported to Bush that Iraq had no such program.

But after Bush made the claim during the run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Wilson disclosed what he had found in an op-ed in the New York Times. A week later, columnist Robert Novak, citing two senior administration officials, wrote that Plame was an undercover CIA agent overseas.

Many alleged that the information came indirectly from Cheney and was leaked as political retribution for Wilsons op-ed piece.

Plame, who later resigned from the CIA, is now an author.

Q13 FOX News Matt Lorch sat down with her Wednesday to talk about her life, the scandal that gripped the country, and the threat we face from ISIS.
 
No, it was Libby:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_Libby

In August 2005, as revealed in grand jury testimony audiotapes played during the trial and reported in many news accounts, Libby testified that he met with Judith Miller, a reporter with the New York Times, on July 8, 2003, and discussed Plame with her.[75]
But Cheney was behind it (unless you believe Scooter went rogue). And Valerie Plame among many others thought so:

http://q13fox.com/2014/10/29/former-cia-operative-valerie-plane-who-was-outed-calls-cheney-a-traitor/

Former outed CIA operative Valerie Plame calls Cheney a traitor

SEATTLE Valerie Plame says former Vice President **** Cheney is a traitor for allegedly having outed her in 2003 as an undercover CIA operative overseas.

Its now been more than a decade since Plame found herself in the center of a political firestorm.

The incident began when Plames husband, former U.S. diplomat Joseph Wilson, was sent to Niger by the George W. Bush administration to investigate claims that Iraq had arranged to buy and import uranium from Niger. Wilson reported to Bush that Iraq had no such program.

But after Bush made the claim during the run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Wilson disclosed what he had found in an op-ed in the New York Times. A week later, columnist Robert Novak, citing two senior administration officials, wrote that Plame was an undercover CIA agent overseas.

Many alleged that the information came indirectly from Cheney and was leaked as political retribution for Wilsons op-ed piece.

Plame, who later resigned from the CIA, is now an author.

Q13 FOX News Matt Lorch sat down with her Wednesday to talk about her life, the scandal that gripped the country, and the threat we face from ISIS.
>> Libby - same guy who hooked up Marc Rich's pardon with Bill Clinton and Eric Holder, right?

Question Squistion: was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified" at the time?

 
How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?

 
How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.

 
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How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.
Scooter was not the one who outed Plame, eventhough he may have discussed Plame with the NYT. It was Armitage who disclosed Plame was a CIA operative to Robert Novak, who reported it in his column. There was never any indication that Cheney was involved. It was the wet dream of the liberal media to trace the leak back to Cheney, but the media was greatly disappointed when it was discovered it was Armitage and Libby were the key players, who were considered more moderates and sort of liked by the media.

 
How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.
Ok, but you agree that there was no marking required for Cheney/Libby to know that her identity was Classified, yes?

 
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How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.
Ok, but you agree that there was no marking required for Cheney/Libby to know that her identity was Classified, yes?
Half of his facts are inaccurate, the other half are pure speculation.

 
How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.
Scooter was not the one who outed Plame, eventhough he may have discussed Plame with the NYT. It was Armitage who disclosed Plame was a CIA operative to Robert Novak, who reported it in his column. There was never any indication that Cheney was involved. It was the wet dream of the liberal media to trace the leak back to Cheney, but the media was greatly disappointed when it was discovered it was Armitage and Libby were the key players, who were considered more moderates and sort of liked by the media.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
According to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, Libby first learned of Valerie Wilson's employment at the CIA in early June 2003 from Vice President **** Cheney and proceeded to discuss her with six other government officials in the following days and months before disclosing her name to reporters Judith Miller and Matthew Cooper in early July 2003. Fitzgerald asserts that Vice President Cheney told Libby about Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment as the two crafted a response to an inquiry about Wilson's trip from reporter Walter Pincus. While her name was not disclosed to Pincus, Fitzgerald asserts that Pincus's inquiry "further motivated [Libby] to counter Mr. Wilsons assertions, making it more likely that [Libby's] disclosures to the press concerning Mr. Wilson's wife were not casual disclosures that he had forgotten by the time he was asked about them by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and before the grand jury."[93]
 
How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.
Scooter was not the one who outed Plame, eventhough he may have discussed Plame with the NYT. It was Armitage who disclosed Plame was a CIA operative to Robert Novak, who reported it in his column. There was never any indication that Cheney was involved. It was the wet dream of the liberal media to trace the leak back to Cheney, but the media was greatly disappointed when it was discovered it was Armitage and Libby were the key players, who were considered more moderates and sort of liked by the media.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
According to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, Libby first learned of Valerie Wilson's employment at the CIA in early June 2003 from Vice President **** Cheney and proceeded to discuss her with six other government officials in the following days and months before disclosing her name to reporters Judith Miller and Matthew Cooper in early July 2003. Fitzgerald asserts that Vice President Cheney told Libby about Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment as the two crafted a response to an inquiry about Wilson's trip from reporter Walter Pincus. While her name was not disclosed to Pincus, Fitzgerald asserts that Pincus's inquiry "further motivated [Libby] to counter Mr. Wilsons assertions, making it more likely that [Libby's] disclosures to the press concerning Mr. Wilson's wife were not casual disclosures that he had forgotten by the time he was asked about them by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and before the grand jury."[93]
When Cheney allegedly told Libby that information, her name, wasn't marked Classified.

Hence marking is not a requirement for US gov information to be Classified.

 
How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.
Scooter was not the one who outed Plame, eventhough he may have discussed Plame with the NYT. It was Armitage who disclosed Plame was a CIA operative to Robert Novak, who reported it in his column. There was never any indication that Cheney was involved. It was the wet dream of the liberal media to trace the leak back to Cheney, but the media was greatly disappointed when it was discovered it was Armitage and Libby were the key players, who were considered more moderates and sort of liked by the media.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
According to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, Libby first learned of Valerie Wilson's employment at the CIA in early June 2003 from Vice President **** Cheney and proceeded to discuss her with six other government officials in the following days and months before disclosing her name to reporters Judith Miller and Matthew Cooper in early July 2003. Fitzgerald asserts that Vice President Cheney told Libby about Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment as the two crafted a response to an inquiry about Wilson's trip from reporter Walter Pincus. While her name was not disclosed to Pincus, Fitzgerald asserts that Pincus's inquiry "further motivated [Libby] to counter Mr. Wilsons assertions, making it more likely that [Libby's] disclosures to the press concerning Mr. Wilson's wife were not casual disclosures that he had forgotten by the time he was asked about them by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and before the grand jury."[93]
When Cheney allegedly told Libby that information, her name, wasn't marked Classified.

Hence marking is not a requirement for US gov information to be Classified.
They knew she was an undercover CIA agent and they outed her to reporters to get even with her husband. And deaths of her colleagues may have resulted from that. If you think that in the same league as Hillary forwarding a chain email that had passed through several hands before her, there is no point in discussing this any further.

 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.
Scooter was not the one who outed Plame, eventhough he may have discussed Plame with the NYT. It was Armitage who disclosed Plame was a CIA operative to Robert Novak, who reported it in his column. There was never any indication that Cheney was involved. It was the wet dream of the liberal media to trace the leak back to Cheney, but the media was greatly disappointed when it was discovered it was Armitage and Libby were the key players, who were considered more moderates and sort of liked by the media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
According to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, Libby first learned of Valerie Wilson's employment at the CIA in early June 2003 from Vice President **** Cheney and proceeded to discuss her with six other government officials in the following days and months before disclosing her name to reporters Judith Miller and Matthew Cooper in early July 2003. Fitzgerald asserts that Vice President Cheney told Libby about Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment as the two crafted a response to an inquiry about Wilson's trip from reporter Walter Pincus. While her name was not disclosed to Pincus, Fitzgerald asserts that Pincus's inquiry "further motivated [Libby] to counter Mr. Wilsons assertions, making it more likely that [Libby's] disclosures to the press concerning Mr. Wilson's wife were not casual disclosures that he had forgotten by the time he was asked about them by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and before the grand jury."[93]
Working for the CIA does not equal being a CIA operative. Plame was outed as a CIA operative by a column written by Novak. Novak's source was Armitage. All of the motivations you project onto Cheney and his involvement are pure speculation. Nothing in your posts support what you think it does. You assume too many things which aren't there and you speculate on many others. It is nice you think Cheney was behind it all and was motivated by revenege, but that is just your guess based mostly upon your extreme bias.

 
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Here is what the court ruled:

"Petitioners allege that Novak's July 14, 2003 column publicly disclosed Ms. Wilson's covert CIA employment and that that disclosure 'destroyed her cover as a classified CIA employee.' Petitioners, however, allege that Novak's source was Armitage, and do not allege that any of the three defendants against whom Mr. Wilson presses his First Amendment claim-Cheney, Rove, and Libby-caused that column to be published. In the absence of factual allegations that Mr. Wilson's alleged injury from the public disclosure of his wife's CIA employment is 'fairly traceable' to alleged conduct by Cheney, Rove, or Libby, petitioners have failed to establish Article III jurisdiction over Mr. Wilson's First Amendment claim."[34]
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.
Scooter was not the one who outed Plame, eventhough he may have discussed Plame with the NYT. It was Armitage who disclosed Plame was a CIA operative to Robert Novak, who reported it in his column. There was never any indication that Cheney was involved. It was the wet dream of the liberal media to trace the leak back to Cheney, but the media was greatly disappointed when it was discovered it was Armitage and Libby were the key players, who were considered more moderates and sort of liked by the media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
According to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, Libby first learned of Valerie Wilson's employment at the CIA in early June 2003 from Vice President **** Cheney and proceeded to discuss her with six other government officials in the following days and months before disclosing her name to reporters Judith Miller and Matthew Cooper in early July 2003. Fitzgerald asserts that Vice President Cheney told Libby about Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment as the two crafted a response to an inquiry about Wilson's trip from reporter Walter Pincus. While her name was not disclosed to Pincus, Fitzgerald asserts that Pincus's inquiry "further motivated [Libby] to counter Mr. Wilsons assertions, making it more likely that [Libby's] disclosures to the press concerning Mr. Wilson's wife were not casual disclosures that he had forgotten by the time he was asked about them by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and before the grand jury."[93]
Working for the CIA does not equal being a CIA operative. Plame was outed as a CIA operative by a column written by Novak. Novak's source was Armitage. All of the motivations you project onto Cheney and his involvement are pure speculation. Nothing in your posts support what you think it does. You assume too many things which aren't there and you speculate on many others. It is nice you think Cheney was behind it all and was motivated by revenege, but that is just your guess based mostly upon your extreme bias.
BOOM!

 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair

How screwed up is this?

Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails?

IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation.

The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information.

Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.

Scooter was not the one who outed Plame, eventhough he may have discussed Plame with the NYT. It was Armitage who disclosed Plame was a CIA operative to Robert Novak, who reported it in his column. There was never any indication that Cheney was involved. It was the wet dream of the liberal media to trace the leak back to Cheney, but the media was greatly disappointed when it was discovered it was Armitage and Libby were the key players, who were considered more moderates and sort of liked by the media.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
According to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, Libby first learned of Valerie Wilson's employment at the CIA in early June 2003 from Vice President **** Cheney and proceeded to discuss her with six other government officials in the following days and months before disclosing her name to reporters Judith Miller and Matthew Cooper in early July 2003. Fitzgerald asserts that Vice President Cheney told Libby about Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment as the two crafted a response to an inquiry about Wilson's trip from reporter Walter Pincus. While her name was not disclosed to Pincus, Fitzgerald asserts that Pincus's inquiry "further motivated [Libby] to counter Mr. Wilsons assertions, making it more likely that [Libby's] disclosures to the press concerning Mr. Wilson's wife were not casual disclosures that he had forgotten by the time he was asked about them by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and before the grand jury."[93]
Working for the CIA does not equal being a CIA operative. Plame was outed as a CIA operative by a column written by Novak. Novak's source was Armitage. All of the motivations you project onto Cheney and his involvement are pure speculation. Nothing in your posts support what you think it does. You assume too many things which aren't there and you speculate on many others. It is nice you think Cheney was behind it all and was motivated by revenege, but that is just your guess based mostly upon your extreme bias.
That was also the guess of the prosecutor, Fitzgerald.

 
The point about Cheney/Armitage/Libby isn't about Cheney it's about Plame and Squizz recognizing (whether he realizes it or not) that the Classified nature of Plame's identity had nothing to do with whether Cheney had some sheet of paper with her name on it marked "Classified" in bold red letters on it.

As Squizz has pointed out, Cheney or Armitage (put that issue aside) just knew it was Classified because of the rules of intelligence and diplomacy. By revealing a CIA operative's name and transferring it via unsecured transmission Hillary also did this. Heck so did Blumenthal. That is in and of itself flagrantly a crime.

 
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First Read: Why Clinton's Trade Flip-Flop Is So Unbelievableby Chuck Todd, Mark Murray and Carrie Dann
Why Clinton's flip-flop on trade is so unbelievable

Yes, Hillary Clinton's new opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade accord cleans up something she needed to do before next week's first Democratic debate. And, yes, it puts pressure on Vice President Joe Biden getting into the race (because he'd be on the only major candidate in support of TPP). But make no mistake: This flip-flop isn't believable at all. For starters, there was the time as secretary of state when she said TPP "sets the gold standard in trade agreements." In her book, "Hard Choices" (which she sent out to all the GOP candidates), she called TPP "the signature economic pillar" of the Obama administration's strategy in Asia. And then there's the wiggle room she left for herself, as well as the fact that she hasn't even fully reviewed the trade accord because it's not public yet. "I'm continuing to learn about the details of the new Trans-Pacific Partnership, including looking hard at what's in there to crack down on currency manipulation, which kills American jobs, and to make sure we're not putting the interests of drug companies ahead of patients and consumers. But based on what I know so far, I can't support this agreement," she said in her statement yesterday. And because this opposition is so unbelievable, it feeds every negative stereotype about her -- despite the short-term political benefits.

Why Hillary flipped: to protect her left flank

So why did Clinton flip? It was all about protecting her left flank. As one of us wrote yesterday, Clinton's newfound opposition to TPP protects her against Bernie Sanders' challenge (especially before Tuesday's debate; it helps solidify her support with organized labor; and it makes Biden the only Democrat in favor of the accord (if he gets into the race). But we want to focus on the point about organized labor. As AFL-CIO chief Richard Trumka said on "Meet the Press" last month about Clinton and TPP: "I think if she doesn't take a position on TPP, then you can say she's looking for our vote. If she does take a position on TPP, then she's looking for our support. And the difference is, if you get my vote, I come out on Election Day and I pull the lever. If you've got my support, I get up at 7:00 in the morning, I stuffed 200 envelopes, I make seven calls, I go knock on a few doors, and I get my neighbors all excited about voting for her as well."

And why the reversal didn't do the Obama administration any favors

Here's a final point we want to make about Clinton's new opposition to TPP: It doesn't do the Obama administration any favors, that's for sure. Obama and his team face a situation where the entire Democratic '16 field (for now) opposes the TPP accord, which won't make it easier to twist Democratic arms to get congressional ratification. (In fact, it's the opposite of the situation around the Iran deal, where the party's '16 contenders and much of the base SUPPORTED the Iran deal.) This time, the Obama White House will have to get much of its support from Republicans -- just like it did in winning fast-track authority earlier this year. And as House Ways & Means Chairman Paul Ryan suggested on "MTP Daily" yesterday, House Republicans might have some concerns about the TPP accord. There's still plenty of time to go, but the Obama administration will start the ratification process on shaky ground.

...
http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/first-read-why-clintons-trade-flip-flop-so-unbelievable-n440831

- Chuck Todd, NBC/MSNBC

 
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Hillary may have played into her weaknesses with Keystone and TPP just as she has with the email/dishonesty issue.

Here's Sanders on MTP:

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders-my-consistency-on-issues-presents-contrast-with-hillary-clinton-541824579630

I think he's going to hammer her repeatedly on her on the consistency issue in the debate:

A lot of corporations that shut down here move abroad. So people will have to contrast my consistency and my willingness to stand up to Wall Street and corporations, big corporations, with the secretary.
And it really is the same issue. Sanders does it in a polite, positive, left handed manner by making it about his consistency but what he's really saying is Hillary is just taking positions at whatever times to gain favor and leach off his enthusiasm and his voters, that is she's dishonest in her positions.

 
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First Read: Why Clinton's Trade Flip-Flop Is So Unbelievableby Chuck Todd, Mark Murray and Carrie Dann
Why Clinton's flip-flop on trade is so unbelievable

Yes, Hillary Clinton's new opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade accord cleans up something she needed to do before next week's first Democratic debate. And, yes, it puts pressure on Vice President Joe Biden getting into the race (because he'd be on the only major candidate in support of TPP). But make no mistake: This flip-flop isn't believable at all. For starters, there was the time as secretary of state when she said TPP "sets the gold standard in trade agreements." In her book, "Hard Choices" (which she sent out to all the GOP candidates), she called TPP "the signature economic pillar" of the Obama administration's strategy in Asia. And then there's the wiggle room she left for herself, as well as the fact that she hasn't even fully reviewed the trade accord because it's not public yet. "I'm continuing to learn about the details of the new Trans-Pacific Partnership, including looking hard at what's in there to crack down on currency manipulation, which kills American jobs, and to make sure we're not putting the interests of drug companies ahead of patients and consumers. But based on what I know so far, I can't support this agreement," she said in her statement yesterday. And because this opposition is so unbelievable, it feeds every negative stereotype about her -- despite the short-term political benefits.

Why Hillary flipped: to protect her left flank

So why did Clinton flip? It was all about protecting her left flank. As one of us wrote yesterday, Clinton's newfound opposition to TPP protects her against Bernie Sanders' challenge (especially before Tuesday's debate; it helps solidify her support with organized labor; and it makes Biden the only Democrat in favor of the accord (if he gets into the race). But we want to focus on the point about organized labor. As AFL-CIO chief Richard Trumka said on "Meet the Press" last month about Clinton and TPP: "I think if she doesn't take a position on TPP, then you can say she's looking for our vote. If she does take a position on TPP, then she's looking for our support. And the difference is, if you get my vote, I come out on Election Day and I pull the lever. If you've got my support, I get up at 7:00 in the morning, I stuffed 200 envelopes, I make seven calls, I go knock on a few doors, and I get my neighbors all excited about voting for her as well."

And why the reversal didn't do the Obama administration any favors

Here's a final point we want to make about Clinton's new opposition to TPP: It doesn't do the Obama administration any favors, that's for sure. Obama and his team face a situation where the entire Democratic '16 field (for now) opposes the TPP accord, which won't make it easier to twist Democratic arms to get congressional ratification. (In fact, it's the opposite of the situation around the Iran deal, where the party's '16 contenders and much of the base SUPPORTED the Iran deal.) This time, the Obama White House will have to get much of its support from Republicans -- just like it did in winning fast-track authority earlier this year. And as House Ways & Means Chairman Paul Ryan suggested on "MTP Daily" yesterday, House Republicans might have some concerns about the TPP accord. There's still plenty of time to go, but the Obama administration will start the ratification process on shaky ground.

...
http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/first-read-why-clintons-trade-flip-flop-so-unbelievable-n440831

- Chuck Todd, NBC/MSNBC
Isn't Chuck Todd part of the supposed Right-wing Conspiracy? He's as Conservative as it gets.

 
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On Biden, Davis was confident the vice president would 1) enter the presidential race and 2) have no success.
- That's the best thing in there. That and the "fixer" comment. I feel for the weasel actually, but he should know better than to mouth off on a train.

 
“I want to watch Raymond Donovan, which everybody says I would love,” he said at one point, referring to Showtime’s Ray Donovan, which features a South Boston tough-turned-Hollywood-fixer.

His traveling companions oooohh’d in agreement.

“Oh yeah, it’s about a fixer,” replied one of his fellow travelers.

“It’s like us if we had guns and baseball bats,” added the second companion.
That's Lanny Davis... talking about himself.

 
I want to watch Raymond Donovan, which everybody says I would love, he said at one point, referring to Showtimes Ray Donovan, which features a South Boston tough-turned-Hollywood-fixer.

His traveling companions oooohhd in agreement.

Oh yeah, its about a fixer, replied one of his fellow travelers.

Its like us if we had guns and baseball bats, added the second companion.
That's Lanny Davis... talking about himself.
It is? And why did you call him a weasel?

 
I want to watch Raymond Donovan, which everybody says I would love, he said at one point, referring to Showtimes Ray Donovan, which features a South Boston tough-turned-Hollywood-fixer.

His traveling companions oooohhd in agreement.

Oh yeah, its about a fixer, replied one of his fellow travelers.

Its like us if we had guns and baseball bats, added the second companion.
That's Lanny Davis... talking about himself.
It is?And why did you call him a weasel?
I'm guessing you haven't read his email to Hillary where he figuratively grovels on the floor and begs her for a favor like some queen's vassal?

But it's not just that. I give him credit for having gone on every tv and radio show including Fox from the 90s to today to defend the Clintons when no on else will, but he is completely unscrupulous in everything he says about them. there is no act, no statement, no behavior he will not defend. He's basically their Renfield.

 
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When it comes to the Cluntons you always put such a negative spin on everything. Lanny was never the only defender of the Clintons because the vast majority of "scandals" have turned out to be utter BS. Which means Lanny has been right most of the time over the years.

Beyond that, I know a little about him. He's a genuinely nice and classy guy. Well liked by everyone. His best friend is conservative Michael Medved.

 
When it comes to the Cluntons you always put such a negative spin on everything. Lanny was never the only defender of the Clintons because the vast majority of "scandals" have turned out to be utter BS. Which means Lanny has been right most of the time over the years.

Beyond that, I know a little about him. He's a genuinely nice and classy guy. Well liked by everyone. His best friend is conservative Michael Medved.
I didn't say he was the only one. He is part of a coterie of inside proxies that they send out to various shows. McCaskill and Granholm are two of the newer ones, but Carville and Brazeale are two other of the more notable ones who have been with them this whole time. Odd to see him crawl out the woodwork after all this time.

 
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When it comes to the Cluntons you always put such a negative spin on everything. Lanny was never the only defender of the Clintons because the vast majority of "scandals" have turned out to be utter BS. Which means Lanny has been right most of the time over the years.

Beyond that, I know a little about him. He's a genuinely nice and classy guy. Well liked by everyone. His best friend is conservative Michael Medved.
I didn't say he was the only one. He is part of a coterie of inside proxies that they send out to various shows. McCaskill and Granholm are two of the newer ones, but Carville and Brazeale are two other of the more notable ones who have been with them this whole time. Odd to see him crawl out the woodwork after all this time.
Hes never been away. He's commented, written on stuff all through the years. But now he's in greater demand. Davis is the opposite of Carville. He's mild mannered, a gentleman, and he never attacks anyone.

 
When it comes to the Cluntons you always put such a negative spin on everything. Lanny was never the only defender of the Clintons because the vast majority of "scandals" have turned out to be utter BS. Which means Lanny has been right most of the time over the years.

Beyond that, I know a little about him. He's a genuinely nice and classy guy. Well liked by everyone. His best friend is conservative Michael Medved.
I didn't say he was the only one. He is part of a coterie of inside proxies that they send out to various shows. McCaskill and Granholm are two of the newer ones, but Carville and Brazeale are two other of the more notable ones who have been with them this whole time. Odd to see him crawl out the woodwork after all this time.
Hes never been away. He's commented, written on stuff all through the years. But now he's in greater demand.Davis is the opposite of Carville. He's mild mannered, a gentleman, and he never attacks anyone.
I agree with that last point. Very diplomatic guy on tv.

 
I seriously wonder just how much money these political experts-pundits get paid for defending their party? Lies that they know are lies; but paid to defend regardless. The look on Juan Williams, et al defending the indefensible is junk.

Count me out. I'm not a whore.

Note: Whore: admirably trait & not one to be scorned.

 
timschochet said:
Rohn Jambo said:
Tim, can you find something, anything, nice that Hillary has done for someone else out of the goodness of her heart?
Well for starters the Foundation is non profit and does lots of good works around the world.
It is a slush fund Tim. It is the worst of the worst non-profit.http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2015/04/27/charity-watchdog-clinton-foundation-a-slush-fund-n1991083

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/419791/clinton-foundation-reeks-crooks-thieves-and-hoods-deroy-murdock

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-foundation-reveals-up-to-26million-in-additional-payments/2015/05/21/e49da740-0009-11e5-833c-a2de05b6b2a4_story.html

 
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http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/10/09/andrew-sullivan-hillary-a-unbelievably-useless-terrible-candidate-talent-free-hack/

Blogger Andrew Sullivan slammed Democratic presidential candidate former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as a “talent-free hack,” and openly wondered if “she has any core beliefs” on Friday’s broadcast of HBO’s “Real Time.”

Sullivan added, “A large majority of the country don’t believe a word she’s saying, for good reason. This week, her cynicism reached like an almost perfect Clinton level.”

Sullivan later stated, “She’s a talent-free hack.” He further argued, “The only decision you could really put on her was the disastrous Libya invasion, which repeated every mistake that George W. Bush made, that violated everything that Obama stood, and has led to disaster.”

Sullivan also blasted her email server as a “dumb error,” continuing “60% of the country don’t believe a word she says. … no one gets elected president if no one trusts you, or believes a word you say, for good reason. Do you really believe she genuinely opposes this Pacific trade pact? Do you really — the one she argued for, negotiated for, and this week came out against it? For what reason? She can’t even give a good reason.”

 
How screwed up is this? Isn't Patrick Fitzgerald the former US Attorney who prosecuted Libby and who is also now today running the State Department handling of emails? IIRC Libby went to jail for lying to the investigation. The DOJ is among other things investigating the same crime. What was the crime? The crime is leaking Classified information. Was Valerie Plame's name marked "Classified"? Or should Cheney or Armitage or Libby (your pick) have just known it was Classified?
Plame was an undercover CIA operative and Cheney/Libby knew it and outed her to reporters soley for the purposes of revenge (to get even with her husband IIRC). This was 100% intentional, not some chain email mentioning her name that passed through several other people before it got to them, that they in turn forwarded. We don't know what the consequences of that outing was, it may well have led to the deaths of some of the colleges Plame worked with the front company the CIA had set up.
Scooter was not the one who outed Plame, eventhough he may have discussed Plame with the NYT. It was Armitage who disclosed Plame was a CIA operative to Robert Novak, who reported it in his column. There was never any indication that Cheney was involved. It was the wet dream of the liberal media to trace the leak back to Cheney, but the media was greatly disappointed when it was discovered it was Armitage and Libby were the key players, who were considered more moderates and sort of liked by the media.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
According to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, Libby first learned of Valerie Wilson's employment at the CIA in early June 2003 from Vice President **** Cheney and proceeded to discuss her with six other government officials in the following days and months before disclosing her name to reporters Judith Miller and Matthew Cooper in early July 2003. Fitzgerald asserts that Vice President Cheney told Libby about Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment as the two crafted a response to an inquiry about Wilson's trip from reporter Walter Pincus. While her name was not disclosed to Pincus, Fitzgerald asserts that Pincus's inquiry "further motivated [Libby] to counter Mr. Wilsons assertions, making it more likely that [Libby's] disclosures to the press concerning Mr. Wilson's wife were not casual disclosures that he had forgotten by the time he was asked about them by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and before the grand jury."[93]
When Cheney allegedly told Libby that information, her name, wasn't marked Classified. Hence marking is not a requirement for US gov information to be Classified.
They knew she was an undercover CIA agent and they outed her to reporters to get even with her husband. And deaths of her colleagues may have resulted from that. If you think that in the same league as Hillary forwarding a chain email that had passed through several hands before her, there is no point in discussing this any further.
Plane was well known as an operative well before Novaks column. Andrea Mitchell said as much on national TV. Plame was working stateside and the designation was more technical than actual. They found Novaks source and it doesn't fit your false narrative. Thanks for playing...

 
timschochet said:
Rohn Jambo said:
Tim, can you find something, anything, nice that Hillary has done for someone else out of the goodness of her heart?
Well for starters the Foundation is non profit and does lots of good works around the world.
It is a slush fund Tim. It is the worst of the worst non-profit.http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2015/04/27/charity-watchdog-clinton-foundation-a-slush-fund-n1991083

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/419791/clinton-foundation-reeks-crooks-thieves-and-hoods-deroy-murdock

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-foundation-reveals-up-to-26million-in-additional-payments/2015/05/21/e49da740-0009-11e5-833c-a2de05b6b2a4_story.html
There aren't any facts in anything you posted that proves it's a "slush fund". Lots of suppositions by mostly partisan sources. So far as I know, Hillary has never made a penny off of the Clinton Foundation. If you have any proof otherwise, please show your work. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a fabrication like 99% of all the other so-called "scandals" involving Hillary.

 
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