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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (2 Viewers)

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As a Hillary supporter, I'll say that the one lie that I think can't be explained away is the stuff about being under fire when she landed in Bosnia. That clearly didn't happen, and she deserves criticism for embellishing that story.  I don't think it's a deadly sin, but it certainly plays into the "dishonest narrative", and it's a fair criticism. 
My one ask of you is to search your soul and ask yourself why NBC thought that when Brian Williams did precisely the same thing it detracted from his credibility to host nightly news. Do you understand why they made that decision, and why there was a better choice for that job?

 
And not even a good alias. If you insist on using an alias, at least you should keep track of what you said so that you don't contradict yourself and look foolish when confronted with prior inconsistent statements or positions.

In the 2012 presidential election thread, for months Willie told us he was an independent and undecided on who to vote for. This was met with a great deal of skepticism as his other stated positions seemed to lean way right, particularly his enthusiastic patronage of his local Chick-Fil-A to support their (the owner's) stand against gay marriage. Yes, some independent voters have views like this, but it raised eyebrows here at the time.

Anyway, after months of deliberation (and a couple of podcasts with his friends discussing who they should vote for) he announced on this forum he was voting for Romney. Sadly he forgot that and embarrassed himself by stating recently that he voted for Obama. Now maybe in real life he cast his ballot for Obama, but his Willie Neslon moniker stated for the record a Romney vote.
This is creepy.  How big of a loser do you have to be to have a "file" on another internet poster?  

 
Why is it with some people on this website that when you have a different position than they do, instead of sticking with the discussion, they take it to a personal level? I've never gotten personal with anyone here.  Leave me alone. 
Dude, if I see someone posting under an alias I usually call them out and I wasn't going to make an exception for you here, particularly since you come keep coming into this thread to trash Hillary (there are plenty of other threads where you can do that and be welcome and I will indeed leave you alone as you request if can restrict your Hillary bashing to those threads).

 
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I don't want to quote cobalt and Tims long chain but to answer the questions.... 

I'm a less passionate follower but still very up to date on issues, world news and politics and I've said this before but:

I think it's ridiculously naive for anyone (supporter or not) to think she has no knowledge or hand in many of these drummed up "scandals". If you're here stating, I recognize she has problems and might be involved with a few "below the table" dealings and even a bit of a dishonest person, but I want her as my president anyway, that's the way I feel. 

She's a lifelong politician, most of them have similar histories, pasts, are motivated by power and probably the biggest liars one could ever know. 

I get it but, look at the field. Bernie would be a complete disaster for me personally, so while I like him, he's not for me. I thought Rubio seemed the most normal candidate in the early goings, but his social outlook and Bible thumping is a huge turn off for me. 

I want someone as close to Obama as possible. Scandals, lying sucks but I'd like to be 4 years from now where we are today. It's been a good 8 years imo and I'd like to see it continue. 
I respect this post a lot.  It sees Hillary for what she is, while essentially acknowledging that you think she'll be effective if not despite it, but because of it.

I can't make that leap, and I'm angry at the cynicism of the Party which for years believed that real politics is what goes on outside of the illusion created for carefully managed voting demographics.  So she's what was engineered -- the one choice we get.

I can never get myself to give up to this degree.

 
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My one ask of you is to search your soul and ask yourself why NBC thought that when Brian Williams did precisely the same thing it detracted from his credibility to host nightly news. Do you understand why they made that decision, and why there was a better choice for that job?
No need for soul searching.  While I think it's fair criticism, if the Bosnia embellishment is her worst personal failing after 40 years of public service advocating for the have nots, I don't find it professionally disqualifying.  Especially when embellishing your record is essentially part of the job when running for office.  

Again, not excusable, but certainly not worthy of all the vitriol you're spewing.  Brian Williams doesn't have that equity, and he doesn't give thousands of speeches about his experiences.  Not apples to apples.  

 
LOL MSNBC live in Birmingham and Montgomery.  Two hints, get out of Kelly Ingram Park by nightfall, and Montgomery was trash before the "economic downturn".

 
No need for soul searching.  While I think it's fair criticism, if the Bosnia embellishment is her worst personal failing after 40 years of public service advocating for the have nots, I don't find it professionally disqualifying.  Especially when embellishing your record is essentially part of the job when running for office.  

Again, not excusable, but certainly not worthy of all the vitriol you're spewing.  Brian Williams doesn't have that equity, and he doesn't give thousands of speeches about his experiences.  Not apples to apples.  
Williams was replaced because once you've shown the tendency for self mythology over truth, it calls into question other things you've said and other things you will say.  It is also pretty wel accepted that like mice you see, there are many times that behind the walls.  It's a character thing, not a faux paux.  

 
By the way, in the bucket of when did Hillary change a position based on Wall Street influence, a swath of the latest emails concerns her rebranding a position on a Colombian trade deal.  In 2008, she opposed based on routine violence against union workers there.  While there is no evidence that violence curtailed, she reframed the issue while pushing for support by saying that "at the rate we're going" conditions would be as good as Indiana and Ohio and maybe even as good as Michigan.  

Will be interesting to follow the money back through the investment banks to understand why she really had the change of position.  

 
The biggest success that the conservative media machine has had so far is convincing leftists that what they say about Clinton is true. Until they start using a lottery to determine presidential candidates like jury duty, nobody running is inherently more trustworthy than anyone else, because someone that is that "pure" would not run for office. Kind of like people that want power are often the ones who should not have it. I don't think Clinton is trustworthy, but I really don't think any presidential candidate is or has been, yet for some reason she is getting excessive attention carried over from AM talk radio from the 90's.

 
Williams was replaced because once you've shown the tendency for self mythology over truth, it calls into question other things you've said and other things you will say.  It is also pretty wel accepted that like mice you see, there are many times that behind the walls.  It's a character thing, not a faux paux.  
No, I think he was replaced because he was on NBC and they caved to the criticism against Williams. If he was on Fox nothing would have happened - Bill O'Reilly has told plenty of whoppers about his past journalistic exploits that were proven false (including one about his camera crew being attacked in a war zone which no one remembers except O'Reilly). But Fox just ignored it and let him keep doing his show without even acknowledging it.

 
No, I think he was replaced because he was on NBC and they caved to the criticism against Williams. If he was on Fox nothing would have happened - Bill O'Reilly has told plenty of whoppers about his past journalistic exploits that were proven false (including one about his camera crew being attacked in a war zone which no one remembers except O'Reilly). But Fox just ignored it and let him keep doing his show without even acknowledging it.
Okay, so you make a choice what you're about.  Fox decides that truth doesn't matter, I agree.  NBC and other organizations thing trust and integrity and important, dare say crucial.  When it comes to the highest office in the land, I index to the latter.  Maybe it's just me. :shrug:

 
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/book-alleges-donor-cash-influenced-hillarys-stance-on-colombia-trade-deal-117257

http://www.ibtimes.com/hillary-clinton-pushes-colombia-free-trade-agreement-latest-email-dump-2326068

More on Colombian trade scandal.  Wait, there's that word again: "Scandal."

Must be another one where she's completely blameless.  It's not like her actions ever have anything to do with it...  Like taking $7mish from investment banks in personal speaking fees just before the run for President that you now laughably claim you weren't sure you were going to make.

Nope, just a Right Wing Conspiracy.  Again...  And again...  And...

Don't think there's a there in this?  There is, and one she brought on not just because of the timing and shadiness of the flip-flop, but because of the personal cash made by companies that certainly would have assumed they were buying influence.  And lo and behold.

4 or 8 years of this nonsense woman coming.  It's just going to be one after another of these, because she's dirty as all get out.

 
Okay, so you make a choice what you're about.  Fox decides that truth doesn't matter, I agree.  NBC and other organizations thing trust and integrity and important, dare say crucial.  When it comes to the highest office in the land, I index to the latter.  Maybe it's just me. :shrug:
There are psychological studies that have shown that ordinary people who experience a traumatic event or are in a traumatic situation (like a war zone) can misremember, conflate or mix up what really happened with no intent to deceive. And from my recollection, the Williams situation was overblown, I believe that one of the pilots initially backed a close variation of his version, so what he claimed may not have been that far from actually happened. I don't think it was necessarily an intentional embellishment since it would no sense to make a claim where are numerous witnesses that could easily disprove it. For that reason I give Hillary a bye on her comments.

 
This is a a perfect example of the problem.  I watched the first 3 minutes of this video, and there isn't a single "lie" there.  

Changing positions due to new evidence, time, differing constituencies, etc. isn't a "lie", it's called having a ####### brain.  Everyone on this board has evolved on some issue over the past 10-15 years. That doesn't mean that every single one of us is a "LIAR!!!!!".
In the very first clip she says "I have been very consistent over the course of my entire life, I have always fought for the same values and principles." Then the next couple minutes show how that's untrue.

It's not even that she changes her positions (although I do dislike how much she changes just for political expediency), she doesn't own it at all. I guess I, too, would be afraid to admit I "evolved" if I was running against this guy: 







 
And not even a good alias. If you insist on using an alias, at least you should keep track of what you said so that you don't contradict yourself and look foolish when confronted with prior inconsistent statements or positions.

In the 2012 presidential election thread, for months Willie told us he was an independent and undecided on who to vote for. This was met with a great deal of skepticism as his other stated positions seemed to lean way right, particularly his enthusiastic patronage of his local Chick-Fil-A to support their (the owner's) stand against gay marriage. Yes, some independent voters have views like this, but it raised eyebrows here at the time.

Anyway, after months of deliberation (and a couple of podcasts with his friends discussing who they should vote for) he announced on this forum he was voting for Romney. Sadly he forgot that and embarrassed himself by stating recently that he voted for Obama. Now maybe in real life he cast his ballot for Obama, but his Willie Neslon moniker stated for the record a Romney vote.
Maybe he evolved.  I remember when WetDream burst on the scene he was really into fanny packs but now I never see him post about them.

 
Maybe he evolved.  I remember when WetDream burst on the scene he was really into fanny packs but now I never see him post about them.
Sure it is possible. Hillary and Obama both evolved on the issue of gay marriage. :hophead:

Seriously, I got no problem with people changing their mind. However I do have a problem with revisionist history of someone claiming they had a different position than what they specifically stated in past.

 
Mr. Ham said:
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/book-alleges-donor-cash-influenced-hillarys-stance-on-colombia-trade-deal-117257

http://www.ibtimes.com/hillary-clinton-pushes-colombia-free-trade-agreement-latest-email-dump-2326068

More on Colombian trade scandal.  Wait, there's that word again: "Scandal."

Must be another one where she's completely blameless.  It's not like her actions ever have anything to do with it...  Like taking $7mish from investment banks in personal speaking fees just before the run for President that you now laughably claim you weren't sure you were going to make.

Nope, just a Right Wing Conspiracy.  Again...  And again...  And...

Don't think there's a there in this?  There is, and one she brought on not just because of the timing and shadiness of the flip-flop, but because of the personal cash made by companies that certainly would have assumed they were buying influence.  And lo and behold.

4 or 8 years of this nonsense woman coming.  It's just going to be one after another of these, because she's dirty as all get out.
Read the politico piece. Seems like nothing more than wild allegations from conservatives without a shred of evidence for purely partisan reasons.  What's confusing is why you swallow this nonsense hook, line, and sinker?

 
Read the politico piece. Seems like nothing more than wild allegations from conservatives without a shred of evidence for purely partisan reasons.  What's confusing is why you swallow this nonsense hook, line, and sinker?
Says the guy who believes EVERYTHING Hillary says hook, line and sinker.  You can't even admit she lied on the sniper story.  You called it an "embellishment" when it was clearly a flat-out lie. 

You have an uncanny ability to avoid the truth.

 
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The minorty vote is going to win the nomination and the presidential race for Hillary.  Sanders is a nice guy, but he can't win the minority vote, and his pie in the sky programs would break the country, as most long term democratics realize.

 
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Mr. Ham said:
By the way, in the bucket of when did Hillary change a position based on Wall Street influence, a swath of the latest emails concerns her rebranding a position on a Colombian trade deal.  In 2008, she opposed based on routine violence against union workers there.  While there is no evidence that violence curtailed, she reframed the issue while pushing for support by saying that "at the rate we're going" conditions would be as good as Indiana and Ohio and maybe even as good as Michigan.  

Will be interesting to follow the money back through the investment banks to understand why she really had the change of position.  
My understanding is that additional work protections were added to the Colombian trade deal, per the politico piece you posted in the other post. Specifically:
 

"The Obama administration said it changed its position only after Colombia made additional commitments about labor rights. And that push was not led by Hillary Clinton, but by then-U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk, a campaign aide said. Clinton’s support for the free trade agreement was in line with that of the White House."






So Hillary opposed the trade agreement due to violence against union workers.  The Obama administration negotiated additional worker protections, and then Hillary supporter the trade agreement.

This is a scandal????  Isn't this EXACTLY the way government is supposed to work for the betterment of people?

 
Read the politico piece. Seems like nothing more than wild allegations from conservatives without a shred of evidence for purely partisan reasons.  What's confusing is why you swallow this nonsense hook, line, and sinker?
Tommy skip the Politico piece and read the emails from Hillary they link to. You believe Hillary, right?

 
If Hillary is not prosecuted they might as well just eliminate the laws on the book concerning the  protection of classified information.  

 
The other link from Ham?  The emails where Hillary was suggesting other democrats support the agreement in 2011 after the worker protections were added?
Actual transcript:

Goldman: "Hillary, what if we put worker protections in the bill?"

Hillary: "Will these be enforced in Columbia [sic]?  I mean it is Columbia [sic].  I asked the President there once to reward his Commerce Secretary with a new necktie as a token of my appreciation.  Let's just say that did not go as planned."

[36 seconds of Hillary laugh].

Goldman: "Let's talk about that in Scotsdale next month at our annual conference.  How does Keynote sound?"

[scribbles check]

Hillary: "How bad could it be down there?  Can't be worse than Michigan!"

Goldman: "Let's not go that far...  Maybe Indiana."

Hillary:  "Sure, but eventually Michigan.  Got anymore of those keynotes lying around?"

[A full 7 minutes of Hillary laugh].

Meanwhile, Bill meets on private jet of Colombian banker writing a $100m check to Clinton Foundation.

Banker: So Bill, we have a few keynotes coming up.

Bill: Chaching.  Bring on the coke and hookers.  

 
The other link from Ham?  The emails where Hillary was suggesting other democrats support the agreement in 2011 after the worker protections were added?
The two people she is writing are Michael Froman and Robert Hormats.

Froman came to State from CitiGroup. Hormats was a VP at Goldman Sachs.

https://newrepublic.com/article/120967/wall-street-pays-bankers-work-government-and-wants-it-secret'

http://tunisia.usembassy.gov/robert-hormats-biography.html

Hillary to them?: "At your service."

Froman in response to Hillary telling Levin that the Colombians would have better worker protections than his own home state?: "LOL"

Hormats' response?: "GREAT line."

https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_Feb26thWeb/O-2015-08631FEB26/DOC_0C05779875/C05779875.pdf

https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_Feb26thWeb/O-2015-08631FEB26/DOC_0C05779873/C05779873.pdf

Quite the sales job there.

You think Colombia's worker protections are really better than Michigan's?

Tommy, who would you say she's working for there?

 
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The two people she is writing are Michael Froman and Robert Hormats.

Froman came to State from CitiGroup. Hormats was a VP at Goldman Sachs.

https://newrepublic.com/article/120967/wall-street-pays-bankers-work-government-and-wants-it-secret'

http://tunisia.usembassy.gov/robert-hormats-biography.html

Hillary to them?: "At your service."

Froman in response to Hillary telling Levin that the Colombians would have better worker protections than his own home state?: "LOL"

Hormats' response?: "GREAT line."

https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_Feb26thWeb/O-2015-08631FEB26/DOC_0C05779875/C05779875.pdf

https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_Feb26thWeb/O-2015-08631FEB26/DOC_0C05779873/C05779873.pdf

Quite the sales job there.

You think Colombia's worker protections are really better than Michigan's?

Tommy, who would you say she's working for there?
It's there if any only if you care to see it.  

 
squistion said:
There are psychological studies that have shown that ordinary people who experience a traumatic event or are in a traumatic situation (like a war zone) can misremember, conflate or mix up what really happened with no intent to deceive. And from my recollection, the Williams situation was overblown, I believe that one of the pilots initially backed a close variation of his version, so what he claimed may not have been that far from actually happened. I don't think it was necessarily an intentional embellishment since it would no sense to make a claim where are numerous witnesses that could easily disprove it. For that reason I give Hillary a bye on her comments.
Are you suggesting Hillary was traumatized in the Bosnia incident? This is a particularly interesting hypothesis to me, as I'm a clinical neuropsychologist and have a fair share of trauma and PTSD training.  As an aside, my wife is a fairly well-known researcher in the field as well, so I kind of live with this stuff daily. Anyway, I cannot speak to her state of mind at the time, but knowing what we know about that situation, the video clips of her comportment and disposition, and quite frankly the more parsimonious explanation that she conflated for street cred points, I find this theory of her having a stress-induced memory lapse to be flawed on multiple levels. 

FWIW

 
squistion said:
There are psychological studies that have shown that ordinary people who experience a traumatic event or are in a traumatic situation (like a war zone) can misremember, conflate or mix up what really happened with no intent to deceive. And from my recollection, the Williams situation was overblown, I believe that one of the pilots initially backed a close variation of his version, so what he claimed may not have been that far from actually happened. I don't think it was necessarily an intentional embellishment since it would no sense to make a claim where are numerous witnesses that could easily disprove it. For that reason I give Hillary a bye on her comments.
:lmao:

 
The two people she is writing are Michael Froman and Robert Hormats.

Froman came to State from CitiGroup. Hormats was a VP at Goldman Sachs.

https://newrepublic.com/article/120967/wall-street-pays-bankers-work-government-and-wants-it-secret'

http://tunisia.usembassy.gov/robert-hormats-biography.html

Hillary to them?: "At your service."

Froman in response to Hillary telling Levin that the Colombians would have better worker protections than his own home state?: "LOL"

Hormats' response?: "GREAT line."

https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_Feb26thWeb/O-2015-08631FEB26/DOC_0C05779875/C05779875.pdf

https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_Feb26thWeb/O-2015-08631FEB26/DOC_0C05779873/C05779873.pdf

Quite the sales job there.

You think Colombia's worker protections are really better than Michigan's?

Tommy, who would you say she's working for there?
Wait, you do realize that Hillary was referring to union workers in Wisconsin, Ohio, and Michigan having their collective bargaining rights stripped from them by the republicans in those state legislatures, right?  

 
I'm watching that too, it's on msnbc and CNN. The maniac is also making limiting the 1st Amendment as part of his platform, not exactly an advocate for transparency.
Well, to be fair, Obama campaigned on transparency and not only was his administration NOT transparent, it was one of the worst ever at it.

At least Trump isn't making any claims about it.

 
Wait, you do realize that Hillary was referring to union workers in Wisconsin, Ohio, and Michigan having their collective bargaining rights stripped from them by the republicans in those state legislatures, right?  
You realize that she was showing how cleverly she could spin the issue on a dime, don't you?

 
Adam McCay who wrote The Big Short won an Acadmy Award and just said not to vote for candidates who take money from big banks.  So okay.  I guess Hillary is out.

 
Hillary at her inauguration.  Then, in a puff of smoke, she flies back to her coffin in the White House basement.

vampire_hillary_clinton_by_myjavier007-d76qd48.png


 
Biden his on stage at the Oscars and makes me beg for Lynch to prosecute.  Would vote for him because he's a genuine man of integrity.  

 
The minorty vote is going to win the nomination and the presidential race for Hillary.  Sanders is a nice guy, but he can't win the minority vote, and his pie in the sky programs would break the country, as most long term democratics realize.
Sanders is not part of the Establishment.  Minorities are very comfortable with their relationship with the current Establishment and don't want to change it.   Why else would 90%+ continue to vote for the very Establishment they always gripe about? Because the Establishment is good to them that's why.   Americas young angry socialists are going to become very upset with minorities when they find out that minorities favored the status quo Establishment and were the ones who torpedoed Bernies campaign 

 
thehill.com/policy/national-security/270984-final-clinton-emails-coming-today

Claim that today's last batch of emails contain at least 7 more Top Secret.  Others being haggled over, suggesting more possible.  Eye this release carefully, my friends.  This ones going to have those 2-3 exchanges that Hillary really wishes weren't there.

Interesting day in politics as news organizations start combing with the presumption, "What doesn't she want us to see?"  

We'll know soon.

 
I already thought we were up to 29 TS emails, but I guess those last 7 were based on leaks about this bunch.   We will see if there is any other bombshells.  I kind of doubt it, but the State Department has seem to be dragging their feet on this last batch. 

 
thehill.com/policy/national-security/270984-final-clinton-emails-coming-today

Claim that today's last batch of emails contain at least 7 more Top Secret.  Others being haggled over, suggesting more possible.  Eye this release carefully, my friends.  This ones going to have those 2-3 exchanges that Hillary really wishes weren't there.

Interesting day in politics as news organizations start combing with the presumption, "What doesn't she want us to see?"  

We'll know soon.
Prediction: After today the boogie man will be in another closet. 

 
If Hillary is not prosecuted they might as well just eliminate the laws on the book concerning the  protection of classified information.  
Just save time and make any and all intelligence information open and free access...what the hell? Right?

 
I'm not sure they end up getting released today.  John Kirby said at Friday's press briefing "I can tell you we're going to work really, really hard to make that happen" when he was asked if he was confident they would make today's deadline.  That certainly sounds like hedging to me.

 
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