What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (4 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
bueno said:
Are you really that bad at reading comprehension?
Click to expand...
Well, seeing as I said that Congress can impeach for any reason, and then you attempt to correct me by breaking down the two step process the houses of Congress undertake during an impeachment, what other conclusion is there to draw?

 
bueno said:
Article 2

Section 4 - Disqualification

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Click to expand...
Again, any reason they so choose.  

 
dparker713 said:
Well, seeing as I said that Congress can impeach for any reason, and then you attempt to correct me by breaking down the two step process the houses of Congress undertake during an impeachment, what other conclusion is there to draw?
Click to expand...
The House can impeach for any reason, but being impeached means nothing without conviction. The Senate does not impeach. Therefore your statement that "Congress can impeach" is not correct. Only the lower House of Congress can impeach. Besides, my question was "impeach and convict," not just impeach. Impeachment without conviction is as useless as #### on a nun.

 
timschochet said:
:lmao:

Forget the case against the VP; first you have to have w case against the P! 

If Hillary Clinton is elected, she will not be impeached, since she has not and will not commit any impeachable offenses. 
Click to expand...
This reminds me of a scene in the movie 'Stripes'.  

"Convicted?  No, never convicted."

 
timschochet said:
:lmao:

Forget the case against the VP; first you have to have w case against the P! 

If Hillary Clinton is elected, she will not be impeached, since she has not and will not commit any impeachable offenses. 
Click to expand...
That is open to interpretation by the House.

 
I can just see it.  Instead of 8 years of trying to repeal obamacare, it will be 8 years trying to get HRC convicted of impeachment.  Good times ahead boys and girls.

 
timschochet said:
:lmao:

Forget the case against the VP; first you have to have w case against the P! 

If Hillary Clinton is elected, she will not be impeached, since she has not and will not commit any impeachable offenses. 
Click to expand...
Tim, you continue to state your own purposeful ignorance on the subject, stick with that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
Saints, do YOU believe that Hillary will face impeachment? 
Click to expand...
I don't know. I doubt it, however she may have committed crimes and it's possible that information could come out during the summer, during the fall or next year or even the year after to create a drive for it. One problem with impeachment happening might be that there will be a Democratic Senate and maybe a whole Congress. One driver for it might be a scenario where the FBI reveals - per federal court order - that it does have additional recovered emails and then the court orders them to turn them over for production in one or more of the FOIA cases. Who knows what might come out of that.

In general with the Clintons, as was said in the beginning, we are almost guaranteed a contentious and dysfunctional government on a scope even worse than what we have seen under Obama and Bush. It could get just absurdly ridiculous like the 90s. Why people like you have wanted this I have no idea but we are almost certainly headed there.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
Saints, do YOU believe that Hillary will face impeachment? 
Click to expand...
If Republicans control the House, I think the odds are greater than 50:50 that she will face impeachment. There will have to be something really damning in the emails for her to get convicted in the Senate though.

 
bueno said:
If Republicans control the House, I think the odds are greater than 50:50 that she will face impeachment. There will have to be something really damning in the emails for her to get convicted in the Senate though.
Click to expand...
One very likely scenario is that Hillary filed a sworn affidavit - signed by her - in federal court saying that she had turned over all records. And she may likely also soon be deposed. And she testified before Congress. Well, it's very easy to see a situation, and may already be happening, where it turns out her sworn statements were false and the GOP House goes to the wall to make a point of impeaching her for perjury just like they did with Bill Clinton, and then the whole argument about what is a 'high crime' or 'mis-demeanor' in office amounts to. SOS and very foreseeable and predictable.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pretty wild that since Hillary will almost certainly get impeached that they'll be the first husband and wife presidents and that they'll both have been impeached. :lol:   

 
That would be even more wild if he chooses a VP candidate that congress prefers and they impeach him for some random infraction just to get the VP moved up.

 
It is my understanding that if someone is impeached and convicted by the Senate, they can then be tried in criminal court. I wonder what would happened if anyone is impeached and convicted but evidence is insufficient for a criminal trial. Any history buffs know if this has ever happened? I think in the early days, when Presidents were trying to pack the Supreme Court by appointing ever-increasing numbers of justices, that one President said enough and got Congress to impeach a bunch, but I don't remember the details.

 
So for those of us that can't stand either candidate, the obvious way out is to vote for Trump and urge our Representatives and Senators to impeach and convict him.

 
. . . and now the thread has reached the point where Hillary hasn't even gotten the nomination yet, and already we're discussing impeachment.  Nice candidate you guys picked out.

 
bueno said:
So for those of us that can't stand either candidate, the obvious way out is to vote for Trump and urge our Representatives and Senators to impeach and convict him.
Click to expand...
Not if its Christie.  No thanks.  He is the suck.  Maybe this has been Newt's master plan all along.

 
Oddly some of these deleted emails don't seem to fall into the yoga and wedding planning category.   Hillary can endlessly lie to her loyal mindless minions all she wants, but when she lies to courts and to the Senate, it could be trouble.  

 
Any smoking gun in these new emails?   Has there already been a smoking gun?  I have no idea what's going on with this investigation.  Every few weeks, some new emails are miraculously found.    Can we get a verdict already?   

 
bueno said:
The House can impeach for any reason, but being impeached means nothing without conviction. The Senate does not impeach. Therefore your statement that "Congress can impeach" is not correct. Only the lower House of Congress can impeach. Besides, my question was "impeach and convict," not just impeach. Impeachment without conviction is as useless as #### on a nun.
Click to expand...
True or false - The House of Representatives is one of the two houses of Congress.

 
So how much money did the Clintons receive from their Global Fund? And how much do they still owe in favors to all these foreign heads of state and foreign banks?

Don't let this country be chopped up to foreigners.

 
NutterButter said:
Any smoking gun in these new emails?   Has there already been a smoking gun?  I have no idea what's going on with this investigation.  Every few weeks, some new emails are miraculously found.    Can we get a verdict already?   
Click to expand...
In a report released Monday by Democrats on the House select panel probing the 2012 attacks on a U.S. outpost in Benghazi, Libya, Republican congressional investigators asked questions about Clinton's use of the private email server in interviews with her close aides.

Abedin told interviewers that she was aware of Clinton's heavy use of private emails from the start and that Clinton continued a practice that she had developed as a U.S. senator for New York and as a 2008 presidential candidate. "It was a natural progression from what she was doing previously, and she continued to do so."

Asked repeatedly who serviced Clinton's private server in the basement of her New York home, Abedin identified Justin Cooper, a technology staffer at that time for former President Bill Clinton, and Bryan Pagliano, a State Department technology official who is cooperating with an FBI investigation of Clinton's private server under an immunity deal with prosecutors. Abedin was hazy about Pagliano's role at the agency and his private work overseeing Clinton's server in New York.

Pagliano, who previously worked for Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign, invoked his constitutional right against self-incrimination and declined to answer the committee's questions. In a sworn deposition last week, Pagliano also refused to answer questions posed by lawyers from Judicial Watch, including who paid for the system and who else at the State Department used email accounts on it. Pagliano also would not answer whether he discussed setting up a home server with Clinton prior to her tenure as secretary of state, according to a transcript.
Click to expand...
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/775550d62ef8487a975a2a1c1c8b1100/more-clinton-emails-released-including-some-she-deleted

- I've said this before but IMO the server itself is the smoking gun.

The fact that it was administered in reality by Justin Cooper - a long time aide to Bill Clinton, who ultimately worked with Teneo, which was founded in 2009 - and shared with Teneo, a private investment firm registered on Wall Street, is probably the biggest non-reported detail to come out of this.

The rest of the "smoking" part seems to concern the efforts to create the server and then to hide it and cover up the fact of it from 2009-14.

After that if the emails are ultimately recovered, that's where the smoking guns (multiple) will come from. My guess is they have been recovered.

- eta - btw The AP refers to Cooper as a "technology staffer." Cooper is NOT an IT guy, he has zero background in technology. He also did not have a security clearance.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ministry of Pain said:
So how much money did the Clintons receive from their Global Fund? And how much do they still owe in favors to all these foreign heads of state and foreign banks?

Don't let this country be chopped up to foreigners.
Click to expand...
This would have been a point I heartily agree with you and I guess I do now actually but.... so what? - Trump has the exact same sorts of conflicts abroad.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
So how much money did the Clintons receive from their Global Fund? And how much do they still owe in favors to all these foreign heads of state and foreign banks?

Don't let this country be chopped up to foreigners.
Click to expand...


And btw the McDonnell reversal by the USSC makes any charges against Hillary for the Foundation stuff much harder. The USSC sent grifting politicians a great big bone by greatly narrowing the definition of "official acts" required to prosecute for corruption. I can tell you politicians in my home state are very happy about this ruling right now.

There was no left/right here, all the justices went to the wall for the political class.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
OK, well allow me to rather STRONGLY disagree with the consensus here. Hillary will not be impeached, no matter who controls Congress. There are two reasons for this: legal and political: 

Legal Republicans investigated Bill Clinton for 6 years and found nothing they could use, despite the fact that they really didn't like him. Then came Monica Lewinsky. Because she was smart enough (or strange enough) to save a dress with Bill's semen on it, Bill was PROVEN to have lied under oath. That and ONLY that allowed Congress to vote for impeachment. Monica's word would never have been enough. Suspicion of Bill Clinton over a variety of issues starting with Whitewater would never have been enough. For that impeachment to happen, Bill had to lie under oath and it had to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. 

In the only other example of a Presidential impeachment, Andrew Johnson fired Edward Stanton, the Secretary of War. This violated the Tenure of Office Act (itself unconstitutional) which attempted to restrict Johnson's ability to fire Lincoln's cabinet members. So once again Congress had an action by the President which was crystal clear. 

In Hillary's case, even if you believe she is guilty of criminal activity, it's very murky at best. It's also very confusing to the public. We're not talking about covering up a Watergate break-in here. You would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she deliberately used a private server in order to hide secrets from the public. IMO, they never will. 

Political Beyond the legal aspect is the memory that the impeachment of Bill Clinton only increased his popularity and decreased the popularity of the Republicans who voted to impeach him. Like government shutdowns, that lesson was learned by Republicans. They're not going down this road again. In fact, I strongly suspect that no matter what they claim now, once Hillary is elected they're going to try to work with her as much as possible, because it's pretty clear that bipartisanship is what the majority of the public desires. 

 
timschochet said:
OK, well allow me to rather STRONGLY disagree with the consensus here. Hillary will not be impeached, no matter who controls Congress. There are two reasons for this: legal and political: 

Legal Republicans investigated Bill Clinton for 6 years and found nothing they could use, despite the fact that they really didn't like him. Then came Monica Lewinsky. Because she was smart enough (or strange enough) to save a dress with Bill's semen on it, Bill was PROVEN to have lied under oath. That and ONLY that allowed Congress to vote for impeachment. Monica's word would never have been enough. Suspicion of Bill Clinton over a variety of issues starting with Whitewater would never have been enough. For that impeachment to happen, Bill had to lie under oath and it had to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. 

In the only other example of a Presidential impeachment, Andrew Johnson fired Edward Stanton, the Secretary of War. This violated the Tenure of Office Act (itself unconstitutional) which attempted to restrict Johnson's ability to fire Lincoln's cabinet members. So once again Congress had an action by the President which was crystal clear. 

In Hillary's case, even if you believe she is guilty of criminal activity, it's very murky at best. It's also very confusing to the public. We're not talking about covering up a Watergate break-in here. You would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she deliberately used a private server in order to hide secrets from the public. IMO, they never will. 

Political Beyond the legal aspect is the memory that the impeachment of Bill Clinton only increased his popularity and decreased the popularity of the Republicans who voted to impeach him. Like government shutdowns, that lesson was learned by Republicans. They're not going down this road again. In fact, I strongly suspect that no matter what they claim now, once Hillary is elected they're going to try to work with her as much as possible, because it's pretty clear that bipartisanship is what the majority of the public desires. 
Click to expand...
Tim you have oft discussed how you are bored by this issue and how you purposefully avoid learning anything about it. So by your own statements you have no basis for your claims.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wait, so the house can't impeach for any random reason?  Who is the house proving this to beyond a reasonable?  I thought they just need a simple majority in order to impeach.

 
NutterButter said:
Wait, so the house can't impeach for any random reason?  Who is the house proving this to beyond a reasonable?  I thought they just need a simple majority in order to impeach.
Click to expand...
Of course that's all they need. But in our entire history, they've only done it twice. They need to have a justifiable reason, something that they can clearly argue to the public. 

 
timschochet said:
What does that have to do with what I wrote? Which part of what I wrote do you dispute? 
Click to expand...
I think the dispute is over the fact that you have as much of a grasp of the email/server issue as Trump has over anything.  You talk a lot for someone who doesn't know what he's talking about (and admitted you were too bored to pay attention to it).

 
bueno said:
No #### Sherlock. Try reading what I wrote - and I'll break it down for you.

1. The House impeaches her - high crimes and misdemeanors.

2. The Senate convicts her - she is removed from office.

3. The V.P. is impeached for covering up her high crimes and misdemeanors. The assumption is that, as a member of her party, he would have been part of the vetting process.

4. The V.P. is convicted by the Senate and removed from office.

Can it happen as described?
Click to expand...


dparker713 said:
Congress can impeach a President for any reason they concoct.  
Click to expand...
So again: True or False - The House of Representatives is one of the two houses of Congress.

 
cobalt_27 said:
I think the dispute is over the fact that you have as much of a grasp of the email/server issue as Trump has over anything.  You talk a lot for someone who doesn't know what he's talking about (and admitted you were too bored to pay attention to it).
Click to expand...
But I wasn't discussing the emails. I was discussing whether or not Congress would impeach Hillary, which is a different issue and largely political (even the "legal" part I mentioned is essentially political in nature). 

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

mr. furley
Long Island serial killer suspect in custody
Replies
34
Views
2K
Dezbelief
Dezbelief
krista4
In this thread I rank my favorite Beatles songs: 204-1.
138 139 140
Replies
7K
Views
254K
rockaction
rockaction
HellToupee
***Official*** Joe Biden 2016 Presidential Thread
Replies
35
Views
2K
That one guy
T

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 4 (members: 0, guests: 4)
Back
Top