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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (10 Viewers)

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badmojo1006 said:
So you would rather elect somebody who is so unqualified that he will get Impeached and Convicted? No Thanks. And No, Clinton mishandling her email is not going to change my vote from her to Trump.
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I'm not voting for either. I see Trump as a clown, but Hillary as sloppy, negligent and dishonest.

 
badmojo1006 said:
You brew Beer also? I haven't done it in a long time, but I enjoyed it when I did
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LOL - it is a well-known fact that bueno is as sloppy with a keyboard as Hillary is with classified emails. But I do make wine and mead. Son in law brews the family beer.

 
bueno said:
LOL - it is a well-known fact that bueno is as sloppy with a keyboard as Hillary is with classified emails. But I do make wine and mead. Son in law brews the family beer.
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I never had the balls to make mead. I kept reading horror stories about how difficult it is. 

 
bueno said:
Is protecting the country from Trump more important than keeping whoever could have hacked Hillary's emails from obtaining classified data? Arguably it depends on the hack and the data, but let's assume the worst for this hypothetical.
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Absolutely.  Trump has threatened nuclear proliferation, implementing torture, targeting families, defaulting on the debt, a ban on all Muslims, and disastrous trade policies.  He admires Putin, Hussein and Kim Jong Un.  He lies with intent and he lies out of habit.  Hell, he's even repeatedly talked about banging his daughter.  Any one intelligence leak is less important than allowing a man of Trump's temperament and intelligence to hold the most powerful office in the world.

 
dparker713 said:
Federal prosecutors don't get where they are by taking 50/50 cases to trial.
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Yeah I thought that when I wrote it. They would want an absolute lock solid near certain case. I also think the Feds have always been reluctant to bring mishandling cases to trial for the very reason they don't want them challenged. This is another reason several high profile cases in the past did not come to fruition. Nonetheless contrary to prior arguments here arguments that 793f was violated definitely were themselves more than reasonable. So were the arguments against.

 
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bueno said:
I'm not voting for either. I see Trump as a clown, but Hillary as sloppy, negligent and dishonest.
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Are you saying you don't see Trump as also being sloppy, negligent and dishonest?

Considering some of the mistakes he's made in public statements and on social media, sloppy and negligent would be the best possible characterization.  If he's intentionally spreading dangerous conspiracy theories and retweeting neo-Nazis, he's even worse than we think.  And as for the dishonest part ...

 
dparker713 said:
Nearly all of her emails were made public, and in the others the FBI found no intent to mishandle classified information.  You're ascribing nefarious intent with no evidence at this point.
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This still seems so off to me that Comey went this way. When the State IT department tells her that she's not allowed to setup her own server due to security concerns, and she does it anyway, that certainly seems like intent to mishandle to me.

 
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dparker713 said:
Absolutely.  Trump has threatened nuclear proliferation, implementing torture, targeting families, defaulting on the debt, a ban on all Muslims, and disastrous trade policies.  He admires Putin, Hussein and Kim Jong Un.  He lies with intent and he lies out of habit.  Hell, he's even repeatedly talked about banging his daughter.  Any one intelligence leak is less important than allowing a man of Trump's temperament and intelligence to hold the most powerful office in the world.
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Trump will say anything to get attention. The difference in many cases between what Trump is saying and what is already happening is that Trump isn't concerned about talking about it. Example - Nuclear proliferation - the deal we made with Iran was a surrender and we did nothing to stop North Korea from getting nukes. Implementing torture? We subcontract it out.

 
bueno said:
Trump will say anything to get attention. The difference in many cases between what Trump is saying and what is already happening is that Trump isn't concerned about talking about it. Example - Nuclear proliferation - the deal we made with Iran was a surrender and we did nothing to stop North Korea from getting nukes. Implementing torture? We subcontract it out.
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You're going to need to explain this further.

 
dparker713 said:
Rich Conway said:
Which ridiculous reaction?  All along, my primary objections to Hillary have been: 1) poor judgment, 2) lack of transparency, and 3) disregard for the truth.  She's displayed these same qualities over and over again throughout her career, and throughout this campaign alone.  Now, Comey confirmed all three of them in this one investigation.
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Would you list the times she's displayed poor judgment in your opinion starting as far back as you can.  I'm curious what exactly you mean by this.
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I don't have time to list them all.  Really.  But let's start with Iraq war, setting up a private e-mail server, not bothering with security for said server, her support of DOMA, and support of fracking.

 
dparker713 said:
You're going to need to explain this further.
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My examples weren't enough?

We didn't seem concerned enough to stop North Korea and Iran from developing nukes. Why not Saudi Arabia?

We torture people already. Sometimes we just get other countries to do the dirty work for us.

We target families - it is called bombing.

Trump just says "yeah, I'm okay with it." Well what he is okay with is what we are doing and what I expect Hillary will continue doing.

 
badmojo1006 said:
There is not a viable third party choice this cycle. I am supporting Clinton. It is an easy choice over Trump, but she is not my ideal candidate. But I agree with you that we need to break away from the 2 party system. 
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There has never been a better time to push for an alternative.  I literally can't imagine a better time.  If not now, when?

 
Rich Conway said:
There has never been a better time to push for an alternative.  I literally can't imagine a better time.  If not now, when?
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Considering that any efforts to push for a third party candidate who actually has a decent chance to win would likely take years to come to fruition, and that in the interim we might actually have a Trump presidency if people don't unify to oppose it, I would argue that there's never been a worse time.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Considering that any efforts to push for a third party candidate who actually has a decent chance to win would likely take years to come to fruition, and that in the interim we might actually have a Trump presidency if people don't unify to oppose it, I would argue that there's never been a worse time.
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I disagree. Where there is a vacuum, change occurs rapidly. 

 
dparker713 said:
Eh, I just don't see the relevance at this point.  She was evasive of a FOIA request - that's pretty much every politician ever.  If there were something really damning in her non-classified emails, they'd have found more than they have at this point.
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The "everyone does it" argument is not a good look either

 
Politician Spock said:
I disagree. Where there is a vacuum, change occurs rapidly. 
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There are third party candidates now, including a well-known and respected former governor, and he's not even polling 10%.  You think he's gonna garner enough support to win by November?

Again, the FFA is a poor representation of the electorate. We are way more white, male and well-educated, which means Clinton and Trump support is underrepresented.  There are a LOT of people who support the two major party candidates enthusiastically.  There may be a lack of satisfaction with the choices as compared to previous elections, but it's definitely not a vacuum.

 
At least we will know how they each handle classified information relative to one another once Donald Trump starts getting classified CIA briefings after the convention.

On a related note... JFC, we are two-plus weeks away from Donald Trump getting classified CIA briefings.

 
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To your point Bueno, Hillary HAS apologized for voting for the Iraq War.

Now, regarding the millions of Bush emails that went missing, I didn't care much about that and still don't. My evaluation of George W. Bush as a leader does not touch on that issue (and I don't believe history's will either.) I simply don't find this sort of issue very relevant to how a President performs. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
There are third party candidates now, including a well-known and respected former governor, and he's not even polling 10%.  You think he's gonna garner enough support to win by November?

Again, the FFA is a poor representation of the electorate. We are way more white, male and well-educated, which means Clinton and Trump support is underrepresented.  There are a LOT of people who support the two major party candidates enthusiastically.  There may be a lack of satisfaction with the choices as compared to previous elections, but it's definitely not a vacuum.
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I understand your status quo approach. I despise it, but I understand it. 

 
Politician Spock said:
TobiasFunke said:
Considering that any efforts to push for a third party candidate who actually has a decent chance to win would likely take years to come to fruition, and that in the interim we might actually have a Trump presidency if people don't unify to oppose it, I would argue that there's never been a worse time.
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I disagree. Where there is a vacuum, change occurs rapidly. 
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Just ask the Middle East

 
Given Trump's recent behavior he may start tweeting secret briefings. I found it pretty outrageous that he tweet Lindsey Graham's personal phone number. Good grief.

 
timschochet said:
To your point Bueno, Hillary HAS apologized for voting for the Iraq War.

Now, regarding the millions of Bush emails that went missing, I didn't care much about that and still don't. My evaluation of George W. Bush as a leader does not touch on that issue (and I don't believe history's will either.) I simply don't find this sort of issue very relevant to how a President performs. 
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Hillary said it was a mistake, she didn't say her policy was wrong or that she has changed her policy.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Hillary said it was a mistake, she didn't say her policy was wrong or that she has changed her policy.
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Are we talking about Iraq? Because if so, I have heard her apologize. 

Besides, what is the difference between "a mistake" and "the policy was wrong"? And how would she change her policy now? 

 
timschochet said:
Are we talking about Iraq? Because if so, I have heard her apologize. 

Besides, what is the difference between "a mistake" and "the policy was wrong"? And how would she change her policy now? 
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The difference is if Iran or another country is - allegedly - found to have a WMD program she would do the same thing.

 
Politician Spock said:
I understand your status quo approach. I despise it, but I understand it. 
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It's not a status quo approach.  I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have third parties.  I think the debate rules are too strict, for example, and I'd like to see anyone polling over maybe 7.5 or 10% on the stage.
 
I'm disagreeing with the notion that this is the best time to do it. Trump is a disgrace, he is orders of magnitude worse than any presidential candidate this country has ever seen, including Nixon. IMO the nation's priority for the next four months should be defeating him.  Defend the country's first principles now, improve it later.
 
Politician Spock said:
I disagree. Where there is a vacuum, change occurs rapidly. 
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So you seriously think that in the next 3-4 months we will have a 3rd party candidate rise up and challenge Clinton and Trump for the Presidency? It won't be Johnson or Stein, the two most visible 3rd party Candidates at the moment.

Do you have a name?

 
TobiasFunke said:
 
It's not a status quo approach.  I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have third parties.  I think the debate rules are too strict, for example, and I'd like to see anyone polling over maybe 7.5 or 10% on the stage.
 
I'm disagreeing with the notion that this is the best time to do it. Trump is a disgrace, he is orders of magnitude worse than any presidential candidate this country has ever seen, including Nixon. IMO the nation's priority for the next four months should be defeating him.  Defend the country's first principles now, improve it later.
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Okay... instead of status "quo-ing", you're fear mongering. I despise that even worse. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The difference is if Iran or another country is - allegedly - found to have a WMD program she would do the same thing.
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And she should. We must be prepared to use military force if necessary to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, if it ever comes to that. Every US President, past and present, that has been faced with this as an issue has said the exact same thing. That is a far different issue from whether or not we should have overthrown Saddam Hussein in 2003. 

 
timschochet said:
To your point Bueno, Hillary HAS apologized for voting for the Iraq War.

Now, regarding the millions of Bush emails that went missing, I didn't care much about that and still don't. My evaluation of George W. Bush as a leader does not touch on that issue (and I don't believe history's will either.) I simply don't find this sort of issue very relevant to how a President performs. 
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I missed the apology part.  Can you please link?  

 
timschochet said:
And she should. We must be prepared to use military force if necessary to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, if it ever comes to that. Every US President, past and present, that has been faced with this as an issue has said the exact same thing. That is a far different issue from whether or not we should have overthrown Saddam Hussein in 2003. 
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I think it's the exact same policy at issue myself.

 
So Hillary rolls into AC, craps all over the town, and somehow blames Trump for the whole town going in the dumper.

Ignoring decades of Democratic downward spiral in Atlantic City, which brought down all of New Jersey with it by not allowing North Jersey casinos as New York and Pennsyvlania built casinos closer to the bulk of the jersey population.  She also pointed out Trump abusing bankruptcy laws...which were first exploited en masse in the 90's under the Clinton administration

 
BTW, this apology thing is not a matter of semantics.  Anyone who works in any field of communications understands there is a critical, substantive distinction.

 
cobalt_27 said:
No.  This is a very important distinction.  Saying its a mistake is just saying it was a mistake.  The apology part is really important, and its omission is equally important.
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It was interpreted by most news sources as an apology, which it was.  Sorry, but saying you made a mistake is considered an apology. And it is a matter of semantics contrary to your assertion otherwise.

 
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