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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (10 Viewers)

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cstu said:
“She once said she voted for the 2003 war because of my UN speech. I had to remind her that she voted for it three months before my speech. :),"

Technically she never voted to invade Iraq, she voted to give Bush the power to go to war only if it were “necessary and appropriate in order to defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq,” and to do so only upon the President certifying to Congress that “diplomatic or other peaceful means” would be insufficient to defang Saddam. . 
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Technically Hitler didn't gas the Jews, either 

 
The difference between Trump and Clinton - when it comes to "truth" is simple - its about managing expectations.

With Trump - his image, and thus his expectation, is that of a testosterone-driven, bombastic, in-your-face, grab the world by the balls type of attitude.  His image is that he will stand up to everyone and make them bend to his will.  For better, or worse, a lot of people like that attitude, and want that type of leader.

Clinton, on the other hand, is trying to portray herself as the adult in the room.  The one who will take a broader look at things and not go rushing in, rather taking a considered approach when dealing with issues, looking at a problem from multiple points of view.  A lot of people like that.

When Trump lies - its mostly bravado - and feeds into his image.  We expect a person like Trump to lie and brag alot - so when it happens we are not moved.  We are not disappointed, instead we nod our heads, and think "Trump is who we thought he was"  His supporters would lose more faith if he told the truth than if he lies....

When Clinton lies, it tears down her image of being the adult in the room.  We hold her to a higher standard - because she holds her self up as being the most prepared candidate in the history of ever.  When she is caught in a lie - we think its a calculated parsing of the truth.  What else isn't she telling us.  If we can't trust her, what else does she have going for her?  Will she really take a considered approach - or is she lying about that?  Will she really look at multiple view points, or is she lying about that? 

Its not fair - but the candidates have defined themselves this way, and ironically they have defined their opponents this way.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Part of the problem is people like you who are planning to vote third party or stay home. The polls make it clear that Clinton does much better if you remove third party candidates or if you use a "registered voters" screen instead of "likely voters."

If that's the choice you and others who agree with your perspective choose to make, so be it. But it's a little disingenuous to then marvel at the consequences of that choice.
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Disingenuous then to marvel at the consequence of your choice to support such a dismal candidate in Hillary when Trump presidency?  Its kind of on you folks who turned a blind eye and buried your heads in the sand to lobby for such a compromised candidate, leaving sensible democrats with an abysmal option. 

 
cobalt_27 said:
Disingenuous then to marvel at the consequence of your choice to support such a dismal candidate in Hillary when Trump presidency?  Its kind of on you folks who turned a blind eye and buried your heads in the sand to lobby for such a compromised candidate, leaving sensible democrats with an abysmal option. 
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:goodposting:

 
TobiasFunke said:
So in the last couple days we've got a poll showing Ohio +5 for Trump and now one for Georgia that's just +4 for Trump link

Obama won Ohio twice and easily lost Georgia twice, but Ohio is 12% black and 3 % Hispanic, while Georgia is 31% black and 9% Hispanic. 

It is mind-blowing that this election appears to be more sharply divided along racial lines than 2008 and 2012.
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Why?  Race relations in this country have been becoming less and less the last 10ish years.  It seems like it's only going to get worse.  Don't really have anyone leading to unify anymore, only to make sure "their side" is shouting loudest.  It's sad.  MLK and the like have to be rolling in their graves.  

 
Getzlaf15 said:
Such freaking bull ####.  She could have gained a ton of credibility by saying something like,  "I'm very proud of the work I did after 9 11, but I've been advised by my doctors to rest this weekend due to that cough I've had. I need to be at my best for the debates and this country "  That simple.  Missing something this important to her would be a sign of strength,  not weakness.  
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This is crazy talk.  Hillary missing events because of a "cough" would have fueled Drudge and Co.  

 
shader said:
This can't be true?  If so it's ten times worse than anything that either candidate has done or said.
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No big deal.

Hillary and Trump both have had issues with electronic payments. Maybe they are innocent mistakes, maybe not. I'm sure most credit card companies will resolve any charges that were not intended, hopefully the campaign is willing to take care of it before that is necessary. 

It should cause everyone to be a little concerned about electronic voting though, if the two major candidates/parties screw up something as simple as ACH transactions.

Between 2 candidates that are senior citizens and not tech savvy, political parties that are corrupt, technology and voting machine companies that have financial ties to the candidates, and the evidence of domestic, foreign, and government hacking into allegedly "secure" systems there is little doubt that there is opportunity and motive to tamper with the results.

My guess is whichever candidate/party loses will turn electronic voting into the modern day hanging chad. 

 
This is super strange.  Video from Clinton's campaign stop today.  Attendees in crowd are all taking videos on mobile phones.  Only the images on the phones...  Well, just watch.

https://youtu.be/uk0-eSjT01c

Unless this video itself is altered, I don't know how to explain this.  

 
Mene said:
She's a vampire?  That has to be it
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I think the mostly likely explanation is the attendees were instructed to make it look like they were recording, but told not to so video of the event could be controlled.  Typical deceptive Hillary campaign stuff. Control, deceive.  

 
Mr. Ham said:
I think the mostly likely explanation is the attendees were instructed to make it look like they were recording, but told not to so video of the event could be controlled.  Typical deceptive Hillary campaign stuff. Control, deceive.  
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Assuming this video is verifiable, it shows the extent of pathology in her camp and that no lessons are being learned.

But, I have a hard time understanding how they would pull this off.  Media present and if they caught wind of it, it would get out.

 
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The little girl that took a picture with Hillary coming out of Chelsea's apartment has died of spontaneous combustion, yet another in a long line of mysterious deaths around the Clinton's. 

 
Mr. Ham said:
I think the mostly likely explanation is the attendees were instructed to make it look like they were recording, but told not to so video of the event could be controlled.  Typical deceptive Hillary campaign stuff. Control, deceive.  
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I think my vampire suggestion is a bit more plausible. 

 
Gawain said:
The biggest problem was ######s like you and Tim that kept a great candidate down. You reap what you sow.
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cobalt_27 said:
Disingenuous then to marvel at the consequence of your choice to support such a dismal candidate in Hillary when Trump presidency?  Its kind of on you folks who turned a blind eye and buried your heads in the sand to lobby for such a compromised candidate, leaving sensible democrats with an abysmal option. 
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I supported Sanders and planned to vote for him, but the primary had already been decided by the time I voted.

My posts in defense of Clinton were genuine (I think a good bit of the criticism of her is unwarranted), but also in the interest of not tearing her down among left-leaning voters for the general election. I had a feeling it could be a problem.  Based on the relatively low levels of support she's getting from younger voters and their broad support for third party candidates who seemingly don't align with their actual views and interests at all, it seems my concerns were valid.

And in any event, if you read my previous posts you'll see I do own my responsibility for the outcome of the election, whatever it may be. I was merely pointing out that others- particularly third party voters or people who plan to stay home- should do the same.  This mess is on all of us.

Classy post from Gawain, btw. Maybe sit a couple plays out there, amigo.

 
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cobalt_27 said:
Assuming this video is verifiable, it shows the extent of pathology in her camp and that no lessons are being learned.

But, I have a hard time understanding how they would pull this off.  Media present and if they caught wind of it, it would get out.
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This is my problem with the "campaign control" theory.  I don't dispute that her campaign has done themselves no favors by being so secretive, deceptive, etc.  Something like this though, that's putting a lot of faith in people outside of the campaign.  There is no way something like that goes down without it coming to light shortly after.

 
Enough with the real issues it's time to move onto something more serious...who in God's dear name is dressing her...if they are looking for a Dr. Evil meets June Cleaver look they have hit it out of the park...

 
Mr. Ham said:
This is super strange.  Video from Clinton's campaign stop today.  Attendees in crowd are all taking videos on mobile phones.  Only the images on the phones...  Well, just watch.

https://youtu.be/uk0-eSjT01c

Unless this video itself is altered, I don't know how to explain this.  
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I see the point at the beginning where the images seem static but I think towards the end when Hillary is coming off the stage I could see movement in one of the cameras. This event looks really small so I'm thinking the campaign controlled or knew every person there. - However I wonder how many people were there. These canned appearances have been going on for a while, where the campaign gathers a couple hundred people into a tight frame but then release it to local and regional tv with tv angles that make it look like a much larger event. Hillary modulates her speech so that it sounds like she's talking to thousands, but then again she is shouty. I realize she has had some decent crowds but there have been a lot of these purely staged, deceptively filmed events since the beginning. 

 
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Boston said:
Enough with the real issues it's time to move onto something more serious...who in God's dear name is dressing her...if they are looking for a Dr. Evil meets June Cleaver look they have hit it out of the park...
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Like all fashion I'm guessing this somehow reflect Hillary's own interior sensibilities.

Next they will accessorize by giving her a metallic white cat to pet during her couch interviews.

 
If it turns out Hillary is a vampire I'm not voting for her. I hate all vampires. 

Seriously from Dracula to those dreadful Anne Rice novels to those horrific Twilight movies- vampires are for me without a doubt the most annoying creatures I can think of. I even hated The Count on Sesame Street. If Hillary is one of those I'm out. 

 
timschochet said:
If it turns out Hillary is a vampire I'm not voting for her. I hate all vampires. 

Seriously from Dracula to those dreadful Anne Rice novels to those horrific Twilight movies- vampires are for me without a doubt the most annoying creatures I can think of. I even hated The Count on Sesame Street. If Hillary is one of those I'm out. 
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Anti-vampyrite.

 
Mr. Ham said:
This is super strange.  Video from Clinton's campaign stop today.  Attendees in crowd are all taking videos on mobile phones.  Only the images on the phones...  Well, just watch.

https://youtu.be/uk0-eSjT01c

Unless this video itself is altered, I don't know how to explain this.  
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:lmao:

You have no shame do you? You were totally convinced of the body double. Now you're just moving on to the next conspiracy. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I supported Sanders and planned to vote for him, but the primary had already been decided by the time I voted.

My posts in defense of Clinton were genuine (I think a good bit of the criticism of her is unwarranted), but also in the interest of not tearing her down among left-leaning voters for the general election. I had a feeling it could be a problem.  Based on the relatively low levels of support she's getting from younger voters and their broad support for third party candidates who seemingly don't align with their actual views and interests at all, it seems my concerns were valid.

And in any event, if you read my previous posts you'll see I do own my responsibility for the outcome of the election, whatever it may be. I was merely pointing out that others- particularly third party voters or people who plan to stay home- should do the same.  This mess is on all of us.

Classy post from Gawain, btw. Maybe sit a couple plays out there, amigo.
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And I want to be clear here....the act of voting third party isn't to be seen in a vacuum when it comes to "the blame game" we have going on in here.  This action isn't a single point of judgment.  There's a lot to take into account prior to the general election...as a matter of fact, I'd even suggest the blame begins to decrease (unless you completely refuse to participate until the general....those people, well, yeah...) for those who are engaged from the start.  I asked a genuine question before, but it appears no one else wanted to discuss it.

 
The Commish said:
And I want to be clear here....the act of voting third party isn't to be seen in a vacuum when it comes to "the blame game" we have going on in here.  This action isn't a single point of judgment.  There's a lot to take into account prior to the general election...as a matter of fact, I'd even suggest the blame begins to decrease (unless you completely refuse to participate until the general....those people, well, yeah...) for those who are engaged from the start.  I asked a genuine question before, but it appears no one else wanted to discuss it.
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I apologize, I must have missed it.  I'm hoping to stay out of the Clinton thread going forward, I just popped in to answer those posts directed at me from yesterday.  What was the question?

 
If I'm understanding the electorial map correctly, all of a sudden there are a few different plausible paths (albeit narrow) for Trump to become President.  All of them are predicated on him winning the 24 states carried by Romney and adding Ohio & Florida.

If seems he could lose Pennsylvania and still get there by carrying Colorado, Iowa & Nevada.  If he were to somehow win PA then you could mix and match those other three and he gets there.  

Probably even more concerning would be if Michigan were to fall to Trump and a new poll has him within the margin of error there.  I believe that would open up all sorts of paths to Donald ####### Trump being President.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
If I'm understanding the electorial map correctly, all of a sudden there are a few different plausible paths (albeit narrow) for Trump to become President.  All of them are predicated on him winning the 24 states carried by Romney and adding Ohio & Florida.

If seems he could lose Pennsylvania and still get there by carrying Colorado, Iowa & Nevada.  If he were to somehow win PA then you could mix and match those other three and he gets there.  

Probably even more concerning would be if Michigan were to fall to Trump and a new poll has him within the margin of error there.  I believe that would open up all sorts of paths to Donald ####### Trump being President.
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FWIW, Plouffe believes there's no way he can win CO, VA, or PA.  The demographics and the Dems GOTV efforts in these states in Presidential years are just too good.  He actually seemed to think if it all went to crap, the deciding state would be NH.  He was also pretty assured that the media poll numbers are bad this year (showing Clinton doing worse than she really is) especially in swing states (and especially FL).

 
538 has Hillary down to 60% (from 70 a week ago). 

One significant problem I heard yesterday: 41% of millennials who supported Bernie are now planning to vote for Gary Johnson. That's way too big a number. That alone could allow Trump to win this election. 

These kids don't like Hillary; they never have. But they don't seem to realize what the effect will be of their vote. Both Bernie and Warren are going to Ohio this weekend as part of a plan to reverse this trend; hopefully it's not too late. 

 
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Baloney Sandwich said:
If I'm understanding the electorial map correctly, all of a sudden there are a few different plausible paths (albeit narrow) for Trump to become President.  All of them are predicated on him winning the 24 states carried by Romney and adding Ohio & Florida.

If seems he could lose Pennsylvania and still get there by carrying Colorado, Iowa & Nevada.  If he were to somehow win PA then you could mix and match those other three and he gets there.  

Probably even more concerning would be if Michigan were to fall to Trump and a new poll has him within the margin of error there.  I believe that would open up all sorts of paths to Donald ####### Trump being President.
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Yeah - I don't think Clinton is as secure on the electoral map as her supporters want her to be - Trump does not need Pennsylvania to win.  If Trump can get Michigan by focusing on trade - then I think it becomes an uphill battle for Clinton.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Yeah - I don't think Clinton is as secure on the electoral map as her supporters want her to be - Trump does not need Pennsylvania to win.  If Trump can get Michigan by focusing on trade - then I think it becomes an uphill battle for Clinton.
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Unless she picks up North Carolina, which certainly seems possible given the demographics and the polling there and the fact that the NCGOP has been making fools of themselves over HB2 and their failed voting legislation.

I mentioned this yesterday, but it's crazy that this election seems more sharply divided on racial lines than the last two, where we actually had a black candidate. Clinton seems to be as close formerly deep red Georgia as she is in swing state Ohio (I think she's in real trouble there, and the developing Senate mismatch ain't helping). And doing better in usually red North Carolina than she is in usually blue Iowa.

 
timschochet said:
:lmao:

You have no shame do you? You were totally convinced of the body double. Now you're just moving on to the next conspiracy. 
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You are immune to asking questions.  The fact that the majority of those screens appear to be recording Hillary but aren't makes me wonder who produced and shot that stream.  My specialty is video, so this is a topic I'm a mile deep on.  There are real time filters that can make someone appear 15 years younger by smoothing wrinkles, color correcting facial tones, etc.  All of the morning shows use them.  Was this in fact shot live by the networks, Tim, or was it produced and syndicated through the networks?  I'm guessing it was staged with a friendly crowd, produced and syndicated -- which is hugely troubling. 

You refuse to ask questions.  And I still strongly suspect that was a body double.  

They are playing us all, Tim.

 
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Sammy3469 said:
FWIW, Plouffe believes there's no way he can win CO, VA, or PA.  The demographics and the Dems GOTV efforts in these states in Presidential years are just too good.  He actually seemed to think if it all went to crap, the deciding state would be NH.  He was also pretty assured that the media poll numbers are bad this year (showing Clinton doing worse than she really is) especially in swing states (and especially FL).
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I don't think anyone is factoring in VA, by all accounts that is solid blue state and not factoring into any scenarios.  There are also paths for Trump without PA which I agree seems to be an uphill fight so basically Plouffe better be right about CO but a Trump win in MI more than makes up for losing that one.  Crazy.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I apologize, I must have missed it.  I'm hoping to stay out of the Clinton thread going forward, I just popped in to answer those posts directed at me from yesterday.  What was the question?
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Can't say that I blame you for staying out....there's something sadistically wrong with me that I can't help coming back to this thing :bag:   It wasn't directed to you specifically.  It was a question in general.  Was wondering the thoughts of all those here who acknowledge we all carry a bit of the burden for the mess we're in.  Trying to understand how everyone sees the blame allocation from us (electorate), to the parties, to the candidates, to the media, to the system, everyone/everything.

 
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