cstu
Footballguy
I find it unbelievable that he would be sitting on a huge story like this for so long but would casually tweet it two months before the election. Give me a break.
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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (13 Viewers)
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Rove!
Footballguy
Did it really matter who started it?
we know thatHillary supporter Phil Berg filed the first birther lawsuit. We also have had a number of journalistic pieces that traced the roots to her supporters. Until recently, we did not know how close Sidney Blumenthal was to Hillary. I don't think it would have been much of a story until now....
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[scooter]
Footballguy
Meanwhile, former McClatchy Washington Bureau Chief James Asher tweeted Friday that Blumenthal had “told me in person” that Obama was born in Kenya.
“During the 2008 Democratic primary, Sid Blumenthal visited the Washington Bureau of McClatchy Co.,” Asher said in an email Friday to McClatchy, noting that he was at the time the investigative editor and in charge of Africa coverage.
“During that meeting, Mr. Blumenthal and I met together in my office and he strongly urged me to investigate the exact place of President Obama’s birth, which he suggested was in Kenya.
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Oh look -- Asher contradicting himself already. First he says Blumenthal "told" him that Obama was born in Kenya, THEN he says Blumenthal merely "suggested" Obama was born in Kenya.
"told" <> "suggested"
“During the 2008 Democratic primary, Sid Blumenthal visited the Washington Bureau of McClatchy Co.,” Asher said in an email Friday to McClatchy, noting that he was at the time the investigative editor and in charge of Africa coverage.
“During that meeting, Mr. Blumenthal and I met together in my office and he strongly urged me to investigate the exact place of President Obama’s birth, which he suggested was in Kenya.
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Oh look -- Asher contradicting himself already. First he says Blumenthal "told" him that Obama was born in Kenya, THEN he says Blumenthal merely "suggested" Obama was born in Kenya.
"told" <> "suggested"
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I don't dislike you (or anyone on an anonymous message board); I just think you are a troll. You try to make every thread about you (Trolling 101), you say inflammatory things to get a rise out of people (like making the tasteless JCK crack right after the cops were shot in Dallas), and you constantly play the "Who, me?" card, which is another mark of a troll.
Rove!
Footballguy
Interesting take from 2007
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XwSw9O0agGI
interesting quote from Hillary seems to be right out of the Mark Penn playbook
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XwSw9O0agGI
interesting quote from Hillary seems to be right out of the Mark Penn playbook
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G
Guest
Guest
[scooter]
Footballguy
Here is the only quote from Clinton in that entire clip:
"I think the remarks were very positive...I know Bob [Kerrey], he was being very complimentary of Sen. Obama. He was making a point that Sen. Obama makes himself all the time, that because of his upbringing and his heritage he is, in his view, very well suited to communicate with the rest of the world. And he has just said himself that he wants to have a particular outreach to the Islamic world. So I think Sen. Kerrey was being, you know, very generous in what he said."
What part of that is right out of the Mark Penn playbook?
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
What did they hold back - if the story is true, they investigated Blumenthal's claims, and found them to be untrue. Nothing to report - and certainly nothing that woudl damage Obama in 2008 or 2012. The issue of Clinton's role in Birtherism just came up. Now it turns out Asher is no longer with McClatchy, but he raised it as soon as it became an issue.
Rove!
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That doesn't make any logical sense. Even if "Hillary started it," that would in no way absolve Trump from picking it up and running with it.
Once again, we are dealing with two candidates who are each despicable. One is considerably more despicable than the other, but that doesn't make the other good.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
You do realize who you're responding too, right? "Logic" never factors into any of his posts. He's blind to anything except what Hillary tells him.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Your friend suggests your girlfriend hit on him, I guess you can pretend he never told you anything if you want.
cstu
Footballguy
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timschochet
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
It amuses me to no end how often you write stuff like this. Who cares what you wrote earlier?
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Something is going haywire. Just saw on the local news last night that Trump is gaining ground with black voters in Michigan over the last 2 months. Never thought that Hillary would end up with more baggage than Trump.
The Commish
Footballguy
This is the quandry one finds himself in when they feel it necessary to defend one side or the other. It's getting more and more difficult as we spiral.
The Commish
Footballguy
It's quite amazing that this race is so close yet virtually NONE of the reasons offered up as "working" for Trump are correct. None of them....have you guys noticed that? Email? Nope...no effect. Birther? Nope...no effect. Painting Hillary as dishonest and/or corrupt? Nope no effect.
This leaves me one question to ask. If none of this is working to keep things close and having no effect on her campaign, what IS it that's keeping her so close to Donald Trump? How the #### is it possible that this is single digits?
This leaves me one question to ask. If none of this is working to keep things close and having no effect on her campaign, what IS it that's keeping her so close to Donald Trump? How the #### is it possible that this is single digits?
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Which one represents the hate and which one represents the love? I seriously don't know. That's how bad it is.
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Mister CIA
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
if you're evaluating whether to accept facts based on who it helps you're doing it wrong.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
It's close because a large segment of people voting for Hillary don't even particularly like her as a person. She's just the better of two crappy alternatives, with Trump playing the part of the complete buffoon. I'd definitely be looking hard at a Kasich right now over Hillary. But Trump? Sorry I have too much at stake and too much respect for the country to put forth Trump as a president. That's a joke.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
It's not silly if it's true. And only Hillary people are so paranoid as to think this exonerates Trump. They are both turds for trying to pull this off, Trump inky a bit more so because he took it further. But, intent and groundwork were there with both camps. Hillary just had...wait for it...less stamina to keep working the angle. I suppose good for her.
Phil Elliott
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Kasich was victim to network non stop coverage of Trump all day all the time, for ratings. Too bad for everyone it was all about that, and not platforms or issues.
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timschochet
Footballguy
I think there's a lot of reasons.
1. Weariness with Hillary Clinton.
2. Anger at the established order of things- Trump represents rebellion.
3. Sexism.
4. Ambivalence on the part of millennials who supported Bernie: a lot of them don't see any difference between Hillary and Trump.
5. The news media sucessfully representing this as a horse race.
6. The failure of Hillary to be inspiring.
7. The health issue- Hillary fainting really hurt her.
8. Trump behaving himself in recent weeks (as compared to earlier).
9. The assumption that Hillary is sure to win, which gives a lot of people the belief that they can be more free with their vote than if the election was tighter.
These are in no particular order, but I suspect the last point (#9) is the most telling, and that the current polling will not represent the extent of Hillary's victory.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Kasich wasn't supported by neither the rank and file traditionalists because they were all pushing for Bush and the Tea Party/Trumpers because Democrats seemed too fond of him.
If the rank and file consolodated behind him early instead of pushing Bush....and then Rubio.......they probably could have held Trump off at the pass.
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Thunderlips
Footballguy
1) She's not really liked by the rank and file Democrats. The Clintonistas had been exorcised from Democratic Party leadership by the Obama Machine. Eight years of Obama faded those people, who saw the Clintons as the next Camelot, into the woodwork. They didn't recover to the former level of fervor they once had. I actually think alot of those people regret that Bidens not in it and would be way more pumped up if Biden were running.
2) She's doesn't have panache....particularly when compared to Obama (and also her husband). She's Al Gore to Barack Obama's Bill Clinton. She's chok. Chok's soft white rice in lukewarm water. It has no taste. Thais feed it to small baby and very old people.
3) She's a woman. Even if you don't like Trump...he does present himself as an alpha dog. People like that.
4) I don't think she's resonating with blacks as much as people think she is......at the very least, she's not going to approach the numbers of them at the polls that came out for Obama.. That's why you're seeing Obama stump in the manner he is now.
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Phil Elliott
Footballguy
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
So you can convince yourself to believe several of these things, but completely dismiss the "dishonest" angle, the email, etc? Some of these, I do agree with, but it'd require me to be even more pessimistic of the electorate than I am to believe others.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't dismiss it. The perception of Hillary's dishonesty, which I must admit is pretty widespread, is incorporated into the first item I listed: the general weariness with her.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
C'mon, Tim. That's
The perception of Hillary's dishonesty is because SHE'S DISHONEST AND A LIAR. It's not perception, but reality. 25+ years of this dishonest turd isn't enough evidence?
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timschochet
Footballguy
But the problem with putting too much emphasis on Hillary's dishonesty as a reason for the closeness of this election is that, even if you believe she is dishonest and corrupt, "therefore, Trump" is still a mysterious conclusion.
The Commish
Footballguy
Honesty can't be emphasized enough IMO. I do agree with the second part of this. However, this is the danger of buying into the "lesser of two evils" or "voting against" or "you're wasting your vote if you vote third party" or any of the other memes you can come up with in that area. It's a fine line and most certainly a double edged sword that the establishment types are now seeing and realizing they have to address (if only just for this election). There's no doubt, they will all dismiss the events of this election as outlier in nature. Easier to do that than some self awareness exercises.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Maybe it's not "honesty" per se.... but more that they don't perceive Hillary as being genuine. As much as Trump says says a lot of crap, he comes across as being genuine about what he says despite it being crap. Hillary speaks like she practiced it over and over and over again. I honestly don't know what she really thinks. I only know what she practiced saying. I'm pretty sure I know exactly what Trump thinks, as I think he's being genuine when he speaks. I don't like what he thinks, and won't vote for him, but I can see why a voter who wants president to be genuine would prefer Trump over Hillary.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Questioning whether or not a candidate for POTUS has met the requirements for the position is one thing.
Preaching that there is a conspiracy to cover up the truth is another.
It's fine if Hillary is guilty of the first. Trump is a idiot for being guilty of the 2nd.
If Hillary would just be honest and say that she and her staff questioned it and were satisfied once the evidence was provided, she would separate herself from Trump's accusation. But like usual, Hillary goes for the "lie first" response.
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timschochet
Footballguy
I get your point but I'm having trouble applying it to Trump. Unlike you I have no idea what he truly believes, if anything.
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