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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (5 Viewers)

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TripItUp said:
Correct. I don't believe healthcare is a right.  It's a privilege that you should work for. 

90% of the country has every opportunity to be middle class or even better.  If you don't get there, it's your own damn fault. 

Punishing the middle class with Obamacare to fund those that didn't take advantage of their opportunity...not American and not fair.
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We have provided free health care to the old and very poor for a long time. Obamacare covered more lower income people and subsidized low-middle income people. The people getting screwed now are middle-high income people which is why we need a public option.

 
cstu said:
We have provided free health care to the old and very poor for a long time. Obamacare covered more lower income people and subsidized low-middle income people. The people getting screwed now are middle-high income people which is why we need a public option.
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Yeah i went on obaamacare. I was independent contractor and it cost me a fortune. Unreal how much i paid. 

 
cstu said:
We have provided free health care to the old and very poor for a long time. Obamacare covered more lower income people and subsidized low-middle income people. The people getting screwed now are middle-high income people which is why we need a public option.
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Jesus people just build hospitals, clinics and train loads of doctors and nurses on the public dime. I'm waiting for the actual socialists to show up.

 
TripItUp said:
squistion said:
So, do you believe that if people can't afford or don't have health insurance, they should be denied access to an ER? They (including children) should be allowed to die on the street?
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My healthcare plan is rather nuanced but in general, I'm okay with giving emergency care and preventive care to those that never had an opportunity to attain the wealth to pay for it(that's a very small percentage.)  Those born into poverty, mentally ill etc. etc.  I'm also fully supportive of free everything for children through age 18.

I'm not okay with giving free healthcare to:

1) those that had the opportunity to make something of themselves and pissed it away

2) Those that came into harm via negligence(drunk driving, unprotected sex etc.)

3) Illegal, adult immigrants(exception for children)
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In a true emergency where the patient is separated from any form of ID, how does the ER decide where you belong?   Are you OK being turned away in a life and death situation because no one can determine you aren't one of those people?

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
In a true emergency where the patient is separated from any form of ID, how does the ER decide where you belong?   Are you OK being turned away in a life and death situation because no one can determine you aren't one of those people?
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I assume you are referring to the negligent category....No, of course you don't turn them away, but they get no govt. assistance for payment. They are on the hook for the entire bill. 

You do something stupid, you pay the price...not the hardworking middle class family next door.

 
cstu said:
We have provided free health care to the old and very poor for a long time. Obamacare covered more lower income people and subsidized low-middle income people. The people getting screwed now are middle-high income people which is why we need a public option.
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I would argue the people getting screwed are the lower middle class all the way up to the upper class. 

 
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Skoo said:
Funny, a few years ago Universal Healthcare was the absolute worst possible thing Republicans could imagine. They voted over 50 times to repeal it.

But now that Trump is for it, they're all about it!

"WE DON'T WANT BERNIE AND HIS SOCIALISM, WE WANT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE!!"
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Actually I don't think the average Trump voter does want universal health care.  At least from the ones I know they like him being an outsider and his non politically correct ways.  They are fiercely for his stances on illegal immigration.  That was the issue that ignited his campaign and the more the "liberal media" takes shots at him, the more they like him.  I don't think there is some lock step agreement with him on his takes on every issue.  Granted, I'm from the South so most of the people I know are from the more conservative slant.  The group of voters who voted for him in the NH primary could be quite different. 

 
TripItUp said:
I would argue the people getting screwed are the lower middle class all the way up to the upper class. 
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Exactly.  The people that didn't have insurance before and now have it via Obamacare are also finding the premiums, deductibles and copays out of this world too.  So, in order to get them on Obamacare the Democrats pretty much screwed the middle class.  Forget this hogwash about "upper middle class" only suffering - it's everyone from the middle class on down since they've given us insurance that you can't, effectively, use.

But, hey, if you can say you got someone insured you say that instead, but don't bring up the fact hat the person still can't afford to go to the doctor.  Another big lie.

Anyways, back to the topic of this thread:  Hillary is a lying snake.

 
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Baloney Sandwich said:
So we have the two most disliked Presidential candidates in history and they are about to savage each other for 6 months.  Whoever can maintain a favorability rating above 35% will win.
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Jesus, I think it's anyone that can maintain a favorability rating over 0% will win.  That's going to be a tough threshold for both of them.

 
TripItUp said:
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
In a true emergency where the patient is separated from any form of ID, how does the ER decide where you belong?   Are you OK being turned away in a life and death situation because no one can determine you aren't one of those people?
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I assume you are referring to the negligent category....No, of course you don't turn them away, but they get no govt. assistance for payment. They are on the hook for the entire bill. 

You do something stupid, you pay the price...not the hardworking middle class family next door.
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So you advocate for policy which would exacerbate the cost we all have to pay for free riders.    

 
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More I'm reading... And from mainstream sources... more this is breaking bad for Hillary.  Best case is a serious case is coming for one or more staffers, and then it becomes a completely implausible story that she was unaware, with her defense being pure incompetence as federal crimes were committed under her nose for her convenience. This cannot be good for her at all. Like Chistmas for those who like justice,. Or at least Black Friday or Cyber Monday with assurance that Christmas is around the corner.

 
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Skoo said:
Funny, a few years ago Universal Healthcare was the absolute worst possible thing Republicans could imagine. They voted over 50 times to repeal it.

But now that Trump is for it, they're all about it!

"WE DON'T WANT BERNIE AND HIS SOCIALISM, WE WANT UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE!!"
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What?  You making stuff up now?  No conservative is saying this.

 
Mr. Ham said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-clinton-email-investigation-justice-department-grants-immunity-to-former-state-department-staffer/2016/03/02/e421e39e-e0a0-11e5-9c36-e1902f6b6571_story.html

And the odds of indictment go up past 50/50.

it says the FBI thinks there was CRIMINAL wrong doing and is willing to cut deals for who was responsible, as if there is any doubt.  No way immunity was granted unless he's naming names.  Outstanding!!!
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They are not investigating Hillary, they are investigating the server.  Hillary did nothing wrong but the server could definitely be in trouble.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
They are not investigating Hillary, they are investigating the server.  Hillary did nothing wrong but the server could definitely be in trouble.
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Has the server said anything yet?  Or did it lawyer up?

These server things are bad news.  Don't know why everyone keeps using them. 

 
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BassNBrew said:
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
What policy did I advocate for in the Obamacare thread?  The policy of being informed?
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ACA which has exacerbated the cost we all have to pay for free riders.

Obviously a public option would have been cheaper way to pay for free riders.
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First off I have not advocated for the ACA beyond being glad something was passed in 2010 even if what became law made things worst in the short term.  Nothing was worst than the inertia of status quo.  I'm not a fan of the approach and I repeatedly asked why the same approach which failed spectacularly in the late '90s would work this time.   But the ACA hasn't made anything worst in the big picture, hasn't changed much for most people though of course there are individuals where the previous system worked better and many more who blame it for everything. 

While you guys can go to the ACA thread and debate how much of an impact the ACA actually has had in the facts, the actual facts are, health care premiums have grown slower than they did prior.  Deductible have grown slower than they did prior.  (ETA: Yes these are ESI,) Overall health care costs have grown less than they were prior - even with the expected 2014 spike.   Yes Tim was correct!  (Except for the ridiculous suggestion that anyone should go to that other thread.) And, relevant here  uncompensated care for uninsured is way down.  Will this stay this way?  Who knows!  But it certainly hasn't been the unmitigated disaster to this point.  Maybe it ultimately will be!  Keep the faith!

 
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Mr. Ham said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-clinton-email-investigation-justice-department-grants-immunity-to-former-state-department-staffer/2016/03/02/e421e39e-e0a0-11e5-9c36-e1902f6b6571_story.html

And the odds of indictment go up past 50/50.

it says the FBI thinks there was CRIMINAL wrong doing and is willing to cut deals for who was responsible, as if there is any doubt.  No way immunity was granted unless he's naming names.  Outstanding!!!
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The odds of indicting Hillary are now past 50/50?

Really?

Do you want to go on record for that and make a further fool of yourself?

 
Mr. Ham said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-clinton-email-investigation-justice-department-grants-immunity-to-former-state-department-staffer/2016/03/02/e421e39e-e0a0-11e5-9c36-e1902f6b6571_story.html

And the odds of indictment go up past 50/50.

it says the FBI thinks there was CRIMINAL wrong doing and is willing to cut deals for who was responsible, as if there is any doubt.  No way immunity was granted unless he's naming names.  Outstanding!!!
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Please note this is the Washington Post.

I think we can move past the 'right wing blog', 'anonymous sources' and 'it's not a criminal investigation' bs.

 
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Bottomfeeder Sports said:
First off I have not advocated for the ACA beyond being glad something was passed in 2010 even if what became law made things worst in the short term.  Nothing was worst than the inertia of status quo.  I'm not a fan of the approach and I repeatedly asked why the same approach which failed spectacularly in the late '90s would work this time.   But the ACA hasn't made anything worst in the big picture, hasn't changed much for most people though of course there are individuals where the previous system worked better and many more who blame it for everything. 

While you guys can go to the ACA thread and debate how much of an impact the ACA actually has had in the facts, the actual facts are, health care premiums have grown slower than they did prior.  Deductible have grown slower than they did prior.  (ETA: Yes these are ESI,) Overall health care costs have grown less than they were prior - even with the expected 2014 spike.   Yes Tim was correct!  (Except for the ridiculous suggestion that anyone should go to that other thread.) And, relevant here  uncompensated care for uninsured is way down.  Will this stay this way?  Who knows!  But it certainly hasn't been the unmitigated disaster to this point.  Maybe it ultimately will be!  Keep the faith!
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ACA impacts the individual market, you posted employer sponsored plans.  Many of these are self-insured so who knows what they were skimming of the top.  Your overall cost relates to GDP which means the denominator can easily hide the numerator.  

You could just as easily claim that ACA is causing global warming or mass killings.

 
Fyi - Adam Goldman covered the Petraeus prosecution for the Post. I don't think he's covered the Hillary email investigation yet, but it seems he's covering it now.

 
As the FBI looks to wrap up its investigation in the coming months, agents are likely to want to interview Clinton and her senior aides about the decision to use a private server, how it was set up, and whether any of the participants knew they were sending classified information in emails, current and former officials said.

...

Former federal prosecutor Glen Kopp said it is not surprising that agents want to interview Clinton and her aides.

“They are within the zone of interest of the investigation,” he said.

A request to interview her would have to be reviewed by top level officials at both the FBI and the Justice Department, a former official said.

As part of those interviews, the FBI would also seek to establish that Clinton and her aides understood the policies and protocols for handling classified information, former officials said. ...
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I know that Saints. I was commenting on Mr Ham's completely unwarranted assertion that the granting of this immunity means the chances of an indictment for Hillary is over 50%. 

 
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