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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (3 Viewers)

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Mr. Ham said:
In seriousness, the rest of the world (Western countries anyway) tend to have press that's much more rooted in the truth.  So they will tend to have more disdain, like they did with Bush before we discovered over 6-7 years what everyone else knew way earlier on.  
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Lol. Hillary Clinton is highly respected around the world. 

 
In fact just yesterday I was listening to an interview with a journalist who covered Hillary during her time as Secretary of State- said in several countries the public regarded her as a rock star- especially in India, where large crowds lined up to hear her speak. 

 
timschochet said:
In fact just yesterday I was listening to an interview with a journalist who covered Hillary during her time as Secretary of State- said in several countries the public regarded her as a rock star- especially in India, where large crowds lined up to hear her speak. 
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Being a rock star/popular <> being respected 

 
timschochet said:
In fact just yesterday I was listening to an interview with a journalist who covered Hillary during her time as Secretary of State- said in several countries the public regarded her as a rock star- especially in India, where large crowds lined up to hear her speak. 
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cows are sacred to them as well..  

 
timschochet said:
In fact just yesterday I was listening to an interview with a journalist who covered Hillary during her time as Secretary of State- said in several countries the public regarded her as a rock star- especially in India, where large crowds lined up to hear her speak. 
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I'm surprised that so many Indians could afford to attend a Hillary speech.  Good for them.

 
timschochet said:
The journalist also said that leaders around the world had high regard for her. 
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Well, if the journalist said so, it must be true.  At least it speaks more to your point than crowds in India.  I suspect Hillary gets a bit of a halo effect from Bill's presidency, as opposed to high respect based on her brief, checkered tenure as SoS.

 
cobalt_27 said:
Well, if the journalist said so, it must be true.  At least it speaks more to your point than crowds in India.  I suspect Hillary gets a bit of a halo effect from Bill's presidency, as opposed to high respect based on her brief, checkered tenure as SoS.
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No this isn't true. Hillary is respected for being an outgoing First Lady and prominent senator, but it was her knowledge as Secretary of State that made her so well respected. She knew the details that concerned the governments she talked to, which they found very opposite the Bush administration. 

 
timschochet said:
No this isn't true. Hillary is respected for being an outgoing First Lady and prominent senator, but it was her knowledge as Secretary of State that made her so well respected. She knew the details that concerned the governments she talked to, which they found very opposite the Bush administration. 
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Worst approval ratings for a First Lady, by far. Fact.

 
timschochet said:
No this isn't true. Hillary is respected for being an outgoing First Lady and prominent senator, but it was her knowledge as Secretary of State that made her so well respected. She knew the details that concerned the governments she talked to, which they found very opposite the Bush administration. 
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Respected as an outgoing First Lady?  Come on, Tim.

A prominent senator?  Come on, Tim.  She was as non-descript as they come, not at all someone who moved the chains.  Add to that, terrible decisions with her votes, many of which were self-serving.

A Secretary of State that knew the details?  Again, come on, Tim.  Everyone who is Secretary of State knows the details of the governments they talk to.  It's a pre-requisite of the job.  And, her tenure at that job, as well as a Senator, as well as a First Lady is not the glowing resume you are trying so hard to manufacture.  She has big problems.  And, Trump is going to crush her on all of it.  I despise the man and prefer anything as president over him.  But, your narrative around Hillary is going to be bruised and battered once he's through with her.  

 
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timschochet said:
Because we've never had a woman as President or VP? So why the hell not? 
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We've never had a lot of fill-in-the-blank as President or VP, but that doesn't mean it would be "awesome" if we did.  For most people, there's a heck of a lot more to consider.

timschochet said:
Identity politics is not always a bad thing. It will be good to have a woman President, finally. 
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Sure, it's a good thing when you like the candidate, bad when you don't.  Very "nuanced".   :rolleyes:

 
timschochet said:
Not around the world. And in this country not when she left either. 
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I'm sure the polling around the world is (a) totally comprehensive and valid and (b) she was by far among the worst viewed FL's in history when Bill left office.  She is an incredibly bad presidential nominee, if for no other reason than she is loathed even by moderates, such as myself (I'm a democrat, in fact).  Consider all the struggles she's having putting Bernie away.  She'll win, of course.  But, in no other universe should he have made it this far.  He did, not because people by and large people want socialism....he did so because Hillary is such a terrible option, he is the lesser of two evils.  I am among millions in this country who feel this way.

 
BeaverCleaver said:
tommyGunZ said:
And yet Tim called Hillary winning the entire time, while you and others spent the last 6 months deriding her and her chances.

Hope you enjoy the Hillary era Jon.  
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Very few people have predicted that Sanders would win not to mention the fact this race is much closer than any of the Hillary supporters thought it would be.
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TGunz isn't big on reality much less unbiased data points

 
BeaverCleaver said:
Tim's old standby......"I heard it on the radio" :lmao:
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Paired with "A journalist said [something I agree with]."  

Which, incidentally, Tim would make the worst scientist ever, cherry-picking data that fits his beliefs, while ignoring the overwhelming majority of evidence that contradicts it.

 
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humpback said:
We've never had a lot of fill-in-the-blank as President or VP, but that doesn't mean it would be "awesome" if we did.  For most people, there's a heck of a lot more to consider.

Sure, it's a good thing when you like the candidate, bad when you don't.  Very "nuanced".   :rolleyes:
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I assume Tim meant that having a female president is a good thing when you look only that that factor, which is true. It's good for the country to have a female president because it would inspire young women to believe that there are no limits on what they can do with their lives and help further dispel gender role stereotypes, which is a good thing. There is value in that.

That doesn't mean that the value outweighs any negatives you perceive, of course. I'd say the same thing about Sarah Palin becoming president, but that doesn't mean I think it would be good if Sarah Palin was president, because she's ####ing horrible, and that horribleness would clearly outweigh the benefit should would provide for future generations when it comes to gender equality.  Presumably you feel the same way about Clinton, which is fine but doesn't make Tim wrong.

 
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Look guys the assertion was made that Hillary isn't respected overseas. That's a false assertion. 

I also believe that she will be highly respected as President here. She will never be loved; she doesn't have the personality for that. But she will be regarded as excellent, I predict. 

 
Why do I care that people in other countries like/dislike Hillary?  I care about what the people in this country think primarily because they know a lot more about her than people in these other countries.

 
timschochet said:
Look guys the assertion was made that Hillary isn't respected overseas. That's a false assertion. 

I also believe that she will be highly respected as President here. She will never be loved; she doesn't have the personality for that. But she will be regarded as excellent, I predict. 
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Tim, she's not even going to win.  And, even if she did, nothing in her political background suggests excellence in anything.  She failed on health care.  She failed on her biggest vote as Senator.  She failed multiple times as SoS, which cost lives and threatened national security.  Sweep it all that under the rug, and she still is left with nothing distinguishing--nothing predictive of anything approximating 'excellence' as a President.

It seems people who like her just fall back on the idea that she knows stuff.  Which may be a necessary, but certainly insufficient qualification for being president.

 
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TobiasFunke said:
I assume Tim meant that having a female president is a good thing when you look only that that factor, which is true. It's good for the country to have a female president because it would inspire young women to believe that there are no limits on what they can do with their lives and help further dispel gender role stereotypes, which is a good thing. There is value in that.

That doesn't mean that the value outweighs any negatives you perceive, of course. I'd say the same thing about Sarah Palin becoming president, but that doesn't mean I think it would be good if Sarah Palin was president, because she's ####ing horrible, and that horribleness would clearly outweigh the benefit should would provide for future generations when it comes to gender equality.  Presumably you feel the same way about Clinton, which is fine but doesn't make Tim wrong.
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No reason to make assumptions here, just read what he wrote- he said it would be awesome to have two women (chuckle), and when I asked him why and if anything else mattered, he said "because we've never had a woman as President or VP".

 
humpback said:
No reason to make assumptions here, just read what he wrote- he said it would be awesome to have two women (chuckle), and when I asked him why and if anything else mattered, he said "because we've never had a woman as President or VP".
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Fair enough.  I was speaking for him/assuming what he meant, which I shouldn't have done.

 
cobalt_27 said:
Tim, she's not even going to win.  And, even if she did, nothing in her political background suggests excellence in anything.  She failed on health care.  She failed on her biggest vote as Senator.  She failed multiple times as SoS, which cost lives and threatened national security.  Sweep it all that under the rug, and she still is left with nothing distinguishing--nothing predictive of anything approximating 'excellence' as a President.

It seems people who like her just fall back on the idea that she knows stuff.  Which may be a necessary, but certainly insufficient qualification for being president.
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I agree with almost none of this. I think she was an excellent First Lady, a fine senator, and a superb Secretary of State. I would never call her a failure. 

 
timschochet said:
Look guys the assertion was made that Hillary isn't respected overseas. That's a false assertion. 

I also believe that she will be highly respected as President here. She will never be loved; she doesn't have the personality for that. But she will be regarded as excellent, I predict. 
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The best thing about her being a woman is that she has a huge pressure to do well to make sure people don't view having a woman President as a mistake.

 
cobalt_27 said:
Respected as an outgoing First Lady?  Come on, Tim.

A prominent senator?  Come on, Tim.  She was as non-descript as they come, not at all someone who moved the chains.  Add to that, terrible decisions with her votes, many of which were self-serving.

A Secretary of State that knew the details?  Again, come on, Tim.  Everyone who is Secretary of State knows the details of the governments they talk to.  It's a pre-requisite of the job.  And, her tenure at that job, as well as a Senator, as well as a First Lady is not the glowing resume you are trying so hard to manufacture.  She has big problems.  And, Trump is going to crush her on all of it.  I despise the man and prefer anything as president over him.  But, your narrative around Hillary is going to be bruised and battered once he's through with her.  
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He's going to attack her for lack of experience?

 
humpback said:
TobiasFunke said:
I assume Tim meant that having a female president is a good thing when you look only that that factor, which is true. It's good for the country to have a female president because it would inspire young women to believe that there are no limits on what they can do with their lives and help further dispel gender role stereotypes, which is a good thing. There is value in that.

That doesn't mean that the value outweighs any negatives you perceive, of course. I'd say the same thing about Sarah Palin becoming president, but that doesn't mean I think it would be good if Sarah Palin was president, because she's ####ing horrible, and that horribleness would clearly outweigh the benefit should would provide for future generations when it comes to gender equality.  Presumably you feel the same way about Clinton, which is fine but doesn't make Tim wrong.
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No reason to make assumptions here, just read what he wrote- he said it would be awesome to have two women (chuckle), and when I asked him why and if anything else mattered, he said "because we've never had a woman as President or VP".
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This usually doesn't go well.  What typically happens (with me anyway) is Tim will type something up, he'll get challenged and then provide a "what I meant to say" sort of rebuttal that you'd never have been able to get to with the words he used in the original comment that was challenged.  One of two things is happening.  Either Tim is really bad at conveying his thoughts or he doesn't think things through originally and when challenged walks his initial comments using this method.

 
timschochet said:
I agree with almost none of this. I think she was an excellent First Lady, a fine senator, and a superb Secretary of State. I would never call her a failure. 
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I really wish I'd have bookmarked the quote of you calling her villainous cartoon character names so I could post it with a :lmao: when you go this path.  So perfect.

 
cstu said:
The best thing about her being a woman is that she has a huge pressure to do well to make sure people don't view having a woman President as a mistake.
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I thought it was the prerogative to have a little fun.

Oh, oh, oh, go totally crazy-forget I'm a lady
Men's shirts-short skirts
Oh, oh, oh, really go wild-yeah, doin' it in style
Oh, oh, oh, get in the action-feel the attraction
Color my hair-do what I dare
Oh, oh, oh, I wanna be free-yeah, to feel the way I feel
Man! I feel like a woman!

 
cstu said:
He's going to attack her for lack of experience?
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Why not....if he can get her to the "well, you're no better" level of defense, that's a win as far as he's concerned.  I'm confident she'd fall for it too.  She (and her supporters for that matter) have a problem when the mirror is held to her face, can you imagine what would happen if Trump went scorched earth mud slinging?  Must see TV.

 
Henry Ford said:
I thought it was the prerogative to have a little fun.

Oh, oh, oh, go totally crazy-forget I'm a lady
Men's shirts-short skirts
Oh, oh, oh, really go wild-yeah, doin' it in style
Oh, oh, oh, get in the action-feel the attraction
Color my hair-do what I dare
Oh, oh, oh, I wanna be free-yeah, to feel the way I feel
Man! I feel like a woman!
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:lmao:   I actually got that :bag:

 
timschochet said:
Look guys the assertion was made that Hillary isn't respected overseas. That's a false assertion. 

I also believe that she will be highly respected as President here. She will never be loved; she doesn't have the personality for that. But she will be regarded as excellent, I predict. 
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Two different things going on overseas - polling, name recognition of First Ladies. People have heard of them. Hillary's approval while still the highest (10%?) dropped since she left as First Lady. How many American female political names are even known outside the US? Hillary? Michelle Obama, then...?

Vs the respect of foreign leaders and diplomats, there's no evidence for your contention there. What do you think Lavrov thinks of her for instance? Russia became a full blown geopolitical disaster and serious problem under Hillary's watch.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Two different things going on overseas - polling, name recognition of First Ladies. People have heard of them. Hillary's approval while still the highest (10%?) dropped since she left as First Lady. How many American female political names are even known outside the US? Hillary? Michelle Obama, then...?

Vs the respect of foreign leaders and diplomats, there's no evidence for your contention there. What do you think Lavrov thinks of her for instance? Russia became a full blown geopolitical disaster and serious problem under Hillary's watch.
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To the contrary, there's plenty of evidence that Hillary is both beloved and highly respected overseas: 

http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-two-front-war-312833

 
GrandpaRox said:
So basically for the first time I can remember no matter which party wins, we will have a president that most of the people in the country and the world, doesn't like, trust or respect. 

What a sad state of affairs we find ourselves in. Going to be 4 years of mud slinging, scandals, distrust and having someone leading us that no one in the world respects. 
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Link?

I'm not sure that is true about Hillary, at least at the moment

 
In the two decades since, her reputation as a global leader of women has grown. It’s not hyperbole to say that it would be difficult to find a woman on the planet—no matter how remote, illiterate or abused, whether living in urban or village squalor, peeking warily from a veil or burqa—who hasn’t both heard of Clinton and likely regards her as a champion and symbol of hope.

None of the great female leaders in recent history—Indira Gandhi, Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir—has ever resonated globally like Hillary Clinton.

“I’ve traveled in 60 countries, and she is really seen as the hope for women worldwide,” says philanthropist, former ambassador to Austria and longtime Hillary supporter Swanee Hunt. “It’s not just certainly that she’s a woman. It’s that as a woman she brings a certain perspective, and they have never seen that perspective, that compassion and that rigor for policy. They have never seen that in a potential leader of a superpower.”

 
timschochet said:
“I’ve traveled in 60 countries, and she is really seen as the hope for women worldwide,” says philanthropist, former ambassador to Austria and longtime Hillary supporter Swanee Hunt. “It’s not just certainly that she’s a woman. It’s that as a woman she brings a certain perspective, and they have never seen that perspective, that compassion and that rigor for policy. They have never seen that in a potential leader of a superpower.”
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Sinn Fein said:
I don't have to leave the house to find a woman who does not view Clinton as a champion or symbol of hope. :shrug:
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Well luckily for the woman that is with you, she doesn't live in a country where women are especially mistreated. She can thank a lot of people for that, including Hillary Clinton. 

 
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