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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (1 Viewer)

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Please. I heard that crap everyday in this thread by Saints, Sinn Fein and friends before the first debate and the Benghazi hearings - that Hillary was doomed by her unfavorables and she has to something to stop this free fall. I said it was silly then and I was right, and I think it is silly now.
Squiz no one said she was doomed. My question last late summer was what would stop her free fall. It was an open question. I think three things happened: Biden didn't get in, Sanders did the ole on the email issue, and Sanders couldn't make the leap of momentum from Iowa & NH into the South & especially Nevada. I explicitly hinged what I said on Biden getting in, the polling backed that at the time. Hillary's the Grateful Dead of politicians, she has just survived but her music is nothing special. So the DNC kept all mainstream competition out, Biden stayed out, now she gets Trump, she will win by default with the negated vote. It will look like a mandate but it won't be one. 

 
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Squiz no one said she was doomed. My question last late summer was what would stop her free fall. It was an open question. I think three things happened: Biden didn't get in, Sanders did the ole on the email issue, and Sanders couldn't make the leap of momentum from Iowa & NH into the South & especially Nevada. I explicitly hinged what I said on Biden getting in, the polling backed that at the time. Hillary's the Grateful Dead of politicians, she has just survived but her music is nothing special. So the DNC kept all mainstream competition out, Biden stayed out, now she gets Trump, she will win by default with the negated vote. It will look like a mandate but it won't be one. 
Dude, you were making dire predictions on a daily basis it was all over for Hillary. Please.

 
Please. I heard that crap everyday in this thread by Saints, Sinn Fein and friends before the first debate and the Benghazi hearings - that Hillary was doomed by her unfavorables and she has to something to stop this free fall. I said it was silly then and I was right, and I think it is silly now.
I guess.  Whatever you say.  

People dislike her a lot more than they did at this time last year.  And, she's lost 17 states to a tattered 74-year-old socialist Jew.  So, I mean, you and Tim can believe all you want that she's a perfect candidate.  But, as democrat, watching her struggle to put Bernie away, I can only hope that Trump's negatives stay as high as they are...or worsen.  She is not a candidate I have a high amount of confidence in going into the general.

 
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I guess.  Whatever you say.  

People dislike her a lot more than they did at this time last year.  And, she's lost 17 states to a tattered 74-year-old socialist Jew.  So, I mean, you and Tim can believe all you want that she's a perfect candidate.  But, as democrat, watching her struggle to put Bernie away, I can only hope that Trump's negatives stay as high as they are...or worsen.  She is not a candidate I have a high amount of confidence in going into the general.
I wish the Hillary haters would stop with this Straw Man. I have never stated and have never believed that Hillary is a perfect candidate and I have said so numerous times (as has Tim). And she has more delegates and has gotten something like 2 1/2 million more votes than Bernie, so the voters in the Democratic Party so far seem to favor her over this 74 year old tattered socialist.

 
I wish the Hillary haters would stop with this Straw Man. I have never stated and have never believed that Hillary is a perfect candidate and I have said so numerous times (as has Tim). And she has more delegates and has gotten something like 2 1/2 million more votes than Bernie, so the voters in the Democratic Party so far seem to favor her over this 74 year old tattered socialist.
Sure, it has.  That she lost 17 states is not something to dismiss, if you're thinking about this with any sense of seriousness.  She should have obliterated him.

 
Sure, it has.  That she lost 17 states is not something to dismiss, if you're thinking about this with any sense of seriousness.  She should have obliterated him.
How many of those states were caucuses? And I got news for you, they don't award equal delegates for the number of states each candidate has won, the number of delegates instead is proportional to the population of that state (strange but true fun fact).

 
How many of those states were caucuses? And I got news for you, they don't award equal delegates for the number of states each candidate has won, the number of delegates instead is proportional to the population of that state (strange but true fun fact).
What point are you trying to make?

 
How many of those states were caucuses? And I got news for you, they don't award equal delegates for the number of states each candidate has won, the number of delegates instead is proportional to the population of that state (strange but true fun fact).
You're missing the point.  Under no circumstances should she have lost a single caucus or primary.  Not against Bernie.

 
You're missing the point.  Under no circumstances should she have lost a single caucus or primary.  Not against Bernie.
She has been subjected to non-stop character assassination on Benghazi and the emails for about two years. It is to her credit she has done as well as she has and would have been naïve to expect her to win every single caucus or primary.

 
Squiz no one said she was doomed. My question last late summer was what would stop her free fall. It was an open question. I think three things happened: Biden didn't get in, Sanders did the ole on the email issue, and Sanders couldn't make the leap of momentum from Iowa & NH into the South & especially Nevada. I explicitly hinged what I said on Biden getting in, the polling backed that at the time. Hillary's the Grateful Dead of politicians, she has just survived but her music is nothing special. So the DNC kept all mainstream competition out, Biden stayed out, now she gets Trump, she will win by default with the negated vote. It will look like a mandate but it won't be one. 
:hot:

OK, now you've gone too far. Criticize Hillary all you want, but don't you go there on the Dead. 

 
Against Trump?  I should hope the #### so.
That's why I said her unfavorability doesn't matter.  The general against Trump is a cake walk and in 2020 she'll be an incumbent President with the support of women, Hispanics, and blacks behind her.

 
She has been subjected to non-stop character assassination on Benghazi and the emails for about two years. It is to her credit she has done as well as she has and would have been naïve to expect her to win every single caucus or primary.
She lost 17 contests.  

 
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You're missing the point.  Under no circumstances should she have lost a single caucus or primary.  Not against Bernie.
Not sure this is true. After the Wall Street crash, and the Occupy Wall Street movement, someone with Bernie's viewpoints was going to result in a committed, passionate movement. Most people supposed it would be Elizabeth Warren, but when she bowed out Bernie became the voice for the anti-corporate left. 

If Hillary had never run for office it likely would have been Biden vs. Sanders, and I suspect Bernie would have been just as successful in such a case. 

 
That's why I said her unfavorability doesn't matter.  The general against Trump is a cake walk and in 2020 she'll be an incumbent President with the support of women, Hispanics, and blacks behind her.
Oh.  I didn't realize you were on the list of folks who've lost their mind.  Added.

 
Cobalt, I actually share your concerns about Hillary's unpopularity. But even so your prediction that she will lose to Trump seems off to me. The numbers, state by state, demographic by demographic, simply don't indicate that a Trump victory is at all likely. It's not like a couple of states would have to flip. A LOT would have to flip. 

 
Man, you and Tim are in the midst of just a fabulous delusion.  
Yes, I was so delusional that I kept predicting she would win the nomination while Sinn Fein and Saints kept saying that people found her completely unlikable and that she couldn't recover from such historically low unfavorables and essentially it was all over before Iowa.

 
Yes, I was so delusional that I kept predicting she would win the nomination while Sinn Fein and Saints kept saying that people found her completely unlikable and that she couldn't recover from such historically low unfavorables and essentially it was all over before Iowa.
To be accurate, Saints did predict that Hillary would win the nomination and the Presidency. 

Sinn Fein, on the other hand, confidently predicted she would win neither. 

 
Cobalt, I actually share your concerns about Hillary's unpopularity. But even so your prediction that she will lose to Trump seems off to me. The numbers, state by state, demographic by demographic, simply don't indicate that a Trump victory is at all likely. It's not like a couple of states would have to flip. A LOT would have to flip. 
My concern is 50% substantive, 50% stylistic.  Remember, this is a beauty contest when all is said and done.  And, Hillary comes across awkwardly bad on the stump...when Trump starts attacking her, she's going to get rattled.  It's a bad look for her.  

A lot has flipped.  Look at how negatively she is viewed now compared to a year ago.  Trump has to work quickly, but I'm not ruling anything out with that guy, and I can't rule out that Hillary will struggle, just as she has against Bernie.

 
Yes, I was so delusional that I kept predicting she would win the nomination while Sinn Fein and Saints kept saying that people found her completely unlikable and that she couldn't recover from such historically low unfavorables and essentially it was all over before Iowa.
I assumed they were talking about the general, not the democratic primary.  I could be wrong.  FTR, I never thought she'd lose to Bernie.  I also never expected she'd lose as many states as she did.

Working in her favor are Trump's negatives.  Like I said, I hope those remain stable or worsen.  If so, she should be fine.  But, to watch her struggle in this round is a major red flag.  

 
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:hot:

OK, now you've gone too far. Criticize Hillary all you want, but don't you go there on the Dead. 
Hey I took the day off to go see Michael McDonald unite with Steely Dan at the Fest, give me a little musical credit here, but since you stood up for me a second ago I'll gladly defer to you on musical matters. 

 
She has been subjected to non-stop character assassination on Benghazi and the emails for about two years. It is to her credit she has done as well as she has and would have been naïve to expect her to win every single caucus or primary.
Character assassination. :lol:

More like character suicide. No one to blame but herself. Stop making excuses for her. She's plenty adept at doing that for herself.

 
Hey I took the day off to go see Michael McDonald unite with Steely Dan at the Fest, give me a little musical credit here, but since you stood up for me a second ago I'll gladly defer to you on musical matters. 
Criticizing the Grateful Dead and thinking that going to see Michael McDonald & Steely Dan at Jazz Fast is helping your musical cred is not a good look for you my friend.  Especially considering the other options you had with Grace Potter & Government Mule playing at the same time.

http://youtu.be/l7Vo_t7zbeQ

 
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I'm not a trump or Hillary guy, but how do Hillary folks justify their votes? She might be the most politician politician ever. 

 
Criticizing the Grateful Dead and thinking that going to see Michael McDonald & Steely Dan at Jazz Fast is helping your musical cred is not a good look for you my friend.  Especially considering the other options you had with Grace Potter & Government Mule playing at the same time.

http://youtu.be/l7Vo_t7zbeQ
Ha. Ok I'll stop with the musical metaphors. :bag: . I did catch Mule last year so I can say that.

 
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Was at a media industry event this week...  Smallish with one of the top industry consultants moderating a discussion.  Topic turned to how brilliant Trump is at owning the news cycle in a virtuous cycle starting and ending in social media.  Once he initiates with Hillary and given the many issues that Bernie wouldn't touch, I don't disagree with the challenges of any GOP candidate (especially Trump), but I do think that by late Summer, Democrats are finally going to understand why they should have fielded a better candidate...  If she doesn't get indicted first.

I think Obama and the DOJ will most likely rig the system to protect her...  But by the time she is (probably) elected, she will be so damaged and wildly unpopular that the impeachment discussions will begin day one, and no one will work with her.

 
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Was at a media industry event this week...  Smallish with one of the top industry consultants moderating a discussion.  Topic turned to how brilliant Trump is at owning the news cycle in a virtuous cycle starting and ending in social media.  Once he initiates with Hillary and given the many issues that Bernie wouldn't touch, I don't disagree with the challenges of any GOP candidate (especially Trump), but I do think that by late Summer, Democrats are finally going to understand why they should have fielded a better candidate...  If she doesn't get indicted first.

I think Obama and the DOJ will most likely rig the system to protect her...  But by the time she is (probably) elected, she will be so damaged and wildly unpopular that the impeachment discussions will begin day one, and no one will work with her.
My god, you're right.  WHAT WERE WE THINKING?!?!??!?!?!!??!

 
Character assassination. :lol:

More like character suicide. No one to blame but herself. Stop making excuses for her. She's plenty adept at doing that for herself.
Hillary has definitely made mistakes. In that way, she has certainly contributed to her own headwinds.

Of course you liberals who buy into the Rove talking points and negative narrative aren't helping either. 

 
Comey repeats almost word for word what he said a couple weeks ago:



 



Apr 21 2016, 2:25 pm ET




FBI Director: Democratic Convention Not a Deadline in Clinton Email Investigation

FBI Director James Comey says the forthcoming Democratic National Convention does not represent a deadline for finishing the investigation of Hillary Clinton's emails.

Asked about the case today at a security conference in London, he said, "Somebody asked me if the Democratic National Convention is a hard stop or a key date for you? Are you doing this aimed at that? And I said, no.

"We aspire to do all our investigations in two ways -- well and promptly, especially investigations that are of great interest to the public. We want to do them promptly.

"I get that people care about this investigation, and so we're working very hard to ensure it's well and promptly. But as between the two, if we have to choose, we will do it well. But again we aspire to do it well and promptly."

Comey repeated what he has said before, that he is "personally close to this investigation, because I want to ensure that we have the resources, the people, the technology, and the space to do those things, and to do it in the way I hope we do all our work, which is competently, honestly, and independently. And I'm confident that it's being done that way."
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/fbi-director-democratic-convention-not-deadline-clinton-email-investigation-n560026

- He mostly seems concerned with obtaining and devoting resources to the investigation. Which to me says those things - especially people and technology - are in need.

 
Comey repeats almost word for word what he said a couple weeks ago:



 



http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/fbi-director-democratic-convention-not-deadline-clinton-email-investigation-n560026

- He mostly seems concerned with obtaining and devoting resources to the investigation. Which to me says those things - especially people and technology - are in need.
Highly suggests those 31k emails are in play -- or at the very least he's building a case.

 
Was at a media industry event this week...  Smallish with one of the top industry consultants moderating a discussion.  Topic turned to how brilliant Trump is at owning the news cycle in a virtuous cycle starting and ending in social media.  Once he initiates with Hillary and given the many issues that Bernie wouldn't touch, I don't disagree with the challenges of any GOP candidate (especially Trump), but I do think that by late Summer, Democrats are finally going to understand why they should have fielded a better candidate...  If she doesn't get indicted first.

I think Obama and the DOJ will most likely rig the system to protect her...  But by the time she is (probably) elected, she will be so damaged and wildly unpopular that the impeachment discussions will begin day one, and no one will work with her.
Impeachment for what? 

By the way, the wildly unpopular black man made it through 8 years so I think Hillary will be alright.

 
Comey repeats almost word for word what he said a couple weeks ago:



 



http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/fbi-director-democratic-convention-not-deadline-clinton-email-investigation-n560026

- He mostly seems concerned with obtaining and devoting resources to the investigation. Which to me says those things - especially people and technology - are in need.
At this point, I'm just hoping they make some progress before the general election. After the Dem Convention, if they come out with anything, it will be too late for the nomination.

 
Hillary has definitely made mistakes. In that way, she has certainly contributed to her own headwinds.

Of course you liberals who buy into the Rove talking points and negative narrative aren't helping either. 
I'm no liberal. I'm a pragmatic centrist who wants competent, effective, and efficient governance. I want the petulant children in DC gone. I want adults that will work together for the greater good.

I want the US to extricate itself from unnecessary and damaging wars of regime change, and yet i want us to annihilate terrorists and their sponsors with extreme prejudice.

I want an energy revolution that makes climate change less of a long term issue. I want the US to be at the forefront of revolutionary technology that we can export to the rest of the world.

I want trade agreements that actually work for Americans and not just global conglomerates who are benefiting on a race to the bottom on wages. I also want comprehensive immigration reform that makes sense. We are not going to round up millions of people and break up families. That is not America. We need to get those that are already here to come out of the shadows and become taxpaying productive members of society. We need secure borders and an easier program for guest workers and legal citizenship.

I want massive investments in infrastructure to fix our roads, bridges, and electrical grid. I want high speed internet access for all.

I want to take the best education systems we can find throughout the country and plant these ideas with supportive funding, especially in poor socioeconomic areas so we can help end the cycle of poverty, crime, and hopelessness in these communities.

I want our debt issue to be at the center of all debate. We need structural changes in entitlements. We need to remove the cap on SS taxes. We need to make some hard choices, whether that be gradually increasing the retirement age for benefits or also increasing payroll taxes. I would like to see a small portion of SS funds invested in areas that have the potential for a higher return.

Healthcare must be reformed. I don't know if single payer is the answer or not. If not we probably still need to decouple health insurance from employers. Competition under a heavier hand of price regulation may be the answer. There are no easy fixes here but there has got to be a way to make our system more efficient.

We need to reform our tax code and greatly simplify it. We need to bring corporate profits back home and tax them. Our wealth distribution and it's trend into the hands of a few is not healthy for the economy. I'm open to any and all ideas that will bring us into a healthier balance.

In short i want the best minds in offices of power who are willing to reach across the aisle and think more long term about the citizens of this country and not the connected few. This means completely removing the influence of money in our politics. As i've said before, nothing important gets done until you remove the influence of corrupting entities from the process.

Hillary has a long enough resume to show she has no problem sticking her nose in the money trough. She has been shown to flip flop on issues and do the politically expedient thing time and again. She is the polar opposite of what we need at this critical time. These are not Republican talking points. There is a well documented history here. And her resume is not that impressive other than holding titles of power. Big deal.

 
Grunge, I appreciate your post. And I agree with about half your points. I have several important disagreements with what you wrote. 

But in terms of what you wrote about the energy revolution, infrastructure investment, and education reform we are on the same page. And I honestly believe Hillary Clinton is as well, and will be the best hope America has to bring these things about. 

 
Ethically, Obama has been the antithesis of the Clintons.
No small thing, he worked to push through health care.  He got it done.  Whether you think it's phenomenal, a good start, or the worst thing ever, there's no denying the fact that he got results.  Hillary, on the other hand...

 
Grunge, I appreciate your post. And I agree with about half your points. I have several important disagreements with what you wrote. 

But in terms of what you wrote about the energy revolution, infrastructure investment, and education reform we are on the same page. And I honestly believe Hillary Clinton is as well, and will be the best hope America has to bring these things about. 
Even if Hillary only cares about Hillary then that means she going to do whatever it takes to get re-elected and she can't do that without sticking to the Democratic platform.  Also, if she's so self-interested she'll want to be leave her legacy as a great President.  It's surprising that after watching the way Bill governed people are so concerned about Hillary. 

 
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