The Commish
Footballguy
The reasons why she stepped down would be epic from her supporters. It'd be worth the price of admission.
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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
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I think the other interesting aspect about this whole investigation - it feels she is being treated differently based on who she is. We all know the saying that the Feds could indict a ham sandwich. But in this case, it feels like they have to prove their case to conviction before bothering with an indictment - a much lower burden to bear.
The typical FBI target is not so fortunate.
(To be fair, the feds have a very high conviction rate overall because they do tend to limit the cases they take on to those they are likely to win)
The typical FBI target is not so fortunate.
(To be fair, the feds have a very high conviction rate overall because they do tend to limit the cases they take on to those they are likely to win)
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Yes, if Hillary and Trump are the only candidates with a chance to win, I'd vote for Hillary even if the indictment included all sorts of bad stuff. As IK mentioned, my hope would be a resignation/impeachment with Hillary's VP taking over.
And I can't go along with anyone arguing that a Republican congress would work with Hillary, but only if she's not indicted. That's crazy talk.
And I can't go along with anyone arguing that a Republican congress would work with Hillary, but only if she's not indicted. That's crazy talk.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Killary said she knew about the other SoSs and their staffs' email practices. Was that already public knowledge before she set up her private server?How do you think the conversation went with that assistant about whether or not they needed an Inspector General for oversight?
"I don't see why?"
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Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Many Democrats won't vote for the Clinton crime family even though they don't openly admit it.
Poppa
Footballguy
My assumption is she won't be indicted because she is Hillary ####### Clinton.
I have no idea if the Justice Department thinks they can get a conviction. That is just the first step in the process. (I am skipping the investigation, because I think there are facts to support an indictment (and I can even prove intentional conduct)). If Justice thinks they have a case where they can convict - it will bump all the way up to Lynch, and she and Obama will meet to discuss. Assuming it has made it this far, then the next step will be Obama (presumably - but maybe someone in Justice) laying out the case to Hillary and her attorneys. Obama will tell her that he can make it go away, but only if she steps aside as the Democratic nominee - for the greater good of the country.
Clinton will be apoplectic and Secret Service men may get involved. At that stage its up to Clinton - she will not go away easily - she has planned her entire life around this moment, and a simple indictment will not stand in the way of her destiny. She stood down in 2008, with the promise that the decks would be cleared for her in 2016. So, standing down now will not be an easy decision - particularly if it comes with an admission of any kind of wrong-doing.
This may come down to a colorful ruse, where Clinton steps aside for health reasons. And later, Obama issues a pardon for anything she has, or might have related to the email server.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
You never answered the question I posed a couple of time above.
What do you think the FBI has been doing for the last 9 months or so? How long should it take to determine Clinton did nothing wrong? I mean, you and @squistion seem pretty certain she did nothing legally wrong - how long should it take the FBI to reach that same conclusion. You guys reached that decision in what, 5 minutes?
Just seems like there is more to this to keep the FBI engaged for such a long time.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I love how you guys just assume that Hillary won't be indicted because she's Hillary, the system is corrupt, etc. How convenient that is.
Most normal, non-conspiratorial people will conclude that if Hillary is not indicted, it will be because she doesn't deserve to be, since she did nothing seriously wrong. That will certainly be my own conclusion. But will the anti-Hillary crowd in this thread ever accept that? Don't hold your breath...
Most normal, non-conspiratorial people will conclude that if Hillary is not indicted, it will be because she doesn't deserve to be, since she did nothing seriously wrong. That will certainly be my own conclusion. But will the anti-Hillary crowd in this thread ever accept that? Don't hold your breath...
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
For someone that supposedly spends hours upon hours studying politics, you know absolutely nothing about how DC works.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
If Hillary is not indicted and there is no resignations from senior FBI officials protesting that the DOJ overrided their recommendation to indict, I will believe there wasn't a case to do so.
G
Guest
Guest
IF, I repeat IF, she is not indicted and some time goes by and it is apparent that the FBI did not recommend it, then I will hold my nose and vote for her.
timschochet
Footballguy
Not really no. "I expected more from you". That's awful.
Incidentally, Adam Schiff has really impressed me as one of he smartest dudes in Congress. Really knows his stuff.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I think it's fair to assume the workup is thorough and will leave few stones unturned, save for those details that people won't answer or lie about under oath. I think it's within the realm of possibility they find nothing beyond the OIG report, but at this point I think that's highly unlikely.
Since the OIG report, this whole thing looks even worse than imagined, especially given Hillary's lies and the refusal to cooperate.
timschochet
Footballguy
Link to where I said that?
I have no idea if the FBI has enough evidence to convict. I am certain they have enough evidence to indict - much lower standard. I also know they, and more particularly the Justice Department, understand the ramification of an indictment of a Presidential nominee. Nobody wants to be seen as unnecessarily influencing an election - so I understand why they want to assure themselves that this is either very serious and/or they have enough evidence to convict on a felony charge.
Assuming they get to that threshold - it is still is a political hot potato. For better or worse, it is a former First Lady, Senator, and SOS, in addition to current presidential candidate. I have no problem if a semi-serious charge is "swept under the rug" assuming that Clinton walks away as part of the deal. Nixon was pardoned for worse - and that was the right move. Clinton will be punished enough via her lost opportunity, and public shame.
Now, if the FBI is onto anything deeper here - such as influence peddling through the Clinton Foundation, then I think there might not be a deal, and she would have to fight that in court. But I have not seen anything to suggest that is coming, and frankly I would be surprised if the Clintons were dumb enough to get caught.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Sinn Fein maybe you didn't say it, but several people here have implied or said directly that Obama and the Justice Department will prevent any kind of indictment- meaning the system is corrupt.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
It is corrupt. Whether it's corrupt in this instance remains to be seen. But the rules concerning emails and classified information is pretty clear and it's pretty clear what Hillary did. The only debate is whether one agrees with the rules but she clearly broke them and by definition broke the law. Anyone with access to Top Secret information knows this.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
It's absolutely fair to say that against "one of the smartest dudes in Congress" if he wants to keep bringing up the Colin Powell comparison, because that has been thoroughly debunked by numerous sources AND the OIG report.
That makes me think he really isn't "one of the smartest dudes in Congress" at all.
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squistion
Footballguy
Hillary is always in a lose/lose situation with this crowd no matter what the outcome.
Indicted - "See we were right all along!"
Not indicted - "She is guilty, but the system is corrupt!"
I think they might do it - but that does make it corrupt. Much like Nixon was pardoned, that would be an appropriate path to take here. Yes its unfair, and yes privilege has its advantages, and it goes against my Bernie anti-establishment rant - but if Clinton were forced out, for the good of the country, then I think there is nothing to be gained by an indictment and trial.
BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
Hillary is in a lose situation because a lot of people see through her BS and lying....and this just added a big load of gasoline on that fire.Hillary is always in a lose/lose situation with this crowd no matter what the outcome.
Indicted - "See we were right all along!"
Not indicted - "She is guilty, but the system is corrupt!"
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Mister CIA
Footballguy
My only assumption is that there are a few billion $$$ hanging in the balance for public enemy #1, Ollie Garky.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
State Department investigator on watch list at Clinton Foundation.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MattFinnFNC/status/736939112595230720
https://mobile.twitter.com/MattFinnFNC/status/736939112595230720
spreagle
Footballguy
If Hillary gets off the hook then 1) anyone in prison for less than what Hillary did should be let out of prison 2) anyone who lost their job for less than what Hillary did should get their job back, then promoted 3) anyone who paid a big fine for less than what Hillary did should be reimbused, plus interest.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Witkowich sure enough is a Special Investigator at State, not only that.... also a former Captain with the NYPD.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-witkowich-40a6545
Interesting list of skills he has there too.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-witkowich-40a6545
Interesting list of skills he has there too.
timschochet
Footballguy
I like old Ollie. He's hardly enemy #1. He doesn't come around much, but when he does it's good for us IMO.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
You've made the same point several times. It's silly; it's also false because I stated that while I believed in the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy I made the point that it was a poor term because it's NOT a conspiracy but wide open: since the early 1990s there has been a concerted effort by conservative groups to "get" the Clintons- it's never been hidden.
And Mr Ham among several others has asserted numerous conspiracies regarding the Clintons so that part isn't true either.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Tim the VRWC is by definition a conspiracy. It's Hillary's own term. You've defended and you've argued its existence repeatedly. The fact it was manufactured out of Hillary's lab just makes it all the worse.
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BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
Tim is not having a good day here. He should step away and enjoy the rest of his day with his family. Hopefully that will make him happy.
identikit
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Agreed...it's not as if they are as pure as the driven snow. She's the best GOP option they've seen since Bush was in office. They'll work with her on a good amount of military and foreign policy positions ignoring us here stateside.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
That was ugly. Schiff's BS right there just shows why so many hate politicians; talking out of his ###, twisting points, dodging, etc.
Wallace is great - he attacks anyone who doesn't answer his questions; follow-ups and persistence are great traits.
BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
Normally, you're called a racist, bigot, etc. if you disagree with a Democrat. I guess this one is a bit tougher considering this isn't the Republicans doing the investigating.
The Commish
Footballguy
No...she was wrong. People in prison for doing what she's done can tell you that. There's a difference between guilty of a crime and "wrong" or "seriously wrong" as you say. That's the technicality you will be able to hang your hats on as the Clintons are masters of going right up to that line without crossing it. It's a gift. It's just a gift that's only useful to the Clintons which is problematic when you're supposedly a public servant.
Though I am curious....we know that people have gone to jail for far less than what she's done, so if she avoids jail, what will be the reason if not "because she's Hillary Clinton"? You've already bent over backwards to say she should be treated differently than everyone else because of who she is and what her position in the government was so why a response like this when you pretty much acknowledged she should be treated this way?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
She's in that position because she intentionally mishandled classified information and lied about it.Hillary is always in a lose/lose situation with this crowd no matter what the outcome.
Indicted - "See we were right all along!"
Not indicted - "She is guilty, but the system is corrupt!"
G
Guest
Guest
Referring to evidence becomes a conspiracy when you don't like the evidence.
- Bill did ride on the Lolita Express 26 times, and ditched secret service
- The lead prosecutor for the Vince Foster case did resign citing evidence tampering
- A secret service man did testify that Clinton's Chief of Staff took two handfuls of files out of Foster's office the night he died
- An Independent economic journal created a model that concluded the odds of Hillary getting the return from her cattle futures trades that she reported was 31 trillion to one
I also linked to articles referencing direct allegations made by either former Bill Clinton lovers or rape allegers.
To you, these are all conspiracies. Fine.
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G
Guest
Guest
Oooof. What I really like is the rare refusal of a journalist to take BS as an a answer. The Powell defense has been debunked.
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