cobalt_27
Footballguy
You don't get it. Nothing is worse than Trump. Biput we can and must can do better than a corrupt opponent. We must do better than voting in a crook over a crazy person. Get Hillary out now.
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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
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dparker713
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes stated that Hillary was worse than Trump, and then he implied that the 30,000 deleted emails made her so. That was the focus of my question.
timschochet
Footballguy
I join Americans in praying for the victims of the attack in Orlando, their families and the first responders who did everything they could to save lives.
This was an act of terror. Law enforcement and intelligence agencies are hard at work, and we will learn more in the hours and days ahead. For now, we can say for certain that we need to redouble our efforts to defend our country from threats at home and abroad. That means defeating international terror groups, working with allies and partners to go after them wherever they are, countering their attempts to recruit people here and everywhere, and hardening our defenses at home. It also means refusing to be intimidated and staying true to our values.
This was also an act of hate. The gunman attacked an LGBT nightclub during Pride Month. To the LGBT community: please know that you have millions of allies across our country. I am one of them. We will keep fighting for your right to live freely, openly and without fear. Hate has absolutely no place in America.
Finally, we need to keep guns like the ones used last night out of the hands of terrorists or other violent criminals. This is the deadliest mass shooting in the history of the United States and it reminds us once more that weapons of war have no place on our streets.
This is a time to stand together and resolve to do everything we can to defend our communities and country.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
lol I really am. There are lots of things that could make her worse than Trump - but probably not to you. You think Trump is a bigot and that's pretty much the worst thing in your pov.
Let me try another tack, A girl in our office recently quit and claimed sexual harassment by someone on my team. This guy was a super polite, shy, nerdy, Canadian software engineer. Married, beautiful wife, cute kids - last person you would imagine engaging in harassment or hostile work environment. Since he was on my team I was interviewed by HR in their investigation. The girl wasn't a software developer but in her role she worked with him from time to time on projects. She recently relocated cubes near him in the north side of the building. At issue was a note he left on her desk, with a pastry, that said "Welcome to the north side" and a smiley face. I had to take a photo of the pastry and the note and report whether I thought that was his handwriting in case he denied writing it. Which he did not. The rest of my involvement in the investigation was several separate interviews on whether I had ever observed him engaging in inappropriate behavior or being away from his desk for long periods of time or hearing any complaints from any other females. No, on all counts, and he admitted to writing the note. He's a good worker so I hated the thought of him getting fired over the note, but if there turned out to be more notes or other stuff, I was resigned to follow whatever HR recommended. So several weeks later I get called into HR for their findings. It turns out these two have been having a months long office romance - "physical in nature". She wanted to end it and her employment, and burn him on the way out. HR doesn't recommend anything serious because she conceded in her interviews it was mutual and consenting. So all this time I'm wracking my brain over the meaning of a pastry and the investigation turns up a months long affair. That's what it was all about - the pastry was nothing.
So we're all gong back and forth on every bit of minutia that is known - the pastries - but it's the unknown stuff that was attempted to be hidden from everyone that's the thing.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
Hillary is awful, but Trump is worse. Problem is Hillary is a train wreck of a candidate, and this has been known by anyone and everyone who honestly follows what's going on. She is coming off her best political week ever, simultaneous to Trump's worst week ever. She better not have any more bad weeks in her, or else this tyrant is going to be the next POTUS. Get her out now before we lose everything.
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GrandpaRox
Footballguy
It will be a train wreck no matter who wins. We all lose. Just another step down for the good old USA.
Anyone who is excited by this election should really check their morals at the door.
This will be the nastiest election cycle ever. Every scandal, Hillary's, Bill's, the Clinton Foundation's, campaign contributions and everything else will be thrown at her and it will all be deserving.
I doubt that she will make a full four years, good grief are we screwed. She won't have the cover Obama has had for eight years, people will desert her in droves. Hopefully she will choose a vice president that can actually lead the nation, it will be our best chance to survive this mess we will get to see first hand.
Anyone who is excited by this election should really check their morals at the door.
This will be the nastiest election cycle ever. Every scandal, Hillary's, Bill's, the Clinton Foundation's, campaign contributions and everything else will be thrown at her and it will all be deserving.
I doubt that she will make a full four years, good grief are we screwed. She won't have the cover Obama has had for eight years, people will desert her in droves. Hopefully she will choose a vice president that can actually lead the nation, it will be our best chance to survive this mess we will get to see first hand.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Trump is a loudmouth and we know that. Hillary is corrupt, evil, disgusting, vile, rotten to the core, and we don't yet know all the rottenness. That said, if the deleted emails turn up nothing, she's got my vote
dparker713
Footballguy
dparker713
Footballguy
Sorry, but the sky isn't falling. Would I like there to be a significantly larger lead for whomever is opposing Trump? Of course. But Hillary is ahead in the polls and there's no reason to believe she can't beat Trump given how the electoral college lays out. If she's indicted, that's a bridge to cross if it comes.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Agreed. The sky is not currently falling. But, Biden/Kerry/Warren swooping in to save us all from Trump and Hills would be the best outcome. They'd lap him by a country mile, and we'd have exceptional experience and integrity in the WH, the latter being something the Clintons cannot bring to the table.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Corruption, bribery, quid-pro-quos and outright criminality (IIRC). More specifically the kind of corruption, bribery, quid-pro-quos and outright criminality that the FBI won't pursue despite e-mail evidence.
:
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Putting a CIA assets life in danger because of the classified information someone got due to her negligence. Trumps never killed anyone. It's mind boggling how much a few of you overlook her arrogance towards the law and the rules.
The Commish
Footballguy
"could be"? That list would go on forever with that sort of speculation...probably not a very good question to ask.
The Commish
Footballguy
The "anyone but Trump" guys beg to differ. If you ask them, we're in the middle of the apocalypse.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Well, we can add outing a CIA agent to the list of crimes that the FBI/DOJ will ignore once the final report comes out I guess.SaintsInDome2006 said:
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Right I know they can ignore all of them. Heck they could have ignored them in February, why wait this long to do all this ignoring? Why bother with immunity deals and interviews and whatever else they're doing?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
You don't have to reveal the source by name. You can reveal information and give someone else enough information to know the source. People have been killed this way. I know of information where I was told directly that if it went public one specific person would be killed within an hour. He was the ONLY source for that information. You don't screw around with that stuff and then pretend to care about people or the public
I get a lot of data is over classified but that's no excuse for Hillary blatantly disregarding the law to create her own server. She belongs in jail.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
My point is that everything you guys are saying is a crime. At least as I understand it (again, please set me straight if not). So in the absence of an indictment of Clinton, you have to believe:
a) Clinton didn't commit a crime
b) Clinton did everything the fever swamp is accusing her of, but the FBI/DOJ failed to prosecute any of it despite holding 'written' evidence and the involvement of dozens of agents.
You already see people lining up for option B. "The FIX IS IN". It's stupid.
Maybe she did commit crimes. Based on the last 20 years of overblown nothing, I strongly doubt it -- we have seen this movie over and over again after all. But maybe she did. If she's charged I'll accept that I'm wrong.
But to believe that there's SUPER OBVIOUS evidence she committed crimes, the FBI has that evidence, and she doesn't get charged is the same mouth-breathing goofballery we've heard in an unbroken thread from Vince Foster to Benghazi.
a) Clinton didn't commit a crime
b) Clinton did everything the fever swamp is accusing her of, but the FBI/DOJ failed to prosecute any of it despite holding 'written' evidence and the involvement of dozens of agents.
You already see people lining up for option B. "The FIX IS IN". It's stupid.
Maybe she did commit crimes. Based on the last 20 years of overblown nothing, I strongly doubt it -- we have seen this movie over and over again after all. But maybe she did. If she's charged I'll accept that I'm wrong.
But to believe that there's SUPER OBVIOUS evidence she committed crimes, the FBI has that evidence, and she doesn't get charged is the same mouth-breathing goofballery we've heard in an unbroken thread from Vince Foster to Benghazi.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Just having the server with classified stuff on it is a crime. I'm sure someone else will be the fall guy though. Whether she's charged or not she has clearly demonstrated a lack of judgment to be President. All the specifics about whether she actually gets indicted or not here is just mental gymnastics.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
No argument from me about her judgment if that's what you believe.
But you're going to have to show your work on the first part. And if no one's charged re: the server, will you accept that maybe your understanding of the law/issues is incomplete?
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The Commish
Footballguy
I'm not sure this is a fair characterization of all the discussion that's gone on in this thread. There have been several positions taken which include the two you have here. There's a good number of us that don't hold "indictment" as the standard for being wrong (not full on gulity of a crime) and displaying incredibly poor judgment. Of course, those assertions are generally passed over because they really aren't in dispute at this point. A good many of us take exception with her actions because they are so mindbogglingly stupid, not because they break any laws. We've argued that laws shouldn't be necessary for such obvious actions, but when those discussions come up, the standard is quickly pushed to "indictment" because God forbid we acknowledge the ignorance of these sorts of decisions.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I worked in that environment. You intentionally mishandle classified information and its a crime. We were reminded about it often. Does she have power to weasel out of it that you or I wouldn't have? Quite possibly.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I don't want to put words in your mouth -- are you saying you believe that your understanding of the law/issues/evidence is on par with the FBI's and that if she isn't indicted the only possible explanation is that she 'weaseled out' of charges?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I'm saying you can't mishandle classify information. If you do intentionally its a crime. If you do unintentionally it could be a crime. She intentionally set up a server and put classified information on it. Are you suggesting that's not true? Yes I'm suggesting she has the political clout to have a fall guy and get herself out of this. That #### happens all the time in DC. Not sure where you're going with this. Support her if you want it changes nothing about her judgment or character.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
In other words, you believe you understand these issues and the evidence well enough to be 100% sure she committed a crime, that the ONLY possible explanation for a lack of indictment is that she used her clout to get out of it?
trogg78
Footballguy
This place is so great. It's the only place where a person who sells medical devices knows more about medicine than a doctor. A person who hired an attorney knows more about law than an attorney. A person who worked in an "environment" that handles classified information knows more than the FBI. FBG's never fails to impress me.
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Footballguy
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
Any indictment news today?
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Footballguy
It's possible that in the future Trump University could result in some criminal charges, but the current case is civil and thereby has no such criminal charges have been brought against him.
timschochet
Footballguy
Hillary and Trump will be giving heavily promoted speeches today, she in Cleveland, he in New Hampshire. Both are supposed to touch on terrorism, Orlando, and their differences with each other.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Do you think OJ murdered Ron and Nicole? If so you know more than the judge and jury that listened to all the evidence right?
trogg78
Footballguy
G
Guest
Guest
At least three disturbing things from this Time article:
http://www.newsweek.com/clinton-hawkishness-revealed-her-emails-469351
1. The ease and brazenness with which Hillary and Co. blatantly lie - in this case the now apparent falsehood that the emails pertaining to drones were merely forwarded newspaper articles
2. The casualness with which she dispensed death (I am very much against the institutional drone program, for as much as it sets a terrible precedent for use of technology, and because of the terror it instills on the populations where it is deployed and where innocent victims are common)
3. The recklessness in hosting sensitive beyond top secret data on a private and vulnerable setup - she damn well knew better (these conversations went well beyond her, and existed outside of normal protocols - but what differed with her is she hosted these communications on a server she at the least knew had been repeatedly attacked)
http://www.newsweek.com/clinton-hawkishness-revealed-her-emails-469351
1. The ease and brazenness with which Hillary and Co. blatantly lie - in this case the now apparent falsehood that the emails pertaining to drones were merely forwarded newspaper articles
2. The casualness with which she dispensed death (I am very much against the institutional drone program, for as much as it sets a terrible precedent for use of technology, and because of the terror it instills on the populations where it is deployed and where innocent victims are common)
3. The recklessness in hosting sensitive beyond top secret data on a private and vulnerable setup - she damn well knew better (these conversations went well beyond her, and existed outside of normal protocols - but what differed with her is she hosted these communications on a server she at the least knew had been repeatedly attacked)
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Thanks for the BREAKING NEWS update, Tim. What would we ever do without all these provocative hot taeks?
At least this is better than when you spew crap that make you sound like Brock Turner's father.
squistion
Footballguy
Yes, how dare Tim post news about Hillary in the official Hillary Clinton thread, what could he be thinking?
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Not really. Tim has become increasingly frustrated by the fact that most of the discussion in here revolves around Clinton's role in various scandals. He wants everyone to talk about how awesome she is, what a great week she supposedly had, praise her, etc. This has been a relatively new tact for Tim where he tries to change the subject, albeit awkwardly and without a segue, and it always falls flat and never takes off. He's like that guy at a dinner function who doesn't know how to fit in when everyone's talking sports, so he butts in to mention he's reading a fascinating book about cement mixing techniques. Nobody cares because it's irrelevant to the current discussion, and everyone goes back to talking about the Pens, the Warriors-Cavs series, and OTAs.
cstu
Footballguy
Drones are the most effective cost-effective and safest way to combat terrorists and result in a lower loss of civilian lives than boots on the ground.
State would need a good reason to object to a CIA drone strike.
whoknew
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
After the whining about not being on topic with the media in this thread, I decided to go backwards and requote the first thing I felt was "interesting" that Tim had brought up in an effort to help him out. Oddly enough, Tim has done little to combat what he was whining about, but this post is the first interesting tidbit I came across.
So the question is, Tim, why do you think it's in Hillary's best interest to support the FBI being able to have so much power via their "list" that they can control the citizens who are not allowed to buy guns?
The Commish
Footballguy
If she continues the "overthrow and replace" method of the last 3-4 decades, it's not going to be good. We know that much. The ISIS like groups are only going to get stronger over time, so hopefully she learned her lesson with the poor choices made while she was SoS.
squistion
Footballguy
Joy ReidVerified account @JoyAnnReid 9m9 minutes ago Brooklyn, NY
Strong speech by Hillary Clinton, eschewing partisanship in fighting radicalization, reinforcing shared values, taking on the gun lobby.
Joy ReidVerified account @JoyAnnReid 9m9 minutes ago Brooklyn, NY
The contrast between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump couldn't be clearer. On every issue.
Strong speech by Hillary Clinton, eschewing partisanship in fighting radicalization, reinforcing shared values, taking on the gun lobby.
Joy ReidVerified account
The contrast between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump couldn't be clearer. On every issue.
cstu
Footballguy
ISIS is getting weaker every day and the Middle East is closer to democracy than it ever has been. We should continue to support democratic movements.
Sand
Footballguy
We don't know yet. What we do know is that there are a lot of people working on it, which means there is a huge amount of information to compile and organize. We know that they're looking at both the email item and the Clinton Foundation favoritism angle. I can see how the FBI would be struggling to cope with all the information turned over thus far (plus perhaps the other half of the trove that wasn't quite deleted, most of which will be CF items).
If the FBI says all is ok I think this all goes away in a puff of wind. Where the sticking point it is with the DOJ - this is an office under the current POTUS that has become horribly politicized. Shamefully so. If the DOJ refuses to prosecute or at least appoint a special prosecutor despite an FBI recommendation, then the #### will hit the fan. Because then the fix is in.
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