Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (6 Viewers)

[timschochet]

Really? You've said all along you believed her and didn't think she was lying. And now Comey has confirmed she was lying all along and that makes you feel "better and better"?

I don't feel as good as I did before the Tuesday announcement, certainly. I think Hillary has deliberately misled about some of this. 

But I also don't believe, as I did Tuesday morning, that it's as bad as I thought it was. Corey's admission that Hillary might not have recognized what was classified, plus the Politifact article which discusses the differences in opinion about what is and what isn't classified, all of that made me feel better. 

Mostly though, my feeling from the very beginning of this was confirmed: most of the criticism against Hillary has come from tech types, both here and elsewhere. But the job of Secretary of State, like the job of President, is not a techie job. I don't WANT Hillary Clinton, or the President, to be concerned with what is and what is not classified and where to store it. Just as I also don't want her dealing with security at embassies. These duties are beneath her, IMO. I want her trying to solve international disputes, fight terrorism, make trade deals, negotiate. I want her solving the BIG PICTURE. That's why I've always felt this entire issue of emails is irrelevant to her qualifications to be President. 

 

[The Commish]

If she had sent the exact same emails over her .gov account it would have been just as much of a violation of protocol.  

But they are not equivalent violations. The addition of the server and the blackberry, the lack of physical security and software security, plus putting it all on the open net ramps it up considerably.

Don't need to go down this path...in the end, it is the same rule broken, which is why he's gone to "protocol" here rather than level of security that he started with.  Nothing but a poor fishing expedition.

 

[dparker713]

It doesn't have to be one monolithic event. Her defense against being prosecuted is she's careless and borderline incompetent. If it's established she's not, then she has no defense and being prosecuted is the result. 

This is like me surmising that you're incompetent at your job, because you're incompetent at posting in this thread.  The two might be vaguely associated because the inability to think logically transfers across disciplines, but it's a pretty big stretch.

 

[The Commish]

I still claim VRWC dammit. They didn't create this mess, but as usual they have revved it up and exaggerated its seriousness far beyond they would do with any body else. The Bush Administration destroyed millions of emails and not a peep. (Just as they also lost many lives in embassies and there weren't any investigations, much less dozens). 

Yeah the way this case has blown up is absolute proof of the vast right wing conspiracy which has always sought to destroy the Clintons. (Note- I use the phrase because it's in common parlance but it is NOT really a conspiracy by the common definition of that word- it would be more apt to call it a vast right wing movement). 

Comey told you everything you need to know Tim.  It also happens to be EXACTLY what I told you at the beginning of this whole thing.  I KNOW you won't listen to me despite the track record in this arena.  But if you're not going to listen to Comey, then you make your motives, intentions and approach clear.

 

[cobalt_27]

I don't feel as good as I did before the Tuesday announcement, certainly. I think Hillary has deliberately misled about some of this. 

But I also don't believe, as I did Tuesday morning, that it's as bad as I thought it was. Corey's admission that Hillary might not have recognized what was classified, plus the Politifact article which discusses the differences in opinion about what is and what isn't classified, all of that made me feel better. 

Mostly though, my feeling from the very beginning of this was confirmed: most of the criticism against Hillary has come from tech types, both here and elsewhere. But the job of Secretary of State, like the job of President, is not a techie job. I don't WANT Hillary Clinton, or the President, to be concerned with what is and what is not classified and where to store it. Just as I also don't want her dealing with security at embassies. These duties are beneath her, IMO. I want her trying to solve international disputes, fight terrorism, make trade deals, negotiate. I want her solving the BIG PICTURE. That's why I've always felt this entire issue of emails is irrelevant to her qualifications to be President. 

Ugh, Tim.  That's awful.  

It is critical for everyone involved in protecting this country to be very concerned with--and competent in dealing with--our country's secrets.  That's unequivocally a matter of life and death.

 

[dparker713]

Don't need to go down this path...in the end, it is the same rule broken, which is why he's gone to "protocol" here rather than level of security that he started with.  Nothing but a poor fishing expedition.

I didn't switch for any particular reason.  Either the classified emails were transmitted on a secure network or they weren't.  You can't get a little bit pregnant. 

 

[timschochet]

Comey told you everything you need to know Tim.  It also happens to be EXACTLY what I told you at the beginning of this whole thing.  I KNOW you won't listen to me despite the track record in this arena.  But if you're not going to listen to Comey, then you make your motives, intentions and approach clear.

I don't believe that Comey said anything that contradicts my post that you responded to. 

 

[Politician Spock]

This is like me surmising that you're incompetent at your job, because you're incompetent at posting in this thread.  The two might be vaguely associated because the inability to think logically transfers across disciplines, but it's a pretty big stretch.

Setting up a server to avoid FOIA establishes she understands where email can't exist in order to keep it safe from FOIA. There is no vague association to knowing where email can't exist in order to keep it safe from unclassified access.  

 

[NutterButter]

• Comey said three emails had “portion markings” on them indicating that they were classified, but they were not properly marked and therefore could have been missed by Clinton. He said the emails were marked as classified with the letter “C” in the body of the email.
  
• Kirby said the State Department believes that at least two of the emails were mistakenly marked as confidential. He could not speak to the third email, saying the department didn’t have “all of the records and documents that the FBI used in their investigation.”
  

Now we're down to 1 classified email.  We need to find that email.

Here's another good exchange from the hearing

Cartwright, July 7: So, if Secretary Clinton really were an expert at what’s classified and what’s not classified and we’re following the manual, the absence of a header would tell her immediately that those three documents were not classified. Am I correct in that?

Comey: That would be a reasonable inference.

That hearing was a great move by the gop.  This is exciting.   

 

[timschochet]

Ugh, Tim.  That's awful.  

It is critical for everyone involved in protecting this country to be very concerned with--and competent in dealing with--our country's secrets.  That's unequivocally a matter of life and death.

No it isn't.

People in the role of President, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, etc, should have assistants handling that stuff. The instruction should be: make sure everything goes in the proper file, the proper email, etc. That's the assistant's job. I don't want Hillary to waste her time even thinking about it for one moment. 

 

[badmojo1006]

Ugh, Tim.  That's awful.  

It is critical for everyone involved in protecting this country to be very concerned with--and competent in dealing with--our country's secrets.  That's unequivocally a matter of life and death.

What Tim is trying to say, I think, is that the President shouldn't have to worry about which server an email goes on or how classified emails are created. They should not be worried about the minutiae. 

 

[The Commish]

Comey told you everything you need to know Tim.  It also happens to be EXACTLY what I told you at the beginning of this whole thing.  I KNOW you won't listen to me despite the track record in this arena.  But if you're not going to listen to Comey, then you make your motives, intentions and approach clear.

I don't believe that Comey said anything that contradicts my post that you responded to. 

I know you don't Tim....that's not his (or my) problem.

 

[timschochet]

I know you don't Tim....that's not his (or my) problem.

Not mine either. 

 

[timschochet]

What Tim is trying to say, I think, is that the President shouldn't have to worry about which server an email goes on or how classified emails are created. They should not be worried about the minutiae. 

Exactly. 

 

[Politician Spock]

What Tim is trying to say, I think, is that the President shouldn't have to worry about which server an email goes on or how classified emails are created. They should not be worried about the minutiae. 

Then they shouldn't be making their own servers. 

 

[badmojo1006]

Then they should be making their own servers. 

You want the President of the United States to be building their own server? I don't follow you.

 

[The Commish]

What Tim is trying to say, I think, is that the President shouldn't have to worry about which server an email goes on or how classified emails are created. They should not be worried about the minutiae. 

This is correct, and she didn't have to worry...but she ignored the standard and went her own route on her own. 

 

[Politician Spock]

You want the President of the United States to be building their own server? I don't follow you.

Typo. I meant shouldn't. 

 

[The Commish]

I didn't switch for any particular reason.  Either the classified emails were transmitted on a secure network or they weren't.  You can't get a little bit pregnant. 

of course you didn't.  We may disagree, but you are a pretty smart guy.  I think you saw the error of your ways.  Even in this comment, we both know there is more to "secure" than the networks communications travel on.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

 

WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 5h5 hours ago
Busted: 23035 cables sent to Clinton using "(C)" (classified) marking in her 1st year alone https://wikileaks.org/plusd/?qproject[]=cg&q=&qfdestination=Secretary+of+State&qfoclass=CONFIDENTIAL&qtfrom=2009-01-10&qsort=tdesc#result …

Senor Jamon had a very interesting article comparing cable traffic to email traffic on Hillary's server. Might need to dig that up.

 

[squistion]

No it isn't.

People in the role of President, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, etc, should have assistants handling that stuff. The instruction should be: make sure everything goes in the proper file, the proper email, etc. That's the assistant's job. I don't want Hillary to waste her time even thinking about it for one moment. 

Why we want any President dealing with that crap? Even Trump?

 

[badmojo1006]

Typo. I meant shouldn't. 

I agree with you. The President doesn't have time to be dealing with that minutiae.

 

[NutterButter]

Trump doesn't do emails.  What's the rules regarding tweets?  Might have to revisit those just in case by some miracle he gets elected.

 

[timschochet]

Why we want any President dealing with that crap? Even Trump?

I don't think anybody does. Which is why I continue to believe that this whole thing is a partisan witchhunt, part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Almost all of the people who believe that this is a "crime" also don't want Hillary Clinton to be President. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

One useful approach in determining what emails might be missing is to overlay the Clinton emails with State Department cables that were released via WikiLeaks. As one might expect, the volume of cables and the volume of emails about specific events tend to rise and fall together.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/hillary-clinton-missing-emails-secretary-state-department-personal-server-investigation-fbi-214016

- H/T Ham

This is Peter Schweizer. I don't care. The basic premise makes sense.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't think anybody does. Which is why I continue to believe that this whole thing is a partisan witchhunt, part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Almost all of the people who believe that this is a "crime" also don't want Hillary Clinton to be President. 

Tim you're the sole conspiracist in this thread.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

I don't feel as good as I did before the Tuesday announcement, certainly. I think Hillary has deliberately misled about some of this. 

But I also don't believe, as I did Tuesday morning, that it's as bad as I thought it was. Corey's admission that Hillary might not have recognized what was classified, plus the Politifact article which discusses the differences in opinion about what is and what isn't classified, all of that made me feel better. 

Mostly though, my feeling from the very beginning of this was confirmed: most of the criticism against Hillary has come from tech types, both here and elsewhere. But the job of Secretary of State, like the job of President, is not a techie job. I don't WANT Hillary Clinton, or the President, to be concerned with what is and what is not classified and where to store it. Just as I also don't want her dealing with security at embassies. These duties are beneath her, IMO. I want her trying to solve international disputes, fight terrorism, make trade deals, negotiate. I want her solving the BIG PICTURE. That's why I've always felt this entire issue of emails is irrelevant to her qualifications to be President. 

Exactly.  If I were SoS, I would make sure the State Department IT guys setup something that met my needs.  Clearly Hillary is not very good at problem solving.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

No it isn't.

People in the role of President, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, etc, should have assistants handling that stuff. The instruction should be: make sure everything goes in the proper file, the proper email, etc. That's the assistant's job. I don't want Hillary to waste her time even thinking about it for one moment. 

Why we want any President dealing with that crap? Even Trump?

Condi Rice didn't use private email. HTH.

 

[badmojo1006]

Tim you're the sole conspiracist in this thread.

No, there are quite a few...But they are on your side of the political aisle.

 

[Politician Spock]

Almost all of the people who believe that this is a "crime" also don't want Hillary Clinton to be President. 

Almost all? Who would believe that this is a crime and want her to be president?

 

[cobalt_27]

What Tim is trying to say, I think, is that the President shouldn't have to worry about which server an email goes on or how classified emails are created. They should not be worried about the minutiae. 

While I agree their time should not be spent occupied by minutiae of tasks, they have to have policies and best practices in place such that preserves the integrity of sensitive communication.  There is no denying Hillary failed that test, and if we took Tim's cavalier approach, others would as well.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Condi Rice didn't use private email. HTH.

Yes, Hillary got herself in this mess.  A smarter person would not be in the same boat.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

No, there are quite a few...But they are on your side of the political aisle.

Maybe I should back that one up. Tim was the only conspiracist before Bill's mad dash onto the AG's plane and Comey's presser where he spent 9/10s building a case and then the last 1/10th saying nm. Somehow the numbers have grown.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Yes, Hillary got herself in this mess.  A smarter person would not be in the same boat.

Take away the claims of criminality and what you have is DUMB.

 

[cobalt_27]

No it isn't.

People in the role of President, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, etc, should have assistants handling that stuff. The instruction should be: make sure everything goes in the proper file, the proper email, etc. That's the assistant's job. I don't want Hillary to waste her time even thinking about it for one moment. 

But, she has to be in direct communications with others, as well, including her assistants.  If she commits to best practices, she won't have to think about it.  And, if she does have to think about it, tough ####.  She has to be knowledgable and protective of confidential material.  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

No it isn't.

People in the role of President, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, etc, should have assistants handling that stuff. The instruction should be: make sure everything goes in the proper file, the proper email, etc. That's the assistant's job. I don't want Hillary to waste her time even thinking about it for one moment. 

"Pls Print"

 

[timschochet]

Maybe I should back that one up. Tim was the only conspiracist before Bill's mad dash onto the AG's plane and Comey's presser where he spent 9/10s building a case and then the last 1/10th saying nm. Somehow the numbers have grown.

Saints, for the umpteenth time, I don't believe in conspiracies. I only use that phrase because it's in common parlance. But a better term is "vast right wing movement." It's NOT a conspiracy. So please stop already! 

 

[Rohn Jambo]

No classified information should ever be emailed to a .gov email address.   The "1000" people on these exchanges were all in violation of this policy.  Hillary's setup and its vulnerabilities makes this worst, but the violation is using non secure email to begin with and not recognizing and reporting it.  It would have been a major finding if classified information was somehow electronically sent to Hillary from a "secured" system as, at least by design this is supposed to be impossible.   

Notes:  The 1000 comes from the question asked of Comey how many of those 1000 were subject of a security referral, I believe he responded than none of the hundreds were besides Hillary and her inner circle.

"Secured" vs "non secured" is based on how the government defines the networks.  It doesn't mean that non-secured is absent any normal  network security.

Yes, there is a separate network for classified information.  So, this mean it must be easy for a lot of people to "leak" the classified stuff.  Not good.   Why is Congress not concerned about this?

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Saints, for the umpteenth time, I don't believe in conspiracies. I only use that phrase because it's in common parlance. But a better term is "vast right wing movement." It's NOT a conspiracy. So please stop already! 

"I still claim VRWC dammit."

Then quit writing crap like above!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Saints, for the umpteenth time, I don't believe in conspiracies. I only use that phrase because it's in common parlance. But a better term is "vast right wing movement." It's NOT a conspiracy. So please stop already! 

The phrase means "conspiracy". Stop using it if you don't believe it.

Btw it's not aimed at her critics - it is used to keep her own supporters in line. You're proving it.

 

[NutterButter]

Yes, there is a separate network for classified information.  So, this mean it must be easy for a lot of people to "leak" the classified stuff.  Not good.   Why is Congress not concerned about this?

Are you seriously asking that question about our congress?  This stuff is only important to people when there's political gains to be had.    

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Yes, there is a separate network for classified information.  So, this mean it must be easy for a lot of people to "leak" the classified stuff.  Not good.   Why is Congress not concerned about this?

The dirty secret is Congress may have its own offenders. The GN law is designed to punish reckless government actors. Guess who would enforce it?

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Saints, for the umpteenth time, I don't believe in conspiracies. I only use that phrase because it's in common parlance. But a better term is "vast right wing movement." It's NOT a conspiracy. So please stop already! 

There are a lot of Independents and Democrats who don't like Hillary.  Maybe "non-Hildo movement" works better for those people.

 

[dparker713]

Setting up a server to avoid FOIA establishes she understands where email can't exist in order to keep it safe from FOIA. There is no vague association to knowing where email can't exist in order to keep it safe from unclassified access.  

Her instructing others to set up a private server for nonclassified emails to avoid FOIA access neither establishes what you claim, nor would it in any way relate to willfully mishandling classified emails.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

The dirty secret is Congress may have its own offenders. The GN law is designed to punish reckless government actors. Guess who would enforce it?

So Comey just covered their butts?

 

[Politician Spock]

Her instructing others to set up a private server for nonclassified emails to avoid FOIA access neither establishes what you claim, nor would it in any way relate to willfully mishandling classified emails.

So it was her employees fault. Good luck with that. 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

So, this mean it must be easy for a lot of people to "leak" the classified stuff.  Not good.   Why is Congress not concerned about this?

Probably because Congress routinely leaks classified information.  

 

[Politician Spock]

Saints, for the umpteenth time, I don't believe in conspiracies. 

Still in denial of the fact that the NSA conspired. So sad. 

 

[NutterButter]

Probably because Congress routinely leaks classified information.  

Seriously?   I thought I'm supposed to be upset about all of this b/c classified information was leaked and now you're telling me it happens all the time.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So Comey just covered their butts?

Look. I believe what he says about 793, I'm sure there are next to no prosecutions on it. But yeah, how many people are spilling classified info stupidly? Like I've said many times Hillary's system to me is an extremely bad case of negligence. Intuitively it is impossible to imagine something MORE negligent ...

... and I invite anyone to actually brainstorm and imagine a hypothetical which could be more "negligent", I can't do it...

...the only way I can understand reading "intent" into a statute that says "negligence" when there is already another statute that says "willful intent" is people just don't want to enforce it.

Basically some Congress a while back had the idealistic notion that government would regulate itself and protect the nation's security and secrets to the absolute best extent possible. It looks like some don't want to do that.

Here's an example - Mills lost her blackberry in the Phillipines. So basically her email which was full of classified stuff via Hillary was just lying around some airport. Or bar. Or hotel. Or cab. Now what if a federal employee or agent just said they lost their blackberry. What if they sold it to a spy (not Mills, this is a hypothetical). The rule should be that if you do something THAT stupid and endanger our security you should pay a price. No questions asked, you don't do it and we presume you did it with bad intent. I think that was the point of the law. Intent was presumed when people acted negligently, basically like the civil law concept of strict liability. Your lawnmower breaks and a blade flies off and hurts some child? We don't care what the reason or "intent" was you the manufacturers are at fault. You are not allowed to screw up that badly. No excuses. That's how I think 793f was intended.