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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (6 Viewers)

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There were goofy people who swore they had inside info that charges would be brought, and other goofy people who swore they had inside info that charges would not be brought. No matter what the decision was, it was guaranteed to line up with somebody's prediction. Therefore, the fact that his decision lined up with somebody's prediction is not evidence, in any sense, that it had been leaked.
I'm not saying it's evidence. If I were, I'd by positing a conclusion based on it. I'm doing neither. I'm discussing possibility.

And not possibility similar to saying that the flying spaghetti monster exists. But a possibility that explains unexplainable things, like Bill's goofy behavior, a behavior of which makes no sense without evidence for a conspiracy as well. Without evidence, sometimes we have to conclude people's goofy behaviors are just dumb (or in the case of Hillary "careless). But what if the goofy behavior isn't just dumb or careless? Then lack of evidence is unfortunate. 

 
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I find it kind of surprising that people freak out so much about the fact the Hillary is dishonest. First of all, she's a politician, so no #### she's dishonest; the vast majority of them are, on both sides. Second, looking back at the history of the office, it kind of seems irrelevant to job performance. Jimmy Carter is likely one of the most genuinely good human beings ever to sit in the Oval Office, and was a disaster as President. The Reagan administration was the most scandal / corruption filled in history, and Reagan was a very good President. Hillary's husband is a complete slimy POS, and was likewise a solid President. Plenty of examples that cut both ways. Sure, if all else is equal, we'd all rather have a completely honest and transparent person running the country -- but good luck with that. And, of course, all else is very rarely equal. It's certainly not this year given Cheeto Jesus. It's completely unsurprising that the usual group of derpy right-wing Fox-bots are regurgitating the manufactured outrage; that's what they do. What is surprising is the number of folks who can actually think for themselves who have joined this bandwagon. Gotta say, I don't really get it.
Some of it probably has to do with the pro-Bernie folks piling on as well.   They're a pretty vocal and passionate bunch.     

 
Has she commented on the Dallas police officer shootings?  It doesn't appear as if she has said anything on Twitter today... Where is she?

 
Has she commented on the Dallas police officer shootings?  It doesn't appear as if she has said anything on Twitter today... Where is she?
She posted something short on FB -- "I mourn for the officers shot while doing their sacred duty to protect peaceful protesters, for their families, and all who serve with them."

Neither candidate is using this as campaign leverage, I'm both surprised and happy about it.

 
My father, who is 80 years old, is a lifelong Democrat who is convinced that Hillary is corrupt. He will not vote for her. (Though here in California it makes no difference who he or I will vote for- Hillary leads by 30 points!) He believes that the Foundation will prove her corruption. 

 
I'm sure it's been addressed, but Hillary flat out lied to Congress when she testified, but Coney is saying that wasn't part of his investigation.

Why wasn't it? Isn't that intent?

How could the FBI be doing a complete investigation and not taken note of her lies to Congress in regards to this investigation?

 
Comey's answer has understandably gotten very little play given subsequent events, but I found it interesting that he obliquely suggested there might be additional investigations happening when asked about the Foundation.  Obviously any additional investigations could be on any number of subjects but his dodge was specifically tied to the Q about the Foundation.

No secret that I think it's 100% safe to dismiss anything about Hillary that comes out of the Republican House, but something criminal re: the Foundation and originated by the FBI would be very different IMO.

 
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I'm sure it's been addressed, but Hillary flat out lied to Congress when she testified, but Coney is saying that wasn't part of his investigation.

Why wasn't it? Isn't that intent?

How could the FBI be doing a complete investigation and not taken note of her lies to Congress in regards to this investigation?
The FBI doesn't watch stuff on TV and then decide to investigate it.

They investigate when they get a referral from another branch of government. In this case, they got a referral from the Inspector General to investigate security matters. Nobody gave them a referral to investigate whether her statements to Congress were perjured. (Congressman Chaffetz indicated yesterday that such a referral will be forthcoming.) And no, I don't think lying to Congress establishes criminal intent to mishandle classified info, so the inquiries aren't really related.

 
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The FBI doesn't watch stuff on TV and then decide to investigate it.

They investigate when they get a referral from another branch of government. In this case, they got a referral from the Inspector General to investigate security matters. Nobody gave them a referral to investigate whether her statements to Congress were perjured. (Congressman Chaffetz indicated yesterday that such a referral would be forthcoming.)
So, should have Congress provided the FBI with a referral and that would have indicated to them to look at this? If it's taking until now for that to happen, that seems ridiculous - both the process that you have to alert the FBI of her answers to Congress and the fact that Congress was so slow to provide that considering how long the investigation took.

Don't her statements regarding the matter they are investigating (security matters) make a difference, especially if some of them are in direct opposition to the FBI's own findings?

Considering the FBI says she didn't have intent here (but did have wrong-doing), to me, providing false/incorrect answers to members of Congress could imply intent.

 
I mentioned up earlier that the State Department was the entity that actually classified those emails and they did it after the fact (after they reviewed them later).  IOW, the originator who sent them to Clinton did not classify them either and they weren't sent on the proper network.  So it isn't just Clinton who is at fault here, imo.  She just happened to be the SoS who should have known better to discuss certain things on a nonsecure network.  Again, lackadaisical culture.  It wasn't just her.
If the information originated at State, went past Hillary's eyes, and Hillary didn't classify then it wasn't classified!   Only the president can overrule this.  And Congress, if they dared might try to impeach -but they didn't. 

Being classified later for the purpose of FOIA requests, especially with respect to Foreign Government Information which doesn't necessarily fit into our classification system doesn't offer any insight into Hillary's judgment calls.  Comey and the FBI didn't seem to even consider these for the investigation beyond confirming that no other agency "owned" the information.   The only items that mattered per Comey's remarks were the 55 or so pieces of information in 113 or so emails that was "owned" by other agencies.  My problem with these is that all of the ones which have been reported on are problematic being classified.  

For example the North Korea information you mentioned was supposedly sent to Hillary from a private citizen who was not working for or with the government or a government contractor which creates issues claiming that Hillary forwarding the information back into the government systems represents Hillary removing it from proper custody.  There is also the supposed news paper article discussions - both of the CIA drone program and that brother of some president who was a CIA informant (and eventually assassinated).  Then there were supposedly the emails about potential CIA drone strikes which don't actually mention the program, or the target, or the time, or anything meaningful at all.   Lastly there were names of people who were exposed as intelligence officer which would be terrible - especially if it was the FOIA request that did the exposing.  So I know you are security conscious but as of now from what has been shared, or more appropriately speculated about  those 55 pieces of information there is nothing to be upset about - except possibly the FOIA security review process itself putting lives and/or careers in danger.

5 FAM 482.6 Foreign Government Information

(CT:IM-117; 06-16-2011)

a. For the Department and the Foreign Service, the most important category of national security information is foreign government information (FGI). FGI is defined in E.O. 13526 as:

(1) Information provided to the United States by a foreign government or an international organization of governments or any element thereof with the expectation that the information, its source, or both are to be held in confidence; or

(2) Information produced by the U.S. under an international arrangement requiring that the information or the arrangement be held in confidence.

b. FGI may be included in diplomatic notes, aide memoires, non-papers, memcons, telegrams, emails, or other documents reporting conversations with foreign government officials. When in the form of a diplomatic note or other written communication from a foreign government official, it may well not bear any foreign government security classification. It may, nevertheless, require protection and, therefore, require a U.S. security classification to appropriately protect the information. For how FGI should be identified and marked, see 5 FAM 482.10 paragraph f, below.

c. As provided in section 1.1. (d) of E.O. 13526, the unauthorized disclosure of FGI is presumed to cause damage to the national security.

d. Recipients of FGI must provide a degree of protection for that information at least equivalent to that required by the foreign government or the international organization that provided the information. When adequate to achieve the required protection, FGI may be handled under standards that are less restrictive than the safeguarding standards that ordinarily apply to U.S. Confidential information, including modified handling and transmission and allowing access to individuals with a need-to-know who have not otherwise been cleared for access to classified information or executed an approved nondisclosure agreement. Questions about this aspect of E.O. 13526 should be addressed to DS/SI/IS or the Office of the Legal Adviser (L).

e. Foreign government information provided pursuant to an existing treaty, agreement, bilateral exchange, or other process may require protection in addition to that established for U.S. classified information. For example, the release or disclosure of foreign government information to any third-country entity may require the prior consent of the originating government.

 
Comey's answer has understandably gotten very little play given subsequent events, but I found it interesting that he obliquely suggested there might be additional investigations happening when asked about the Foundation.  Obviously any additional investigations could be on any number of subjects but his dodge was specifically tied to the Q about the Foundation.

No secret that I think it's 100% safe to dismiss anything about Hillary that comes out of the Republican House, but something criminal re: the Foundation and originated by the FBI would be very different IMO.
That's a stock standard answer.  

 
So, should have Congress provided the FBI with a referral and that would have indicated to them to look at this? If it's taking until now for that to happen, that seems ridiculous - both the process that you have to alert the FBI of her answers to Congress and the fact that Congress was so slow to provide that considering how long the investigation took.

Don't her statements regarding the matter they are investigating (security matters) make a difference, especially if some of them are in direct opposition to the FBI's own findings?

Considering the FBI says she didn't have intent here (but did have wrong-doing), to me, providing false/incorrect answers to members of Congress could imply intent.
We'd need a ton more FBI agents if they were supposed to investigate the testimony of everyone that testifies before Congress.  

 
Plenty of examples that cut both ways. Sure, if all else is equal, we'd all rather have a completely honest and transparent person running the country
I think you are wrong about this.   We get dishonest politicians because "we the people" prefer those that will tell us what we want to hear than those that will tell the truth.

 
Considering the FBI says she didn't have intent here (but did have wrong-doing), to me, providing false/incorrect answers to members of Congress could imply intent.
Intent to do what? I don't have the relevant statutory language memorized like some people around here might, but the required intent had to do with mishandling classified information. What lie might she have told Congress that would help establish that intent?

 
Comey's answer has understandably gotten very little play given subsequent events, but I found it interesting that he obliquely suggested there might be additional investigations happening when asked about the Foundation.  Obviously any additional investigations could be on any number of subjects but his dodge was specifically tied to the Q about the Foundation.

No secret that I think it's 100% safe to dismiss anything about Hillary that comes out of the Republican House, but something criminal re: the Foundation and originated by the FBI would be very different IMO.
That's a stock standard answer.
Yes, he would have given the same answer if somebody had asked him if they are investigating whether Hillary orchestrated the Orlando shooting. When he says "I won't confirm or deny whether we're investigating x," it is not evidence for or against the idea that they are investigating x.

 
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Plenty of examples that cut both ways. Sure, if all else is equal, we'd all rather have a completely honest and transparent person running the country
I think you are wrong about this.   We get dishonest politicians because "we the people" prefer those that will tell us what we want to hear than those that will tell the truth.
I don't think you guys are disagreeing with each other, necessarily; you're just pointing out that people are inconsistent.

"Would you prefer an honest President, or a dishonest President?" The first one.

"Would you prefer a Presidential candidate who promises to cut taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget, or a Presidential candidate who won't make such a promise?" The first one.

 
Comey testified that he didn't think Clinton instructed her lawyers to delete the emails or was even aware that they would do so. That decision, at least, may not have come from Clinton herself. 
Does anyone have a Comey/Congress transcript at this point? Could be useful.

There is something very very sketchy about the entire deletion episode. I don't know why, but it was important. Hillary said it was the employee's duty to select what was work related and what was not and that she did the selection. False. She delegated that to her attorneys. Her aides - public employees - were converted after their employment to private attorneys. Thereafter civilly they could not be questioned about their methodology, their timing, their mindset or what they considered public record. Mills was allowed to walk out of her FBI interview when the subject was broached.  Heather Samuelson was at the last interview. She was also separately interviewed by the FBI. This is like a lot of it, if Comey wanted to make a case he could have. He showed extreme deference to all of this portion of the investigation to Hillary, and it may not be Comey's fauit this happened, it may have been by virtue of prior agreement with DOJ.

 
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Comey testified that he didn't think Clinton instructed her lawyers to delete the emails or was even aware that they would do so. That decision, at least, may not have come from Clinton herself. 
Does anyone have a Comey/Congress transcript at this point? Could be useful.
It's at about the 53:35 mark here. (You may want to start a bit before that for context.)

 
Folks attorneys are not going to destroy data without the client's permission.
It would be pretty unusual. Comey knows this as well as we do, though, so knowing this doesn't give us an informational advantage over him in evaluating whether it was done in this case. He still has the informational advantage over us.

 
It would be pretty unusual. Comey knows this as well as we do, though, so knowing this doesn't give us an informational advantage over him in evaluating whether it was done in this case. He still has the informational advantage over us.
Unusual? It would be malpractice.

I'll look at the video when I can. And I've deferred to Comey. But IMO the time for informational advantage is over, these were public acts about public records and public duties pertaining to our next president and the time has arrived for all the details to be public.

 
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I'll look at the video when I can. And I've deferred to Comey. But IMO the time for informational advantage is over, these were public acts about public records and public duties and the time has arrived for all the details to be public.
Maybe Congress could hold hearings and have Comey testify about this stuff... ;)

 
I'll take a report with absolutely nothing held back.
I don't think you mean that literally. Some of the content of the emails was classified. You wouldn't want him to disclose what that content was, right? There's plenty of other stuff it would be inappropriate to make public as well -- stuff that touches on other pending or potential investigations, stuff that's illegal to disclose, yadda yadda.

I think Comey seemed as about forthright as could be expected in answering Congress's questions. I wouldn't characterize his testimony as inappropriately holding stuff back.

 
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I don't think you mean that literally. Some of the content of the emails was classified. You wouldn't want him to disclose what that content was, right? There's plenty of other stuff it would be inappropriate to make public as well -- stuff that touches on other pending or potential investigations, stuff that's illegal to disclose, yadda yadda.

I think Comey seemed as about forthright as could be expected in answering Congress's questions. I wouldn't characterize his testimony as inappropriately holding stuff back.
I think Comey's been great and really I feel for the guy.

I'm not talking about the classified emails, those were, are and will stay that way. I'm not saying Comey held back from his testimony either.

You brought up the prospect of future testimony. I think that is a vain exercise though I do think yesterday was unexpectedly helpful.

Comey should write a report, a white paper, and cover every single issue. Every bit of testimony, every fact found, every unclassified document should be made public (aside from Hillary's truly private emails, if any were found).

 
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Comey should write a report, a white paper, and cover every single issue. Every bit of testimony, every fact found, every unclassified document should be made public (aside from Hillary's truly private emails, if any were found).
He certainly shouldn't do this of his own accord. Maybe Congress will ask him to do it, but I think it would be a misuse of government resources at this point. Let's not Benghazi this thing to death.

 
He certainly shouldn't do this of his own accord. Maybe Congress will ask him to do it, but I think it would be a misuse of government resources at this point. Let's not Benghazi this thing to death.
Yeah well the FBI isn't Congress. It's a report, like the IG report, it's what government does and would be in the interest of transparency.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Comey testified that he didn't think Clinton instructed her lawyers to delete the emails or was even aware that they would do so. That decision, at least, may not have come from Clinton herself. (Also, because of the comma, I'm not sure whether NorvilleBarnes is saying that the server was set up to avoid FOIA requests -- as opposed to the server and the stonewalling being separate issues. Comey didn't specifically investigate whether the server was set up to avoid FOIA requests rather than for personal convenience, but he did say that he didn't have sufficient evidence to conclude that Hillary's explanation to the FBI about it was untruthful.)

One thing that I think Comey dispelled very persuasively was the conspiracy theory about the timing of Bill Clinton's meeting with Lynch, Comey's public statement, and Obama's campaigning with Hillary. I always wonder how some people can be so certain about stuff that doesn't seem obvious at all to me -- what am I missing? It turns out that I wasn't missing anything on that one: those events were not coordinated. Nobody outside the FBI knew that Comey was going to announce anything on Tuesday until right before it happened. At the time that Bill Clinton met with Lynch, and at the time that Obama decided to campaign with Hillary, neither Bill nor Hillary nor Lynch nor Obama had any idea whether the FBI had reached a decision about whether to recommend bringing charges, what the decision was or would be, when it would be announced, or even whether it would be publicly announced. Comey was adamant that none of that was leaked to anyone outside of the FBI.
I was stating them as separate decisions btw.

I don't have a problem with the timing of Bill and Lynch's meeting and I don't think they impacted Comey or the FBI. The only problem I really had with it was that - again - we have an example of secrecy and deception up front, and then when caught, lying and covering up. And Comey (or Bill or Hillary or Lynch) didn't really address any of that. 

 
Clinton: " I am going to be talking to white people.  I think we're the ones that have to start listening to legitimate cries that are coming from our Africa  American fellow citizens."

What a race baiting POS. 

 
Clinton: " I am going to be talking to white people.  I think we're the ones that have to start listening to legitimate cries that are coming from our Africa  American fellow citizens."

What a race baiting POS. 
Par for the course for her.  She can't help herself.  

 
Clinton: " I am going to be talking to white people.  I think we're the ones that have to start listening to legitimate cries that are coming from our Africa  American fellow citizens."

What a race baiting POS. 
Race baiting? I don't think so. Could have been worse, she might have called Mexicans rapists.

 
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