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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (2 Viewers)

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[scooter] said:
"promiscuous 13 year old girls can't be raped unless quaaludes were involved".
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Sigh. Of course they can, but as I wrote I thought it was consensual and I thought he didn't know her age. 

You want to condemn me, go ahead. I wrote it and I can't take it back. But I was misinformed about what happened. 

 
HellToupee said:
I would like Tim to address this . Really would . I like jabbing him from time to time especially when he gets all sanctimonious . I agree on not being able to unread. 

This is really disappointing 
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It is.

He might again.  He has in the past.  Sadly, the two I've seen were totally incoherent.  Unfortunately, I think his tone deafness with regard to defending a rapist while at the same time maligning the victim is far removed from the tone deafness he applies to other scenarios when he has a narrative to defend.  Mostly, the tact he seems to take is to minimize misbehavior of those he respects.  See Polanski.  See Nixon.  See Clinton(s).  Even the latest wikileaks scandal he responds with a :yawn:  .  He's "bored" by anything that might undermine his world view.

 
cobalt_27 said:
It is.

He might again.  He has in the past.  Sadly, the two I've seen were totally incoherent.  Unfortunately, I think his tone deafness with regard to defending a rapist while at the same time maligning the victim is far removed from the tone deafness he applies to other scenarios when he has a narrative to defend.  Mostly, the tact he seems to take is to minimize misbehavior of those he respects.  See Polanski.  See Nixon.  See Clinton(s).  Even the latest wikileaks scandal he responds with a :yawn:  .  He's "bored" by anything that might undermine his world view.
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No offense Cobalt, but as much as I regret writing what I did about Polanski, I really don't think there's any connection between that and my opinions of Nixon and Hillary Clinton. You're talking about different issues entirely. 

If I believed that Hillary Clinton was guilty of a serious crime like murder or rape or anything like that, I could NEVER support her. But the charges against her with regard to the email scandal, even if I accept the worst of them as true (which as you know I don't) do not for me rise to that level. Nor does this current story. I'm rather appalled by the analogy, in fact.

With respect to Richard Nixon, he committed impeachable crimes, and deserved to be removed from office. Prior to those crimes, I think he was a very good President for the most part. 

 
http://truthfeed.com/hacked-emails-show-democrats-consider-hispanics-as-nothing-more-than-a-target-consumer/12909/

In yet another insulting and damning email released by Wikileaks, as part of their series called “Hillary Leaks,” where they’re releasing hacked emails from approximately seven high-ranking DNC officials, the Democrats continue with their callous portrayal of Hispanics.

 
In the email below, Democrats refer to Hispanics like mindless target consumers rather than a group of people with diverse needs and a depth of knowledge on issues that affect their lives.
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Juxtatarot said:
It's funny when conservatives become the politically correct police.
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It's funny when people deflect stuff so they don't have to address it. 

I for one am eager for assanges next round of dirt which is claims is easily enough to secure an indictment (but won't). Will be interesting to see if a clear outline of criminal activity will be enough to move the election the points needed to cost Hillary the election, however. 

 
Daywalker said:
Did others in Hillary's position or the previous Bush admin use private email servers?
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No. Powell used a private email address but did not have his own server for some of his emails (due to tech reasons back then originally Diplomatic corps could not email outside State) that rule changed in 2005 and that was no longer permitted. Rice did use a private email for official emailing at all.

 
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[icon] said:
It's funny when people deflect stuff so they don't have to address it. 
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It's quite common, of course, for businesses to develop various strategies to attract consumers of various demographic groups.  It's not surprising that the DNC would also do that.  

 
 


Capital Journal Verified account ‏@WSJPolitics


Bernie Sanders supporters chant 'Lock her up' in Philadelphia protest against Clinton
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At a lively Sunday march in support of former Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, chants of “lock her up,” “Hillary for Prison” signs and t-shirts and calls for indictment were common among the most ardent supporters of Mr. Sanders, who arrived in Philadelphia to make their voices heard to the delegates attending the Democratic National Convention.
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http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/24/bernie-sanders-supporters-chant-lock-her-up-in-philadelphia-protest-against-clinton/

- Well that's not particularly healthy, now is it.
 
cobalt_27 said:
It is.

He might again.  He has in the past.  Sadly, the two I've seen were totally incoherent.  Unfortunately, I think his tone deafness with regard to defending a rapist while at the same time maligning the victim is far removed from the tone deafness he applies to other scenarios when he has a narrative to defend.  Mostly, the tact he seems to take is to minimize misbehavior of those he respects.  See Polanski.  See Nixon.  See Clinton(s).  Even the latest wikileaks scandal he responds with a :yawn:  .  He's "bored" by anything that might undermine his world view.
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He certainly always has a blindspot where people he likes are above the law

 
Slapdash said:
He certainly always has a blindspot where people he likes are above the law
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Yeah, I finally put him on ignore.  At least through the elections.  He's been intellectually dishonest throughout, and his minimization of the wikileaks issue is the final straw. I can't remember the last time he offered a perspective that wasn't outright plagiarism from Brian Fallon's talking points, so I'm doing myself and everyone else a favor by putting him on ignore.  

 
I don't think timschochet is intellectually dishonest at all.  I think his worldview is "the end always justifies the means", so any belief is both justifiable and necessary, as long as the preferred end goal is furthered.  Similarly, any information that doesn't further the goal can be safely ignored (and referred to as "boring").

 
Rich Conway said:
I don't think timschochet is intellectually dishonest at all.  I think his worldview is "the end always justifies the means", so any belief is both justifiable and necessary, as long as the preferred end goal is furthered.  Similarly, any information that doesn't further the goal can be safely ignored (and referred to as "boring").
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That's fine as a belief.  I find it reprehensible as a "process" guy, myself, but I appreciate those who see the world through another lense.

My problem is that Tim engages in his own brand of propaganda here, which aims at selectively ignoring/minimizing very big issues because he believes that to shed light on those issues, to give them any attention, only serves to hurt Hillary's chances of winning.  So, when truly important developments unfold, he is intellectually dishonest to say they are no big deal.  It was intellectually dishonest to simultaneously ignore the server scandal--to boast that he hadn't looked into the issues--and then say it was no big deal.  While she was not indicted, it was a big ####### deal.  It compromised her message.  She was already viewed as being dishonest, and Comey's rebuke only reinforced that perception of dishonesty...which undoubtedly hurts her, politically.  Tim ignored it, minimized it, said it was no big deal until Comey spoke...then he acknowledged it was a "mistake" to do so.  But, he's going about the same tact here with the wikileaks.  Even after DWS gets he axe, he's still being intellectually dishonest to say this is no big deal.  As others have noted, if this is indeed the product of Russian actors trying to influence an election and the first wave of emails--just the first wave, mind you, there will be more--results in the ouster of the democratic chair on the eve of the democratic convention...it defies all logic, reasonableness, objectivity, intellectual honesty to say this is worthy of a :yawn: . 

In short, I'm sick of Tim's bull####.  He's not only adding nothing to the discussion, he's deliberately trying to obfuscate and minimize.  Not worth the time.

i say all this as someone who agrees with him that Trump is incredibly dangerous and want no part of him getting into the White House.  But, we have to be honest about the discussion when it comes to Trump's opponent.  

 
Rich Conway said:
I don't think timschochet is intellectually dishonest at all.  I think his worldview is "the end always justifies the means", so any belief is both justifiable and necessary, as long as the preferred end goal is furthered.  Similarly, any information that doesn't further the goal can be safely ignored (and referred to as "boring").
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Agreed...it is Alinsky 101...

 
HellToupee said:
This is really bad. Really bad.
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Maybe I missed something, but I don't see this as being the same level as the other stuff. Yesterday's leaks were straight corruption to the core. This just looks like something an ad firm would put out to target consumers.  Its stupid, but I'm assuming most groups figure ways to outreach to different ethnicities. 

As as a side note, are Hispanics that brand loyal?  I've never heard that. 

 
So, now that the candidates have been chosen and they have their VPs, can we talk about polling numbers?  Or should we wait until election day?

 
bigmarc27 said:
Maybe I missed something, but I don't see this as being the same level as the other stuff. Yesterday's leaks were straight corruption to the core. This just looks like something an ad firm would put out to target consumers.  Its stupid, but I'm assuming most groups figure ways to outreach to different ethnicities. 

As as a side note, are Hispanics that brand loyal?  I've never heard that. 
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Not as loyal as some. 

 
I guess there's no point in responding to Cobalt anymore now that he's put me on ignore. I did try to reach out to him last week but oh well. 

I reject the claim that I'm intellectually dishonest. I reject the claim that I believe the end justifies the means. Both of these claims carry with them an assumption of Hillary Clinton's guilt which I have never accepted. 

 
timschochet said:
I guess there's no point in responding to Cobalt anymore now that he's put me on ignore. I did try to reach out to him last week but oh well. 

I reject the claim that I'm intellectually dishonest. I reject the claim that I believe the end justifies the means. Both of these claims carry with them an assumption of Hillary Clinton's guilt which I have never accepted. 
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You are a one of a kind KoolAid drinker. 

 
timschochet said:
I guess there's no point in responding to Cobalt anymore now that he's put me on ignore. I did try to reach out to him last week but oh well. 

I reject the claim that I'm intellectually dishonest. I reject the claim that I believe the end justifies the means. Both of these claims carry with them an assumption of Hillary Clinton's guilt which I have never accepted. 
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Your "end justifies the means" worldview is present in every political discussion, no matter the topic, not just the Clinton ones.  Obamacare and immigration are two easy ones, neither of which has anything to do with Clinton.

 
timschochet said:
You don't need to. 

My misinformation was that I was unaware of the quaaludes; I thought it was a case of consensual sex, and also that Polanski might have been unaware of the girl's age. At worse, I thought it was statutory rape, and while that is a crime worthy of punishment (as I stated) I didn't think it was worthy of lifelong condemnation. 

My position changed when I learned about the drugs. That made it full blown rape, a vile act. The fact that I did not know about the drugs is my own fault; I should have looked it up before I offered my opinion from memory. I have apologized for that quote at least a dozen times; it is the worst thing I've ever written in this forum. But ever since it has been used by certain people here as a cudgel to defeat my opinion on a variety of subjects, which I think is pretty rotten as well. 
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I'm a big fan of you, Tim.  You keep this place hopping.  So I'll do  you a favor:  

It is horrible form to make a distinction between "kinda rape" and "real rape."  Make that distinction in your head, good buddy, but never let it leak out of your mouth or your keyboard fingers.  Another tip:  If you feel compelled to use the term: "Full blown rape" in ANY circumstances, stop what you are doing immediately, because you are walking down a dangerous path.

 
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timschochet said:
I guess there's no point in responding to Cobalt anymore now that he's put me on ignore. I did try to reach out to him last week but oh well. 

I reject the claim that I'm intellectually dishonest. I reject the claim that I believe the end justifies the means. Both of these claims carry with them an assumption of Hillary Clinton's guilt which I have never accepted. 
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for the billionth time...it's not a guilt/innocence lens people are looking at these things through, it's a right/wrong lens.  And you've made clear why you refuse to go that path.  I wouldn't either if I were you.  I suspect that's why you also try to twist people words into something they didn't say as well.

 
Rich Conway said:
timschochet said:
I guess there's no point in responding to Cobalt anymore now that he's put me on ignore. I did try to reach out to him last week but oh well. 

I reject the claim that I'm intellectually dishonest. I reject the claim that I believe the end justifies the means. Both of these claims carry with them an assumption of Hillary Clinton's guilt which I have never accepted. 
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Your "end justifies the means" worldview is present in every political discussion, no matter the topic, not just the Clinton ones.  Obamacare and immigration are two easy ones, neither of which has anything to do with Clinton.
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Don't forget the NSA thread.  That's where I was first introduced.

 
Sweet J said:
I'm a big fan of you, Tim.  You keep this place hopping.  So I'll do  you a favor:  

It is horrible form to make a distinction between "kinda rape" and "real rape."  Make that distinction in your head, good buddy, but never let it leak out of your mouth or your keyboard fingers.  Another tip:  If you feel compelled to you the term: "Full blown rape" in ANY circumstances, stop what you are doing immediately, because you are walking down a dangerous path.
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Thank you. One of the reasons that I have hestitated in the past to try to explain my stupid comments about Polanski was precisely this: that anything further I wrote could get me into a further mess. To be clear, there is NO kind of rape that is ever acceptable, ever justifiable under ANY circumstances. 

 
Rich Conway said:
Your "end justifies the means" worldview is present in every political discussion, no matter the topic, not just the Clinton ones.  Obamacare and immigration are two easy ones, neither of which has anything to do with Clinton.
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I don't believe that's so in either case, but this is not the correct thread to discuss it. 

 
Henry Ford said:
So, now that the candidates have been chosen and they have their VPs, can we talk about polling numbers?  Or should we wait until election day?
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Well we've never really stopped talking about polling numbers in the first place, so talk away.  The numbers out today should scare the hell out of everyone.

However, after one convention and before the other is probably the absolute worst time between the end of the primaries and election day in terms of their value, as I assume you know.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Well we've never really stopped talking about polling numbers in the first place, so talk away.  The numbers out today should scare the hell out of everyone.

However, after one convention and before the other is probably the absolute worst time between the end of the primaries and election day in terms of their value, as I assume you know.
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Yup. hopefully today is Trump's high water mark. If not...

 
TobiasFunke said:
Well we've never really stopped talking about polling numbers in the first place, so talk away.  The numbers out today should scare the hell out of everyone.

However, after one convention and before the other is probably the absolute worst time between the end of the primaries and election day in terms of their value, as I assume you know.
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Alright.  I'll just wait.  Someone let me know when we can consider poll numbers reasonably valid.  Somehow every time I bring them up, it's the absolute worst time in terms of value.

 
Henry Ford said:
Alright.  I'll just wait.  Someone let me know when we can consider poll numbers reasonably valid.  Somehow every time I bring them up, it's the absolute worst time in terms of value.
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I agree with TF on this.  I'd even go so far as to say that within a week of the Convention closing is still premature, as they'd probably reflect an artificial bump in her favor.  I think once we get past the first week of August to establish a good baseline.  

But, clearly, the fact that Trump is in contention is enough to be worried.  A lot of us warned folks that Hillary would struggle.  The killer is--and I didn't anticipate this--it's not even Trump who's done anything to bring her down, it's just years of unforced errors catching up to her.  

 
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Henry Ford said:
Alright.  I'll just wait.  Someone let me know when we can consider poll numbers reasonably valid.  Somehow every time I bring them up, it's the absolute worst time in terms of value.
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They're always informative and worth discussing.  I'm not sure what you mean by "reasonably valid," though.  If you're asking when polling averages would be more useful in terms of predicting the outcome, I'd say they will be much more valuable in two weeks (after any post-convention bump Clinton gets has dissipated) than they have been at any point to date.  From there they'll get a little more predictive and useful as we go.

That doesn't mean the current polls are useless, though. IMO they show two important things: (1) the race actually was tightening prior to the RNC, that wasn't just a temporary post-Comey statement downgrade for Clinton; and more importantly (2) the idea that the chaos of the first three days of the RNC would hurt Trump was wrong so far, he basically held serve and got the bounce you'd expect from a convention. Now it's up to Clinton and the DNC to do the same. I guess the good news for them is that if the RNC is any indication they can #### it up quite a bit and still get the job done with a couple good speeches. 

 
HC: "How's our team behind?!? Why are we losing games? We look awesome on paper, our schedule is super easy. We should be on our way to 15-1."

OC: "Do you think you may have started the wrong quarterback? I mean he's got a lot of starts under his belt but he does have this reputation for throwing more picks than TDs, blowing leads, making dumb decisions....we could have started the journeyman from Vermont, at least the team played for him, we could have brought in free agents..."

HC: "Naaaaahhhhh...."

 
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